Jedi Council Forums - Tantive IV's mission was NOT to deliver the Death Star plans to Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Locked Topic | Read Only Topic | Previous Active Topic | Next Active Topic

Author	Topic: Tantive IV's mission was NOT to deliver the Death Star plans to Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Darth_Davi Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 7/9/07 11:17am Subject: Tantive IV's mission was NOT to deliver the Death Star plans to Obi-Wan Kenobi.
	I was responding to the thread about Why keeping the name Skywalker for Luke, and I thought of something I hadn't considered earlier. Leia getting captured by the Empire was completely irrelevant to the destruction of the Empire. By that, I mean the events were already in motion as soon as Leia appeared in orbit around Tatooine in the Tantive IV. Hypothetically, lets explore what might have happened had Tantive IV not been captured by the Star Destroyer in ANH. First, some background. We know from ANH, that Princess Leia obtained the knowledge that General Obi-Wan Kenobi was not only alive, but was residing on Tatooine. That knowledge could have only come from one source, her adopted father, Bail Organa. That is significant, because Bail is not only one of what, 4 people in the entire galaxy that knows Obi-Wan Kenobi is there, but also who Princess Leia really is, and WHY Kenobi is on Tatooine (namely, to protect Luke). In a nutshell, I think it is fairly safe to come to the conclusion that When Bail told Leia where to find Kenobi, he was planning on Leia learning her true origins from Kenobi, and be introduced to her twin brother, Luke. He had to know that if Leia finds Kenobi, Kenobi would seek out Luke. It would also be foolish indeed to send her on a mission to find Obi-Wan Kenobi to give the DS plans to, when Kenobi wasn't involved in the rebellion whatsoever, unless he had other reasons for Leia to find him. The only reason that makes any sense is so she can discover her legacy as a Skywalker, and her brother Luke. It makes sense, if Bail knows Leia is actively involved in the rebellion, and is highly Force sensitive, he didn't send Leia to Kenobi to deliver the DS plans, that was just context. His true purpose in sending Leia to Kenobi was so that she could meet Luke, and they could begin their training as Jedi. To sum it all up, Tantive IV's mission was NOT to deliver the Death Star plans to Obi-Wan Kenobi, that was just the cover story...but its true mission was to deliver Princess Leia to General Kenobi to begin the restoration of the Jedi Order. -----signature----- What the hell is an Aluminium Falcon? Oh, I'm sorry, I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a thermal exhaust port thats only two meters wide! It wasn't even fully paid off yet!
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
DarthPoppy Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 7/9/07 11:27am Subject: RE: Tantive IV's mission was NOT to deliver the Death Star plans to Obi-Wan Kenobi.
	When Lucas wrote the script for Star Wars, he had not thought of Leia as Luke's sister/Vader's daughter, so he could not possibly have intended this at the time, though it does make some degree of sense within in the framework of the finished saga. However, this is not true of the story as initially conceived and constructed and does not work in Star Wars as a self-contained film. It is a valid interpretation of "A New Hope", I suppose, though not of the film "Star Wars", for what it is worth... -----signature----- Protect Fois Grois makers!
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
zombie Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 7/9/07 11:37am Subject: RE: Tantive IV's mission was NOT to deliver the Death Star plans to Obi-Wan Kenobi. - Date Edited: 7/9/07 11:40am (1 edits total) Edited By: zombie
	A very interesting interpretation--and its not really reaching either. My comment would be that the original motive--get Death Star plans to Obi Wan--are still valid. Bail may have decided that, since the discovery of the Death Star itself spells armageddon for the galaxy, its time to finally put everything into motion--get everyone back together for the final fight. Leia would meet Obi Wan, convince him to lead the Rebel attack, and naturally he would also take Luke with him. He would reveal their true origin to the twins and thus begin their training while the attack is planned, escorting the twins and the Death Star plans back to the rebel base--that was what Obi Wan was supposed to do, act as a bodyguard so that Leia and the rebels could make it back intact. With everyone else involved it would make little sense to leave out Yoda. Thus, all the major players would be reuinited for a final stand that would destroy the Death Star and then, while the infrastructure of the Empire is in chaos, possibly even attempt to bring down Coruscant. Maybe Bail, Luke and Leia could lead the Death Star attack while Yoda and Kenobi simultaneously launched a confrontation with the Emperor. Of course something to consider is: after learning of the Death Star and learning of Leia's request that he join the Rebellion, why does Kenobi tells Luke that Vader is a seperate person from his father? Seems to me that the whole "reveal their origin" aspect, which the rest of this interpretation somewhat hinges on, is deflated with the fact that Kenobi lies to Luke. -----signature----- The Secret History of Star Wars -- now available in print http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Darth_Davi Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 7/9/07 11:43am Subject: RE: Tantive IV's mission was NOT to deliver the Death Star plans to Obi-Wan Kenobi.
