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Topic:
Did Yoda Give Up On Luke?
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Chiss_Insight
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
3/10 2:11pm
Subject:
Did Yoda Give Up On Luke?
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During a recent viewing of ESB, it appears that Yoda has hardly a moment where he is satisfied with Luke as a student of the Force. During this umpteenth viewing, Luke really did strike me as a bad student, based on Yoda's previous experience. I know that Degobah was not the Jedi Temple and Yoda should not have been expecting things to be like old times, but do you think Yoda was as disappointed with Luke as he looked? Do you think after he says to Force Ghost Ben, "No. There is another", he followed that up with, "So that kid was your whole plan? We waited twenty years, me in this swamp and you in the Bakersfield, California of the Star Wars Universe for this? We put all of our stock in this kid? He's the one we've been waiting on?"
I am being a bit sarcastic, (no offense to any Bakersfieldians out there) but I seriously want to know:
When Luke flew off for Bespin, did Yoda consider him a failure as a student? Had Yoda given up on him?
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_Sublime_Skywalker_
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
3/10 6:08pm
Subject:
RE: Did Yoda Give Up On Luke?
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Luke would have technically failed as the traditional Jedi. With no discipline and with too much emotion to be like the old jedi's. However that was technically not a bad thing.
Yoda was used to the very proper traditional padawans and apprentices, Luke was a normal man. Where most Jedi would say Yoda was right and remain on Dagobah to complete their training, Luke was overconfident and had grown attatched to his friends. He would rather save them then be ready for the mental battle he was about to go on.
I think Yoda was more dissapointed in Luke, because he lacked the ability to put his training first as a jedi should. However he never gave up on him, he just thought he could've been more reasonable.
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Darth_Hoser
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
3/11 1:29am
Subject:
RE: Did Yoda Give Up On Luke?
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I dont think that Yoda was dissapointed in Luke's actions, but with Luke himself. He was young, brash and trigger happy, and Yoda knew this and I think he expected Luke to run off to save his friends. I think that Yoda was more dissapointed that he was more or less all they had to work with to take down the Sith.
I think its kinda funny that Yoda told Obi-wan that there "is another" as Luke was lifting off to go save Leia, who happen to be the "other" Yoda spoke of. Do you think Yoda knew that Leia would make it out of Bespin safely, or did he not realize that it was her who Luke was rushing off to save and therefore had oblivious of her peril? What if Vader had killed Luke or Leia then turned the other to the Dark Side, man would Yoda be pissed off then.
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Shrapnel
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
3/11 10:40am
Subject:
RE: Did Yoda Give Up On Luke?
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It's clear when you watch the OT that Ben's plan is to train Luke as a Jedi and send him to kill Vader and Sidious. But was it Yoda's plan? I doubt it.
I always thought that, under de POV of Yoda, Luke was never meant to defeat the Sith and save the day. Is it a good plan to hide for 20 years to wait that newborns will grow up and go destroy what the Jedi themselves couldn't? To many unknown elements. How do they know that Luke or Leia will grow up healthy and strong in the Force? They could be killed in accident or by disease. How could they simply be sure that the twins will even care about the Jedi-Sith thing? ("My daddy is the second in command in the Galaxy, lives in palaces with wealth and everything? Cool, I wanna join him. So long Uncle Owen, you go to Toshi Station yourself, I'm outha here!"). Not very reliable.
Also, I never thought that Leia was the "other one" that he talked about to OB1 (Ben was there when the twins were born, how could he forget Leia when he said that Luke was their only hope?). The other one, is Anakin himself buried deep inside Vader, but still there.
In AOTC and ROTS, it seems that Yoda cares for Anakin. He doesn't try to confront him like OB1 does. Sure he gives him bad advice (like to not care for the ones he loves die), but overall, he seems to know what is happening to Anakin, that he is slipping away. When Anakin uses the dark side (like Tusken slaughter), we get to see that Yoda is aware of it. Yet, there is no sign that he takes Anakin apart and tries to punish him. Even after Anakin became Vader, Yoda seemed to respect Anakin as he was a victim that had to be helped ("Your padawan is no longer, replaced by this Sith Lord"). On the other side, Ob1 is never easy on him as a master, and after he left him for dead on Mustafar, he hates him (how he tells "More machine than man").
