Author Topic: Official Thread: Discussion of Potential Changes to the Classic Trilogy for Future Release, V.2.
Arawn_Fenn  10329 posts
Registered: Jul '04
46079_Darth Plagueis
Date Posted: 1/14 8:51pm Subject: RE: Official Thread: Discussion of Potential Changes to the Classic Trilogy for Future Release, V.2.
I insist that EMP grenades be added to each film.

 

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Drewton  310 posts
Registered: Jan '09
49174_Darth Malak (91109)
Date Posted: 1/15 5:27am Subject: RE: Official Thread: Discussion of Potential Changes to the Classic Trilogy for Future Release, V.2. - Date Edited: 1/15 5:28am (1 edits total) Edited By: Drewton
jedimasterbac posted:
The Emperor is supposed to have shut himself off from the populace, using subordinates to carry out meaningless tasks like overseeing Senate meetings and stuff like that. If you have him go to the Senate just for that, it takes away from that mysterious Emperor quality.


For something like the announcement of a few new policies, I would agree. For something as major as the dissolution of the Senate, I think he would announce it himself.

jedimasterbac posted:
They're only important retroactively. We shouldn't be throwing in stuff to the films ever time some EU author decides to come up with something or someone of importance to the rebels or the Empire.


If Marek was some just some random rebel who was as important as others, yes, but Marek's sacrificed inspired the founding of the Rebellion. I don't think it's as necessary as something like restoring the Biggs at Anchorhead scene, but still, I think it would work well. TFU is also considered to be next chapter of the saga.

Arawn_Fenn posted:
I insist that EMP grenades be added to each film.


Agreed. peace

 

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jedimasterbac  6236 posts
Title: CT and Fan Design Manager
Registered: Jun '04
24180_Obi-Wan Art
Date Posted: 1/15 9:26am Subject: RE: Official Thread: Discussion of Potential Changes to the Classic Trilogy for Future Release, V.2.
Drewton posted:
For something like the announcement of a few new policies, I would agree. For something as major as the dissolution of the Senate, I think he would announce it himself.


Well then, consider the storytelling problems in bringing the Emperor back in so soon, which does, in fact, go back to the whole "mysterious Emperor" thing anyway. By not showing him in A New Hope and only briefly mentioning him, you set up viewers to think "oh wow, where is this guy" and he becomes an even more mysterious figure. Then you get just a brief, creepy glimpse of him in Empire before finally seeing him again in Jedi. I think adding him into ANH ruins the mystique.

Drewton posted:
If Marek was some just some random rebel who was as important as others, yes, but Marek's sacrificed inspired the founding of the Rebellion. I don't think it's as necessary as something like restoring the Biggs at Anchorhead scene, but still, I think it would work well. TFU is also considered to be next chapter of the saga.


But you see, in terms of the films, Marek is just a random rebel, regardless of the overall canon storyline significance he might have. When changes are being made to the films they need to benefit the films themselves. If Lucas starts catering to the entire saga you're going to have four hours worth of in-jokes and continuity references that don't do anything to help the film along. If you add in some sort of mention of Marek because "he's important", you then have to take time to explain who was, what he did, and why he was important. That takes time and ruins the flow of a film. Besides, there's no good place to add in something like that.

 

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Merlin_Ambrosius69  1930 posts
Registered: Aug '08
6602_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 1/15 9:54am Subject: RE: Official Thread: Discussion of Potential Changes to the Classic Trilogy for Future Release, V.2. - Date Edited: 1/15 9:58am (1 edits total) Edited By: Merlin_Ambrosius69
Drewton posted:
Well, when someone says,

Merlin_Ambrosius69 posted:
Drewton posted:


More later.


Let's hope not.



I take that as bashing. But anyways, I hope I'm not sounding rude and my apologies if I am. I don't want to make this an argument.


Okay, apologies for the sarcasm. But I am entitled to express my opinion, and my opinion is that your list of changes to 'ANH' are 98% boring and pointless.

EDIT: To qualify that by taking one example, watching the Emperor disband the Senate when Tarkin tells us the Emperor just disbanded the Senate would be like watching paint dry. We get it: Emp disbanded Senate. Seeing his face, hearing his voice, just to satisfy your fannish fawning over the character spoils the mystique, the build-up to his full return in ROTJ. There is a facet of filmmaking known as "pacing" of which you appear to have little to no understanding.

