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Topic:
"I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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halibut
Title: GSA
RICHARDSON/Forum Feud Champion
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
5/13 12:34pm
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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But that would also lend credence to the "he recognised R2 straight away" side.
One of the reasons given for him not recognising R2 is that he said he didn't. So why wouldn't he tell Luke when he DID realise? He's already telling him his Father was a Jedi and gave him his lightsaber. Why not say that R2 was also his? He must have his reasons, so those reasons would be also be valid when R2 and Ben first met up.
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
5/13 1:00pm
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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He never said he didn't recognize R2.
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The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach
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heathdaniel
Registered:
Sep '04
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Date Posted:
5/13 2:12pm
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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I think this is one of those things that has no definite answer. Maybe GL has an answer in his head that would end this discussion, but I like that we can all have our own opinions about the situation.
My theory: Obi-Wan recognizes R2 immediately. He doesn't want to jump right into his history or Anakin's history with Luke, so he keeps quiet about it.
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voodoopuuduu
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
5/13 10:14pm
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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^^ Yep. I also think that when he first saw R2, he realized that something important must be going on, for R2 to even be there. But he didnt want to spill the beans to Luke or anyone else until he knew for sure what was going on.
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Winner CT Trivia Challenge 44, Winner PT Trivia Challenge 10 , 13, 14
Joint-Winner CT Trivia Challenge 49 and 50
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halibut
Title: GSA
RICHARDSON/Forum Feud Champion
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
5/14 2:40am
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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Arawn_Fenn posted:
He never said he didn't recognize R2.
I know that, but the debate has turned into whether or not he recognised him 
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JEDI-RISING
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
5/14 8:22am
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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Well he never said he didn't recognize R2, he said he didn't remember ever owning a droid. Of course, he actually never did own R2. I just don't think it was real important at that time for him to tell Luke R2 was owned by his father. Then again he may not have known for sure they were the same droids, but the way he looked at droids, they were just machines.
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
5/14 8:49am
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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JEDI-RISING posted:
Well he never said he didn't recognize R2, he said he didn't remember ever owning a droid. Of course, he actually never did own R2. I just don't think it was real important at that time for him to tell Luke R2 was owned by his father. Then again he may not have known for sure they were the same droids, but the way he looked at droids, they were just machines.
^ ^ That about sums up my position as well.
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"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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xx_Anakin_xx
Registered:
Jan '08
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Date Posted:
5/14 4:40pm
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
- Date Edited:
5/14 4:41pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
xx_Anakin_xx
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Obi-Wan didn't seem all that fond of R2D2 back in the day - it could be he was a little jealous because Anakin seemed to love the droid as much as his friend. Perhaps he was holding a grudge against R2D2 and trying to insult the little varmit by pretending not to recognize him.
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Jedi_Apprentice
Registered:
May '01
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Date Posted:
5/14 7:55pm
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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xx_Anakin_xx posted:
Obi-Wan didn't seem all that fond of R2D2 back in the day - it could be he was a little jealous because Anakin seemed to love the droid as much as his friend. Perhaps he was holding a grudge against R2D2 and trying to insult the little varmit by pretending not to recognize him.
Haha! Yeah, that's the answer!
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rumsmuggler
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
5/14 11:25pm
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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" Conan, what's best in life?" " Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the women."
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Retcons = making the dumb stuff look even dumber.
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SoonerSean
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
5/17 12:31pm
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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Well if the films had been shot in order I'm sure he'd say something that acknowledges that he knows R2 and 3PO. But since one came almost 30-years before the others... we've got what we've got and I think the best "explanation" is that Obi Wan by that time plays pretty loosely with the truth/facts.
That we know from the PT that Obi Wan and the droids had many many many interactions... it's just hard to fathom that there's no acknowledgement of that in the OT. However that's just something we have to live with since the PT came so much earlier and GL clearly hadn't laid out all the details of the entire story. He seems to try and cover it with the "Have the protocol droid's mind wiped" comment... but what about R2? I'd expect R2 to be telling 3PO to translate for Obi Wan how good it is to see him again after 20-years... how he's been close to Leia all that time, etc.
It's just one of those "issues" that's hard to resolve except to say that it is what it is.
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
5/17 1:13pm
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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SoonerSean posted:
... I think the best "explanation" is that Obi Wan by that time plays pretty loosely with the truth/facts.
I don't think we need to see Kenobi in this light. In-universe, he obscures Vader's true origins for a reason: to protect Luke from the burden of the truth. (Whether you agree with his decision or not, that is his motivation.) There would be no need to keep silent on the identity of the droids. He might say simply "that one was your father's, and that one your mother's" and leave it at that.
SoonerSean posted:
That we know from the PT that Obi Wan and the droids had many many many interactions... it's just hard to fathom that there's no acknowledgement of that in the OT.
Kenobi, as we know from AOTC, believes that droids can't think. In the PT he doesn't acknowledge them as fellow "beings" or "creatures", the way Luke does in the OT. I believe Kenobi sees them as machines and just doesn't recognize them as being anything other than utilitarian robots that look and sound like the many others he's encountered... at least at first. By the time he does recognize them (if he does at all), he would dismiss this connection as unessential. It's not like he's trying to hide the former ownership of the droids.
