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Topic:
Nature of the Jedi Purge
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xx_Anakin_xx
Registered:
Jan '08
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Date Posted:
7/10 10:02pm
Subject:
RE: Nature of the Jedi Purge
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Based solely on the movies, I would have imagined that Vader had absolutely no problem dealing with the PT Jedi. He was shown to be phenomenal. Once he got used to the suit (a couple of weeks and adjustments) he would be unstoppable. Obi-Wan would ever be his achilles heel because even though he'd talked himself into hating him, the Jedi inside never really could as he had been the only one left in the world he loved after Padme died. GL said he loved Sidious too, as much as a Sith can, but apart from them, there was no one else until Luke came along.
Basedon EU, pick and chose which book, series, comic, etc., you wish to use as a guide. He has been shown every which way, up and down, the strongest, the not so strong, sometimes downright weak. He has been shown an excellent strategist and a total nincompoop that couldn't hit a blind guy one foot in front of him with a waving double edged lightsaber. It is funny because the authors have their personal heroes who they want to outsmart, beat, etc., Vader, but they are always stuck at leaving him as whole as he was for the last three films and of course he can't die ~ so their super personal heroes always fail in the end, although they try to play it off by having them "leave town" or "hang out somewhere they won't be found" after pulling off some feat against Vader. But the G canon Vader was feared by all except Sidious, so I don't pay much attention to those that make him less than that.
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"Only a Sith deals in absolutes. I'll do what I must"
"You will try"
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goraq
Registered:
May '08
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Date Posted:
7/11 2:37am
Subject:
RE: Nature of the Jedi Purge
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,,Also, his SA was created for the task of taking down the Jedi too.,,
He was created to help him kill his Master.
Had Vader ever gone for a jedi hunt with Inquisitors,Dark jedi,or Emperors Hands?
According to wiki,i dont know how much that counts there were 200 jedi hiding,wich it means
he and his assasins had 10 jedi for every year in the 20 years between the Revenge of the Sith
and his last duel with Ben Kenobi.
He killed least one dark jedi called Sardoth,how was in league with Dooku,and one Jensaarai.
According to Sardoth Order 66 wiped out Dookus dark jedi too,andonly a handful of them escaped.
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Kazanova
Registered:
Jun '08
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Date Posted:
7/11 10:02am
Subject:
RE: Nature of the Jedi Purge
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_Sublime_Skywalker_ posted:
I think theres actually a DH comic that came out this month with Darth Vader hunting down a Jedi Knight. IIIRC, he's taking her on completely alone.
Think about it this way, we saw Anakin take on a Jedi Knight and a Padawan in ROTS when Obi Wan watched the holocam. Of course he's been chopped cooked and served since then, but his power in the darkside has only grown as the years go by. I think that evens it out pretty well.
He was unable to regenerate any of his limbs or heal himself substantially for less than a few minutes. He wasn't able to HATE enough, and that is the prime emotion of channeling the dark side.
So I don't believe he really grew stronger in the dark side.
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
7/11 10:06am
Subject:
RE: Nature of the Jedi Purge
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_Sublime_Skywalker_ posted:
Was it supposed to be Cin Drallig? Everytime I see the scene I try to squint, but it's so quick I barely see a face.
I don't think we can see his face in that scene, but it's Drallig/Gillard.
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"That power is evilly-gained and is evil in itself. The blade's strength will continue to increase and yours will, also.
But, as Chaos-begotten power fills your being, you will have to fight, yet more strongly, to control the force within you."
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sith_rising
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
7/12 9:14pm
Subject:
RE: Nature of the Jedi Purge
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I always assumed that Vader would send bounty hunters or a platoon of soldiers to deal with a rogue Jedi. Vader is in no condition for combat, especially against a cornered ex-Jedi Knight outlaw with nothing to lose.
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"My mentor taught me everything about the Force, even the nature of the Dark Side"
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
7/12 9:24pm
Subject:
RE: Nature of the Jedi Purge
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Tell that to TESB Luke.
-----signature-----
"That power is evilly-gained and is evil in itself. The blade's strength will continue to increase and yours will, also.
But, as Chaos-begotten power fills your being, you will have to fight, yet more strongly, to control the force within you."
