| Author |
Topic:
Why is there a 1 year gap between TESB and ROTJ?
|
SoonerSean
Registered:
Jul '07
|
Date Posted:
1/21 3:39pm
Subject:
RE: Why is there a 1 year gap between TESB and ROTJ?
|
As a kid seeing ROTJ for the first few times I always thought the span between movies was at least several months and in between Luke had completed his Jedi training.
It wasn't until later that I was old enough to actually catch Luke telling Yoda that he had returned to complete his training. Mind you I first saw it on opening day - when I was 12 (so he's questioning about Vader didn't cause me to scratch my head).
Given that - it seems clear that we're talking about a very short span of time - otherwise wouldn't Luke have gone back to Yoda much sooner - especially in light of what Vader told him?
So while the characters/actors look much older - I think events demand that the span of time be fairly short. If ROTJ had been set any later - we'd be wondering why they left Han for so long.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Alpha-Red
Registered:
Apr '04
|
Date Posted:
1/21 3:51pm
Subject:
RE: Why is there a 1 year gap between TESB and ROTJ?
- Date Edited:
1/21 3:52pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Alpha-Red
|
zombie posted:
To me, I always thought it was two or three months and no more than that. I mean how long are they going to just sit around and let Han remain dead? The way ESB ended, with Lando basically seeing "see you real soon when we rescue Han", implied that ROTJ would pick up very shortly later, like right after they caught up with Boba Fett (ie a few weeks)-- a year is totally out there and unrealistic. I guess the EU has a different (inconsistent) interpretation compared to the film but the EU has always been a sort of parallel universe anyway.
The hunt for Han Solo could've taken longer....what's there to say that Jabba ran his business only from Tatooine? Or that this particular structure in the middle of nowhere serves as his headquarters? What kind of high profile gangster advertises the location of his palace so that rival gangs can bomb it to dust from orbit? Locating Jabba's Palace could've taken longer than a year, and given that Luke and Leia had other duties they could've just been doing other things while Chewie and Lando attempt to pinpoint Han's location and call in for backup.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
zombie
Registered:
Aug '99
|
Date Posted:
1/21 4:21pm
Subject:
RE: Why is there a 1 year gap between TESB and ROTJ?
|
Lando and Chewie are taking off saying they are going to follow Boba Fett to Jabba the Hutt, whom they know is on Tatooine and know that that is where Fett is taking his bounty. Luke says "okay, I'll meet you on Tatooine"--implying that it would be very soon, as the only reason he didn't accompany them was because he was still healing in the medical frigate. So logic dictates that as soon as he healed--which is what, a day or two?--Luke and Leia set out to meet them on Tatooine, as they expressed aloud. Then the next time we see them--ROTJ--they have all met on Tatooine.
I'll allow that they probably took a few days to scope out everything and get everything in place, and travel there might have taken a few days as well.
So going on the films themselves its indicated that ROTJ is something like a month after ESB. Which makes sense. I know EU has all sorts of other stuff but part of the novelty of Shadows of the Empire, for instance, was that it turned upside down the assumption that ROTJ basically is a continuation of ESB by showing that there was actually this convoluted detour, but thats just EU playing with the timeline because it was running out of other ideas.
-----signature-----
I'll swallow your soul! --------------------------------- If you're gonna die, die with your boots on! -------------------------------- author of The Secret History of Star Wars http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
BaronLandoCalrissian
Registered:
Jun '06
|
Date Posted:
1/21 4:56pm
Subject:
RE: Why is there a 1 year gap between TESB and ROTJ?
|
|
Well in the old comics, which (at the time at least) were the "official, Lucas-approved" chronicle (and back then, he was more involved in that stuff, he even hand-picked artists) of what was going on, Fett proved very difficult to track, and Vader was hot on their heels. In fact, I believe they actually did meet at the Tatooine rendezvous point, and Fett hadn't arrived yet, necessitating a change of plan. It's been awhile, but if you ignore the fill-in issues (pre-written filler stories used when the deadlines weren't going to be met by the main story) they did seem to have about a years' worth of hijinks.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Alpha-Red
Registered:
Apr '04
|
Date Posted:
1/21 7:18pm
Subject:
RE: Why is there a 1 year gap between TESB and ROTJ?
