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Topic:
Anyone prefer the original (Clive Revill) Emperor?
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drg4
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
3/18 8:34pm
Subject:
Anyone prefer the original (Clive Revill) Emperor?
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Like everyone else, I loved McDiarmid’s work in the prequels. But, as blasphemous as it sounds, I’m not a fan of his Emperor.
It could be argued that Return of the Jedi is primarily a children’s film, and one of the best indicators of this lies with the character of its principal villain—-cut from the same obsidian cloth as the Queen, as she appears in the finale of Snow White. The disposition, the garb, the incessant cackling…I keep waiting for him to break out into song. A bit innocuous for my taste. What’s more, he doesn’t really have anything interesting to say, just variations on "Give into your hate." After a while, he comes across as the Used Car Salesman of the Dark Side.
Until the release of TPM, I considered this broad figure an imposter, next to the “real” Emperor we saw for all of one minute in TESB: the Clive Revill-voiced, crone-simian amalgam. There wasn’t anything Disney-esque about him; the closest cinematic analogue I can come up with is David Bowie’s Pilate from The Last Temptation of Christ. Very understated, very interior, very much the boss of Darth Vader. What’s interesting is that his constitution seemed patterned after the Jedi: his voice as stately as Obi-Wan’s, his mien as alien as Yoda’s. He had a mystique. Even though I didn’t know the circumstances of Anakin Skywalker’s conversion, I understood what made it possible...because he met up with this guy. This guy could convert anyone. He’s the Devil. And I would’ve loved to see Luke confront this Devil in an entirely different context, where he's victim to a truly soul-wrenching temptation.
When Yoda promises, “You will be [afraid]…you will be,” I suspect he’s alluding to this Emperor. The one who dwells not in Coruscant, but in the pits of Hell.
Makes me wonder.
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General Kenobi
Title: Comms Admin
SW & Film Music
Classic Trilogy
Registered:
Dec '98
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Date Posted:
3/18 8:51pm
Subject:
RE: Anyone prefer the original (Clive Revill) Emperor?
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I don't know. Luke couldn't really confront a hologram in ROTJ, now could he?
I think inserting Ian into ESB was limited somewhat by the original scene. Some of Ian's dialog there is superior; some of his lines sound forced compared to Revill's.
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drg4
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
3/18 8:59pm
Subject:
RE: Anyone prefer the original (Clive Revill) Emperor?
- Date Edited:
3/18 9:02pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
drg4
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No, he couldn't confront a hologram, but shadow is a fantasy filmmaker's best friend.
After managing Yoda, it'd be child's play...
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Dark Lady Mara
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '99
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Date Posted:
3/18 9:09pm
Subject:
RE: Anyone prefer the original (Clive Revill) Emperor?
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Shadow is also a horror filmmaker's best friend. The more mysterious Palpatine's character appeared (both literally and figuratively), the more effective it was, which I think was what made the brief glimpse of the emperor in ESB interesting.
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zombie
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
3/18 9:20pm
Subject:
RE: Anyone prefer the original (Clive Revill) Emperor?
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I thought the original ESB was awesome. He was mysterious and scary looking, but you weren't quite sure what he even was--and the voice! It was ageless and soothing but sinister and unsettling at the same time. I love the original Emperor. I'm kind of disasppointed that Lucas eventually went with a Wicked-Witch-of-the-West take in ROTJ because the original vision that Kershner presented was highly effective. But it helps that its just this hologram; i guess its difficult to maintain that illusion when you have 1/4 of the movie involving him in the flesh walking around the Death Star.
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author of The Secret History of Star Wars http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com
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deepbluejedi
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
3/19 7:42am
Subject:
RE: Anyone prefer the original (Clive Revill) Emperor?
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I like the original to a point.....the monkey face is a bit weird, but I actually don't mind the change for the ESB dvd.
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Hoaxer_Poker
Registered:
Mar '08
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Date Posted:
3/19 9:50am
Subject:
RE: Anyone prefer the original (Clive Revill) Emperor?
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The monkey face is part of the charm, it's what makes him so great and stand out! I definately prefer him over Ian McDiarmid's, but I also love his version of the emperor in Return Of The Jedi. I love Clive Revill's macabre voice.
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Chiss_Insight
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
3/19 11:52am
Subject:
RE: Anyone prefer the original (Clive Revill) Emperor?
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The original ESB Emperor is so mysterious. The only problem that I see is that I never associate the original ESB Palps with age. He looks youthful and strong in some supernatural way. He is very menacing. Then we get to ROTJ, and the question becomes, "What happened to Palps?" He looks old!
I am going to ask the same question that I asked on another thread: Does anyone else out there think that the SE ESB/Episode III Emperor doesn't match up with the ROTJ Emperor? In SE ESB, the voice matches and the idea of the character (old withered looking dude in a hood) match, but I don't think Ian looks much like he ends up in ROTJ, which is not long after ESB. In ROTS, especially in the fight with Yoda, I just don't think Palps looks like Palps. Again, the idea of the character is there and it's decades before ROTJ, but there is just too much of a difference for me. Anyone else see what am I mean, or am I alone in this opinion?
