Jedi Council Forums - If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????

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Author	Topic: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
Darth_Nub Registered: Apr '09	Date Posted: 5/11 10:08pm Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it?????? - Date Edited: 5/11 10:25pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Darth_Nub
	HellasLEAF-Jedi posted: No, I think you are describing the Emperor, not Vader. The Emperor was the one behind the scenes controlling things. Vader was always front and centre for the Empire. Why would Palpatine need Anakin so badly then? To hide in the shadows and make decisions? No, he needed him because of his great force powers and as a symbol of the Galactic Empire's power to be feared. He was also directly involved in major deciding battles (Yavin he flew his own ship, Hoth he shuttled down to the Rebel base, Bespin he flew there to set the trap with Lando, he was on Endor as well...) are we not to believe that he would have been involved over the years from Episode 3 to 4 in all major Empire battles and major turning points as they ascend to power? Surely not... Now, we also know that Vader was at the fore front of hunting down the remaining Jedi, as well as commanding his Imperial fleet from his own Superstar Destroyer. As one planet after another would bow to their will/might don't you think Vader's name would have gotten mentioned? Of course it would have. In fact, I would make an argument that in that Galaxy, no one man would be more well known than Darth Vader. Who else? Maybe Jabba because of how much control the Hutts had, that's about it. And we aren't talking about an ordinary man like a Grand Mof Tarkin for example. He was a masked, caped, force user who was half machine. Surely someone recognizable and different. Here we have as I stated, an entire galaxy slowly being taken over by the sheer might of the Galactic Empire, with Darth Vader front and centre in his own Superstar Destroyer, directly involving himself in all major battles (both in space and on the planet surfaces) and spearheading the killing of all remaining Jedi and this man is to be...unknown? come one now, really? Many of the posts regarding the lack of knowledge of Vader as Imperial Warlord and Sith Lord are inaccurate both sourced from what we know of the Lucas films and the EU. The Emperor was a politician, & originally in the public eye as a result. Apart from being a Sith Lord, the character & his rise to power is not that different in ROTS as it was envisioned at the time ANH was made, although yes, he had withdrawn to a certain extent. However, there's a difference between being a recluse & being unknown. As far as Vader's concerned, we don't really know what he was up to between Eps III & IV in detail, other than hunting down & exterminating the Jedi, & this isn't exactly something your average citizen, i.e. some teenage farmer on Tatooine, is going to have immediate knowledge of, especially not under a dictatorship. As for his being involved in all the major battles during that time - there probably weren't any major battles between the end of the Clone Wars & the Battle Of Yavin. The Separatists were beaten & Palpatine had assumed the title of Emperor & was restructuring the Republic into the Empire with the consent of the Senate, not 'taking over the galaxy'. Over the twenty years between episodes, the Rebellion was something that grew covertly & it wasn't until the very start of ANH that they "won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire" when they stole the plans for the first Death Star. The twenty years between ROTS & ANH (which we'll be getting a look at in the upcoming TV series) wouldn't have been a period of warlords & generals, with big, glorious hero-making battles, but an era of fear & mistrust, more a 'Cold War' than 'Star Wars', & Darth Vader's MO would be to locate resistance & snuff it out with small death squads in the dead of night, not attack planets with the whole starfleet. That's something that started after the Rebellion became serious, i.e. they blew up the Death Star. -----signature----- "First you must fill your head with wisdom. Then you can hit ice with it."
