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Author	Topic: Why do people keep saying the Ewoks beat the stormtroopers? They didnt.
Qui-Gon_Reborn Title: Qui-Gon's Personal SWC Modsaber Registered: Dec '08	Date Posted: 2/7 9:53pm Subject: RE: Why do people keep saying the Ewoks beat the stormtroopers? They didnt.
	So true. -----signature----- To be a true poet is to become God. - Dan Simmons Now bring me that horizon. - Capt. Jack Sparrow High Priestess in the Holy Order of the Circle-in-the-Sky Worshippers
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Obironsolo Registered: Feb '05	Date Posted: 2/7 11:10pm Subject: RE: Why do people keep saying the Ewoks beat the stormtroopers? They didnt.
	While I wouldn't argue that it was a diversion, there is some reason to think that Lucas actually did mean for the Ewoks to "beat" the Stormtroopers. As we all know, the original plan was for the Wookies to battle the Empire at the end, but then after Chewbacca became such a technologically adept character, Lucas changed his mind about using Wookies and instead turned them inside out and called them Ewoks. The reason he couldn't use them was because he wanted to make a thematic point based on his observations of Viet Nam, in which a people with no technology were able to defeat a much greater power using primitive yet effective methods. Lucas has definitely spoken to this many times. When did he say people misunderstood this and thus he made it so clear in TPM? Was that in the commentary? I don't dispute this at all, just curious. Also, it may be nitpicking to try and differentiate between the Ewoks defeating the Empire, and the Ewoks fighting alongside the Rebels defeating the Empire. The latter is undeniable. Also, I'm not sure that staging a successful diversion, in which you take out as many of the enemy as they take out of you (debatable), it might be enough to make the point.
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obi-rob-kenobi4 Registered: Apr '07	Date Posted: 2/8 8:52am Subject: RE: Why do people keep saying the Ewoks beat the stormtroopers? They didnt.
	Obironsolo posted: While I wouldn't argue that it was a diversion, there is some reason to think that Lucas actually did mean for the Ewoks to "beat" the Stormtroopers. As we all know, the original plan was for the Wookies to battle the Empire at the end, but then after Chewbacca became such a technologically adept character, Lucas changed his mind about using Wookies and instead turned them inside out and called them Ewoks. The reason he couldn't use them was because he wanted to make a thematic point based on his observations of Viet Nam, in which a people with no technology were able to defeat a much greater power using primitive yet effective methods. Lucas has definitely spoken to this many times. When did he say people misunderstood this and thus he made it so clear in TPM? Was that in the commentary? I don't dispute this at all, just curious. Also, it may be nitpicking to try and differentiate between the Ewoks defeating the Empire, and the Ewoks fighting alongside the Rebels defeating the Empire. The latter is undeniable. Also, I'm not sure that staging a successful diversion, in which you take out as many of the enemy as they take out of you (debatable), it might be enough to make the point. Good points but while that is true Lucas also said in the commentary of ROTJ that the "real battle" was the space battle and that the Ewoks were ultimately a diversion to help the rebels, thus helping to overthrough an empire. What i think he meant by saying that is what the ewoks did was not without merit and there diversion was a key part of insuring the space battle (the real battle) but still not as big a deal as people say it was because they didn't overpower the empire so much as they "hung in there" until there retreat. -----signature----- "You call THIS a diplomatic solution?" "No, I call it aggressive negotiations." so this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause..... who am I, where am I going? -Tony Soprano
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Arawn_Fenn Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 2/8 9:34am Subject: RE: Why do people keep saying the Ewoks beat the stormtroopers? They didnt.
	They're like animals... and I slaughtered them like animals. I hate them! -----signature----- "You're both from strange little backwater planets. You both have odd powers. You're male and she's female. What more do you need? Believe me, buddy, if I were you, I'd go right up there and ask her if she wants to ride on my rancor." - Han Solo
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Merlin_Ambrosius69 Registered: Aug '08	Date Posted: 2/8 10:36am Subject: RE: Why do people keep saying the Ewoks beat the stormtroopers? They didnt.
