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Topic:
Is A New Hope.......Meh?
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Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
3/10 9:37pm
Subject:
RE: Is A New Hope.......Meh?
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Go-Mer-Tonic posted:
I think ROTJ suffers from the same problems of the prequels.
1) It's about Darth Vader's human side more than ANH and ESB were.
2) We all had grown older by then since ANH.
3) It used more effects than ANH and ESB combined, which lends more weight to the "Lucas cares more about effects than good writing/directing" perception.
The other thing that ROTJ suffered was Lucas' fatigue. By the time he finished ROTJ, he was so burnt that he declared he wouldn't make any more films in the series. As a result, he settled more than he perfected some of the individual elements.
1) I consider the Vader storyline to be one of RotJ's major strengths, as do most people I know.
2) I saw RotJ several years (and several times) before I saw SW or ESB. I have a great nostalgia for it, but I still consider it a weaker (less-well-made) film than SW or ESB.
3) The effects in RotJ are, on the whole, beautifully done and a delight to watch. And I think you'll find that the only major (non-"models>CGI") complaints regarding the whopping THREE space battles/chases in the PT are with regard to silly, unfunny gags like the barrel roll line and the buzz droids.
From what I've seen the ACTUAL major complaints most people have regarding RotJ are:
1) The disjointed, too-long first Act w/ Jabba & co. Whereas the first two movies set up an immediate back-and-forth between the Rebels and the Empire, and kept the momentum of the overall story by occasionally checking in with the bad guys' side of things, In RotJ we get "Building another Death Star, and, oh, the Emperor's coming," a looong, almost mini-movie, sequence that has zilch to do with the actual war going on (you know, what with the supertitle being 'Star Wars'), and then finally we cut to the Emperor arriving (which we knew was happening) in a slightly-fancier almost shot-for-shot remake of Vader's arrival scene from the beginning of the movie. It's practically the film's halfway mark before we see anyone from the Empire do anything besides walk around and talk about how everything's going OK.
Other than freeing Han up for the rest of the movie, the Tatooine portion of the film has no bearing on the rest of the movie, and the 'war with the Empire'/'defeat the Dark Side' storylines from the rest of the film have no bearing on the Tatooine section.
2) The Ewoks. "These movies are for children" is the classic argument in this case, and is also used to explain Jar-Jar's idiocy, er, 'antics'. But I challenge anyone to find me the parts of SW and ESB that seem to be designed exclusively for children the way the Ewoks' teddy-bear cuteness is. I actually consider this a weaker argument than the others, because with the Ewoks their cuteness is rather incidental. Whether they look like teddy bears or frogs, the Ewoks are still violent, cannibalistic stone-age tree-dwellers.
No one in RotJ 'oohs' or 'ahhs' at the Ewoks' cuteness. Jar-Jar's idiocy, on the other hand, is clearly acknowledged by everyone else in the movie. None of them laugh at his antics, and they only rationalize keeping him around because he has a role to play (being a dishonored outcast, of COURSE Jar-Jar was told the secret location of the Gungans' above-ground emergency hiding place).
3) The lazy writing in every part of the story not involving Vader's redemption.
-Another, bigger Death Star (which seems even more silly since the prequels revealed it took a whole generation to build the first one).
-Luke and Leia are actually brother and sister (in order to resolve the love triangle, a solution which requires the viewer to ignore the lustful encounters that MADE it a love triangle).
-Han Solo, who everyone fought so hard to rescue (abandoning the ongoing civil war to do so), doesn't really DO anything in the whole movie. Instead, LANDO flies the Millennium Falcon in the final, epic space battle.
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deadlyfries
Registered:
Feb '08
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Date Posted:
4/14 7:40pm
Subject:
RE: Is A New Hope.......Meh?
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Basically, it felt ALOT slower than the other movies; not that that would stop any Star Wars fans... 
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TaunTaunHerder
Registered:
Oct '07
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Date Posted:
4/15 12:33pm
Subject:
RE: Is A New Hope.......Meh?
- Date Edited:
4/15 12:36pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
TaunTaunHerder
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Star Wars (ANH) is my favorite of the saga. Return Of The Jedi is my
least favorite because of those little, talking,intelligent teddy bears.
Reminded me of a muppet movie.
Lame,lame,lame those Ewoks.
Uncle George should've stuck with his original idea of having
a battle with Wookiees, instead of Ewoks, in Return Of The Jedi.
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threepio_mania
Registered:
Dec '02
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Date Posted:
4/16 9:34am
Subject:
RE: Is A New Hope.......Meh?
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Maybe it's nostalgia, but the ewoks have never bothered me. Whiny prequel Anakin and his lame pick up lines bug me, the Luke/Leia kiss even though she supposedly "always knew", that bugs me. But those cute teddy bears...I still think they're okay. Maybe it's because they also have badass spears and stuff.
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TaunTaunHerder
Registered:
Oct '07
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Date Posted:
4/16 9:58am
Subject:
RE: Is A New Hope.......Meh?
