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Topic:
ROTJ Chapter 9: Enter the Jedi DISCUSSION
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Moleman1138
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Aug '04
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Date Posted:
9/24/05 10:01pm
Subject:
ROTJ Chapter 9: Enter the Jedi DISCUSSION
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Due to the success of the PT CBC discussions, I would like to discuss ROTJ chapter by chapter on the DVD. There are 47 chapters to discuss over the next eight months, excluding Chapter 1: Opening Logos, Chapter 2: Return of the Jedi and Chapter 50: End Credits.
Each discussion will last 5 days. At the end of 5 days, the following chapter will be posted.
Chapter 9: Enter the Jedi
DISCUSSION: September 23, 2005 – September 27, 2005
DVD TIME INDEX: 22:09 – 25:06
Synopsis:
The main gate opens. In comes Luke dressed in black. He is stopped by Gamorrean Guards, who he chokes through the Force. Before making it into the Throne Room, Bib intercepts Luke. Luke mind tricks Bib into taking him to see Jabba. Bib wakes up Jabba. Luke demands the release of his friends. Jabba refuses and laughs at his offer. He says his mind powers won’t work on him. Threepio warns Luke about the trapdoor. Jabba says there will be no bargain and hits the trapdoor button. Down into the pit go a guard and Luke. END OF CHAPTER
Opinion:
Well it’s twenty minutes into the movie and we’re finally reintroduced to our protagonist of the second half of the saga. Last time we saw Luke was as a transitioning apprentice, lacking patience and skill. Now the character has evolved quite nicely.
Luke has that dark side feel. He’s dressed in black, the color imagery of darkness and he’s Force choking the Gamorrean Guards, which is definitely an evil trait. Wonder where he picked that up from? Vader didn’t do a Force choke in the last duel and I don’t think Yoda would have ventured his training into the dark side sans the cave.
I love the mind trick put on Bib. Well that’s another weak-minded fool to jot down in the books. Then you have the confrontation between Jabba and Luke. It’s done well. The only question is Hutts are immune to Jedi Mind Tricks like Toydarians? And how does Jabba know about the Jedi Mind Trick?
Well Jabba says there’s no bargain and we go into another paralleled motif of the battle against the monster. To give it more of a realistic look GL also threw in the sacrificial Gamorrean Guard, which I definitely liked. Good chapter.
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Host of CBC (Chapter by Chapter) for PT, CT and SFF forums and Box Office Game
ROTS-DS Chapter 3: Seeds of Rebellion
FOTR Chapter 29: Bilbo's Gifts
TSS Chapter 17: Facts and Feathers
(8/24/07)
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SephyCloneNo15
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
9/24/05 10:24pm
Subject:
RE: ROTJ Chapter 9: Enter the Jedi DISCUSSION
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One of my favorite scens in the saga. Nice light/dark contrast. No wasted space with middle tones. The Force choke is a nice touch. As for Jabba's immunity, I highly doubt that (or Watto's for that matter) is a natural immunity, so much as something he built up an immunity to. I bet he's dealt with enough disenfranchised Jedi-turned-criminals in his illustrious career to know what to expect when a Jedi starts waving his hands and speaking in that assertive tone of voice. I'm sure if Luke worked at it, he could have Force-rearranged the neurological patterns in Jabba's brain to get him to agree, but Luke decided to skip right to plan B.
I almost find Luke's failure to escape the trapdoor as sort of out of his character. 3P0 starts to warn him, and he can no doubt sense the big hungry prescence underneath him (although his mind may have been busy trying to trick Jabba), an yet he still falls for the trap.
I also really like him swiping that blaster, even though the trapdoor threw off his shot horribly. What do you think he had planned if he had killed Jabba? Did he think the rest of Jabba's court was just going to let him leave after murdering their host? Did he expect to fight them all with just a blaster (remember,R2 has his saber)?
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outrider462004
Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
9/24/05 10:38pm
Subject:
RE: ROTJ Chapter 9: Enter the Jedi DISCUSSION
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When I first saw Jedi, that first shot of that scene got me confussed. When Luke entered I thought he was Vader. Luke carries the figure of Vader which works well. Someone once told me that R2 was there and took Lukes saber so thats why he had to reach for the blaster. Its also the first time we see Leia in the slave outfit. But thats another thread.