	Not to break my arm patting myself on the back, but I've been saying this for years. The Ewoks are clearly losing their various skirmishes until Chewbacca commandeers the ST and turns the tide, allowing the 'woks to employ their primitive traps, against which the Troopers have no defense. Trooper armor is designed to repel blaster fire, not concussive force, so the rocks and sticks realistically stun or knock out the Imperials. There are also Rebel soldiers fighting the battle, but the camera lingers on the 'woks because theirs is the more interesting story. This gives the false impression that the Ewoks beat the Empire, when in fact, as many have been saying in this thread, their efforts were a diversionary tactic to buy Han time to get the shield down. -----signature----- "Chance makes playthings of us all." -- Seneca Shameless non-Manager Emeritus sock of Vortigern99. Fan of George RR Martin, JK Rowling and JRR Tolkien.
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Grand_Moff_Jawa Registered: May '01	Date Posted: 2/8 11:25am Subject: RE: Why do people keep saying the Ewoks beat the stormtroopers? They didnt.
	The Rebel landing party never planned on having any help on the forest moon. The Ewoks were a boon to their mission. They were only meant as a diversion. It worked pretty well in the end. -----signature----- "I can't abide those Jawas... disgusting creatures"! - C3PO This sig line is [FABULOUSO!] www.outerrimsieges.com "It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." -- Carl Sagan
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vaders_cape Registered: Nov '05	Date Posted: 2/8 12:44pm Subject: RE: Why do people keep saying the Ewoks beat the stormtroopers? They didnt.
	Quite so, a diversion is all they were. Plus, referring back to what I said, as well as Obironsolo's greater description, they were symbolic of the un-mechanised thwarting the mechanised, or organic overcoming the inorganic. The notion that they were an aide to the Rebels and fought with pluck is one thing, to suggest that they beat the stormtroopers is laughable. -----signature----- This thing of Darkness I acknowledge mine. There is nothing more confining than the prison we don't know we're in. - William Shakespeare
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GrandAdmiral_Frank Registered: Aug '03	Date Posted: 2/8 2:06pm Subject: RE: Why do people keep saying the Ewoks beat the stormtroopers? They didnt.
	We know this it's just a lot of people get so upset by the fact that you actually see the Ewoks beating down stormtroopers that they can't move past that shocking moment. -----signature----- Member of the Han Solo and Chewbacca FanClub Member of the TFF Winner of the PT Rewrite Challenge Four "Don't make me destroy you"-Darth Vader, The Empire Strikes Back
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obi-rob-kenobi4 Registered: Apr '07	Date Posted: 2/8 2:53pm Subject: RE: Why do people keep saying the Ewoks beat the stormtroopers? They didnt.
	GrandAdmiral_Frank posted: We know this it's just a lot of people get so upset by the fact that you actually see the Ewoks beating down stormtroopers that they can't move past that shocking moment. Ewoks are said to be EXTREMELY strong, kind of like apes. An Ewok can very easily overpower a human (or in this case a human clone). Its basically getting outnumbered, then held down and bludgeoned to death by apes with rocks and spears. -thats what those scenes were pretty much. -----signature----- "You call THIS a diplomatic solution?" "No, I call it aggressive negotiations." so this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause..... who am I, where am I going? -Tony Soprano
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vaders_cape Registered: Nov '05	Date Posted: 2/8 4:45pm Subject: RE: Why do people keep saying the Ewoks beat the stormtroopers? They didnt.
	GrandAdmiral_Frank posted: We know this it's just a lot of people get so upset by the fact that you actually see the Ewoks beating down stormtroopers that they can't move past that shocking moment. Hey, I'm all for the under-dog - don't be deceived by my name - but it's not a shocking moment, that's a bit of an exaggeration. They did not beat the stormtroopers as in a single-handed defeat - they were an aide and a help to the Rebels, tis all. And even if they are as strong as apes - apes are as strong as apes and unfortunately for those fascinating creatures, humans are still going to be successful in destroying their habitat and descimating their numbers. I'm all for the romantic and hopeful notion of the symbolism behind the ewoks duffing up the stormtroopers, but it wasn't as simple as that pluckly little fellows though they were. -----signature----- This thing of Darkness I acknowledge mine. There is nothing more confining than the prison we don't know we're in. - William Shakespeare
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obi-rob-kenobi4 Registered: Apr '07	Date Posted: 2/8 10:15pm Subject: RE: Why do people keep saying the Ewoks beat the stormtroopers? They didnt.