 

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Drewton  310 posts
Registered: Jan '09
49174_Darth Malak (91109)
Date Posted: 1/15 10:40am Subject: RE: Official Thread: Discussion of Potential Changes to the Classic Trilogy for Future Release, V.2. - Date Edited: 1/15 10:41am (1 edits total) Edited By: Drewton
jedimasterbac posted:

Well then, consider the storytelling problems in bringing the Emperor back in so soon, which does, in fact, go back to the whole "mysterious Emperor" thing anyway. By not showing him in A New Hope and only briefly mentioning him, you set up viewers to think "oh wow, where is this guy" and he becomes an even more mysterious figure. Then you get just a brief, creepy glimpse of him in Empire before finally seeing him again in Jedi. I think adding him into ANH ruins the mystique.


He's really only a mysterious figure who you feel like you know nothing about if you consider the six movies to just be in separate trilogies and not one overall saga. When there was just the original trilogy, it worked really great not seeing the Emperor until ROTJ, but now, it doesn't really make sense when you watch them in order.

Drewton posted:

But you see, in terms of the films, Marek is just a random rebel, regardless of the overall canon storyline significance he might have. When changes are being made to the films they need to benefit the films themselves. If Lucas starts catering to the entire saga you're going to have four hours worth of in-jokes and continuity references that don't do anything to help the film along. If you add in some sort of mention of Marek because "he's important", you then have to take time to explain who was, what he did, and why he was important. That takes time and ruins the flow of a film. Besides, there's no good place to add in something like that.


Certainly not, on your last point. But with the mention of Vos, it was done in such a way that they didn't need to take a while explaining who he was. If that kind of mention could be done with Marek, that would be great, IMO, but I will say that if there isn't an opportunity where they couldn't mention simply his name and make sense, it shouldn't be done.

Merlin_Ambrosius69 posted:
Okay, apologies for the sarcasm. But I am entitled to express my opinion, and my opinion is that your list of changes to 'ANH' are 98% boring and pointless.


Fair enough.

Merlin_Ambrosius69 posted:
Seeing his face, hearing his voice, just to satisfy your fannish fawning over the character spoils the mystique, the build-up to his full return in ROTJ.


Well, that kind of happenedin TESB.

Also, the idea for having Vader and Palpatine briefly meet on Coruscant to discuss recent events came from a rumor that that scene had actually been filmed so that it would be included in a future ANH special edition. I don't know if that's true or not, but anyways...

 

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Drewton  310 posts
Registered: Jan '09
49174_Darth Malak (91109)
Date Posted: 1/15 10:43am Subject: RE: Official Thread: Discussion of Potential Changes to the Classic Trilogy for Future Release, V.2.
Sorry for the double post. Hopefully this list won't generate as much arguing...

The Empire Strikes Back
*Give Vader the title of "Sith" in the opening crawl.
*Animate the beginning Star Destroyer shot and other space shots that need it.
*Animate the wampa in his/hers/its first scene, as well as a shot of it knocking Luke off the Tauntaun and dragging Luke through the snow.
*Restore the "Dead Tauntauns" scene to add a more menacing feeling to the Luke-captured situation.
*Restore bacta tank lines.
*Restore the wampa trap.
*Animate the tauntauns.
*Maybe rescore some of the music, but nothing major.
*Redo lightsaber and blaster effects.
*Make the Obi-Wan Force Ghost resemble Ewan McGregor more, and perhaps blend his and Alec Guiness's voices.
*Extend the Battle of Hoth via animation.
*Give PROXY a miss-if-you-blink-cameo on Hoth if it didn't work in ANH.
*Animate the asteroid field shots.
*Animate the space slug.
*Animate wide-view shots of Dagobah, as well as making the set used look larger.
*Perhaps animate Yoda. I like the puppet, but if animated, there's better continuity with the prequels. I personally think that Yoda should have only been animated in the PT when fighting.
*Add new shots of Yoda training Luke.
*Have Boba take off his helmet in the shot where he watches the Falcon take off.
*Animate Bespin.
*Have Vader say the name "Emperor Palpatine" once.
*Put the "bring my shuttle" line back in.
*Replace the line "I am your father" with the original "Obi-Wan killed your father". (kidding, lol)

 

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Arawn_Fenn  10329 posts
Registered: Jul '04
46079_Darth Plagueis
Date Posted: 1/15 11:29am Subject: RE: Official Thread: Discussion of Potential Changes to the Classic Trilogy for Future Release, V.2.
I can't see why anybody would want to animate the Star Destroyers in that movie. What's wrong with them?