|
|
We only know that Boba Fett was taking Han to Jabba on Tatooine in hindsight. What's there to say that anyone knew where Jabba was beforehand? Logic dictates that a renown crime lord would not predictably stay in one spot for long without being assassinated by rivals or shut down by law enforcement. Anybody remember razing Jabba's Palace in the Rogue Squadron II training mission? That's right, it's a big fat easy target and if you're a wanted individual you don't want anyone knowing that you frequent the place....hence secrecy and more effort to find out where Jabba is hiding out. Heck, even Lando says "when we find Jabba the Hutt and that bounty hunter...." implying that indeed they didn't know where he was.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
zombie
Registered:
Aug '99
|
Date Posted:
1/21 8:00pm
Subject:
RE: Why is there a 1 year gap between TESB and ROTJ?
|
|
Jabba lives on Tatooine and they say they are meeting on Tatooine. Put two and two together. Theres no need to complicate things with tales of detour adventures, Fett's a bounty hunter delivering the bounty to his contracter, whom he would want to recieve payment from as soon as possible, which is why Lando and Luke at the end of ESB are planning to rescue Han by way of a mission to Tatooine.
-----signature-----
I'll swallow your soul! --------------------------------- If you're gonna die, die with your boots on! -------------------------------- author of The Secret History of Star Wars http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
zombie
Registered:
Aug '99
|
Date Posted:
1/21 8:17pm
Subject:
RE: Why is there a 1 year gap between TESB and ROTJ?
|
BaronLandoCalrissian posted:
Well in the old comics, which (at the time at least) were the "official, Lucas-approved" chronicle (and back then, he was more involved in that stuff, he even hand-picked artists) of what was going on, Fett proved very difficult to track, and Vader was hot on their heels. In fact, I believe they actually did meet at the Tatooine rendezvous point, and Fett hadn't arrived yet, necessitating a change of plan. It's been awhile, but if you ignore the fill-in issues (pre-written filler stories used when the deadlines weren't going to be met by the main story) they did seem to have about a years' worth of hijinks.
The comics don't have a year's worth of adventures, they have three years worth of adventures (1980-1983), and they have three years worth of adventures because they had to if they wanted to keep the comic line going, they couldn't just put it on hiatus until after ROTJ. The timeline of the comic is not deliberate design but marketplace necessity.
Further bringing the shorter timeline of the film into focus is the presence of Boba Fett at Jabba's palace. I'm sure the EU has some explanation in that he came back for another job and was coincidentally hanging about. But by way of the film, he's probably still there because he hasn't left yet.
Think about it: the rescue of Han is a huge deal to Leia, Luke and even Lando. As soon as they escape Bespin they are already making plans and even taking action to go get him--its an immediate thing. Its damned important that they get Han immediately (not the least because he may be killed in time, or executed by Jabba if they wait). Boba Fett got a huge head start to Tattooine, leaving them well behind while they were in Cloud City, so theres no point in trying to keep up with him, which is why they head straight to Tatooine; thats where Fett would be taking Han. So immediately following the whole Bespin incident, Lando is already setting out with Chewie--in fact, they are so determined to get back their friend that Luke is still having his hand re-habilitated (which would have been one of the first things he did when they finally reached the Rebels, indicating the ending coda scene of ESB takes place only hours after their escape from the Empire). And the only reason Luke isn't joining them is because he's having surgury--Lando doesn't want to wait so he sets out with Chewie ahead of them. "I'll meet you at the rendevouz point on Tatooine," Luke tells him as the Falcon ships off. Leia, we must conclude, had to attend to some details as she is a high-ranking leader in the Alliance, so she stays with Luke for the time being. But, like Lando and Chewie, they would have set off to go get Han at the earliest possible opportunity--which is to say, nearly right away.
When we enter ROTJ everyone has rendevouzed at Tatooine and the rescue plan is enacted. How much time could have passed? Probably only a couple weeks. Perhaps, in fact, only a week or two. Which is why Boba Fett is still there--having just delivered Han Solo to Jabba, he hangs around at the palace for a while. In fact, he hasn't even gotten around to leaving yet when suddenly Luke, Leia, Chewie and Lando have arrived to get Han back.
The whole 1 year thing is just an EU device that was created so that writers had a timeperiod to write material in.