SoonerSean posted:
[Lucas] seems to try and cover it with the "Have the protocol droid's mind wiped" comment... but what about R2? I'd expect R2 to be telling 3PO to translate for Obi Wan how good it is to see him again after 20-years... how he's been close to Leia all that time, etc.
I've always got the sense that R2 is in the know, but he's canny enough to keep his "mouth" shut until the Jedi deem the time is right to tell Luke and Leia about their true origins. R2 is in on all the secrets, he just knows that silence is the better part of wisdom, unlike 3PO.
But all this is just one fan's opinion. I don't mean to quash anyone's own ideas about why Kenobi acts the way he does.
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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SoonerSean
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
5/17 6:07pm
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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Vortigern99 posted:
I don't think we need to see Kenobi in this light. In-universe, he obscures Vader's true origins for a reason: to protect Luke from the burden of the truth. (Whether you agree with his decision or not, that is his motivation.) There would be no need to keep silent on the identity of the droids. He might say simply "that one was your father's, and that one your mother's" and leave it at that.
Except that he obviously doesn't acknowledge ever having known R2 or 3PO. Again... it's clearly b/c GL didn't have everything mapped all the way out back in the shooting days of ANH. So all we're left with today is to try and "create" explanations for certain things. In this case - Obi Wan had known R2 for years and had been around 3PO for sometime as well (at some point after the events of AOTC).
Vortigern99 posted:
Kenobi, as we know from AOTC, believes that droids can't think. In the PT he doesn't acknowledge them as fellow "beings" or "creatures", the way Luke does in the OT. I believe Kenobi sees them as machines and just doesn't recognize them as being anything other than utilitarian robots that look and sound like the many others he's encountered... at least at first. By the time he does recognize them (if he does at all), he would dismiss this connection as unessential. It's not like he's trying to hide the former ownership of the droids.
I'd disagree slightly based on how Obi Wan acts towards 3PO near the end of ROTS - the way he puts his hand on him when 3PO is commenting about leaving Mustafar. I also think some of his dialogue about R2 earlier shows at least a good sense of humor towards droids as he and Anakin banter about (Anakin's "no lose wire jokes").
Given that it's near impossible to create a prequel 20+ years after an original without having written everything at the start - it's probably surprising that there aren't a lot more head-scratching moments trying to connect small details between the OT and the PT. In this case - it's up to each viewer to decipher why Obi Wan doesn't acknowledge R2 and 3PO right from the start (maybe to provide more cover for Anakin's identity - fearing that if he acknowledged the droids Luke might ask more questions than he already does).
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voodoopuuduu
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
5/17 7:50pm
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
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I also think some of his dialogue about R2 earlier shows at least a good sense of humor towards droids as he and Anakin banter about (Anakin's "no lose wire jokes").
heh, yeah. When 3CPO got his arm torn off by the Sandpeople in ANH, there was a perfect opportunity for Obi-Wan to make a loose wire joke.
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
5/18 1:46pm
Subject:
RE: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
- Date Edited:
5/18 1:49pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Vortigern99
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SoonerSean posted:
Again... it's clearly b/c GL didn't have everything mapped all the way out back in the shooting days of ANH. So all we're left with today is to try and "create" explanations for certain things.
Certainly, and I've addressed this point in earlier posts. That's why I try to specify "in-universe" when I'm putting forth possible explanations of Kenobi's behavior in 'ANH'. In the real world, Lucas had a few pages of backstory notes that don't mention the droids at all, so it's up to the fans (and/or the EU authors) to explain what's going on "in-universe".
SoonerSean posted:
I'd disagree slightly based on how Obi Wan acts towards 3PO near the end of ROTS - the way he puts his hand on him when 3PO is commenting about leaving Mustafar. I also think some of his dialogue about R2 earlier shows at least a good sense of humor towards droids as he and Anakin banter about (Anakin's "no lose wire jokes").
Good humor perhaps, but recognition of individuality is a different thing. 3PO looks and sounds similar to TC-14, and for that matter to the "Ee chuta" droid on Bespin. R2 looks and sounds like every other astromech in the Galaxy. I remain unconvinced that someone like Kenobi, who doesn't believe droids can think, would see anything unique about Luke's robots.
SoonerSean posted:
... In this case - it's up to each viewer to decipher why Obi Wan doesn't acknowledge R2 and 3PO right from the start (maybe to provide more cover for Anakin's identity - fearing that if he acknowledged the droids Luke might ask more questions than he already does).
That's certainly one possible reading, and it seems to be more popular than my own interpretation. But I still think Kenboi could, if pressed, have simply said "that one was your mother's, that one was your father's", and left it at that. I can even imagine a "deleted" or unscripted scene in which that very conversation takes place, possibly in transit in the landspeeder on the way to Mos Eisley. For Kenobi this would provide an opportunity to talk about the destiny laid out by the Force (and the free will that exists within that overarching destiny), rather than another uncomfortable moment in which he has to invent another story told from a "certain POV".
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"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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