 

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Merlin_Ambrosius69  1930 posts
Registered: Aug '08
6602_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 1/15 1:54pm Subject: RE: Official Thread: Discussion of Potential Changes to the Classic Trilogy for Future Release, V.2. - Date Edited: 1/15 1:57pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Merlin_Ambrosius69
Arguing schmarguing. This is a discussion board. Now, on to the discussion:

Drewton posted:
Hopefully this list won't generate as much arguing...

The Empire Strikes Back
*Give Vader the title of "Sith" in the opening crawl.


That's actually kind of cool. Unnecessary, but cool.

Drewton posted:
*Animate the beginning Star Destroyer shot and other space shots that need it.


Well, this one and the others don't need it. The point is that these ships are so massive that they feel like planets; their motion feels so slow and ponderous as to seem undetectable, even as they are zooming through space at 100 million miles an hour (or whatever rate applies).

Drewton posted:
*Animate the wampa in his/hers/its first scene, as well as a shot of it knocking Luke off the Tauntaun and dragging Luke through the snow.


The film is going for mystery at this point. A quick shot of its face, followed by a close-up on a massive arm, is all we want for now. Pacing, man. Build-up. Mystery.

You've actually missed the necessary fix here. In the shot of the creature's hairy arm, you can see the red-orange sleeve of the tech wearing the arm at the far left of the screen. Paint this over with a little white fur, and have done with it.

Drewton posted:
*Restore the "Dead Tauntauns" scene to add a more menacing feeling to the Luke-captured situation.


The Taun-taun is clearly being eaten by the wampa. There are bones strewn about the cave. Luke is hanging upside down by his ice-frozen ankles. Plenty of menace.

Drewton posted:
*Restore bacta tank lines.
*Restore the wampa trap.
*Animate the tauntauns.


What?, Pacing!, and They're already animated by Mr. Phil Tippet and co.

Drewton posted:
*Maybe rescore some of the music, but nothing major.
*Redo lightsaber and blaster effects.


Unnecessary and Unnecessarier.

Drewton posted:
*Make the Obi-Wan Force Ghost resemble Ewan McGregor more, and perhaps blend his and Alec Guiness's voices.


Odd that you didn't suggest this for the living Kenobi in 'ANH'. Odd that you would suggest it at all, since MacGregor is doing a Guiness impersonation in the PT. Maybe Lucas should go back to the PT and make young Kenobi resemble Guiness more, and blend the voices? Perhaps replace MacGregor's entire performance with a digital Guiness lifted from Arsenic and Old Lace? One makes about as much sense as the other. Heavens.

Drewton posted:
*Extend the Battle of Hoth via animation.
*Give PROXY a miss-if-you-blink-cameo on Hoth if it didn't work in ANH.


Pacing, and Pointless.

Drewton posted:
*Animate the asteroid field shots.
*Animate the space slug.
*Animate wide-view shots of Dagobah, as well as making the set used look larger.
*Perhaps animate Yoda. I like the puppet, but if animated, there's better continuity with the prequels. I personally think that Yoda should have only been animated in the PT when fighting.
*Add new shots of Yoda training Luke.
*Have Boba take off his helmet in the shot where he watches the Falcon take off.
*Animate Bespin.


The asteroids and Bespin are already animated, the first with stop-motion in 1979, the second with multiple CGI angles in 1996. Are you quite certain you've seen this film more than a single casual viewing? The Dagobah set looks huge and already features animated flying things. Yoda does not require animation since the CGI PT puppet was modeled on this one. No new training shots are required; any more would be superfluous and ruinous to the pacing, which is already spacious. Fett taking off his helmet? What in-universe purpose would that serve the character? It's a bit too wink-wink for me.

[quote=Drewton]*Have Vader say the name "Emperor Palpatine" once.[/quote]

[sarcasm]Because otherwise the audience shall have no idea who he is.[/sarcasm]

[quote=Drewton]*Put the "bring my shuttle" line back in.[/quote]

I'm with you in this.

[quote=Drewton]*Replace the line "I am your father" with the original "Obi-Wan killed your father". (kidding, lol)[/quote]

Yeah!!!! Or better yet, "Obi-Wan is your father!" That'll keep us all guessing until ROTJ. wink

 

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BaronLandoCalrissian  796 posts
Registered: Jun '06
24218_Obi-Wan
Date Posted: 1/15 6:03pm Subject: RE: Official Thread: Discussion of Potential Changes to the Classic Trilogy for Future Release, V.2.
The classy thing to do is start from scratch with the original version, pick the 10-15 worst shots and re-do them with great subtlety, mimicking the best of what was possible in the 70s, using the original soundtrack music as a guide so as not to disrupt the original pacing. If you have to cut up the music, don't do it. (The re-dos of the old star trek episodes don't do anything that can't "fit" along with the original audio.) If I've learned anything from life and Escape from L.A. (and I have), it's that too many facelifts NEVER works.

