Author Topic: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
Alonna_Reese 
Registered: Jul '08
44114_Carth Onasi
Date Posted: 5/1 11:07am Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
Badger_Legion posted:
Dictators and powerful military figures are generally feared by people who live under their yoke. Nothing in that indicates that the average Galactic citizen knows that they are force users.


This would certainly be backed up in the films based on the Imperial reactions when Vader chokes Motti in the conference room. Motti was clearly unaware of what Vader was, and if a high ranking Imperial officer doesn't know, it's extremely unlikely that your everyday citizen would ever have even a clue that Palpatine and Vader were Sith.

 

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HellasLEAF-Jedi  58 posts
Registered: Apr '09
40081_Anakin Skywalker
Date Posted: 5/1 7:01pm Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
[quote]originally posted by Badger_LegionAuthoritarian governments almost always suppress information that doesn't work to their favor. Why would the Empire be any different? As for how, it's simply a matter of not allowing the information to be discussed in the public sphere. If information on the Jedi could potentially hurt the government, then you can be sure that that knowledge wouldn't be taught in any school or univeristy, it wouldn't be mentioned in any media, and books about it would be censored or destroyed entirely. Sure, a lot of people would still know about the force and the Jedi, and they could teach their children about them, but when you live in a police state, a lot of people choose to keep their mouths shut to avoid any potential trouble with the government. That wouldn't entirely eradicate the information from the public consciousness, but it would be far less commonly known. Kind of like the Tiananmen Square Massacre in China.[/quote]

listen, your statement simply isn't accurately applied to the Star Wars world. you are trying to take events that have happened here on earth in a totalitarion state and apply that to how the Empire ruled the galaxy and it's not relatable. We are talking about a Galaxy here, not a country or city. You are making way to many presumptions about how the Empire would handle knowledge of the Jedi. Not only is there no evidence that they were even trying to do that (fine let's assume they tried) that would be impossible.

[quote]Dictators and powerful military figures are generally feared by people who live under their yoke. Nothing in that indicates that the average Galactic citizen knows that they are force users. [/quote]

oh come on, you are telling me that they didn't know Vader was a force user. Darth Vader. After ROTS, Vader lead and helped build the empire into the galactic presence it is when ANH begins. Taking over worlds and hunting down Jedi. What, is he holding back? No, of course not. Over these many years he is garnering a reputation for being a feared ruler and he is obviously using force powers. It's why they fear him, it's not the black mask. His exploits have to be known galaxy wide. Not every man, women and alien, but 'known' for the most part.

 

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TwiLekJedi  69991 posts
Title: Classic Trilogy Manager
Registered: Jun '01
49704_H213: Halflife
Date Posted: 5/2 5:19am Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
The portrayal of the Jedi under the Empire has been pretty much always been assumed to be about suppression and misleading, and that has been picked up by EU. Luckily, we also see a hint of that when Palpatine publically claims there was an assassination attempt by the Jedi. Aside from Organa and Padme, no eyebrows were raised at that claim.
Of course he would continue that and make it official policy.

And I still think you grossly overestimate public knowledge about the Force. But I suppose I don't understand why someone wouldn't take Luke's lack of knowledge as a statement about the state of the galaxy (or even just Tatooine), and instead assume Luke doesn't fit what the rest of the galaxy must surely be like. And even if the galaxy at large should know, why wouldn't Tatooine be one of the exceptions? Nobody seemed to be curious about Anakin's podracing during the glory days of the Jedi Order.

 

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Icestar63  1985 posts
Registered: Nov '05
50709_H1311: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 5/2 10:28am Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
He probably felt something but he can't just know what it is on his own, someone has to explain it to him, which Obi-wan did of course.

