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Topic:
"I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
5/11 9:47pm
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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heathdaniel posted:
I disagree. I think Obi-Wan would have definitely recognized R[2] after all of those years. And Obi-Wan was very, very, very close with Anakin. I don't think it's out of the question to suggest that he would recognize the droid of his apprentice and someone he considered a brother.
It's not out of the question necessarily, it just doesn't happen. What cause would Kenobi have to deny recognizing R2? He has no motivation here.
Darth Dark Helmet posted:
I fall into the camp of people who thinks that Obi-Wan recognizes R2. The way he looks at R2 when Luke tells him he's looking for Obi-Wan Kenobi, to me looks like in his mind, a confirmation of who R2 is, and what it means that he's sought him out. And of course he doesn't tell Luke that he knows who and what R2 is, he probably doesn't even know everything he wants to tell Luke about his father, and what happened to him.
It's flatly preposterous to suggest that Lucas told Guiness that his character secretly knew who R2 was, and to only pretend like he didn't recognize him. There's no motivation for the character to do so, and Lucas had not fleshed out the events and characters enough to know whether Kenobi would have crossed paths with R2 a generation earlier.
General Kenobi posted:
Despite the lack of fleshed-out back story in 1977, Sir Alec plays it coyly enough that we are given pause at his denial. This moment is accentuated after the events of ROTS.
I for one am given no such pause at his denial, which strikes me as sincere and valid. ROTS had not been written and would not be for 25+ years. Lucas had a vague backstory that consisted of a few pages of notes; these did not include any mention of R2 or 3PO. One might argue for an "in-universe" recognition of R2 on Kenobi's part, but then the question of Ben's motivavtion in pretending not to know him comes into play.
General Kenobi posted:
There's the old "toaster argument", which says that most people wouldn't recognize an old appliance they owned twenty years ago. However, most would probably ascribe a higher personal attachment to a droid, perhaps more like a pet dog. Would you recognize your friend's loyal pet after twenty years?
In the PT, on several occasions Kenobi dismisses the relevance of droids. It seems that Lucas went out of his way to show us that Kenobi in his earlier years had little regard for robots. I do not believe, given the high number of astromech droids in the galaxy, that Kenobi would have recognized his padawan's robot -- which looks pretty much like every other "R2" model -- twenty years later. It strains credulity and, since there is no strong evidence that he did recognize the droid -- in fact, just the opposite is said -- I can only conclude that Kenobi is telling the truth when he says he doesn't remember R2.
General Kenobi posted:
Given the extraordinary events of ROTS, it's hard to believe that Obi-Wan wouldn't have recognized R2, especially given Luke's use of the name "Obi-Wan".
That's certainly when it all comes back to him -- that is, if we are to believe the look of wondering recall on his face, and the musical cue which tells us something magical is happening. It is here, and no earlier, that one may postulate an "in-universe" recognition of R2.
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I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
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voodoopuuduu
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
5/11 11:58pm
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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I can only conclude that Kenobi is telling the truth when he says he doesn't remember R2.
Wait a minute, that NOT the question he was asked.
---------------------------------------------------------------
LUKE: Oh, this little droid! I think he's searching for his former
master...I've never seen such devotion in a droid before...there
seems to be no stopping him. He claims to be the property of an Obi-
Wan Kenobi. Is he a relative of yours? Do you know who he's talking
about?
Ben ponders this for a moment, scratching his scruffy beard.
BEN: Obi-Wan Kenobi...Obi-Wan? Now thats a name I haven't heard in a
long time...a long time.
LUKE: I think my uncle knew him. He said he was dead.
BEN: Oh, he's not dead, or...not yet.
LUKE: You know him!
BEN: Well of course, of course I know him. He's me! I haven't gone by
the name Obi-Wan since oh, before you were born.
LUKE: Well, then the droid does belong to you.
BEN: Don't seem to remember ever owning a droid. Very interesting...
