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Topic:
Did Darth Vader let Luke win their duel in ROTJ?
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xx_Anakin_xx
Registered:
Jan '08
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Date Posted:
5/19 8:02pm
Subject:
RE: Did Darth Vader let Luke win their duel in ROTJ?
- Date Edited:
5/19 8:05pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
xx_Anakin_xx
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I think it depends on what people mean by "let Luke win". Vader could have taken him out immediately, but that was not what he was supposed to do. He was supposed to get Luke to hop over onto the dark path and so he just goaded him. Once Vader had done that, he could defeat him, but not kill him.
Vader saw Luke fall and embrace the darkness. But because Vader was in conflict, part of him did not want Luke to fall. He told Luke later, "you were right about me" - which means part of Vader did want to let go of his anger and be a Jedi again. That part of him wanted Luke to be a Jedi too - there was necessarily a part of him that was cying "noooooooo" and abhored at what he'd gotten his son to do.
But Vader kept going with the plan, attempting to defeat Luke, but because of his conflict, he was not one with the dark force. Dark!Luke was also not one with the dark force, but he was more immersed in darkness than Vader at that point and he overpowered his dad. I think too, Vader didn't expect Luke to go hog wild with the dark force because he knew there was still light within him. But Anakin apparently forgot his own past and how deep and easily Skywalkers fall with their temper tantrums.
So Vader didn't let Luke win; he would have tried to defeat him and let him live. But he couldn't do that without immersing himself completely in the dark as well and the circumstances didn't allow for it.
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"Only a Sith deals in absolutes. I'll do what I must"
"You will try"
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JEDIGUNSHIP
Registered:
May '08
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Date Posted:
5/24 12:06pm
Subject:
RE: Did Darth Vader let Luke win their duel in ROTJ?
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I really think that Vader did not let Luke win, because he still put up a good fight, just that Luke's skills were at that point better than Vader's ever were. If Vader had given up, then why was he still trying to get Luke to join him on the Dark Side? He sounded confident enough.
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Blue and yellow make a green lightsaber. How do you get red out of blue?
Jedi Knight in the New Jedi Trials/ Commander of Phoenix Squadron in the Rebel Alliance
Host of the "100 Greatest Animated Cartoons" Countdown in the Amphitheatre
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HemDazon90
Registered:
Mar '08
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Date Posted:
6/13 9:29am
Subject:
RE: Did Darth Vader let Luke win their duel in ROTJ?
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before I whould say no. after seeing the first level in the force unleashed yes
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"Young fool. Only now, at the end, do you understand. Your feeble skills are no match for the power of the dark side. You have paid the price for your lack of vision. Now, young Skywalker, you will die."
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-polymath-
Title: SFF:F/TV Trivia Host
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
6/13 9:35am
Subject:
RE: Did Darth Vader let Luke win their duel in ROTJ?
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STFU (Starwars The Force Unleashed) is not canon, is it? I don't think we can properly analyze the happenings in the movies based on a video game made approximately 25 years after the film.
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SFF Films & TV Trivia Contest: Subject is "Serenity/Firefly"
**Question Seven Posted**
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rumsmuggler
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
6/13 10:50am
Subject:
RE: Did Darth Vader let Luke win their duel in ROTJ?
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The video games are canon( for the most part unless it's a really off the wall game or one of the podracing games), a lower level, but still canon.
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" Conan, what's best in life?" " Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the women."
W.W.L.D. What Would Lando Do
"Why is the rum always gone?"
Retcons = making the dumb stuff look even dumber.
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TaradosGon
Registered:
Feb '03
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Date Posted:
6/13 12:33pm
Subject:
RE: Did Darth Vader let Luke win their duel in ROTJ?
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What Lucas says and what I see are two different things. Lucas says that Vader wanted Luke to become his apprentice so that they could overthrow the Emperor, which is consistent with what Vader says in ESB. But, in ROTJ Vader turns Luke over to the Emperor and says things like "it it too late for me" and "HE is your master now."