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zombie
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
3/19 1:24pm
Subject:
RE: Anyone prefer the original (Clive Revill) Emperor?
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Thats been a common observation Chiss, you are definitely not alone. The makeup doesn't match, though the idea gets across that its supposed to.
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author of The Secret History of Star Wars http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com
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HemDazon90
Registered:
Mar '08
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Date Posted:
3/19 1:50pm
Subject:
RE: Anyone prefer the original (Clive Revill) Emperor?
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he is pretty damn scary in the hologram
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"Young fool. Only now, at the end, do you understand. Your feeble skills are no match for the power of the dark side. You have paid the price for your lack of vision. Now, young Skywalker, you will die."
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HemDazon90
Registered:
Mar '08
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Date Posted:
3/19 1:54pm
Subject:
RE: Anyone prefer the original (Clive Revill) Emperor?
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(no message)
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"Young fool. Only now, at the end, do you understand. Your feeble skills are no match for the power of the dark side. You have paid the price for your lack of vision. Now, young Skywalker, you will die."
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voodoopuuduu
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
3/19 2:03pm
Subject:
RE: Anyone prefer the original (Clive Revill) Emperor?
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Chiss you are definitely not alone.
As far as better or worse goes, eh, its only a short skit.
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Winner CT Trivia Challenge 44, Winner PT Trivia Challenge 10 , 13, 14
Joint-Winner CT Trivia Challenge 49 and 50
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BaronLandoCalrissian
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
3/19 3:57pm
Subject:
RE: Anyone prefer the original (Clive Revill) Emperor?
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The original emperor has a fascinating similarity to Obi-Wan to me. Almost like he's the dark version of Ben. I wonder if that's where they were leaning at the time.(Count Dooku ended up kinda like that)
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zombie
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
3/19 4:13pm
Subject:
RE: Anyone prefer the original (Clive Revill) Emperor?
- Date Edited:
3/19 4:14pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
zombie
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BaronLandoCalrissian posted:
The original emperor has a fascinating similarity to Obi-Wan to me. Almost like he's the dark version of Ben. I wonder if that's where they were leaning at the time.(Count Dooku ended up kinda like that)
It's funny you should mention that. Mark Hamill seemed to suspect that the Emperor and Obi Wan were clones left over from the Clone War because they seemed so similar.
Mark Hamill says to Starlog in 1980:
"I remember very early on asking who my parents were and being told that my father and Obi-Wan met Vader on the edge of a volcano and they had a duel…Now I wonder if it's true? I mean, there are so many things. For example, remember the Clone Wars? They could have cloned my father...But changes are inevitable, and Darth Vader is a good example of changing a character to please the people. I think, originally, if you follow classic drama, I would have to kill him in the third episode. But now he's a cult figure and, in a way, George may not want to do away with him. Ultimately, the Emperor should be the main bad guy - someone you try to get through nine movies, and in the ninth one you succeed… There has got to be something to the fact that he looks and sounds a bit like Obi Wan.’ ”
Revill does have that sort of calming, paternal (as McGregor described Guinness once) quality to his voice, and he's an elderly, cloaked Force-user. Its probably just coincidence, of course. I believe Revill is British, like Guiness, but it sounds like he was trying to put on a more neutral voice. Its a chilling effect when its combined with the face, perhaps for the very reason that it doesn't match at all.
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Delorean_Kenobi
Registered:
Mar '03
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Date Posted:
3/20 6:45am
Subject:
RE: Anyone prefer the original (Clive Revill) Emperor?
- Date Edited:
3/20 6:49am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Delorean_Kenobi
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This thread has really made me re-evaluate Clive Revill's original Emperor.
I've always been a fan of Iain McDiarmid's portayal of the Emperor (especially his work in the prequels - the Darth Plagius speech alone was brilliantly played) but I do agree with the point of Clive Revill's voice making his character sound more like the darkside's answer to Obi-Wan. I think his voice has that edge to it that makes him sound more dangerous.
As for the previous comment about Iain's prequel and SE ESB versions not matching up with the ROTJ Emperor - I thought the moment in the scene where he bestows the title of Darth Vader on Anakin and then puts the hood over his head was when I thought "There he is. There's the Emperor!"
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General Kenobi
Title: Comms Admin
SW & Film Music
Classic Trilogy
Registered:
Dec '98
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Date Posted:
3/20 7:10am
Subject:
RE: Anyone prefer the original (Clive Revill) Emperor?
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Yeah, I remember reading that, zombie, back in the days when I subscribed to Starlog.
Lots of speculation back then about the Emperor, the "other", and so on. Too bad we didn't have the JC back then. Actually, it's probably good that we didn't, or I might not have passed the 7th grade.
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