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Topic:
Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
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brook_33
Registered:
Dec '03
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 2:37pm
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
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Palpatine's ego was his downfall, in the end, like Luke told him. It got so big after converting Vader and becoming the Emperor, he figured it wouldn't take any effort to turn Luke other than say it is your destiny. Before, when he turned Vader he knew he didn't have enough power to just say it was his destiny so he had to make Vader feel like he needed to turn.
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DARTHFINGERZ
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
1/28/06 10:02pm
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
- Date Edited:
1/28/06 10:03pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
DARTHFINGERZ
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Something I just thought of is that had Luke just turned and joined his father & Palpatine then that would have broken the rule of two for the Sith. Then again, perphaps GL hadn't had that idea way back when for RoTJ.
One could argue that Palpatine failed because turning Luke would have violated the ancient Sith law.
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blicknasty
Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
1/28/06 10:11pm
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
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When it comes down to it there is a moment of choice between doing good and doing evil. Luke's character could not become a Sith regardless of Palpatine's overtures because the story would not work out. My truest opinion is that Anakin was evil from the start and Luke was not.
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DARTHFINGERZ
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
1/28/06 10:12pm
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
- Date Edited:
1/28/06 10:13pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
DARTHFINGERZ
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^^ I agree Luke was good from the start but do you think Anakin was evil even as far back as TpM?
I tend to think he was misguided and corrupted.
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Master_EdgeCrusher
Registered:
Dec '05
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Date Posted:
1/28/06 10:40pm
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
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I know that later on he turns, but Luke has hope the size of the earth. It is like the Jedi juice is streaming in his veins!
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DarthButt
Title: Manager
• Classic Trilogy
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
7/23/07 9:22am
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
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Rise, my friend.
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RamRed
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
7/23/07 11:50am
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
- Date Edited:
7/23/07 11:53am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
RamRed
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Anakin we all seen was already leaning toward the darkside anyway and had all sorts of bad traits that would lead to his downfall.....Luke however was pretty much a true blue, good-guy all the way.
Oh come on! Luke was no more true-blue than his father. He had his father's impatience and inability to let go of attachments. And Luke also had a tendency to get temperamental, but not on the same level as Anakin or Leia.
In fact, Luke was damn lucky that he did not face the same Palpatine that his father did, over twenty years ago. He was also lucky that Palpatine did not know how to control what came out of his mouth, by that time.
And EVERYONE had bad traits that could lead them to succumbing to his or her inner darkness, not just Anakin and a few others.
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Lumiyas_Head
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
7/23/07 3:42pm
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
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RamRed posted:
Oh come on! Luke was no more true-blue than his father. He had his father's impatience and inability to let go of attachments. And Luke also had a tendency to get temperamental, but not on the same level as Anakin or Leia.
In fact, Luke was damn lucky that he did not face the same Palpatine that his father did, over twenty years ago. He was also lucky that Palpatine did not know how to control what came out of his mouth, by that time.
And EVERYONE had bad traits that could lead them to succumbing to his or her inner darkness, not just Anakin and a few others.
Despite Luke being impatient about many things, his path was always seperate from that of his father's. Luke never once struck down an enemy in anger, disregarding Darth Vader. Anakin, however, slaughtered the Tusken Raiders, Jedi Knights and Younglings, the Separatist Council, and tried to murder Obi-Wan Kenobi. Luke was never as emotional as his father. Luke did things for others and never for himself. Luke, in my opinion, was what Anakin would have been if he had not been corrupted by Palpatine and the Dark Side.
Besides, Luke did face the same Palpatine that corrupted his father. The mistake the Emperor made was trying to use the same game he had used with Anakin. It backfired and resulted in his destruction.
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Padawan_of_Palpatine
Registered:
Mar '03
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Date Posted:
7/23/07 5:52pm
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
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Actually.....Palpatine's game was quite different. With Anakin, he was subtle with his approach. He gave Anakin "perspective". He explained that the differences between Sith and Jedi were none. He sold Anakin on the idea that the "Dark Side" was merely a tool. A way to power...A way to justice....A way to order. With Luke, Palps just went nutty. Telling him he would be his servant like his father was. Use your anger. Get mad. Strike me down. The person who did the best job of tempting Luke was Anakin. Which should be no surprise because he saw Palps (in his prime) working him over with just the right words. But that is merely my humble opinion.
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SithMaster_69
Registered:
May '07
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Date Posted:
7/24/07 10:57am
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
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I don't think Palps had lost his touch, or was nutty.
This was a very different scenario:
Luke was not Anakin. He failed to take that into account. Luke may have been reckless at times and a bit tempermental, but he was trained by Yoda. This is important bc it did help center him.This helped when he fought Vader @ Cloud City. I don't know or think we've given that any credit.
Also, Palps had a lot more to work with in Anakin. The boy had ISSUES(things Luke didn't have going on) that made him a posterchild for going to the Dark Side.
& even then Palps had to carefully craft & gently nudge Anakin in the right direction. He had all the wood & fuel for the fire, he just needed the match...& that was Anakin's fears about Padme'.
