Vortigern99 posted:It appears to me that in the end, this is a perfectly subjective question with evidence for any and all conclusions, based on one's personal feelings and perceptions. I enjoy imagining a several-year gap, whereas others prefer a couple of weeks. There is nothing solid in the films to refute any particular timeline we might choose to imagine.
Vortigern99 posted:Your conclusions are not baseless, zombie, and neither are mine. On my side we have 3PO's comment that "Lando and Chewbacca never returned from that awful place," indicating that some time has passed; and the fact that Yoda has grown aged and sickly since Luke left. It isn't concrete evidence, I grant that, but neither is your feeling, based largely on the intent of the characters at the end of ESB, concrete.
Vortigern99 posted:In the end, as I said before, we're entitled to our own thinking on the matter, since the films do not establish a definite timeline one way or another, and as far as I know Lucas has never clarified the issue in an interview or commentary.
Nordom posted: 3PO's comments are odd becasue a) Chewbacca had never gone there as we see Leia bring him there later and there is no mention of him being there before. And b) the timeframe one gets could be 1-2 weeks, hardly 1-2 years. Since Yoda is already quite old in ESB, going from 800 to 801 is hardly significant but neither is 800 to 803. Sickness can come quite quickly, 2-3 weeks for an illness to weaken you hardly sounds far fetched. Vortigern99 posted:In the end, as I said before, we're entitled to our own thinking on the matter, since the films do not establish a definite timeline one way or another, and as far as I know Lucas has never clarified the issue in an interview or commentary. Both scenarios cause problems, if a little time has passed then the Yoda issue that you brought up, Luke's much greater power and further the DS2 could also make you wonder. If we have 1-2 years then we have questions what Lando, Chewbacca, Luke and the others were doing while Han suffered or why Luke did not go back to Yoda for more training and to find out if Vader was his father. ESB ends with the heroes imideatly going off to rescue Han and RotJ opens with them doing just that so it makes it seem like a very short time has passed. Regards Nordom
Vortigern99 posted: * 3PO's comment that Lando and Chewie "never returned"
Vortigern posted:* Luke is more powerful and confident, and has "constructed a new light saber"
vortigern posted:* Yoda is sick and close to death
vortigern posted:* The DS2 is being built, and is in fact "fully armed and operational" (the opening scroll tells us the Empire "has secretly begun construction", indicating that this has occurred between ESB and ROTJ)
vortigern posted:* The characters are all visibly older by several years
zombie posted:Going through the reasons: Vortigern99 posted: * 3PO's comment that Lando and Chewie "never returned" Since we later discover that Chewie actually hadn't been there, this then indicates that 3P0 is simply in the dark, as usual. R2 knows whats going on, but 3P0 genuinely has no idea of "the plan" (witness him freaking out at Luke's message), and believes that Chewie went to Jabba's palace, when in reality he had dissappeared with Leia so as to feign a bounty and bounty hunter. In any event, this has nothing to do with a 1 year passage of time--3P0 could believe that Chewie and Lando went to Jabbas palace a week or two earlier and never came back. Heck, he could believe they went there two days earlier and never came back. Theres no specific chronology to be gathered from this.
zombie posted:Vortigern posted:* Luke is more powerful and confident, and has "constructed a new light saber" We've been over the lightsaber thing before. He makes out of instructions (and possibly parts?) found in Ben's hut. As the film starts he has just completed it. Again, how long does it take to make a lightsaber? A week or two I would think. True that Luke's personality has matured, but after his experience on Bespin how could he not be? You can see in the end of ESB while he is onboard the Falcon during the escape that he looks almost shell-shocked. An experience like that will make you grow up real fast. Furthermore, if you propose that Luke has been not rescuing Han, then why doesn't he return to Dagobah until a year later? Whereas if the timeline is only a few weeks then he immediately begins the process of rescuing Han and then as soon as thats done returns to Yoda to complete his training as promised.
zombie posted:vortigern posted:* Yoda is sick and close to death This is the only real strike against the short timeline because it seems "out of nowehere". But as was pointed out, a few weeks is not that unreasonable to develop a fatal illness. I have a much simpler explanation--just as in the one-year timeline, its clumsey writing. And again, if its a year later and Luke just got around to rescuing Han--why hadn't he returned to Yoda? Especially if you believe he has so improved his skill as a Jedi--returning to his training, or at least stopping by, would be his first priority, especially since it was his big promise.
zombie posted:vortigern posted:* The DS2 is being built, and is in fact "fully armed and operational" (the opening scroll tells us the Empire "has secretly begun construction", indicating that this has occurred between ESB and ROTJ) Since there are many years between ANH and ESB/ROTJ this indicates very little; why would the Empire wait three years (ANH-ESB) before beginning it? To me its much more rational that it was begun after ANH--its not until ROTJ that the Rebels discover it. In the official timeline provided by LFL the Empire begins construction of DSII after ANH, not ESB.
zombie posted:vortigern posted:* The characters are all visibly older by several years Since the actors are older this is merely the practical effect of reality; they can't not look older. If Lucas had intended for ROTJ to take place shortly after ESB, even if it was one day later, the cast would still be three years older because it takes three years to make a Star Wars film. So this isn't proof of anything. If you adhere to this logic then the film doens't take place one year later as you propose but three years.
zombie posted:So in the end what are you really left with? A 800 year-old that gets a terminal illness in a few weeks, which is not exactly out there. As I said, thats just convenient plotting no matter how long afterwards ROTJ is.
morpha2 posted:Not trying to rain on your parade; I can certainly see your way of thinking, too. To me, the new Death Star is the major mitigating circumstance--based on the verbiage about it in the opening crawl and the state of construction its in, it gives me pause enough to think that the time between ESB and ROTJ could be great indeed.
