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Topic:
The Force and lifespan in the OT
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Nanite
Registered:
Jan '08
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Date Posted:
2/1 7:55pm
Subject:
The Force and lifespan in the OT
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Now obviously this question has been answered totally by the PT, but I'm still curious if I was being weird, or if others shared my mistaken belief. I am *not* in any way saying that this belief is still valid. The belief being, that force sensitivity had an effect on lifespan. I have a couple of quotes from the OT that lead me to believe that. First of all is the conversation between Vader and Tarkin when Vader senses Obi-Wan. Tarkin says something like "surely he's dead by now?" and Vader replies "Don't underestimate the Force!" which might lead one to believe that the force can extend life. Also, Luke says to Yoda "Master Yoda, you can't die!" to which Yoda replies, "Strong am I with the Force, but not that strong."
Obviously this is not so. Ben looks awful for a 57 year old. Qui Gon looks pretty good for 60, but not exactly like Dick Clark  . Just curious if anyone else, before the PT came out thought the same, or if I'm just weird/reading too much into a couple lines.
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timmoishere
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
2/1 8:45pm
Subject:
RE: The Force and lifespan in the OT
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When Tarkin said "surely he must be dead by now," he wasn't referring to Obi-Wan's age. Rather, he was referring to the Jedi Purge. Tarkin had assumed that one of the Jedi hunters would have found Obi-Wan and killed him by now.
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zombie
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
2/1 8:55pm
Subject:
RE: The Force and lifespan in the OT
- Date Edited:
2/1 8:58pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
zombie
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Well, you might have a point there, Nanite. Though the current configuration of the series contradicts many aspects of this, the original portrayal was that Obi Wan was roughly 75; nothing too extreme, I suppose, but its true that Tarkin believes he had died through natural causes. I never really paid attention to Vader's line, but its true that he seems to be saying that the Force might have a hand in extending Ben's age. I suppose its the old adage that the powerful can never die, which is why Luke is surprised to find that Yoda is at deaths door.
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
2/1 9:26pm
Subject:
RE: The Force and lifespan in the OT
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zombie posted:
I never really paid attention to Vader's line, but its true that he seems to be saying that the Force might have a hand in extending Ben's age.
Not necessarily. He could merely be saying that Obi-Wan could have escaped being killed due to his skill with the Force.
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VadersLaMent
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
2/2 6:34am
Subject:
RE: The Force and lifespan in the OT
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Vader could mean one of two things or perhaps both for a nice double meaning.
1. Being a Force wielder keeps you healthy, and staying healthy will help you live longer.
2. Vader, Palpatine, Plaugas(sp), and the Sith in general seek immortality or power over death. Vader may not be indicating that Kenobi found such a power but he is keeping the idea in mind when he says that line to Tarkin.
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
2/4 7:49am
Subject:
RE: The Force and lifespan in the OT
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My assumption on first viewing was always that Tarkin meant:
"Obi-Wan? But he'd be ancient now - surely he must be dead!"
The idea that he's referring to Jedi Hunters doesn't work as well because, well, the Empire would know if Obi-Wan had been taken down by a Jedi Hunter.
I also figured that the reason Yoda was so old was down to his strength in the Force, mainly because - when Luke says, "Master Yoda, you can't die", Yoda's response is "strong am I with the Force, but not that strong".
Of course, yeah, this has been thrown out of the window completely by the PT. I'm not really that fussed.
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Darth_Davi
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
2/4 9:16am
Subject:
RE: The Force and lifespan in the OT
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However, given a Jedi's training regimen, you could argue that while the Force doesn't directly extend one's life, it does allow someone to live longer through its effects on their body. A Jedi is going to be in top physical shape, which would greatly increase their quality of life as they aged. It would also be able to combat the normal effects of aging, as a Jedi could conceivably use the Force to keep their brains in perfect working order, so a disease like Alzheimers or simple elderly senility would not affect them. The Force would allow them to combat infections better, which would also lengthen their lifespan, nor are the Jedi going to be particularly prone to certain vices, such as death sticks. Basically, because of their Force powers and physical training, I imagine that Jedi are far healthier than a non-Force using human of the same age. If the life expectancy of an American human male is approximately 73 years, I would expect Jedi human males to routinely live in their 90s. (using our life expectancy rules, not GFFA rules). The Force cannot stave off death forever, but I can see how a Jedi would be able to surpass others in life expectancy...because they stay healthier for longer.
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SheaHublin
Registered:
Feb '08
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Date Posted:
2/16 1:59pm
Subject:
RE: The Force and lifespan in the OT
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I always figured Obi-Wan's appearance in ANH was due to his living on Tatooine for almost 20 years. The same for Owen and Beru, who in ROTS look far younger than their appearance in ANH would indicate.
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Darth_Davi
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
2/16 4:03pm
Subject:
RE: The Force and lifespan in the OT
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this is true too...living on Tatooine certainly couldn't be considered easy living...Moisture farmers live a hard life in a harsh environment...I can see how that would make someone look older than they actually were...
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What the hell is an Aluminium Falcon?
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a thermal exhaust port thats only two meters wide!
It wasn't even fully paid off yet!