 

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HellasLEAF-Jedi  58 posts
Registered: Apr '09
40081_Anakin Skywalker
Date Posted: 5/2 2:58pm Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
TwiLekJedi posted:
The portrayal of the Jedi under the Empire has been pretty much always been assumed to be about suppression and misleading, and that has been picked up by EU. Luckily, we also see a hint of that when Palpatine publically claims there was an assassination attempt by the Jedi. Aside from Organa and Padme, no eyebrows were raised at that claim.
Of course he would continue that and make it official policy.

And I still think you grossly overestimate public knowledge about the Force. But I suppose I don't understand why someone wouldn't take Luke's lack of knowledge as a statement about the state of the galaxy (or even just Tatooine), and instead assume Luke doesn't fit what the rest of the galaxy must surely be like. And even if the galaxy at large should know, why wouldn't Tatooine be one of the exceptions? Nobody seemed to be curious about Anakin's podracing during the glory days of the Jedi Order.


I mean, I understand what you are saying and it's a fair point, I guess we have to agree to disagree a bit. Now, what I ask is that you not take moments in ANH too literally or too sternly. It is the one film that was written with the most flaws as it was the first and does not flow as well with the rest of the Star Wars world created by Lucas. This is understandable of course as his back story (the PT) was vague at best and although he did have ideas for 2 follow up stores, they were not set in stone and there even was no guarantee they would see the light of day if Star Wars turned into a flop.

I guess I am trying to think logically about how people would react in that world taking the full 6 stories into context and not just looking at a line of dialogue here or a moment there in ANH to determine these things.

 

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Badger_Legion  65 posts
Registered: Jan '08
22677_Anakin's Lightsaber
Date Posted: 5/3 2:13am Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
HellasLEAF-Jedi posted:
BadgerLegion posted:
Authoritarian governments almost always suppress information that doesn't work to their favor. Why would the Empire be any different? As for how, it's simply a matter of not allowing the information to be discussed in the public sphere. If information on the Jedi could potentially hurt the government, then you can be sure that that knowledge wouldn't be taught in any school or univeristy, it wouldn't be mentioned in any media, and books about it would be censored or destroyed entirely. Sure, a lot of people would still know about the force and the Jedi, and they could teach their children about them, but when you live in a police state, a lot of people choose to keep their mouths shut to avoid any potential trouble with the government. That wouldn't entirely eradicate the information from the public consciousness, but it would be far less commonly known. Kind of like the Tiananmen Square Massacre in China.


listen, your statement simply isn't accurately applied to the Star Wars world. you are trying to take events that have happened here on earth in a totalitarion state and apply that to how the Empire ruled the galaxy and it's not relatable.


Okay, why aren't they comparable? The Empire is organized like a real-world government, and it acts like a real-world government. Some aspects of it are even meant to evoke images of real-world totalitarian regimes (the name "stormtrooper," the strict military discipline and uniforms). So, why is it that we shouldn't make the very obvious comparisons to real-world governments?

HellasLEAF posted:
We are talking about a Galaxy here, not a country or city.

Its incredible scale is simply a product of its setting within a fantasy story. In nearly all its actions, it behaves like a national government.

HellasLEAF posted:
You are making way to many presumptions about how the Empire would handle knowledge of the Jedi. Not only is there no evidence that they were even trying to do that (fine let's assume they tried) that would be impossible.

What would be impossible? Government censorship? Suppression of free speech? I don't understand why you are assuming that. For all intents and purposes, the Empire is a totalitarian government. It would have all the resources necessary to accomplish these things (control of the media, control of education, oppressive laws, a powerful military, control of all state institutions, etc.). Since they would have a strong motivation to suppress information that might threaten their power (the truth about the Jedi Rebellion and the Clone War, knowledge of the force, whatever), I don't see why they wouldn't do it.