	I would suggest that Obi-Wan still believes that Anakin is irredeemable, so his justification in lying to Luke would still have remained valid. All He would then tell Luke and Leia would be that their father was Anakin Skywalker, who was killed by a young pupil of his named "Darth Vader". The lie would remain, he just would have told it to both, instead of just Luke. -----signature----- What the hell is an Aluminium Falcon? Oh, I'm sorry, I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a thermal exhaust port thats only two meters wide! It wasn't even fully paid off yet!
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Vortigern99 Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 7/9/07 1:34pm Subject: RE: Tantive IV's mission was NOT to deliver the Death Star plans to Obi-Wan Kenobi.
	Darth Davi, with Zombie's aid (and sound reasoning skills) I think you're really on to something here! How often does a "new" interpretation of the Saga come along that is both logically sound and emotionally satisfying? I've been trying to think of a rebuttal to your hypothesis, and any way you lay the pieces, the game is yours. Bravo. (Of course, as Darth Poppy has pointed out, it only works in retrospect -- in other words, retrofitting the storyline to shoehorn it into the Saga 1-6 -- since as of the writing and filming of the first film in 1976-77, Leia and Luke were not yet conceived of as siblings.) -----signature----- "I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction. I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece, a fairy tale."--George Lucas My "Vader's Origins" thread: http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
MisterVader Registered: Nov '06	Date Posted: 7/9/07 2:28pm Subject: RE: Tantive IV's mission was NOT to deliver the Death Star plans to Obi-Wan Kenobi.
	I basically agree with everyone, but may I add that Lucas' intentions are irrelevant? If this is what the movie says, then that's what it is! One thing: the mission was actually to get Obi-Wan to Alderaan with the plans in R2, not just to give him the plans, because that would be silly. That's the interesting part: Leia could have just gone to Alderaan with the plans, but the goal is to BRING KENOBI. Supposedly, Leia would go down, meet Obi-Wan, and then Obi-Wan would go and grab Luke and the trio would head to Alderaan for the attack plan and...Jedi training? It all rests on the value of Obi-Wan. What could Bail possibly want from Obi-Wan that would help destroy the Empire? Obi's relationship with Vader? -----signature----- http://boards.theforce.net/prequel_trilogy/b10669/28134500/p1/?0
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
timmoishere Registered: Jun '07	Date Posted: 7/9/07 4:10pm Subject: RE: Tantive IV's mission was NOT to deliver the Death Star plans to Obi-Wan Kenobi.
	In her message, Leia clearly states that her mission was to bring Obi-Wan to Alderaan and have him assist the Rebellion. Maybe having Leia and Luke meet up was a secondary goal of Bail's, but the survival of the Rebellion was paramount. -----signature----- Will do moose stuff for money. Everything tastes better wrapped in bacon, especially bacon 11/20/2008: The day I married the most wonderful woman in the world.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
R2QT Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 7/9/07 8:14pm Subject: RE: Tantive IV's mission was NOT to deliver the Death Star plans to Obi-Wan Kenobi.
	Your insight serves you well. I would only make a point that will booster your argument which is that intercepting the DS plans and fetching Kenobi almost completely unrelated. According to the Radio Drama she has two objectives, retrieve the plans and Kenobi. Her mission to bring Obi Wan to Alderaan is independent of her interception of the plans, except for the aspect that the galaxy is getting worse in Bail's opinion, maybe to a point of no return, eg the DS is capable of destroying planets, the Emperor is about to or has already dissolved the senate, and Luke and Leia are now adults. She doesn't even state in her message what R2 is carrying only that her father needs it. Leia has no belief that Kenobi will know what to do with the plans. If Leia hadn't directed them to the rebel base how would Kenobi have known what to do with the plans or where to take them after Alderaan was gone?
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
voodoopuuduu Title: Classic Trilogy Trivia Host Registered: Mar '04	Date Posted: 7/9/07 8:41pm Subject: RE: Tantive IV's mission was NOT to deliver the Death Star plans to Obi-Wan Kenobi.
	Obi-Wan was just an afterthought after Tantive IV got caught by the Imperials over Tatoonine, not a primary destination. From the ANH roll-up : It is a period of civil war. Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire. During the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the Empire's ultimate weapon, the Death Star, an armored space station with enough power to destroy an entire planet. Pursued by the Empire's sinister agents, Princess Leia races home aboard her starship, custodian of the stolen plans that can save her people and restore freedom to the galaxy... If Vader had done the smart thing and tailed (or put a tracking device on) the Tantive IV to her ultimate destination, the Empire would have discovered the location of the Rebels a lot sooner. -----signature----- Winner CT Trivia Challenge 44, 54 Winner PT Trivia Challenge 10 , 13, 14, 17 Joint-Winner CT Challenge 49 and 50, PT Challange 18
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
MisterVader Registered: Nov '06	Date Posted: 7/9/07 10:07pm Subject: RE: Tantive IV's mission was NOT to deliver the Death Star plans to Obi-Wan Kenobi.