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voodoopuuduu
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
2/18 9:26pm
Subject:
RE: The Force and lifespan in the OT
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SheaHublin posted:
I always figured Obi-Wan's appearance in ANH was due to his living on Tatooine for almost 20 years. The same for Owen and Beru, who in ROTS look far younger than their appearance in ANH would indicate.
Yep, we know that now. But upon my first viewing, I thought Ben was way older than 57, more like 75.
I also figured that the reason Yoda was so old was down to his strength in the Force, mainly because - when Luke says, "Master Yoda, you can't die", Yoda's response is "strong am I with the Force, but not that strong".
Of course, yeah, this has been thrown out of the window completely by the PT. I'm not really that fussed.
I also originally thought that Yodas great age was due to the Force. But until he said he was 900 years old, I didnt think he looked as old as Obi-Wan. 
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_Sublime_Skywalker_
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
2/19 11:37am
Subject:
RE: The Force and lifespan in the OT
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When Tarkin says "Surely he must be dead" and Vader replies "Do not underestimate the force."
He's talking about his owning sensing, telling Tarkin he knows what he feels.
Yoda's quote "Strong in the force I am, but not that strong" I always figured referred to the fact that he may be a strong warrior, and experienced with using the force, but there are somethings no one can change and no one can fight. Example being death.
Like Darth Davi said, the force extends like in a certain point of view. The meditation bringing calmness and eliminating stress, physical shape,etc...
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FutureEmperor
Registered:
Jul '98
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Date Posted:
7/14 3:13pm
Subject:
RE: The Force and lifespan in the OT
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I always got the impression that while Yoda's species probably lived a long time but that he lived a LOT longer due to his connection to the Force and the Emperor being the most powerful Dark Side user also extended his life for some time beyond what would have been natural for a human.
In my 'personal canon,' that's exactly the case.
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jedi_master_ousley
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
7/14 4:55pm
Subject:
RE: The Force and lifespan in the OT
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Obi-Wan "disappeared" for twenty years, so it seems unlikely anyone in the Empire would take him to still be alive. Perhaps Vader was unable to sense him through the Force (until he boarded the Death Star and allowed himself to be "sensed") and thus also thought he could have died by that time.
As far as Yoda goes, I've taken that to mean that he can do many powerful things with the Force, but stopping death is not one of those things. In fact, that makes sense in light of the PT, with Anakin being so intense on finding a way to stop death - Yoda wants to make sure Luke knows that it is impossible.
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DarthButt
Title: Manager
• Classic Trilogy
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
7/14 6:27pm
Subject:
RE: The Force and lifespan in the OT
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... or that Luke couldn't do it without succumbing to the dark side. Perhaps Yoda may know if it's acheivable, but the risk for a Jedi is too great. It could be percieved that greed/selfishness could be the motivation for wanting to stay alive for so long.
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_Sublime_Skywalker_
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
7/14 9:28pm
Subject:
RE: The Force and lifespan in the OT
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When Vader says "Do not underestimate the power of the force" I'm pretty sure he means he can sense ben clearly, and he knows its him. Yoda's line I think relates to the PT, where even though he is powerful within the force, theres nothing that can truely prolong death.
Obi Wan looks awful for 57 because simply, Alec was older. Lucas really screwed up with the aging. I mean, why was Obi Wan *still* a padawan at 25, when he was already quite the Jedi in TPM.
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Seremela
Registered:
Jul '08
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Date Posted:
7/18 1:21pm
Subject:
RE: The Force and lifespan in the OT
- Date Edited:
7/18 1:23pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Seremela
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This is about the one thing I have the most problem with in Star Wars, the timeline of the movies.
In the OT that's what I get too: Obi-Wan and Yoda are old, very old, like Vader and the Emperor they come from before the Empire, from the ancient times of the Republic. And it's due to the power of the Force that they are still around, they are in tune with it and one thing it does is prolonge their life.
The Jedi, in the OT, are almost a legend. Hense the attitude towards Vader by Tarkin and such that he hangs onto ancient superstituous mumblejumble. And the rebels using 'may the Force be with you' in a way that indicates they don't really know what they're talking about. And nobody seems to know what a Jedi really can do, they are the stuff of legends.
So... then Vader says to Luke "I'm your father" and how did this evil machine man manage to get kids? Uh oh - that happened before his fall? And his fall is connected with the rise of the Empire??? That suddenly brings the whole timeline between the fall of the Republic and the firmly established Empire in the OT back to a mere pitifull 20 years!! And the PT very much confirms that.
After 20 years, everybody would still know the Jedi; they were too powerful and daunting in what they could do to have become stories instead of real memories. People would still know about the Force and what it is wouldn't have fallen into obscurity. What Vader is and can do would be known. After only twenty years many planets would still be recuperating from the war and how awful it had been would still be fresh in everybody's memories.
In essence the stories fit and yes, yes, I know, it's never actually stated that the Empire was old and the Jedi so far back in history that they had become more legend than fact - but to me the feeling is off, because that was the feeling the OT gave me, especially in ANH: that the Jedi, the Clone Wars and all that was way, way, waaay back in the past. And then it turns out that the war and the dissapearance of the Jedi had only just happened.
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