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HellasLEAF-Jedi Registered: Apr '09	Date Posted: 5/12 6:55am Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it?????? - Date Edited: 5/12 7:05am (2 edits total) Edited By: HellasLEAF-Jedi
	Darth_Nub posted: The Emperor was a politician, & originally in the public eye as a result. Apart from being a Sith Lord, the character & his rise to power is not that different in ROTS as it was envisioned at the time ANH was made, although yes, he had withdrawn to a certain extent. However, there's a difference between being a recluse & being unknown. I'm not sure what your point is here. Chancellor Palpatine of the PT and the Emperor of the Galactic Empire in the OT are very different. When Palpatine exposes himself as a Sith Lord post Order 66 and over the years in the OT he is definitely behind scenes. He appears to Vader in holo transmissions and a visit to the Death Star is one of surprise to further the point. It is Vader that is the face of the Empire. [quote]As far as Vader's concerned, we don't really know what he was up to between Eps III & IV in detail, other than hunting down & exterminating the Jedi, & this isn't exactly something your average citizen, i.e. some teenage farmer on Tatooine, is going to have immediate knowledge of, especially not under a dictatorship.[/quote] Yes we do know. We know because we use common sense. In the OT it is a fact that Vader was a) leading the Imperial fleet from his personal superstar destroyer b) personally involved himself in all major imperial attacks, battles and plotting and c) lead the destruction of the Jedi personally. does this sound like a man that would not be known throughout the Empire? On the contrary. He would be known and feared. [quote]As for his being involved in all the major battles during that time - there probably weren't any major battles between the end of the Clone Wars & the Battle Of Yavin.[/quote] oh right. everyone throughout the galaxy rolled over and bowed down to Imperial rule. it was a time of peace. a very naive and short sighted statement. [quote]The Separatists were beaten & Palpatine had assumed the title of Emperor & was restructuring the Republic into the Empire with the consent of the Senate, not 'taking over the galaxy'. Over the twenty years between episodes, the Rebellion was something that grew covertly & it wasn't until the very start of ANH that they "won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire" when they stole the plans for the first Death Star.[/quote] The Empire ruled with fear and through militaristic means. That is why the Clones were made and made to follow Palpatine, in order to seize power. The Senate was almost never mentioned in the OT because it was irrelevant. [quote]The twenty years between ROTS & ANH (which we'll be getting a look at in the upcoming TV series) wouldn't have been a period of warlords & generals, with big, glorious hero-making battles, but an era of fear & mistrust, more a 'Cold War' than 'Star Wars', & Darth Vader's MO would be to locate resistance & snuff it out with small death squads in the dead of night, not attack planets with the whole starfleet. That's something that started after the Rebellion became serious, i.e. they blew up the Death Star.[/quote] I agree that there would have been a cold war type period, but that's a very mild way to put it. After ROTS, the Empire did not have instant control over all races and planets in the galaxy. even 20 years worth of 'middle of the night snuff raids' would still have made Darth Vader into a well known war lord. I also think that is flatly incorrect to hypothesize, as the Empire was never made to run and hide, but from their armies of Storm troopers and vast numbers of ships and land vehicles their intent was a show of strength. they would have made any raids well known and public to crush resistance in any form. Their would have been many battles, skirmishes and prominent figures killed over that time period in order to further cement their rule over the galaxy. Not as large in scale as battles in the PT or OT but certainly not in the way you are stating it. quite the opposite. Again I must say, Darth Vader (Darth, all Darth's are Sith Lords. This would be common knowledge in the galaxy surely) would be one of the most well known figures in the galaxy over that time. "The Darth title was more than just a symbol of power; it was a claim of supremacy. It was used by those Dark Lords who have sought to enforce their will on the other Masters. It was a challenge—a warning to bow down or be destroyed." ?Sith Blademaster, Kas'im[src] Darth was a title given to certain Sith Lords which preceded either their chosen Sith name, or (in some cases) their birth name. ^^^ from Wookiepedia. and we are still meant to believe people did not know he was a force user? -----signature----- I'd like to thank Mr. and Mrs. Lucas for deciding to have sex that night.
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Darth_Nub Registered: Apr '09	Date Posted: 5/12 7:45pm Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
	I think we're on two different wavelengths - I'm referring to the period directly after ROTS up to just before ANH, not the whole OT. Vader wasn't assigned command of the Executor until after ANH. As it relates to the discussion at hand, it's simply what your average Joe (or Luke) would know in detail about what's going on, not what members of the military, the Rebellion or the Senate were aware of. Certainly Luke seems to know very little about the Rebellion, other than it exists, & does not react at all to the name 'Darth Vader'. Under Imperial rule, news would be heavily censored. Obviously they can't contain all information - hence the emergence of a Rebellion - but under such rule, most average citizens like Uncle Owen would rather stay out of trouble & not look into such matters too deeply, no matter how obvious it was that something was wrong. As a result, Luke's knowledge of the galaxy would be filtered through Owen & Beru, who also have a very good reason to keep him in the dark. As the period hasn't been covered in any real detail, it's all just speculation & opinion anyway, but IMHO Darth Vader was a relatively shadowy figure until the time of ANH, simply based on the fact that he is referred to as one of the Empire's 'sinister agents' in the opening crawl, & doesn't bear a military rank. Although the Imperial officers regard him with a certain amount of fear, it doesn't prevent Motti from speaking to him like a subordinate. To them, he's just a thug who handles dirty, grubby business that they'd rather not know about, & business that would not even be officially acknowledged. For example, after the capture of the Blockade Runner at the start, the Empire issues a cover story about what happened to the vessel & Senator Leia Organa - they send a fake distress signal about encountering a meteor shower & then inform the Senate that "all aboard were killed". After the Death Star was destroyed, yes, Darth Vader became Lord High Executioner of the Galactic Empire & certainly his name would then have become widely known & feared, but the whole galaxy was then thrust into a state of full-blown civil war as it was, & the Senate no longer existed, so all facade of democracy had been thrown away. Before then, the Empire would rather have had everyone believe that the Alliance was just a rag-tag bunch of extremists out to create havoc for no reason, but something that would be dealt with easily enough. -----signature----- "First you must fill your head with wisdom. Then you can hit ice with it."
