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Topic:
Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
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DARTHFINGERZ
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
6/12/05 1:18am
Subject:
Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
- Date Edited:
7/23/07 9:22am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
DarthButt
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Emperor Palpatine totally blew it with turning Luke.
In the PT, Palpatine befriends Anakin, plays off his weaknesses, sides with him against the Jedi, uses deceit, trickey and everything in the books to help turn Anakin to the darkside.
In the end, he finally gets Anakin with a promise to cheat death itself to save his wife.
In RoTJ what did he do with Luke to turn him to the darkside?
Gets him up to his chambers and practically just asks him nicely to join the darkside. LoL...no pitch, no trickery,no bribes...nothing.
Anakin we all seen was already leaning toward the darkside anyway and had all sorts of bad traits that would lead to his downfall.....Luke however was pretty much a true blue, good-guy all the way. If anyone had to be SOLD or tricked towards the darkside it was Luke!
The Emperor to me didn't really SELL the darkside to Luke at all.....it seemed like a half-assed attempt in comparison to the great lengths he took to win over Anakin.
"Fulfill your destiny and take your father's place at my side!"
^ That is a great reason to want Luke - but he should have schemed a bit more or really done something to try to get him. Not just have him fight his father.
I guess the old Sith was slipping in his later years and it cost him his life.
What do you all think?
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PrinceHector
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
6/12/05 1:52am
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
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Well yes he did seem to put in no effort at all. However the cirmcumstances were different. Palps couldn't say "The Jedi are planning to take over the Empire!" could he? 
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Aeneas_Falco
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
6/12/05 3:04am
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
- Date Edited:
6/12/05 3:39am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Aeneas_Falco
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In the prequels he needs Anakin in order to exterminate the Jedi and seize control of the Republic. He even needed Anakin to save his life. He doesn't need Luke in the same way that he needed his father. He was less scheming in the original trilogy because the Jedi Order is a thing of the past, he's the Emperor and except for those planets under rebel occupation, controls most of the galaxy.
In short Palpatine became a victim of his own arrogance. (seems to be the downfall of every Sith Lord if you think about it)
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DARTHFINGERZ
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
6/12/05 4:28am
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
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Yeah I guess.....he just came off as such a great evil plotting genius in the PT I'd love to have seen some of that in the OT.
Maybe GL deciding to wrap everything up in RoTJ instead of going longer may have contribted to this?
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I have the DEATH SENTENCE on twelve SW messageboards.
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Lars_Muul
Registered:
Oct '00
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Date Posted:
6/12/05 4:43am
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
- Date Edited:
6/12/05 4:44am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Lars_Muul
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It may have.
As has been pointed out, Palpatine was not in desperate need of a new apprentice, as he was in ROTS. If Luke wouldn't turn, he would be destroyed and Vader would stay at the Emperor's side. Simple as that!
Of course, Luke would be a greater asset than Vader, so maybe he should've tried harder. We mustn't dismiss the importance of his overconfidence, though.
His overconfidence is his weakness
/LM
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Darth_Ejit
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
6/12/05 4:53am
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
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He had about 13 years to work on Anakin and gain his friendship and trust. Luke only knew him as the Emperor and an enemy. Palpatine was probably far too confident by then as well.
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Chukles38
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
6/12/05 5:06am
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
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also, remember that he didn't ahve to hide this time. At this point, he was well known as a sith and emperor of the empire. If he had come out and said to anakin at the begining, "I'm a sith lord, join me." Then anakin would ahve turned him in.
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DARTHFINGERZ
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
6/12/05 5:19am
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
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In the begining yeah Anakin would have turned him in......especially considering he was kinda close to doing that in RoTS.
I do see that the circumstances were very different though in the 2 situations.
lol....Luke was VERY right about his over confidence at that point.
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redxavier
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
6/12/05 6:17am
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
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Emperor to Anakin
"You're fulfilling your destiny"
Anakin's response - Point me at em!
Emperor to Luke
"Fulfill your destiny and take your father's place at my side!"
Luke's respnse - Hmm... no.
Either Anakin is not the father of Luke, or he gets his brains from his mother.