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Ghost_Jedi
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
9/25/05 9:47am
Subject:
RE: ROTJ Chapter 9: Enter the Jedi DISCUSSION
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this scene gave luke a huge set of balls, that is the last mistake you will make Jabba
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You Must Unlearn What you Have Learned Head Council Member & Grand Master in the SWC Jedi Trials http://boards.theforce.net/star_wars_community/b10012/26052307/p1/?2238 GM of Ghost Recon Force - Champion of the 4th installment of the 2004 Jedi Draft! Spoi
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Moleman1138
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Aug '04
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Date Posted:
9/25/05 10:07am
Subject:
RE: ROTJ Chapter 9: Enter the Jedi DISCUSSION
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^^^ isn't that after the rancor scene? 
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Host of CBC (Chapter by Chapter) for PT, CT and SFF forums and Box Office Game
ROTS-DS Chapter 3: Seeds of Rebellion
FOTR Chapter 29: Bilbo's Gifts
TSS Chapter 17: Facts and Feathers
(8/24/07)
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ROTS_Obi1
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
9/25/05 11:59am
Subject:
RE: ROTJ Chapter 9: Enter the Jedi DISCUSSION
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Speaking of which, Why does Artoo have Lukes saber in the first place? I could never figure this out.
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SephyCloneNo15
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
9/25/05 6:47pm
Subject:
RE: ROTJ Chapter 9: Enter the Jedi DISCUSSION
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I think R2 has Luke's saber because Luke was secretly giving R2 Jedi training.
Actually, it was probably because Luke was preparing for the worst. He wanted to be a diplomat at first, show up armed with only the Force and do your best. But he had a feeling that if that failed, he might end up in a situation that would normally separate him from his weapon, such as being captured. Rather than take the risk of getting separated and having some Weequay or something stealing his lightsaber or getting it stepped on by the Rancor, he gave it to someone he could trust to give it back when the time came, ergo, R2-D2.
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Recipient of Thrawn McEwok's Squib Creations Limited-Edition Replica Glove of Darth Vader™
"Samuel L. Jackson isn't only a fine actor, but a gamer. He's one of us." ~ Kotaku
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Katana_Geldar
Title: Former CR Tasmania, AU
Registered:
Mar '03
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Date Posted:
9/25/05 6:51pm
Subject:
RE: ROTJ Chapter 9: Enter the Jedi DISCUSSION
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He gave the lightsaber to Artoo after he recorded the message, of course Threepio didn't know anything about it.
I love the way Luke convinced the Gamoreans to let him past, and then when he pulls the hood back over his head. So cool. *drools*
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Darth_Rabe
Registered:
Jul '01
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Date Posted:
9/25/05 8:14pm
Subject:
RE: ROTJ Chapter 9: Enter the Jedi DISCUSSION
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SephyCloneNo15 posted:
I think R2 has Luke's saber because Luke was secretly giving R2 Jedi training.
That's funny. 
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Delorean_Kenobi
Registered:
Mar '03
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Date Posted:
9/26/05 4:48am
Subject:
RE: ROTJ Chapter 9: Enter the Jedi DISCUSSION
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I like the scene when Luke Force chokes the Gamorean Guards. It shows us that since The Empire Strikes Back his abilities with the Force have increased greatly. We almost get the impression that by seeing him do something Vader could do he has become as strong as Vader in the Force. It was a great scene to introduce Luke into the film.
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Tyranus_the_Hutt
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
9/26/05 7:25am
Subject:
RE: ROTJ Chapter 9: Enter the Jedi DISCUSSION
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Luke has that dark side feel. He’s dressed in black, the color imagery of darkness and he’s Force choking the Gamorrean Guards, which is definitely an evil trait. Wonder where he picked that up from? Vader didn’t do a Force choke in the last duel and I don’t think Yoda would have ventured his training into the dark side sans the cave.
I like the isolated sense of mystery to Luke’s character during the first part of this film – although some have taken issue with Skywalker’s aggressiveness in this passage of the film, it is effective as a dramatic flourish which leaves us unsure as to which path Luke will ultimately choose. Objectively, I think this idea probably could have been executed with a greater amount of clarity, but for the most part, I am willing to accept this notion in the manner that it is presented to us. With the application of "Revenge of the Sith," there is now a nice visual symmetry between Luke’s entrance into Jabba’s palace in "Jedi," and Anakin, cloaked in his Bedouin robes, storming the Jedi Temple, and later the Separatist camp on Mustafar, in "Episode III."
I love the mind trick put on Bib. Well that’s another weak-minded fool to jot down in the books.