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Darth_Naveu Registered: May '09	Date Posted: 5/18 3:10pm Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
	Because no Jedi or Sith TAUGHT him the Force. Luke is powerful with the Force, but he doesn't automatically know what the Force is and how to use it. -----signature----- "What's the difference between an AT-AT and a stormtrooper on foot?" "One's an Imperial walker, and the other's a walking Imperial!" -Jacen Solo
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HANs_BAR_TAB Registered: Oct '07	Date Posted: 5/20 6:43am Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it?????? - Date Edited: 5/20 7:12am (5 edits total) Edited By: HANs_BAR_TAB
	Darth_Naveu posted: Luke is powerful with the Force, but he doesn't automatically know what the Force is and how to use it. Spot on. Let it be remembered that when Luke is racing down the trench in his X-Wing, it is indeed his own father who trails him and his own father who has just flawlessly eliminated several other rebel pilots en route to "staying on the leader". If you want to know how naturally powerful Luke is with the Force and at the same time how he has always radiated this power while never knowing it....we see Vader having zero clue as to the name/pilot of Red 5, yet all he knows is he is having a trying time shooting this specific pilot down and after repeated attempts declares "the Force is strong with this one." Simply put, how often in the SW galaxy do Sith Lords heap praise on an enemy, with the clock ticking down towards epic Imperial destruction all the while flying lead craft in a murderous trench run??? I would like to think that the praise would only be delivered if and when a Sith Lord is actually surprised by such a massive "disturbance" in the Force around some enemy. It is this surprise that produced Vader's chatter over his Imperial com link. The trip part of this Battle of Yavin is (for my generation of SW junkie) looking at the battle from the viewer having the prequals in mind as compared to back in the day when you first saw ANH and it was just this farmboy dude being hunted down by this sinister agent. The Battle of Yavin is listed in Lucas's books as a SW galaxy's 'birth of christ' date with a timeline of before Battle of Yavin and after Battle of Yavin dates. It is however with the prequals and a understanding of life before the Battle of Yavin that we get a totally different impact of Vader's declaration of the force being so strong with Red 5. -----signature----- "Great shot kid that was one in a million!"---HAN
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xx_Anakin_xx Registered: Jan '08	Date Posted: 5/21 11:50pm Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
	halibut posted: Still doesn't explain why Luke wouldn't know about Anakin Skywalker being the first human to win the Boonta Eve classic Agreed...a genuine plot hole that one. He would have known of Anakin Skywalker and likely even checked into the dude with the same last name who was also a great racer. From there, he'd find out he'd been a famed Jedi because the backwater Tatooine had lots of ships coming and going we know. However - Luke's quest for a paternal relation would end there (Jedi don't marry or have kids) - although he may have thought there was some familial relation between them. On the other hand - Skywalker may have been a more popular name than we know, so maybe it was just like learning of the existence of another man named "Smith"...? -----signature----- I say we put together a 'kill squad' and assassinate Darth Krayt. Who's with me?
