Jedi Council Forums - Why did ObiWan or Yoda not prepare Luke for Force lightning in ROTJ?

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Author	Topic: Why did ObiWan or Yoda not prepare Luke for Force lightning in ROTJ?
That_Wascally_Droid Registered: Jul '01	Date Posted: 10/21/05 6:09pm Subject: RE: Why did ObiWan or Yoda not prepare Luke for Force lightning in ROTJ?
	He blocked Dooku's, yes. Palpatine's lightning was forcing Mace's saber back and he managed to knock Yoda's out of his hand. Mace was a pretty powerfully-built man. Besides, if Luke pulled out his saber and Palpatine couldn't knock it out for whatever reason, Palpatine had a lightsaber. He seems to keep it up his sleeve and out of view however. -----signature----- As has been said: Don't **** with Kenobi
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jedi_prime Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 10/21/05 6:57pm Subject: RE: Why did ObiWan or Yoda not prepare Luke for Force lightning in ROTJ?
	From the script: 125 INT EMPEROR'S TOWER - THRONE ROOM 125 Luke stands still, as the Emperor reaches the bottom of the stairs. The Emperor's laughter has turned to anger. He raises his arms toward Luke. EMPEROR If you will not be turned, you will be destroyed. Blinding bolts of energy, evil lightning, shoot from the Emperor's hands at Luke. Even in his surprise, the young Jedi tries to use the Force to deflect them. At first he is half successful, but after a moment the bolts of energy are coming with such speed and power the young Jedi shrinks before them, his knees buckling. The wounded Vader struggles to his feet, and moves to stand at his master's side. EMPEROR Young fool...only now, at the end, do you understand. So, it seems that either Yoda DID teach Luke about the lightning, or Luke simply instinctively knew the proper defense (other than a saber, that is). Food for thought.
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Tatooine_92 Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 10/21/05 9:25pm Subject: RE: Why did ObiWan or Yoda not prepare Luke for Force lightning in ROTJ? - Date Edited: 10/21/05 9:26pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Tatooine_92
	Obi-Wan: "Oh, and Luke, you do know that the Emperor has this little thing he likes to call Force Lightning?" Luke: "I do now. What am I supposed to do about it?" Obi-Wan: "I don't know. I guess just block it with your lightsaber. That's what Yoda and I did." and later... Palpatine: "If you will not turn, you will be destroyed." Luke: "Are you going to zap me?" Palpatine: "Well, uh, yeah I am." Luke: "Hold it for sec, Palps. Obi wanted me to do something. Now what was it? Oh I know! Block the Force Lightning with my lightsaber!" Palpatine: "The lightsaber you threw over there?" points Luke: "Oh. Yeah, that's the one." I dunno. I'm thinking maybe Yoda and Obi forgot? Or maybe they figured the Emperor wasn't using the lightning anymore. Or maybe they -did- explain Force Lightning to Luke, but he was too stupid to pay attention, so he got fried anyway. I guess we'll never figure this one out. -----signature----- Member of the official fan clubs listed in my bio "Of all the things to worry about, the Wookiee has no pants." --Mark Hamill George Lucas needs me!! --JOHN 8:32-- Tatooine 31
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Darth_Stouff Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 10/21/05 9:45pm Subject: RE: Why did ObiWan or Yoda not prepare Luke for Force lightning in ROTJ?
	I agree that Luke may have been warned about force lighting. We never hear him being told how to construct a new lightsaber, yet he does that? I'm sure Yoda would have had much time to tell Luke alot things we didn't get to see obviously. The other thing is what someone else touched on... Palps presumably still carries his saber up his sleve. If Luke carries on, he will probably have to face the Emperor saber to saber and then when Vader gets back on his feet, possibly Palps and Vader two on one against Luke. Even though Luke seems to be toying with Vader and pretty much kicking Vader's butt with ease, I don't think Luke was that well trained to face the two of them at the same time. Luke has to turn Vader. He sees that the path of anger and agression will not lead to turning his father, but only destroying him. After he wacks off Vader's hand, he could have easily executed him (ala Anakin on Dooku), then faced Palps one on one, but he doesn't want to KILL Vader but turn him back to Anakin. Throwing his saber away does seem a little counter intuative to his Jedi training, but hey it worked. Luke could sense the conflict within his father - I guess at that point, he puts all his eggs in that basket hoping his father will save him. Seems a little crazy after the let-down of his verbal confrontation with Vader on the Endor Moon.
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SarlaccSurvivor Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 10/21/05 10:19pm Subject: RE: Why did ObiWan or Yoda not prepare Luke for Force lightning in ROTJ?