It seems like in ESB he was ready to overthrow Palpatine, but a year later (ROTJ) when the opportunity finally presents itself, suddenly things are being said like "You don't know the power of the Dark Side; I MUST obey my master."
It seems like he's beginning to have doubts that it's possible to beat Palpatine. To me, it seems like Vader accepted that he was not all powerful; it seemed like he accepted that he was going to die by Luke's hands, but first wanted to turn him to the dark side with the hope that Luke would be able to achieve a level of power that Vader failed to reach.
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katz
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
6/13 7:02pm
Subject:
RE: Did Darth Vader let Luke win their duel in ROTJ?
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I was watching this ep recently and think that Vader slipped. It looks like he walked in a backwards step while going to the other side of the walkway and slipped somehow. Or maybe he was overwhelmed by Luke's force of the lightsaber.
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Katz
Darth Vader: Luke, I am your Father
C-3PO: We were made to suffer, it's our lot in life.
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_Sublime_Skywalker_
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
6/13 9:07pm
Subject:
RE: Did Darth Vader let Luke win their duel in ROTJ?
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I think Vader was overwhelmed. He faced Luke not even two years before hand and merked him with a capital M. Once Luke got angry, Vader I guess suspected that he would be unable to control his darkside power and I guess suspected he'd make the same mistake he did against Obi Wan all those years ago.
His guard was down in those last few minutes. Up until then, Luke had been the sprouting of a perfect Jedi- refusing to fight, refusing to give in etc. Although the comment was made to provoke Luke, and bait him into showing himself, I don't think Vader actually thought Luke would come charging at him full speed.
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'You don't know the Power of the Darkside!'-Darth Vader
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T-R-
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
6/14 5:29am
Subject:
RE: Did Darth Vader let Luke win their duel in ROTJ?
- Date Edited:
6/14 5:32am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
T-R-
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Vader didn't let Luke win - either duel - physical or spiritual. Plain and simple. The movie, the script, and the novel all show Luke overwhelmed Vader in the physical duel, with "a fury Vader had never known." That's what was/is shown and what was intended by the people making the movie. i.e. Lucas.
Luke is beat and thats why he hides to the shadows up until Darth Vader brings out the anger hidden inside of him. and Vader's intent was to allowed Luke to live long enough to join him, and was in complete control until the very end.
Luke is not hiding because he's beat, he's hiding because he doesn't want to fight and is in danger of losing the spiritual duel. Watch it again because Luke is in control of the physical duel from beginning to end. He kicks Vader down the stairs and effortlessly blocks his attacks prior to leaping to the platform. Once again, movie, script, and novel.
I dont even understand how Luke was able to keep up with Vader. Annikan was the chosen one and every Jedi/Sith knew it. In ROTS, Palpatine even said that Annikan would grow to be stronger and more powerful than all of us and that was without any darkside training. No one ever could match Vaders strengths. I just wish we knew exactly how strong Luke was with the force compared to his father because he did start at a late age compared to most Jedi Masters.
First off, movie, script, and novel explain how Luke is able to keep up with and surpass Vader.
Secondly, Luke didn't know Anakin was the chosen one, and either did Lucas when making Jedi.
Thirdly, what we know of power now is that Anakin and Luke could be 200% as powerfull as the Emperor at full potential. After Mustafar, Vader could only be 80% at full potential. Meaning only 40% of Luke's full potential. During story treatments for Empire, Vader was listed as less powerfull than Ben by Lucas (Annotated Screenplays). So it's quite likely that Vader never reached his full potential (i.e. is <40% of Anakin's original potential). Like you said, what was Luke's current level? Was he near 40% of his potential? If he was close to 40% (or >40% when using the darkside as he pummeled Vader) then there is your answer based on power. But.....
Lastly, all of this doesn't matter because Force power alone doesn't win a lightsaber duel - never has in any of the movies. Vader had more lightsaber training but Luke was younger, faster, and more agile.
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Anakin Skywalker: Chosen One
Luke Skywalker: Son of the Suns
Two Prophecies
Two Destinies
ONE SAGA
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