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_Sublime_Skywalker_
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
7/12 9:25pm
Subject:
RE: Nature of the Jedi Purge
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Yeah really, if Darth Vader could easily handle his son, whose just as strong in the force as he is, I think a few scattered Padawans and a few Jedi Knights are nothing compared to the chosen one.
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'You don't know the Power of the Darkside!'-Darth Vader
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sith_rising
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
7/12 10:13pm
Subject:
RE: Nature of the Jedi Purge
- Date Edited:
7/12 10:14pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
sith_rising
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You guys are forgetting that sub-Padawan Luke Skywalker absolutely floored Darth Vader in about 6 seconds, with a very uncoordinated and slow attack, leaving him unable to get to his feet and gasping for air. A Jedi Knight that had fought in the Clone Wars and survived Order 66 most likely wouldn't hold back; he'd cut the hand off, then the head.
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DarthApocalypse
Registered:
Apr '07
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Date Posted:
7/12 10:37pm
Subject:
RE: Nature of the Jedi Purge
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1.Are you referring to ROTJ? If you are I was always under the impression that neither Vader or Luke were really trying in that fight. Vader because he didn't want to kill his son (evidenced by Luke noting the conflict in Vader) and Luke was just trying to convert his father (evidenced by his refusals to fight and his the throwing away of his saber.)
2.Vader didn't have any problems killing survivors of the war and Order 66. Read Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader. In that book Vader goes from depressed loser to an efficient killing machine who can more than hold his own against Jedi.
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sith_rising
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
7/12 10:39pm
Subject:
RE: Nature of the Jedi Purge
- Date Edited:
7/12 10:48pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
sith_rising
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I don't read the EU, as I feel the films explain everything that is needed. As for Luke and Vader, they were both giving it their all in ROTJ, Luke had just surpassed his father. Vader could have probably choked him or pushed him out a window or something, but I don't think he had any intention of losing to his son in combat. He wanted to push him over the edge of the Dark Side, and Luke wanted to avenge himself for Bespin.
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_Sublime_Skywalker_
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
7/13 12:00am
Subject:
RE: Nature of the Jedi Purge
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By not reading the EU you're just ignoring the answers to these kind of questions.Like Apocalypse said, Dark Lord details Darth Vader pretty much right after being into the suit. At first he's nothing the loss of power and he's drowning in his own depression, but he gets smart and starts his reign of absolute power. He trains himself to adapt to the suit, and soon he's pretty much as powerful as he once was.
I also agree with Apocalypse on the throne room duel aswell. I don't think Vader was really trying, nor Luke. Vader was just blocking the shots trying to bring out Luke's anger and hopefully get him to turn while Luke was just kinda doing the dance along with his father, prolonging the actual brutal part of the fight while trying to redeem his father. Luke only really let go when Leia was mentioned, and silly Vader did not expect his perfect son to give in.
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sith_rising
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
7/13 8:21am
Subject:
RE: Nature of the Jedi Purge
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But there's no way suited Vader can ever be as powerful as an unsuited Vader. It may look cool and offer some protection, but at the end of the day, it's a crutch for keeping him alive. He is clumsy and uncoordinated, and nowhere near as good as he was at Mustafar. He can't even turn his head 90 degrees, and can barely raise his arms above his head (he can't even assume Anakin's favored attack posture anymore, so he transitions to a newer style of combat).
As for him and Luke, I maintain that they were both giving it everything they had. Vader doesn't hurl objects like at Bespin, but he didn't do that on the Death Star 1 against Kenobi, and he really hated Kenobi then. He's very vain, and likes to defeat his opponents "fairly", like he did against Dooku, to show his superiority. He was teaching Luke a lesson in the Force at Bespin, but by mentioning Leia in ROTJ, he was trying to push Luke over the edge and fully convert him. If the EU says he wasn't trying then I don't buy it, because Luke's triumph over Vader is one of the strong mythological undertones concerning the son finally becoming a man and overthrowing the father.
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DarthApocalypse
Registered:
Apr '07
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Date Posted:
7/13 9:35am
Subject:
RE: Nature of the Jedi Purge
- Date Edited:
7/13 9:37am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
DarthApocalypse
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sithrising posted:
But there's no way suited Vader can ever be as powerful as an unsuited Vader. It may look cool and offer some protection, but at the end of the day, it's a crutch for keeping him alive. He is clumsy and uncoordinated, and nowhere near as good as he was at Mustafar. He can't even turn his head 90 degrees, and can barely raise his arms above his head (he can't even assume Anakin's favored attack posture anymore, so he transitions to a newer style of combat).