	"My mission to bring you to Alderaan has failed." -----signature----- http://boards.theforce.net/prequel_trilogy/b10669/28134500/p1/?0
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Jango10 Registered: Sep '02	Date Posted: 7/9/07 10:23pm Subject: RE: Tantive IV's mission was NOT to deliver the Death Star plans to Obi-Wan Kenobi.
	DarthPoppy posted: When Lucas wrote the script for Star Wars, he had not thought of Leia as Luke's sister/Vader's daughter, so he could not possibly have intended this at the time, though it does make some degree of sense within in the framework of the finished saga. However, this is not true of the story as initially conceived and constructed and does not work in Star Wars as a self-contained film. It is a valid interpretation of "A New Hope", I suppose, though not of the film "Star Wars", for what it is worth... I know your a purist and all about Star Wars and the original OT. But wasn't Star Wars (which is what I call ANH also, if you believe it) subtitled Episode IV: A New Hope, in re-releases as early as 1978 or '79? Long before the prequels or the SE's. -----signature----- "I love the smell of Napalm in the morning." McCain/Palin '08
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
voodoopuuduu Title: Classic Trilogy Trivia Host Registered: Mar '04	Date Posted: 7/9/07 10:51pm Subject: RE: Tantive IV's mission was NOT to deliver the Death Star plans to Obi-Wan Kenobi.
	MisterVader posted: "My mission to bring you to Alderaan has failed." Good point, I didnt realize the non-sequetor in those two statements until now. 1) Pursued by the Empire's sinister agents, Princess Leia races home aboard her starship, custodian of the stolen plans that can save her people and restore freedom to the galaxy... 2) I regret that I am unable to present my father's request to you in person, but my ship has fallen under attack and I'm afraid my mission to bring you to Alderaan has failed. No wonder the Tantive IV was captured. They stopped to pick up passengers. So much for racing home. -----signature----- Winner CT Trivia Challenge 44, 54 Winner PT Trivia Challenge 10 , 13, 14, 17 Joint-Winner CT Challenge 49 and 50, PT Challange 18
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
DarthBoba Registered: Jun '00	Date Posted: 7/10/07 5:25am Subject: RE: Tantive IV's mission was NOT to deliver the Death Star plans to Obi-Wan Kenobi.
	MisterVader posted: I basically agree with everyone, but may I add that Lucas' intentions are irrelevant? If this is what the movie says, then that's what it is! One thing: the mission was actually to get Obi-Wan to Alderaan with the plans in R2, not just to give him the plans, because that would be silly. That's the interesting part: Leia could have just gone to Alderaan with the plans, but the goal is to BRING KENOBI. Supposedly, Leia would go down, meet Obi-Wan, and then Obi-Wan would go and grab Luke and the trio would head to Alderaan for the attack plan and...Jedi training? It all rests on the value of Obi-Wan. What could Bail possibly want from Obi-Wan that would help destroy the Empire? Obi's relationship with Vader? Well, now that ROTS is released, I'd say the greatest still-Jedi hero of the Clone Wars being on your side would be a nice shot in the arm for the Rebellion's legitimacy. And just look at Tarkin's reaction to just the name Obi-Wan Kenobi. This is a dude the Empire is terrified of-I'd say it was common knowledge for the higher-ups that Kenobi survived the Clone Wars. -----signature----- Only a Prime can defeat Vader and his Emperor.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Arawn_Fenn Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 7/11/07 7:50pm Subject: RE: Tantive IV's mission was NOT to deliver the Death Star plans to Obi-Wan Kenobi. - Date Edited: 7/11/07 7:50pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Arawn_Fenn
	Well, somebody chopped Vader up... But yeah, Tarkin says "surely he must be dead by now", not "surely he died in Order 66". -----signature----- "James T. Kirk was a great man... but that was another life."
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
DarthBoba Registered: Jun '00	Date Posted: 7/12/07 6:02am Subject: RE: Tantive IV's mission was NOT to deliver the Death Star plans to Obi-Wan Kenobi.
	I had a thought the other day. It seems Palpatine was planning to use Anakin's reputation as the greatest hero of the clone wars to reinforce the Empire's legitimacy; perhaps something similar (albeit totally baseless) was done with Kenobi? I'm sure it was the Empire's official stance he was dead, but perhaps the story for Kenobi was something silly like he died attempting to defend Palpatine from the attacks of his fellow Jedi Masters? I can see Palpatine doing something like that; it'd be in his nature. -----signature----- Only a Prime can defeat Vader and his Emperor.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History