So OB1 wants Vader and Sidious killed by Luke (not very Jedi-like, but the job as to be done). On the other hand, I think that Yoda always knew that the end of the Sith could only come from the chosen one, Anakin buried inside Vader. But Yoda knew that for Anakin to come back and destroy Vader and Sidious needed a spark. Knowing how Anakin feel about saving to ones he loves (they spent time together discussing about that), that spark was Luke. So the plan is to use Luke as a bait for Anakin to come out of Vader.
When Luke leaves for Bespin, it is too early. Yoda isn't sure how Vader or Luke will react, or even if Vader knows about Luke. As far as he knows, Vader could kill him right there unaware that he is his son, and the plan could fall apart. Still, there may be a chance of success, that is why he believes that Anakin is the last chance to destroy the Sith. It's close to be hopeless, but there is still hope that Anakin could re-emerge somehow. But in ROTJ, when he learns that Vader knows, he now tells Luke to go confront him (not destroy him). He knows that Vader won't kill him, but Sidious will try. Then Anakin could come back and destroy the Sith, like he was suppose to from the beginning.
So to me, he didn't lose faith on Luke, his faith is in Anakin. Luke is only a tool that has to be used wisely.
Just my humble opinion
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AnakinSucks
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
3/11 11:55am
Subject:
RE: Did Yoda Give Up On Luke?
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My opinion is that Yoda was genuinely confused.
Did he think that Anakin was the only player that could "fix" things?
Who knows? Lucas perhaps.
It looked to me like he had given up hope.
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_Sublime_Skywalker_
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
3/11 9:44pm
Subject:
RE: Did Yoda Give Up On Luke?
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Darth_Hoser posted:
Do you think Yoda knew that Leia would make it out of Bespin safely, or did he not realize that it was her who Luke was rushing off to save and therefore had oblivious of her peril? What if Vader had killed Luke or Leia then turned the other to the Dark Side, man would Yoda be pissed off then.
Yoda knew Leia was in danger, because Luke says "Sacrifice Han and Leia?". I think Yoda was smart enough to know Vader had no use for Leia and Han after ANH, other than to bait Luke to come to him. There always ways the danger of Leia being killed anywaise, and Luke possibly falling to the darkside due to his attatchment... then yoda would be super PO'D.
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MasterEric
Registered:
Dec '07
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Date Posted:
3/11 9:55pm
Subject:
RE: Did Yoda Give Up On Luke?
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Recently I come to think along the lines of what fellow member Shrapnel posted. Still undecided but I've started to lean more toward that direction. My impression had always been that Yoda knew something Obi-wan/Ben didn't or something like that. No real reason/evidence, just watching the films that is the feeling I get. He just seems "wiser", perhaps its the facial expressions combined with what he says.
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xx_Anakin_xx
Registered:
Jan '08
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Date Posted:
3/12 12:22am
Subject:
RE: Did Yoda Give Up On Luke?
- Date Edited:
3/12 12:23am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
xx_Anakin_xx
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I agree. Yoda said "unexpected this is" when Luke told him that Vader had revealed he was his father. It wouldn't be unexpected to Yoda that Vader would try to turn Luke to the Dark Side - that is why he kept Luke away in the first place.
What may have been unexpected was that Vader told Luke during their first real encounter (EU aside - since it hadn't been written yet). It would have been more logical to suck Luke in with the whole anger/force thing first, let him discover the quick road to power, and then in a tantalizing moment reveal he was his dad to win him over. So maybe Yoda felt that Vader's quick admission was telling - as if the son had awakened something in the father.
Just a guess, but Yoda then went on to tell Luke about Leia, so it further confuses things. Maybe he felt the two of them were the key to bringing Anakin forth? Maybe his vision after so many years was still nagging him with respect to the 'chosen one' and he knew Luke wasn't it - yet there was only 1 Jedi - 1 hopeful and 1 Sith wiht a Jedi buried inside. Maybe he was in a way offering all alternatives?
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BigBoy29
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
3/12 2:56am
Subject:
RE: Did Yoda Give Up On Luke?
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DID YODA GIVE UP ON LUKE?
Short answer is "Yes" with an IF.
Long answer is "No" with a BUT.
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Lando: "She was mine before she was yours, she was mine before she was yours ..."
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voodoopuuduu
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
3/13 8:35pm
Subject:
RE: Did Yoda Give Up On Luke?