No. Vader's suit greatly enhances his physical power since he has machine parts and the armor offers much more protection (evidenced by Luke's saber just bouncing off in ESB). His force power doesn't seem to be affected either since there is nothing he could do pre-Mustafar that he can't do post-Mustafar. And where are you getting the idea suited Vader was un-coordinated? Changing to a slow power style doesn't make one uncoordinated. In fact you can see examples of Vader's grace when he glides down the stairs in Cloud City and when he deftly fights Luke in a narrow, cramped hallway.
sithrising posted:
As for him and Luke, I maintain that they were both giving it everything they had.
So Luke was just kidding when he said Vader was conflicted, threw down his saber and tried to talk Vader down? I don't know how you can say someone who throws their weapon away is really trying to win a fight.
sithrising posted:
Vader doesn't hurl objects like at Bespin, but he didn't do that on the Death Star 1 against Kenobi, and he really hated Kenobi then. He's very vain, and likes to defeat his opponents "fairly", like he did against Dooku, to show his superiority.
a) I don't see what hurling objects has to do with Vader's strength, especially since he didn't hurl objects on Mustafar at Kenobi either (the time where you believe he was strongest and when he hated Obi-Wan the most).
b) I've never heard such a ridiculous statement. Since when do Sith fight fair? And please explain to me how the Dooku fight was fair when Obi-Wan and Anakin attacked him 2 on 1? Please explain to me how killing an unarmed opponent can be deemed fair? Please how the same person that slaughtered women and children can be deemed as one who fights fairly?
sithrising posted:
He was teaching Luke a lesson in the Force at Bespin, but by mentioning Leia in ROTJ, he was trying to push Luke over the edge and fully convert him. If the EU says he wasn't trying then I don't buy it, because Luke's triumph over Vader is one of the strong mythological undertones concerning the son finally becoming a man and overthrowing the father.
The Vader/Luke throne room confrontation has nothing to do with EU. It's all right there in the movies. Luke clearly states Vader is conflicted, which means he isn't fighting at full strength. Luke clearly throws down his saber which shows he isn't fighting at full strength. I don't know how much clearer it can be. The only part you got right in when you say Vader mentions Leia in order to try to convert Luke. That is true. But that also just proves my point that Vader wasn't trying to kill Luke. How can he convert him if he's dead?
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sith_rising
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
7/13 10:13am
Subject:
RE: Nature of the Jedi Purge
- Date Edited:
7/13 10:39am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
sith_rising
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Because if Luke isn't good enough to survive Vader's onslaught, he isn't worth his time. Vader's suit was a hinderance. Do you think he wouldn't have given it up if he could? He didn't gracefully glide at Bespin, he fell, just forward. He didn't look so graceful when Luke forced him off the freezing platform. Mustafar Anakin would have backflipped and been right back on the attack. Vader couldn't even get to his feet after Luke floored him with a 6 second attack, a very slow and telegraphed one at that. Unsuited Vader/Anakin would have mopped the floor with Luke, so don't say that his suit is beneficial. It is physically strong, intimidating, offers some protection and looks cool, but he'd ditch it for more mobility in a heartbeat if he could.
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Kazanova
Registered:
Jun '08
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Date Posted:
7/13 11:18am
Subject:
RE: Nature of the Jedi Purge
- Date Edited:
7/13 11:28am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Kazanova
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DarthApocalypse posted:
a) I don't see what hurling objects has to do with Vader's strength, especially since he didn't hurl objects on Mustafar at Kenobi either (the time where you believe he was strongest and when he hated Obi-Wan the most).
Of course he doesn't use that aspect of Dun Moch on Mustafar. There was no need to.
In the saga, we only see Sidious and Vader hurl numerous objects via force to subdue their opponent... I believe because Sidious was messing around; in the instance of Vader, he needed to "catch his breath" so to speak. Luke is youthful and energetic. Those repeated attacks before taking off his son's hand was probably his last burst for a while! If you watch TESB, it's clear that this half-trained, wet-behind-the-ears, padawan boy is wearing down this Dark Lord of the Sith.
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