Not so with Luke. Maybe he felt he didn't have to work as hard with Luke? Hence the overconfidence. Maybe he thought,"If I could get the father, surely I can get the son. But if not, I still have the father." Since Luke didn't kill his Pop, & chose to not join, Palps decided to eliminate him.
Now, if Palps had more access to Luke, Luke issues like his dad,and especially, if Palps didn't have a back-up, then he would've worked harder on Luke.
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DarthMateous
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
7/26/07 1:11pm
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
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Luke tells the audience why Palpatine fails...Palpatine is overconfidence. (We the audience think Luke's talking about Palpatine's ability to orchestrate the destruction of the alliance. However, I think Luke was actually referring to Palpatines ability to convert Luke to the dark side. He's converted at least 2 jedi to the dark side (Dooku and Anakin) and so he's confident that he can convert Luke.
The difference is that with Anakin, he did his homework, planted all of the seeds and manipulated Anakin into believing he had something Anakin needed. ("The power to save the one you love") He knew, if Anakin turned to the Dark Side, then the power would consume him. And it did, as we saw in the conversation he had with Padme on Mustafar:
ANAKIN: Don't you see, we don't have to run away anymore. I have brought peace to the Republic. I am more powerful than the Chancellor. I can overthrow him, and together you and I can rule the galaxy. Make things the way we want them to be.
PADME: I don't believe what I'm hearing . . . Obi-Wan was right. You've changed.
At this point Anakin's motives have gone from altruistic to completely self-serving and power-mongering.
With Luke, the only thing Palpatine had to offer was power and a chance to rule the galaxy. Palpatine had 15 years to plant the seeds and convert Anakin. With Luke, he only had the couple of hours the spent on the Death Star. He knew Luke cared about his father, his friends and the rebel cause; so Palpatine tried to use those things to cultivate Luke's into becoming angry at him. He tries to goad Luke into directing his anger and striking him down. But it doesn't work because Luke is prepared to die for his beliefs. Anakin wasn't. He felt he was invincible.
And it was Palpatine's arrogance that he could convince Luke to join the Dark Side that was indeed his undoing.
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drg4
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
7/27/07 5:27pm
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
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Now that we have the prequels, you'd think all Palps needed was a preface somewhere along the lines of: "Ever dream about Mommy? Pull up a chair, kid! Hey Vader, tell Luke what you did to Mommy!"
Ten minutes and BAM(!)...instant Sith-lord.
It's not wise to assail a Skywalker's mother, no?
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acmilanboy
Registered:
Jan '05
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Date Posted:
7/27/07 8:13pm
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
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drg4 posted:
Now that we have the prequels, you'd think all Palps needed was a preface somewhere along the lines of: "Ever dream about Mommy? Pull up a chair, kid! Hey Vader, tell Luke what you did to Mommy!"
Ten minutes and BAM(!)...instant Sith-lord.
It's not wise to assail a Skywalker's mother, no?
It's been done, in fact by Vader himself.
Vader played that card (e.g., stoke emotions by referring to a family member) when he said he was going to turn Leia to the Dark Side. That got Luke going, just as if Vader told Luke that he killed his mother. Just as effective.
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drg4
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
7/27/07 8:40pm
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
- Date Edited:
7/27/07 8:42pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
drg4
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drg4 posted:
Now that we have the prequels, you'd think all Palps needed was a preface somewhere along the lines of: "Ever dream about Mommy? Pull up a chair, kid! Hey Vader, tell Luke what you did to Mommy!"
Ten minutes and BAM(!)...instant Sith-lord.
It's not wise to assail a Skywalker's mother, no?
acmilanboy posted:
It's been done, in fact by Vader himself.
Vader played that card (e.g., stoke emotions by referring to a family member) when he said he was going to turn Leia to the Dark Side. That got Luke going, just as if Vader told Luke that he killed his mother. Just as effective.
True, but at least this way, we'd actually be treated to a real conversation, rather than hear every variation of "give into your hate/anger/destiny." (You'd think the Dark Lord of the Sith would have something more interesting to say.)
Besides, I like the idea of Palpatine twisting that imbedded knife. I mean, how would Vader respond?
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TwiLekJedi
Title: Classic Trilogy & YJCC Manager
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
7/28/07 7:32am
Subject:
RE: Why the Emperor BLEW it with turning Luke...
- Date Edited:
1/15 12:24pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
TwiLekJedi
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acmilanboy posted:
Vader played that card (e.g., stoke emotions by referring to a family member) when he said he was going to turn Leia to the Dark Side. That got Luke going, just as if Vader told Luke that he killed his mother. Just as effective.
I never thought about this, but really, Vader actually is a lot more successful at turning Luke than Palpatine is. o_O Palpy just didn't know enough about Luke (much unlike he did about Anakin), so he kinda had to go with Dark Side 101
Vader probably went with the apple/tree saying and tried exactly the buttons that would and have worked on himself.
Great, another reason why his "twin sister" speech is one of my absoulte favorite quotes 
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