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
5/12 9:00am
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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Hey, that's right! The memory of his name comes before he says he doesn't remember owning a droid while looking at R2 -- not after, as I implied above. I feel this cements my position that Kenobi truly does not remember R2. What motivation would he have for pretending not to recognize the robot?
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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halibut
Title: FF Admin & UK RSA
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Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
5/12 9:54am
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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The motivation is to stop Luke asking lots of awkward questions before Ben is ready to give him the answers.
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Darth Dark Helmet
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Dec '99
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Date Posted:
5/12 9:58am
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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Right, we already know that Obi-Wan is not planning on telling Luke the whole truth about his father, and telling Luke that R2 was his father's droid would bring up many questions that Obi-Wan is not ready to answer, or maybe doesn't even want to answer.
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
5/12 10:10am
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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I suppose that could work in-universe if you choose to imagine it that way. I think Kenobi failing to recognize the droid as having once been Anakin's makes more sense, but you know, we are all entitled to our own personal STAR WARS "canon".
The real-world explanation, however, is a different story -- since Vader and Anakin were still two distinct entities in Lucas' mind (according to all early drafts of the original film), and since in the brief backstory notes (which later became the prequels) there's no mention of R2 or 3PO.
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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halibut
Title: FF Admin & UK RSA
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Date Posted:
5/12 10:14am
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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Absolutely. The reality is we have to form our own opinion. I kinda like the idea that he does indeed recognise R2, so I'm happy with that 
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voodoopuuduu
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
5/12 10:37am
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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Not recognizing R2 if R2 was there by himself may be believable. But with 3CPO there also, thats just too much not to jar Obi-Wans memory. Along with Luke, Anakins son there too. Seeing Luke, Obi-Wan had no choice but to think Anakin.
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
5/12 10:54am
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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^ ^ But we also see in the PT that there are many protocol droids in the Galaxy, many of which have a similar voice as 3PO (TC-14. e.g.). At all events, did Kenobi ever see the two robots together? They spend almost all of the three PT films apart. There is no strong reason to conclude that Kenobi must recognize the two droids as once belonging to Anakin and Padme.
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"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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heathdaniel
Registered:
Sep '04
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Date Posted:
5/12 2:51pm
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
- Date Edited:
5/12 2:52pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
heathdaniel
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I do not believe, given the high number of astromech droids in the galaxy, that Kenobi would have recognized his padawan's robot -- which looks pretty much like every other "R2" model -- twenty years later.
From the ROTS novel by Matt Stover:
"Obi-Wan could not avoid a second of disbelief at the bewildering variety of auxiliary tools and aftermarket behaviors Anakin had tinkered onto his starfighter's astromech, even beyond the sophisticated upgrades performed by the Royal Engineers of Naboo. The little device was virtually a partner in its own right."
Yes, Obi-Wan may have had little respect or regard for droids, but even for him, R2-D2 was special, and I think he would have remembered that 20 years down the line.
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voodoopuuduu
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
5/12 3:14pm
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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many of which have a similar voice as 3PO (TC-14. e.g.).
While I dont discount that 3CPO may be gay, TC-14s voice is a female, American accent versus 3CPOs over the top male British butler accent.
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rumsmuggler
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
5/12 4:24pm
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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Obi Wan has been known to lie i.e. "certain point of view".
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Retcons = making the dumb stuff look even dumber.
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JEDI-RISING
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
5/13 8:41am
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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He may or may not have known at first, but by the time they got to his home, and the message was played, he had to realize R2 and C3PO were indeed the droids Anakin and Padme had.
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"Mostly because of my father i guess"
"Ah, father. Powerful Jedi was he ,mmm, powerful Jedi."
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
5/13 9:57am
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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^ ^ That I can certainly agree with, in-universe.
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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rumsmuggler
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
5/13 12:27pm
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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yep..
-----signature-----
" Conan, what's best in life?" " Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the women."
W.W.L.D. What Would Lando Do
"Why is the rum always gone?"
Retcons = making the dumb stuff look even dumber.
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