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voodoopuuduu Title: Classic Trilogy Trivia Host Registered: Mar '04	Date Posted: 5/22 7:00am Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it?????? - Date Edited: 5/22 7:01am (1 edits total) Edited By: voodoopuuduu
	Still doesn't explain why Luke wouldn't know about Anakin Skywalker being the first human to win the Boonta Eve classic wink But for example, who remembers the great NASCAR drivers of twenty years ago ? Only real die hard NASCAR trivia fans. If Luke wasnt into pod racing, he would have cared less. -----signature----- Winner CT Trivia Challenge 44, 54 Winner PT Trivia Challenge 10 , 13, 14, 17 Joint-Winner CT Challenge 49 and 50, PT Challange 18
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TwiLekJedi Title: Classic Trilogy Manager Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 5/22 7:37am Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
	Add to that that podracing has been banned. Even though it's only lawless Tatooine, I'd think that the Empire, whose second-in-command won the thing once, made sure it's enforced. Or only Jabba has the money to host the race and upholds his end of some bargain. -----signature----- We do what we must Because we can For the good of all of us Except the ones who are dead
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Dark--Helmet Registered: Apr '03	Date Posted: 5/22 9:42am Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it?????? - Date Edited: 5/22 9:46am (2 edits total) Edited By: Dark--Helmet
	xx_Anakin_xx posted: On the other hand - Skywalker may have been a more popular name than we know, so maybe it was just like learning of the existence of another man named "Smith"...? That may be trying a little to hard to explain it when the movie didn't.Theres just no reason to think that. voodoopuuduu posted: Still doesn't explain why Luke wouldn't know about Anakin Skywalker being the first human to win the Boonta Eve classic wink But for example, who remembers the great NASCAR drivers of twenty years ago ? Only real die hard NASCAR trivia fans. If Luke wasnt into pod racing, he would have cared less. But everybody remembers Jackie Robinson.That's what Aankin would have been.The racing looks pretty popular and a big deal,Anakin was the only human who could do it.And that's not even mentioning he was a little boy!Anakin would be a legend. -----signature----- TheForce.net where your opinion and honest reaction to something isn't really how you feel it's just your lack of understanding and hatred of George Lucas.
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Darth_Unicorn Registered: May '09	Date Posted: 5/22 5:00pm Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
	In Return of the Jedi, when they are on Endor and Luke tells Leia they are siblings, he tells her she has the force, and up until then she has no idea and even when he tells her that, she doesn't believe it. She never thought she was really different or anything, but Luke still ends up training her in the force and she becomes decently powerful. Basically, just pointing out that it doesn't matter that Luke never thought himself to be different or felt the force inside of him, because it was in there anyway.
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xx_Anakin_xx Registered: Jan '08	Date Posted: 5/23 12:46am Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
	Yeah I was just offering one up for Lucas. But I agree that it is odd Luke wouldn't have heard about the famed first human to ever win a podrace in his home town, being into racing and all himself. -----signature----- I say we put together a 'kill squad' and assassinate Darth Krayt. Who's with me?
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vaders_cape Registered: Nov '05	Date Posted: 5/27 8:04pm Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
	Mind you, even if he had heard about Anakin being the first human to win a podrace, he wouldn't necessarily have known about Anakin's force abilities and therefore his own. -----signature----- This thing of Darkness I acknowledge mine. There is nothing more confining than the prison we don't know we're in. - William Shakespeare
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black_saber Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 5/28 10:39am Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
	I am sure he had some knowledge of the force judging be obsessve about his father. -----signature----- "Just when I thought I was out , they push me back in." I never liked micheal Jackson and he was always a looney.
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darth-sinister Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 5/28 1:28pm Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
	That's not true, given what Luke says in ANH. BEN: "A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all but extinct. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force." LUKE: "The Force?" BEN: "Well, the Force is what gives the Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together." Luke is unaware of the Force until Obi-wan tells him about it. He knew of the Jedi, but only that they had existed once and their order fell during the Clone Wars. As to knowing that Anakin was a podracer, who is to say that he doesn't know? And what does it matter if Anakin knew that his father was a podracer? That has no bearing on knowing that his father was a Jedi. Now, Anakin didn't know about his father, because he never ran into anyone that knew who he was. Just because his name is Skywalker doesn't mean jack. You think that he is the only Skywalker in the universe? Also, Owen and Beru were careful to make sure that he didn't go looking into his father's past. So no holonet searches. Anyone who knew Anakin was dead or on the other side of the planet. And no one knew that he had a child. Much less one that survived. -----signature----- Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge." Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side. Something, something, something complete."
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DarthIktomi Registered: May '09	Date Posted: 5/29 11:04pm Subject: If Luke is Anakin's offspring then how is it??????
	Well, that, and it was illegal to talk about the Force. So instead of having religious hypocrites, Palpatine subverts the standard cliché by being hypocritical in his atheism (since he clearly believes in the Force and uses it to shoot blue lightning).
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