I agree with you, Moleman – the manner in which Luke manipulates Bib Fortuna creates an interesting contrast between the respective scenes which characterized Fortuna as he welcomed visitors to Jabba’s expansive palace, the first of which observed him greeting C-3P0 and R2-D2 as they made their way through the dimly-lit vestibule.
The only question is Hutts are immune to Jedi Mind Tricks like Toydarians? And how does Jabba know about the Jedi Mind Trick?
I suppose if Watto the junk dealer is familiar with Jedi practices, it is not unreasonable to conclude that an established crime-lord such as Jabba the Hutt would also be apprized of such things.
The confrontation between Luke and Jabba is a well-constructed set piece – it effectively communicates the posture and bravado of these two characters, each of which has a very different agenda. Although Skywalker is making an attempt to be diplomatic in his approach to the quagmire in which he and his friends are immersed, some passive hostility is evident in his terse manner and speech – a restrained affectation protects the more aggressive feelings concealed deep within his person. Or perhaps he is simply meant to appear confident. 
I love the way Luke convinced the Gamoreans to let him past, and then when he pulls the hood back over his head. So cool. *drools*
"You will bring Captain Solo and the Wookie to me."
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Master_Jedi80
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
9/26/05 11:34am
Subject:
RE: ROTJ Chapter 9: Enter the Jedi DISCUSSION
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i love when the front door of Jabbas Palace opens and a cloaked character steps inside.
Then as we see the force choke of the G Gaurds and the mind trick, we realize its luke, and he is a confident force user...not the "immature" jedi in training from ESB, but a fully functioning Jedi.
I love how he is using the darker side of jedi powers, because it does show how on the border he is...and how much he has changed since we last saw him
i love the conversation with Jabba and and Lukes attitude towards Jabba. Also Jabba is completely unimpressed by Luke, and doesnt see him as a threat at all.
I am surprised Luke couldnt sense the pit below him, or somehow wasnt told about this by Lando...
I still question why, he didnt carry the lightsaber in with him...but maybe cause he wanted to come in peace?? either way it ended up working out as planned as we see later.
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Parparamia
Registered:
Sep '04
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Date Posted:
9/29/05 9:55am
Subject:
RE: ROTJ Chapter 9: Enter the Jedi DISCUSSION
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I never understood why he did not come in armed. I have had to rationalize it out to >> he used the force and saw the future...so he knew how it would go down and that he would be better off without a weapon during the onset....but that is a little too omnipotent for me...if Luke knew the future, there would be no challenge for him and we can all attest that he was challenged. So I come back to my original question... I am at a loss. We know that there is no such thing as luck in AGFFA...Obi wan said so. I must conclude that Lukes victory was atained by using a little insight (Force) skill(Luke+Force) and destiny (Will of the Force)
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Master_Jedi80
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
9/29/05 12:08pm
Subject:
RE: ROTJ Chapter 9: Enter the Jedi DISCUSSION
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yeah, i agree...it doesnt make sense.
Luke also makes a grab for the blaster too, before he is dropped into the pit...
did luke still trust the blaster more? did he think it would be more effective with all of Jabbas Guards.
I guess, what you were saying is right.
he somehow sensed that hiding the saber in R2 would some how benefit and give him an advantage later on..
I know over analyzing can kill the fun, but in this line of thinking,you could even ask... why didnt Jabba just have luke shot on the spot..why all the dramatic "pit of Karkoon" business...or what if r2 was sent to work cleaning the rancor pit, not the sail barge...
yeah, luke must have forseen some or most of this stuff...hes the son of the chosen one you know...
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Moleman1138
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Aug '04
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Date Posted:
9/29/05 9:16pm
Subject:
RE: ROTJ Chapter 9: Enter the Jedi DISCUSSION
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Thank you for all your participation in CBC (Chapter by Chapter). ROTJ Chapter 10: "Oh No! The Rancor! DISCUSSION will be made available 12:20 AM EST. Although the discussion timeframe has passed, you may still discuss this chapter at your convienience. However, we will be moving on to the next chapter.
-Moleman1138
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Host of CBC (Chapter by Chapter) for PT, CT and SFF forums and Box Office Game
ROTS-DS Chapter 3: Seeds of Rebellion
FOTR Chapter 29: Bilbo's Gifts
TSS Chapter 17: Facts and Feathers
(8/24/07)
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Jedi_Master_Cazz
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
10/1/05 3:09am
Subject:
RE: ROTJ Chapter 9: Enter the Jedi DISCUSSION
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I think its very cool, it tells us whats happened to our favorite jedi (not including daddy)!
Cheers_Cazza 
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