	Obi-Wan and Yoda never intended for Luke to face the Emperor. Luke would have no chance in a fight against the Emperor; not even Yoda could beat him. And Obi-wan, at least, never thought that Vader turning back to the light was possible. Maybe Yoda did tell Luke about force lightning, but that really wouldn't help him much in a fight against the Emperor (because the Emperor has a saber, etc.) Obi-wan and Yoda were intending for Luke to face Vader alone, and they probably didn't even know that the Emperor was coming to the Death Star until it was too late. It was Luke who got the idea that he could turn his father back to the light side and possibly defeat the Emperor in the process. -----signature----- Member of the Luke Skywalker Fan Club and Princess Leia Fan Club. Knight of the Lambda Calculus "Don't become a monster in order to defeat a monster"- U2
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TwiLekJedi Title: Classic Trilogy Manager Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 10/22/05 2:50am Subject: RE: Why did ObiWan or Yoda not prepare Luke for Force lightning in ROTJ?
	I don't think it all matters. It's possible that Luke did know. He chose not to do anything. He wouldn't fight, he wouldn't even defend himself. He'd rather die than join the Darkside. By fighting, the Jedi lose. He not only did what his father couldn't do, but also what the whole old Jedi Order couldn't (or at least didn't). By throwing away his saber, he tells the Emperor "Do your worst". He does know that the Emperor is powerful and terrible. If he knows about specific devices (i.e. Force Lightning) or not is irrelevant in the end. He set out to redeem his father. Fighting back wouldn't have done that. If letting himself get fried by the Emperor doesn't do the trick, nothing does. He expected Palpatine to attack him. It didn't matter. -----signature----- We do what we must Because we can For the good of all of us Except the ones who are dead
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cymbalmonkey Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 10/22/05 10:40am Subject: RE: Why did ObiWan or Yoda not prepare Luke for Force lightning in ROTJ?
	It's interesting that after he was hit by the lightning the first time, bracing himself against the railing, Luke reaches his arm out towards something off screen to his left -- presumably the lightsaber he had thrown down ... as Luke reaches for his Saber, Palpatine says the "young fool" bit and hits him with the lightning the second time, and Luke can't recover from it this time, as it has presumably 1. paralyzed him and/or 2. diminished his force ability ... So maybe the fact Luke tries to reach for his saber proves he could deflect force lightning with his Saber (like Mace and Obi-Wan) but wasn't powerful enough, obviously, to deflect with his hands (like yoda) ... -----signature----- "The Emperor is NOT as forgiving as I am." -- Darth Vader
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farrellg Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 10/22/05 12:45pm Subject: RE: Why did ObiWan or Yoda not prepare Luke for Force lightning in ROTJ? - Date Edited: 10/22/05 12:48pm (1 edits total) Edited By: farrellg
	So, it seems that either Yoda DID teach Luke about the lightning, or Luke simply instinctively knew the proper defense (other than a saber, that is). Food for thought. In the film, I didn't see Luke deflect a single lightning bolt. The ROTJ novel mentions him attempting to deflect the lightning but being overwhelmed. The script you posted might not be entirely correct. I've seen the ROTJ script in the Annotated Screenplays, and it says nothing about Luke attempting to deflect the lightning, probably because it didn't happen in the film. Luke reaches his arm out towards something off screen to his left -- presumably the lightsaber he had thrown down . I thought he was just moving his arm in pain. -----signature----- Non so d'onde viene quel tenero affetto. http://boards.outerrimsieges.com
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Chancellor_Ewok Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 10/22/05 2:01pm Subject: RE: Why did ObiWan or Yoda not prepare Luke for Force lightning in ROTJ?
	Actually, Luke does attempt to block Palpatine's lightning. Its not very obvious in the movie, but the ROTJ novel is quite clear on this point and talks about Luke tries to block it, but Palpatine simply overwhelms him. -----signature----- http://tlongpublications.wordpress.com/ http://tlongportfolio.wordpress.com/ http://thestarsailors.wordpress.com/
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ClonedEmperor Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 10/22/05 3:10pm Subject: RE: Why did ObiWan or Yoda not prepare Luke for Force lightning in ROTJ?
	yeah, he blocks it till the bolts come to quickly and cover to much of an area for him to block, and than he just kinda gives up.. -----signature----- CloneMaster of the Church of Waru Grand Admiral of the Hoojibs
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Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Registered: Jan '02	Date Posted: 10/22/05 3:22pm Subject: RE: Why did ObiWan or Yoda not prepare Luke for Force lightning in ROTJ?
	Luke didn't need to be warned about force lightning. He had a very different form of training than Jedi just years earlier had. He was trained with self-experience, and that was truely what was best for him. It's better to be trained on the field than in isolation, in my opinion. If Luke had been told about force lightning, it's unlikely he could have deflected it because there's no way he could've gotten any practice against it. -----signature----- Dum Roma deliberat Saguntum perit. http://smuggler-of-mos-espa.deviantart.com/
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General Kenobi Title: Administrator Emeritus Registered: Dec '98	Date Posted: 10/22/05 6:20pm Subject: RE: Why did ObiWan or Yoda not prepare Luke for Force lightning in ROTJ?