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Does anyone know what kind of animal it was that some of the Ewoks headdresses
were made from?
One had what looked like a beak for a headdress, another had one
that had four fangs in the face.
What were those aninmals called, and, where can I see drawings of them?
Maybe in The Wildlife Of Star Wars ?
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
4/16 5:00pm
Subject:
RE: Is A New Hope.......Meh?
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Consider this a brief re-direct to the topic at hand. 'ANH' is not 'meh' and contains no Ewoks! 
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"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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emporergerner
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
4/16 5:53pm
Subject:
RE: Is A New Hope.......Meh?
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Ewoks= Meh
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"What fuels your power with the Force but your passion? The stronger, darker emotions. Anger, hatred, fear… these passions empower us."
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
4/16 7:53pm
Subject:
RE: Is A New Hope.......Meh?
- Date Edited:
4/16 7:53pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Vortigern99
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As for me, I like 'Woks just fine. As an alien species, they're not far from Jawas or Ugnaughts -- or Oz Munchkins, for that matter. Little people/creatures have been a staple of fantasy adventure films since the inception of the form. That the denizens of Endor's moon are furry and use crude weaponry is part of their savage coolness, IMO, not of some "teddy-bear cuteness" that seems to draw so much complaint.
I would further remind the Ewoks' critics that Wookiees are cute, too! I think Chewie is adorable. When my elderly grandmother took us to see Star Wars (now 'ANH') in 1977, she said her favorite thing about it was "that dog" -- she meant Chewbacca. She giggled at his very presence. My point here is: Who cares if they're cute? They get the job done.
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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General Kenobi
Title: Comms Admin
SW & Film Music
Classic Trilogy
Registered:
Dec '98
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Date Posted:
4/16 8:05pm
Subject:
RE: Is A New Hope.......Meh?
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deadlyfries posted:
Basically, it felt ALOT slower than the other movies; not that that would stop any Star Wars fans...
Watch 2001: A Space Odyssey before your next screening of ANH.
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Jango10
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
4/16 8:07pm
Subject:
RE: Is A New Hope.......Meh?
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I don't think the Ewoks suck. People blow that too far out of proportion. The only thing I don't like about them is how a rock to the head can kill a stormtrooper. Other than that, their fine. I can see how their spears and arrows can hit the stormtroopers under the arm or other places where they have no armor.
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zombie
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
4/16 8:09pm
Subject:
RE: Is A New Hope.......Meh?
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General Kenobi posted:
deadlyfries posted:
Basically, it felt ALOT slower than the other movies; not that that would stop any Star Wars fans...
Watch 2001: A Space Odyssey before your next screening of ANH.
I've always felt that acid allows one to transcend the perception of time, but then when it comes to watching 2001 I've always been a traditionalist.
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DarthButt
Title: Manager
• Classic Trilogy
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
4/16 8:20pm
Subject:
RE: Is A New Hope.......Meh?
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General Kenobi posted:
deadlyfries posted:
Basically, it felt ALOT slower than the other movies; not that that would stop any Star Wars fans...
Watch 2001: A Space Odyssey before your next screening of ANH.
Or Star Trek: The Motion Picture.
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emporergerner
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
4/16 8:25pm
Subject:
RE: Is A New Hope.......Meh?
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Its not that i dont like Ewoks as a specie. Its the fact that they defeat the mighty Empire that upsets me a little.
One of the reasons why ANH is'nt MEH is because their defeat at Yavin IV is believable. It works. Even though I like the whole the will of the people beating the technological terror. I just don't buy the Endor ground battle of ROTJ.
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Student of Vancouver film school
"What fuels your power with the Force but your passion? The stronger, darker emotions. Anger, hatred, fear… these passions empower us."
" I believe whatever doesn't kill you simply makes you... stranger. "
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Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
4/17 10:03am
Subject:
RE: Is A New Hope.......Meh?
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emporergerner posted:
Its not that i dont like Ewoks as a specie. Its the fact that they defeat the mighty Empire that upsets me a little.
One of the reasons why ANH is'nt MEH is because their defeat at Yavin IV is believable. It works. Even though I like the whole the will of the people beating the technological terror. I just don't buy the Endor ground battle of ROTJ.
Read up on the Vietnam War, then.
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zombie
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
4/17 10:44am
Subject:
RE: Is A New Hope.......Meh?
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Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon posted:
emporergerner posted:
Its not that i dont like Ewoks as a specie. Its the fact that they defeat the mighty Empire that upsets me a little.
One of the reasons why ANH is'nt MEH is because their defeat at Yavin IV is believable. It works. Even though I like the whole the will of the people beating the technological terror. I just don't buy the Endor ground battle of ROTJ.
Read up on the Vietnam War, then.
I've read up on the Vietnam War, and I don't remember the Viet Cong using sticks and stones and a few logs, it was more like submachine guns and grenades, gun emplacements and civilian attacks.
While the ROTJ battle is philosophically analagous to Nam in that the undermaned underdog living in the jungle drove out a more advanced army of occupiers, the manner in which it plays out I must admit is highly unrealistic.
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