-----signature-----
I'll swallow your soul! --------------------------------- If you're gonna die, die with your boots on! -------------------------------- author of The Secret History of Star Wars http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
|
Date Posted:
1/21 9:47pm
Subject:
RE: Why is there a 1 year gap between TESB and ROTJ?
|
Zombie, that Lando and Chewie set out with the intent of meeting Luke and Leia on Tatooine "in a few days" (which itself is arguable) does not mean perforce that events transpired as the characters intended. Snafus and wrenches-in-the-machinery seem to be a constant in the GFFA. Plus which, your assessment of "a few weeks" between the end of ESB and the beginning of ROTJ does not allow for the necessary time for Leia to adopt the Boushh disguise, for Lando to gain the trust of Jabba's hiring personnel, or least of all for Luke to develop his skills and confidence to the point where he is capable of constructing his own saber, unaided by Kenobi or Yoda.
In any case, irrespective of the EU, it's just plain fun to imagine all sorts of adventures for our heroes between the films!
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
zombie
Registered:
Aug '99
|
Date Posted:
1/21 10:51pm
Subject:
RE: Why is there a 1 year gap between TESB and ROTJ?
- Date Edited:
1/21 10:52pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
zombie
|
I know its fun to imagine more adventures, I'm just saying that the films themselves follow a finite and defined chronlogy. Theres just no reason to assume that a series of mis-adventures took place: Fett would logically be heading to Tatooine, Lando leaves and says he's going after Han, and Luke says he'll be joining him on Tatooine. Then when we see them next in ROTJ, Fett's on Tatooine, Lando's already followed him there and Luke and Leia just arrive.
As to Lando getting himself hired by Jabba's court, as far as the movie is concerned I would take it that Lando showed up at the palace doorstep as a mercenary and offered his services for hire as a palace guard, thus allowing himself to be present when Leia and Luke made their entrances. Its not totally realistic mind you, but its in keeping with the dramatic requirements and suspension of disbelief in Star Wars films. As for Luke constructing a lightsaber--in the deleted scene that was filmed, he completes building it (ie puts the final piece in) and then places it inside R2 and records his message. So he literally just finished building it the day before he showed up at Jabba's palace. How long would that take to build? A few days? Maybe a week or two at the most? While that is happening Leia is readying to adopt her Boush desguise and Lando is being hired by Jabba's court. Meanwhile Boba Fett is still hanging out at Jabba's palace, probably enjoying the huge reward that set him up for life.
I think it just seems like theres been a big stretch of time because Luke and Leia look like they've aged about seven years (I know Fisher had that whole drug and mental thing, but whats up with Hamill?).
-----signature-----
I'll swallow your soul! --------------------------------- If you're gonna die, die with your boots on! -------------------------------- author of The Secret History of Star Wars http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon
Registered:
Dec '00
|
Date Posted:
1/21 10:57pm
Subject:
RE: Why is there a 1 year gap between TESB and ROTJ?
|
Vortigern99 posted:
Plus which, your assessment of "a few weeks" between the end of ESB and the beginning of ROTJ does not allow for the necessary time for Leia to adopt the Boushh disguise, for Lando to gain the trust of Jabba's hiring personnel
Both of those are the sort of things that happen in almost every heist movie ever made in a matter of days or weeks. Take away the SF/Fantasy context and Lando and Leia are acting just like characters in something like Ocean's Eleven.
Vortigern99 posted:
or least of all for Luke to develop his skills and confidence to the point where he is capable of constructing his own saber, unaided by Kenobi or Yoda.
That could easily have been something he learned offscreen during ESB.
Vortigern99 posted:
In any case, irrespective of the EU, it's just plain fun to imagine all sorts of adventures for our heroes between the films!
It's also fun to imagine stories involving the love triangle between Han and the non-sibling Leia and Luke, but it doesn't quite fit with what's in the new movie.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
BaronLandoCalrissian
Registered:
Jun '06
|
Date Posted:
1/21 11:50pm
Subject:
RE: Why is there a 1 year gap between TESB and ROTJ?
|
All true. I was just pointing out that this notion of more time going by isn't new.
Mark Hamill's appearance I can accept, Luke's had the crap kicked out of him, probably isn't getting much sleep and has to be taking some kind of space-vicodin for his severed hand. Han looks like he put on weight in carbonite. Maybe being frozen causes bloating. To me the only thing in the actual movie that suggests more than a few days have gone by is how sick Yoda has gotten since we last saw him.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
timmoishere
Registered:
Jun '07
|
Date Posted:
1/22 12:33am
Subject:
RE: Why is there a 1 year gap between TESB and ROTJ?
|
zombie posted:
Fett would logically be heading to Tatooine,
Yes, Fett did go straight to Tatooine, but IG-88 was waiting for him there to try to take the prize away. Fett's ship was damaged in the fight and he needed to go to Gall for repairs. Lando and Chewie likely arrived after this took place, so they spent some time waiting for Fett to come. Once Luke and Leia joined them, they had to figure out where Fett had gone, since he obviously hadn't delivered Han to Jabba yet.