	This has always been a good question. Now that we have seen lightning used by the Sith in the PT, it is even more perplexing. I tend to agree with TLJ in the more "global" approach to Luke's training and facing the Sith; perhaps trusting in the will of the Force more than specific Jedi training. Three people witnessed Palpatine using lightning: Mace, Anakin and Yoda. While Obi-Wan defended Dooku's bolts, and you would think he'd assume that Palpatine had this power too, he can't know for sure unless Yoda told him. And in the short time that they were together before going into exile, they were a bit preoccupied with the twins, and probably didn't have much time to debrief their respective fights with the Sith. Yoda gave Luke a general warning about the powers of the Emperor (and of course, back then Lucas didn't know for sure that we'd see lightning used in a prequel trilogy, much less that we'd see Yoda and Sidious duel). So again, back to Senny's point -- in the big picture it doesn't seem to matter as much.
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farrellg Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 10/23/05 3:53am Subject: RE: Why did ObiWan or Yoda not prepare Luke for Force lightning in ROTJ?
	yeah, he blocks it till the bolts come to quickly and cover to much of an area for him to block, and than he just kinda gives up.. At what point does Luke block lightning? I've never been able to see this. He would have to use his hand to block lightning and I didn't see any lightning come to his hand and be deflected away. I know that the novel mentions him being half successful at blocking the lightning at first, but the copy of the ROTJ script in the Annotated Screenplay didn't say anything about Luke attempting to block lightning. -----signature----- Non so d'onde viene quel tenero affetto. http://boards.outerrimsieges.com
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Grillbu_Fett Registered: Oct '05	Date Posted: 10/28/05 6:09am Subject: RE: Why did ObiWan or Yoda not prepare Luke for Force lightning in ROTJ? - Date Edited: 10/28/05 6:51am (3 edits total) Edited By: Grillbu_Fett
	Hello. I watched ROTJ and read the novel several times, and an idea came to me that may be a little blasphemous, and I'm sorry for that if someone is offended. I think that blocking Force Lightning may be a problem of continuity which shows up because of the (excessive) use of Force Lightning in the PT. I mean, regarding the premiere of ROTJ in 1983, or solely the OT, Force Lightning was a novelty, unknown to the audience, and it could have been unknown to all other Jedi and Sith as well. [EDIT] I emphasize to except the EU for a moment. [EDIT END] Palpatine/the Emperor could have solely developed it, and he could have been the first Sith Lord to use Force Lightning ever. Back in those days, IMO Force Lightning meant an incredible powerful and scary way of unarmed fight. I thought until the premiere of AOTC that there didn't seem to be a need for a lightsaber when achieving the rank of Sith/Jedi Master, because they were well trained in the Force and found other ways of self defense which may be unapparent. If I was GL and liked to solve this problem of continuity, as far as someone could agree that it may be a problem of continuity, I would have to add some scenes in TESB and ROTJ: Luke is told by Yoda about Force Lightning, regarding the previous discussed problem that the lack of field practice actually is a problem. Luke doesn't throw away his lightsaber, and as he deflects or absorbs some lightning bolts, the Emperor steps back a little, surprised and impressed, but then he raises a storm and unleashes his whole arsenal. But the other problem would be that Luke threw away his saber to show his reluctance to kill his father, although he became such a monster. [EDIT] From another point of view, someone might think that Luke tries to buy some time for the Rebel Alliance. Although he might know at that moment the first lightning hits him that he can't defeat the Emperor on his own he tries to tie him up to the Death Star and let the Rebels detroy it and kill him, Vader and the Emperor. [EDIT END] -----signature----- Tutor to the language course "English for berserk" Temp work: Thread Killer Music: Geonosis - No Sith Of Mine
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Greedo_forever Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 10/28/05 7:02am Subject: RE: Why did ObiWan or Yoda not prepare Luke for Force lightning in ROTJ?
	I haven't the time to read every single post, so I apologize if what I write is redundant: How do we know that Yoda and Obi Wan DIDN'T teach him about it? The point is that Luke isn't there to kill everyone. That's not the point. He throws his sword away to show that the Jedi way is not strictly by violence. He is giving himself up to bring his father back to the Light- by also showing how selfless he is. Regardless if he knew what the Emperor was capable of, I think that the scene would have played out the same anyways. AND I think that GL wanted to surprise everyone with the force lightning. -----signature----- "Bounty hunters... We don't need their scum!" "Ches ko ba tuta creesta crenko ya kolska!" "Yes, I bet you have..."
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