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DARTH-SHREDDER
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
6/12/05 8:04am
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
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"Then anakin would ahve turned him in."
Anakin did turn him in. Just not right away.
Yeah, the circumstances were totally different. Luke knew the emporer was an evil sith lord so the emporer couldn't play nice guy. So he probably said "We'll do this old school. I'm da king of da kings. It'll work." But he still was way to overconfident
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Warrior_of_Mandalore
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
6/12/05 9:32am
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
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The Emperor wasn't trying to turn Luke. He left that job to Vader. Vader was doing a pretty good job getting Luke angry until Luke cut off his hand.
Warrior_of_Mandalore Strikes Again!
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boga_fan
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
6/12/05 10:26am
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
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Actually, the emperor was the one who was getting Luke angry, insinuating that his friends and the Rebellion were getting massacred. Luke took his aggression out on Vader, as the Emperor knew he would, once he pushed him too far. That's why he was laughing when Luke went for his lightsaber. The emperor did get complacent though in the past 20 years. Everything he planned went off without a hitch, with the possible exception of his star apprentice ending up a fried torso; he had not faced a serious threat to his power until Luke showed up and even then a barely trained Jedi was no match for a Sith Lord. The emperor underestimated the feelings Luke would bring out in his father and that was his downfall.
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chefelf
Registered:
Aug '04
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Date Posted:
6/12/05 10:44am
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
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It's an odd choice that Palpatine made, taking 13 years to befriend and manipulate Anakin but only 13 minutes to do the same to his son.
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LittleGreenManYoda
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
6/12/05 11:53am
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
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I was noticing when I was watching ROTS and Palpatine was getting fried by his own force lightning it looks pretty similar in scenerio when you look at Luke being shocked by Sidouses lightning I wonder if the same thoughts where going through Vaders head as they did when he was Anakin watching Mace Defelct Palapatines Lightning back at him.
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You can either agree with me, or be wrong. Representing Domestic Disturbence Car Club Anakin "You turned her agianst me!" Obi-Wan "You have done that yourself".
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DARTHFINGERZ
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
6/12/05 8:10pm
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
- Date Edited:
6/12/05 8:11pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
DARTHFINGERZ
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LittleGreenManYoda....Yeah I'd say the 2 scenes are meant to parallel eachother.
The first time out Anakin made the wrong choice, joined Sideous and Padme died anyway.
The second time out he made the right choice and killed that old evil bag of bones.
"The emperor underestimated the feelings Luke would bring out in his father and that was his downfall."
^ Couldn't of said it better myself.
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I have the DEATH SENTENCE on twelve SW messageboards.
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jelly
Registered:
Jan '05
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Date Posted:
6/12/05 10:59pm
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
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Does anyone else think that Luke might have turned easier if Palpy had just kept his big mouth shut during Luke's duel with his father?
Twice, he blabs, causing Luke to stop what he's doing and giving him the time to think about his actions.
The first time is right after Luke kicks Vader down the stairs. Luke has already given in a little bit by taking the lightsaber in the first place, and he's wholly involved in the fight with Vader. Palpatine says "Good! Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you!"
This helpful bit of advice has the exact opposite effect that he wants as Luke immediately shuts off his lightsaber and announces "I will not fight you, Father."
Then, right after Luke slices off Vader's hand, the Emperor shoots himself in the foot again. Luke is probably closer to the Dark side at that very moment than any other time during the duel. He's just completely given in to his anger and his fear for Leia and has pounded on Vader. Who knows what he would have done? Would he have gone ahead and killed Vader? Would killing his own father have been enough to push him that last little step?
Who knows? Because once again, the mouth that can't shut up says "Good! Your hate has made you powerful! Now fulfill your destiny and take your father's place at my side!" startling Luke back from the edge he was teetering on and giving him a chance to really think about what he was doing. And of course, the "father's place" reference brings to Luke's mind his own earlier mistakes in rushing into things.
Maybe it's because the Emperor's choice of encouraging words was poor...he kept saying "good" reminding Luke of the Light side. Or maybe he just loved the sound of his own voice so much, he thought Luke would love it, too.
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