 

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BarkingFrog  80 posts
Registered: Jan '09
7017_Bubo
Date Posted: 1/25 2:18pm Subject: RE: Official Thread: Discussion of Potential Changes to the Classic Trilogy for Future Release, V.2.
Some more changes:

- Digitally fix the Emperor's eyes in close-ups so they look closer to his ROTS eyes. They aren't yellow enough and the skin around them is too pink.

- Use CGI on the mouths of the speaking puppet characters to make the speech more believable. Maybe just Yoda.

- For one of the Degobah shots in either ESB or ROTJ, add Yoda's ship in the background, covered in moss and stuff... Not necessary, but it would definitely be cool.

 

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Compactor_3263827  481 posts
Registered: Nov '03
7297_Emperor Palpatine
Date Posted: 1/26 3:28pm Subject: RE: Official Thread: Discussion of Potential Changes to the Classic Trilogy for Future Release, V.2.
Merlin_Ambrosius69 posted:

Drewton posted:
*More digital-ness.
*Add completely new music to some scenes and in others just rerecord it to improve the quality.
*Replace Vader's entrace theme with Imperial March.


No, no, and are you kidding?




I don't think replacing Vader's theme is that big a deal. I actually think the Imperial March would be pretty cool, and add more gravitas to the scene, not to mention a little continuity with the rest of the saga.

But most of the other suggestions Drewton made were not my cup of tea, either.

 

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obi-arin-kenobi  303 posts
Registered: Jun '05
5484_Fan Force Chicago
Date Posted: 1/26 3:33pm Subject: RE: Official Thread: Discussion of Potential Changes to the Classic Trilogy for Future Release, V.2.
I just watched some of Adywan trailer. Sorry to say, but it just looks bad. The lasers? Oh my gosh. The "color correction" is even more off. The emperor hologram in ep V. Sheesh, I couldn't even finish THE TRAILER.

 

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Merlin_Ambrosius69  1930 posts
Registered: Aug '08
6602_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 1/26 4:27pm Subject: RE: Official Thread: Discussion of Potential Changes to the Classic Trilogy for Future Release, V.2. - Date Edited: 1/26 4:28pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Merlin_Ambrosius69
BarkingFrog posted:
Some more changes:

- Digitally fix the Emperor's eyes in close-ups so they look closer to his ROTS eyes. They aren't yellow enough and the skin around them is too pink.

- Use CGI on the mouths of the speaking puppet characters to make the speech more believable. Maybe just Yoda.

- For one of the Degobah shots in either ESB or ROTJ, add Yoda's ship in the background, covered in moss and stuff... Not necessary, but it would definitely be cool.


Why not fix the Emperor's ROTS eyes so they look closer to ROTJ? The older films came first and if any effort is going to be made to homogenize things, it should be done to the recent films rather than the older ones.

I wouldn't object to CGIing the mouths of masks and puppets -- IF it were done in a subtle way, rather than a way that says "Hey! Look! We've 'fixed' these guys mouths with kewl digital FX! See how they sparkle and glisten with luminous computer-generated pixels? Are we awesome or WHAT?"

I'm glad you said Yoda's ship would be unnecessary, because that's exactly what it would be.

 

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halibut  26787 posts
Title: FF GSA & FF-UK RSA / Saga Mod
Registered: Aug '00
42077_John Williams
Date Posted: 1/26 4:39pm Subject: RE: Official Thread: Discussion of Potential Changes to the Classic Trilogy for Future Release, V.2.
Just to comment on the latest "Should the Emperor be in ANH" posts.

Sidious (not the Chancellor) was only in AOTC right at the very end, and it didn't detract from that film, so he doesn't need to be added to ANH just because he's in the other films. He's mentioned, as is the senate. That's all that the film needs.

 

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Sanctuary_Moon  992 posts
Registered: May '04
14741_Funeral Pyre
Date Posted: 1/27 3:50am Subject: RE: Official Thread: Discussion of Potential Changes to the Classic Trilogy for Future Release, V.2.
Drewton, I'm an OT purist so I already dislike the Special Editions on principle. However, after reading your lists, all I can say is that I thank the Maker that George Lucas is making these changes and not the "fans".

 

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