HellasLEAF posted:
BadgerLegion posted:
Dictators and powerful military figures are generally feared by people who live under their yoke. Nothing in that indicates that the average Galactic citizen knows that they are force users.


oh come on, you are telling me that they didn't know Vader was a force user. Darth Vader. After ROTS, Vader lead and helped build the empire into the galactic presence it is when ANH begins. Taking over worlds and hunting down Jedi. What, is he holding back? No, of course not. Over these many years he is garnering a reputation for being a feared ruler and he is obviously using force powers. It's why they fear him, it's not the black mask. His exploits have to be known galaxy wide. Not every man, women and alien, but 'known' for the most part.


You're assuming that Vader's exploits were widely publicized. I don't see why. For all we know, based on the films, Vader was entirely a behind the scenes guy. We don't see your average person mentioning him, only high-ranking people in the military, the rebellion, or people who have encountered him before. Furthermore, when Luke hears his name for the first time in ANH, he shows no sign of recognizing it. So for all we know, Vader is simply a shadow leader, only known to major political players.

Further more, even if Vader is widely known, even if his military campaigns were widely publicized, that still wouldn't mean that his status as a force user was common knowledge. Its not like Vader would be there in the trenches fighting every battle by himself. No, Vader would leave nearly all fighting up to the soldiers (like we see in the OT), except for maybe when he was hunting down Jedi, but those cases probably wouldn't be publicized. And even if Vader did fight on the front lines, and did use a lot of force powers, there's still no assurance that the Empire's press would report it. If there was a campaign to limit knowledge about the force, then the Empire would obviously not want it known that a famous military leader was a force user, and would censor press reports that tried to mention it.

 

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vaders_cape  142 posts
Registered: Nov '05
8211_Vader and Leia
Date Posted: 5/3 5:42pm Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
For me it's quite simple - and for once not a GL muck-up - it doesn't matter what you are genetically predisposed towards something, you have to be in the right environment to express them.

It doesn't matter how many generations of highly gifted concert pianists you are descended from, if you don't have access to a piano and a teacher, you're not going to become a pianist.

 

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TwiLekJedi  69991 posts
Title: Classic Trilogy Manager
Registered: Jun '01
49704_H213: Halflife
Date Posted: 5/3 5:52pm Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
But the Force is innate and the thread asks why he couldn't name it. That's like your piano kid playing on some musical toy that has a similar row of keys, and then learning about grand concert pianos.

 

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vaders_cape  142 posts
Registered: Nov '05
8211_Vader and Leia
Date Posted: 5/5 7:27pm Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
The human ability to walk and talk is also innate and yet an infant has to be in the right environment in order to learn those abilities.

Empathy is also innate, and the level of it varies from human to human, and yet young children have to be taught empathy, they have to be taught to be kind and considerate.

Just because something is innate does not mean it will express itself unless the environment allows or encourages it. Especially when it is something intangible such as the force.

 

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HemDazon90  573 posts
Registered: Mar '08
23581_Prince Xizor
Date Posted: 5/5 7:48pm Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
well he didnt exactly go to school and really didnt care about the greater universe

 

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TwiLekJedi  69991 posts
Title: Classic Trilogy Manager
Registered: Jun '01
49704_H213: Halflife
Date Posted: 5/6 10:09am Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
Does it matter whether or not Luke actually used the Force prior to meeting Obi-Wan if the question is why he didn't know it? It probably wouldn't even matter that he's Force-sensitive. If he's heard of the Force, he'd know something about it. If he didn't, he'd blurt out "The Force??" as soon as some desert hermit mentions it.

And most sources suggest the Force doesn't need as much of an environment to develop as speech does - or is indeed like anything else at all, being a mysterious energy field. wink

 

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anidanami124  11796 posts
Registered: Aug '02
49890_H499: Sephiroth
Date Posted: 5/10 2:31pm Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
jedibri posted:
If Luke is anakin's offspring then how is it he had no knowledge of the Force? I mean come on. It's in his dna. Even if he was far removed from his Father and sister he should have had some ideal he was different.


Thoughts?


When you are not told that you're father was a Jedi and that you also have the same power he does that's kind of way. Also he was never showen how to use any of his powers.