	vaders_cape posted: GrandAdmiral_Frank posted: We know this it's just a lot of people get so upset by the fact that you actually see the Ewoks beating down stormtroopers that they can't move past that shocking moment. Hey, I'm all for the under-dog - don't be deceived by my name - but it's not a shocking moment, that's a bit of an exaggeration. They did not beat the stormtroopers as in a single-handed defeat - they were an aide and a help to the Rebels, tis all. And even if they are as strong as apes - apes are as strong as apes and unfortunately for those fascinating creatures, humans are still going to be successful in destroying their habitat and descimating their numbers. I'm all for the romantic and hopeful notion of the symbolism behind the ewoks duffing up the stormtroopers, but it wasn't as simple as that pluckly little fellows though they were. Yes but apes aren't as smart as Ewoks or else they would be a real threat to humans . -----signature----- "You call THIS a diplomatic solution?" "No, I call it aggressive negotiations." so this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause..... who am I, where am I going? -Tony Soprano
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vaders_cape Registered: Nov '05	Date Posted: 2/9 12:30pm Subject: RE: Why do people keep saying the Ewoks beat the stormtroopers? They didnt.
	If apes were as smart as ewoks then the most they could do is build treehouses and lob stones! Unfortunately poachers would still have the last laugh with guns and chainsaws to fell the trees. At best the ewoks were a primitive tribe of tree-dwelling teddybears with a tendency towards eating their captives. It's a nice idea, but unfortunately those who wield large, destructive machines will always over-throw small, furry, stone-lobbing ankle-biters. -----signature----- This thing of Darkness I acknowledge mine. There is nothing more confining than the prison we don't know we're in. - William Shakespeare
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Dark Lady Mara Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '99	Date Posted: 2/9 2:30pm Subject: RE: Why do people keep saying the Ewoks beat the stormtroopers? They didnt.
	Apes, or monkeys? 'Cause I think apes are arguably smarter than Ewoks, they were just sadly deprived of larynxes by evolution and can't have spoken language like the Ewoks have. -----signature----- "Sci Fi has been associated with geeks and dysfunctional, antisocial boys in their basements with video games and stuff like that, as opposed to... the female audience." ~~ SPOILER-FREE TILLLL EPISODE IV "there aren't that many Ls in til." - farraday
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vaders_cape Registered: Nov '05	Date Posted: 2/9 2:57pm Subject: RE: Why do people keep saying the Ewoks beat the stormtroopers? They didnt.
	Dark Lady Mara posted: Apes, or monkeys? 'Cause I think apes are arguably smarter than Ewoks, they were just sadly deprived of larynxes by evolution and can't have spoken language like the Ewoks have. Interesting point. Are you aware of the orangutan who was taught sign-language? Now she was a smart ape - and she wouldn't have eaten you either. So is it the lack of speech which has kept apes from building tree-huts do you think? This could be controversial, suggesting that apes are smarter than ewoks though..... -----signature----- This thing of Darkness I acknowledge mine. There is nothing more confining than the prison we don't know we're in. - William Shakespeare
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Merlin_Ambrosius69 Registered: Aug '08	Date Posted: 2/9 3:58pm Subject: RE: Why do people keep saying the Ewoks beat the stormtroopers? They didnt.
	Well, elaborate tool crafting, architecture, religion and music-making are other cultural elements that distinguish Ewoks from terrestrial simians. Real-world apes are intelligent enough to acquire sign language, certainly, but as of 2009 any and all ape species have yet to develop a system of religious philosophy, to construct houses around a communal center, or to craft and play musical instruments. -----signature----- "Chance makes playthings of us all." -- Seneca Shameless non-Manager Emeritus sock of Vortigern99. Fan of George RR Martin, JK Rowling and JRR Tolkien.
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