-----signature-----
What ain't no country I ever heard of. They speak English in What?
Vikings > Pirates > Ninjas
Everything tastes better wrapped in bacon, especially bacon
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
obi-rob-kenobi4
Registered:
Apr '07
|
Date Posted:
1/22 5:34am
Subject:
RE: Why is there a 1 year gap between TESB and ROTJ?
- Date Edited:
1/22 5:34am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
obi-rob-kenobi4
|
luke didn't say that he would meet them on Tatooine he sed he would meet them on some place called "tadoo 8" that was just for them all to regroup and get some kind of strategy together at witch point i dont even think they were going to talk about rescuing han the way they did in ROTJ. i think they were going to plan what they were going to do to even get started with black sun and getting lando into the underworld enough so that he would be able to get heired by jabba and so on. i think there was at least a year to two years but no less in between TESB and ROTJ. 
-----signature-----
so this is how liberty dies with thunderous applause.....
who am i,where am i going?
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
|
Date Posted:
1/22 8:23am
Subject:
RE: Why is there a 1 year gap between TESB and ROTJ?
- Date Edited:
1/22 8:28am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Vortigern99
|
I don't buy Lando getting hired on the spot to work the sitting room of what is essentially the ruler of Tatooine. If this scene was in the movie, I would be a firm opponent of the idea, virulently ojecting to it on the grounds of logic and verisimilitude. News of the dissolution of Bespin would be galaxy-wide in a matter of hours, let alone days, and Lando's ties to it -- and to his former friend, Han Solo -- would in all likelihood be well known by Jabba's syndciate. In other words, they'd be looking out for him. The obvious objection to this -- that Jabba hired Lando on purpose, as part of the trap -- is invalidated by the obvious fact that Lando -- or Leia, or Luke -- would know that his hiring was too easy, and that Jabba was indeed laying a trap. To cap this off, in the movie C3PO says "Lando Calrissian never came back from this awful place," clearly indicating that more than a few days or weeks have passed.
As to Luke building his lightsaber in a few days, again I don't buy it. Yes, I'm aware of the deleted scene featuring its construction, but that tells us nothing about how long it's taken him to build it. First he would need to locate the materials, which even if you don't follow EU you must reasonably acknowldege require special elements of some kind, such as crystals. These weapons are the fantasy equivalent of magic swords, and cannot be obtained by a simple sit-down procedure at one's workdesk. Further, I refute the idea that Yoda showed him how to build it on Dagobah; there were no tools or machinery of any kind, no work station set up in the midst of the jungle. The concept is contradictory to the pastoral wilderness and technological sparseness of the swamp planet. No, I reiterate that logically, Luke would have had to discover the process of building a lasersword on his own.
I'll let the Boussh idea go, because in Jabba's Palace it does seem like no one recognizes her/it, and it's reasonable that she could have invented the persona out of whole cloth, regardless of what the EU says on this score.
But, returning to Yoda, as BLC pointed out, in ROTJ Yoda has aged considerably since last we saw him. It's not reasonable to conclude from his sickly appearance that a mere few days have passed since Luke left Dagobah. And though they're not sick, our heroes' appearances have also changed; Leia's face has fallen and her voice is hoarse, and Luke has matured considerably. Whatever you make of his scars, it's obvious that the years are beginning to settle on the character. To explain these changes in an "in-movie" way requires, not a suspension of disbelief, but an imaginative construction that satisfies all of the seeming incosistencies and questions. The simple statement "Three or more years must have passed" nicely achieves this requirement.
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
_Sublime_Skywalker_
Registered:
May '04
|
Date Posted:
1/22 10:28am
Subject:
RE: Why is there a 1 year gap between TESB and ROTJ?
|
|
I was thinking about this from the time line point of view. Wouldn't saving Han from Jabba's palace be first on their priority list? Why did it take Bobba so long to get Han to Jabba?
-----signature-----
'You don't know the Power of the Darkside!'-Darth Vader
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