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_Sublime_Skywalker_ posted:
Darth_Hoser posted:
Do you think Yoda knew that Leia would make it out of Bespin safely, or did he not realize that it was her who Luke was rushing off to save and therefore had oblivious of her peril? What if Vader had killed Luke or Leia then turned the other to the Dark Side, man would Yoda be pissed off then.
Yoda knew Leia was in danger, because Luke says "Sacrifice Han and Leia?". I think Yoda was smart enough to know Vader had no use for Leia and Han after ANH, other than to bait Luke to come to him. There always ways the danger of Leia being killed anywaise, and Luke possibly falling to the darkside due to his attatchment... then yoda would be super PO'D.
I disagree. I dont think Yoda or Obi-Wan knew it was THAT Leia. Leia was a fairly common name. Luke didnt say Leia Organa.
Ironically, if Luke had said Han and Leia and Chewbacca, then Yoda may have perked up his ears. 
"BEN: That is why your friends are made to suffer."
If Obi-Wan knew it was THAT Leia, then I dont think he would have used that line.
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Dark Lady Mara
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '99
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Date Posted:
3/14 12:19am
Subject:
RE: Did Yoda Give Up On Luke?
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First, I think they could safely assume which Leia it was based on the fact that they had some involvement with the Rebellion and they knew the Leia they were supposed to be watching was a prominent figure in the movement and therefore likely to be someone Luke knew.
Second, how do we know Leia was that common a name? Is this speculation, or do we really know it's the GFFA version of Jennifer?
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Darth_Hoser
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
3/14 12:41am
Subject:
RE: Did Yoda Give Up On Luke?
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I think its hard to tell if Leia was a common name or not. The galaxy is so big, and there are so many different species that it would be hard to say that a certain name is more popular then any other seeing as how there are countless names in the SW universe. I could be wrong, but I don't even think there are 2 characters in the movies or EU who share a first name.
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nancyallen
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
3/14 5:17am
Subject:
RE: Did Yoda Give Up On Luke?
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Tough love perhaps? Maybe Yoda thought 'alright, we'll do it your way' and given that Luke does get pwned, and basically where he has to be rescued by the people he came to rescue, there might be a bit of humiliation in that. If things weren't so dire I might even suggest Yoda could see this and the mischievous side of him would have used it all as part of Luke's training.
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_Sublime_Skywalker_
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
3/14 7:51pm
Subject:
RE: Did Yoda Give Up On Luke?
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Also Ben pretty much introduced Leia and Luke informally.
Even though he's a hermit by the time of ANH, I'm sure he still figured Princess Leia was the little baby Bail adopted.
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voodoopuuduu
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
3/14 7:59pm
Subject:
RE: Did Yoda Give Up On Luke?
- Date Edited:
3/14 8:04pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
voodoopuuduu
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Dark Lady Mara posted:
First, I think they could safely assume which Leia it was based on the fact that they had some involvement with the Rebellion and they knew the Leia they were supposed to be watching was a prominent figure in the movement and therefore likely to be someone Luke knew.
Second, how do we know Leia was that common a name? Is this speculation, or do we really know it's the GFFA version of Jennifer?
With 20,000 star systems and countless trillions represented in the GFFA Senate , do you really think Padme is creative enough to come up with unique names, like Luke and Leia ? 
Also, nobody in the trilogies saw the spelling of Leia. There are many, many ways to come up with the same basic sound, like Lee-ahh, Liiah, etc. That multiplies the commonality of the name.
There is no way they knew it was THAT Leia that Luke was referring to. Otherwise these lines cant make sense :
BEN: That boy is our last hope.
YODA: (looks up) No. There is another.
Ben didnt say, "but Master Yoda, shes the one Luke is going to Bespin to save".
Otherwise to make sense, we have to resort to the Shroom theory.
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T-R-
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
3/15 8:51am
Subject:
RE: Did Yoda Give Up On Luke?
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The problem is some lines will never make sense because they refer to ideas that were changed as the story developed from movie to movie. It's the same as Ben saying Yoda was the Jedi master who instructed me. Originally Yoda was to be Ben's master, but come the prequels Jinn trained Ben, while Yoda teaches every jedi student en masse.
They knew which Leia it was. Last time Ben was alive Luke and Han were rescuing Leia, so if Luke says Han and Leia they could figure it out. Not to mention that Ben as a force ghost could probably check in on events around the galaxy.
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