voodoopuuduu posted:

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To understand Obi-Wan's meaning, one must consider the situation and contex. He says what he does in reply to Vader's saying, "If you are not with me, you are my enemy." Vader is leaving no grey area, no room for compromise, in his thinking. He is unable to consider that a different point of view might also be equally true.


Considering the situation, Obi-Wan should have said something different, something like "No Anakin, Im your friend", instead of a reply that would anger Anakin.

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jedimasterbac posted:

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On the idea of the "absolutes" line, a lot of people say that Lucas just didn't know what he was talking about when he wrote that and he didn't realize he was writing an oxymoron. They then try to paint that as being one of the reasons he's an awful writer of dialogue. Lucas may not have intended it to be an oxymoron and he may have written it poorly in that context, but I think it shows a lot about Obi-Wan the character and I happen to disagree with the idea that it was a bad line. The whole idea of the transition between Episode III and Episode IV is that the Jedi realize that they were wrong in many regards and that the two main survivors, Yoda and Obi-Wan, need to learn the true way of the Force, mostly from Qui-Gon.

Even though they had nineteen years of study time under Qui-Gon, the Jedi didn't learn their lessons on absolutes until the end of ROTJ. Obi-Wan deals in another absolute, IMO, when he tells Luke that he basically either has to kill Vader or they lose. He leaves no room for a redemption. When Anakin is a ghost at the end and Obi-Wan is beaming with pride, to me that shows that he's learned his lesson on dealing in absolutes like that.

I think I just rambled and lost my point somewhere. If anyone finds it, please let me know.

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skyysoblue posted:

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These posts just seem ridiculous. Obi Wan says something while confronting Anakin who just turned against him and everyone decides that the line is a pure definition of what it means to be a Sith instead of a Jedi. The only thing I really remember about the line is the conservative republicans freaking out because they thought the line was put in the movie to be a shot at Bush and the Iraq war (just as Jedi use "blue" light sabers and sith use "red" light sabers a commentarty on the red and blue states in the last election).

The line is to be read in context of the conversation going on with Anakin turning on his best friend Obi Wan, his decision to change everything he believed in unconditionally without remorse was the "absolute" aspect of his thinking that indicated he had been influenced by the dark side and was a sith.


From what I have read, if Obi Wan went up to the bar and said "I only drink dark beer" someone on here would start screaming he was a sith.

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voodoopuuduu posted:

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If you're not with me, then you're my enemy," means that if your not "A" then your "B." That's an inccorect way of thinking because there could be C,D and Z.

So then Obi-Wan responds with "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" meaning that no one other than a Sith can do that.

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Arawn_Fenn posted:

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Obi-Wan was not becoming Sith-like. In fact, he fought defensively throughout the battle.

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DARTH_BELO posted:

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voodoopuuduu posted:

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To understand Obi-Wan's meaning, one must consider the situation and contex. He says what he does in reply to Vader's saying, "If you are not with me, you are my enemy." Vader is leaving no grey area, no room for compromise, in his thinking. He is unable to consider that a different point of view might also be equally true.


Considering the situation, Obi-Wan should have said something different, something like "No Anakin, Im your friend", instead of a reply that would anger Anakin.

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Now that you mention it, I do agree, that Obi-Wan could have definately tried much harder to turn Anakin back to good. Padme did really try, but it seemed Obi-Wan kind of just assumed it's "too late."

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SLR posted:

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DARTH_BELO posted:

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voodoopuuduu posted:

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To understand Obi-Wan's meaning, one must consider the situation and contex. He says what he does in reply to Vader's saying, "If you are not with me, you are my enemy." Vader is leaving no grey area, no room for compromise, in his thinking. He is unable to consider that a different point of view might also be equally true.


Considering the situation, Obi-Wan should have said something different, something like "No Anakin, Im your friend", instead of a reply that would anger Anakin.

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Now that you mention it, I do agree, that Obi-Wan could have definately tried much harder to turn Anakin back to good. Padme did really try, but it seemed Obi-Wan kind of just assumed it's "too late."

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This is one of the things that bothers me the most about ROTS. It is another example of Lucas ignoring the CT. In ROTJ, both Obi-Wan and Vader acknowledged Obi-Wan's attempt to try and turn Vader back to the light side.

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Jedi_of_Valor posted:

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But he did try to turn him, however little it may be. I don't think if I was in Kenobi's place I would have done different. I try to be realistic about things like that. Sometimes people just won;t change.

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