 

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brainwash  85 posts
Registered: Jan '09
Date Posted: 5/11 8:46pm Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
halibut posted:
I find it more hard to believe that the name "Anakin Skywalker" is not well known throughout the galaxy.

Also, Luke is a racer and a pilot. Surely he'd know that a certain Anakin Skywalker was the first human to win the Boonta Eve Classic on his home planet. Anakin was a great pilot. Luke is a great pilot. They share a surname....


Maybe he did, he seemed to worship what little he knew of his Dad, and he never got much of that out of Owen, beyond him being a navigator on a spice freighter.

 

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Darth_Nub  150 posts
Registered: Apr '09
47748_Dath Vectivus
Date Posted: 5/11 9:09pm Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
HellasLEAF-Jedi posted:
oh come on, you are telling me that they didn't know Vader was a force user. Darth Vader. After ROTS, Vader lead and helped build the empire into the galactic presence it is when ANH begins. Taking over worlds and hunting down Jedi. What, is he holding back? No, of course not. Over these many years he is garnering a reputation for being a feared ruler and he is obviously using force powers. It's why they fear him, it's not the black mask. His exploits have to be known galaxy wide. Not every man, women and alien, but 'known' for the most part.


The opening crawl to ANH describes Darth Vader as one of the Empire's 'sinister agents', so I've always assumed he was working well out of the public eye, much like the Gestapo or the KGB. His name would be known to many, but it was probably a name to be whispered among only the closest of friends.
The Empire's propaganda machine wouldn't go out of its way to publicise anything about a man whose role was to hunt down & exterminate all resistance, they may well have denied he even existed.
It wasn't until the Senate was dissolved & the Rebellion declared a full-blown emergency that Vader stepped out of his grubby role as head of the secret police & into the position of a military warlord. At this point, Palpatine couldn't care less what the public thought - "the last remnants of the Old Republic had been swept away", so he didn't have to answer to anyone at all.

I've often wondered what the official Imperial line on the great Jedi hero Anakin Skywalker would have been - has it ever been mentioned in the EU?

 

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HellasLEAF-Jedi  58 posts
Registered: Apr '09
40081_Anakin Skywalker
Date Posted: 5/11 9:38pm Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
No, I think you are describing the Emperor, not Vader. The Emperor was the one behind the scenes controlling things. Vader was always front and centre for the Empire. Why would Palpatine need Anakin so badly then? To hide in the shadows and make decisions? No, he needed him because of his great force powers and as a symbol of the Galactic Empire's power to be feared. He was also directly involved in major deciding battles (Yavin he flew his own ship, Hoth he shuttled down to the Rebel base, Bespin he flew there to set the trap with Lando, he was on Endor as well...) are we not to believe that he would have been involved over the years from Episode 3 to 4 in all major Empire battles and major turning points as they ascend to power? Surely not...

Now, we also know that Vader was at the fore front of hunting down the remaining Jedi, as well as commanding his Imperial fleet from his own Superstar Destroyer. As one planet after another would bow to their will/might don't you think Vader's name would have gotten mentioned? Of course it would have. In fact, I would make an argument that in that Galaxy, no one man would be more well known than Darth Vader. Who else? Maybe Jabba because of how much control the Hutts had, that's about it. And we aren't talking about an ordinary man like a Grand Mof Tarkin for example. He was a masked, caped, force user who was half machine. Surely someone recognizable and different. Here we have as I stated, an entire galaxy slowly being taken over by the sheer might of the Galactic Empire, with Darth Vader front and centre in his own Superstar Destroyer, directly involving himself in all major battles (both in space and on the planet surfaces) and spearheading the killing of all remaining Jedi and this man is to be...unknown? come one now, really?

Many of the posts regarding the lack of knowledge of Vader as Imperial Warlord and Sith Lord are inaccurate both sourced from what we know of the Lucas films and the EU.


 

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