Author Topic: lando the traitor
timmoishere  7880 posts
Registered: Jun '07
14706_AT-AT
Date Posted: 3/1 9:05am Subject: lando the traitor
jedimasterbac posted:
Fair point, although it may not have been possible for them to leave with the Super Star Destroyer in orbit.

It's only one ship. It would be relatively easy to get past it.

 

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DarthStothe  460 posts
Registered: Jun '02
6464_Anakin Solo
Date Posted: 3/2 8:09pm Subject: lando the traitor
While the Lando-racism point may or may not be valid, I'd say there are bigger issues of racism in the OT. I mean, at least African Americans are represented for a viewing audience. The Alliance is supposed to be this diverse coalition of countless species and races and somehow the only humans the audience sees for an extended time are caucasian (and Lando). Not to mention the fact that despite the myriad of species and races supposedly making up the Alliance, all the Alliance's leaders are mostly caucasian (Leia, Luke, Han, Crix Madine, Mon Mothma, etc...) -- with the exception of Lando and Admiral Akbar. And Akbar is an Indian name, so I guess there's some kind of attempt there but... really... who wants to make connections between their culture and this fish-thing that is only known because he yells "It's a trap." And why are Han Solo and Luke Skywalker leaders of the rebellion anyway? Sure, Luke and Han destroyed the Death Star, and did a bunch of fancy footwork, but where among the canyons of Tatooine did Luke pick up any strategic military skills? And Han is a smuggler by trade, sure he's got some tricks up his sleeve, but they make him a General (or some other kind of high ranking officer, I can't remember). Surely there are more qualified individuals out there who deserved higher rankings.

Of course, this is a moot point because I don't think any of this subtext was intentional on Lucas' part, just a byproduct of the cultural climate in films.

(All this, in my opinion of course)

 

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Darthbane2007  1380 posts
Registered: Oct '07
13725_Lando and Han
Date Posted: 3/3 4:10am Subject: lando the traitor
DarthStothe posted:
While the Lando-racism point may or may not be valid, I'd say there are bigger issues of racism in the OT. I mean, at least African Americans are represented for a viewing audience. The Alliance is supposed to be this diverse coalition of countless species and races and somehow the only humans the audience sees for an extended time are caucasian (and Lando). Not to mention the fact that despite the myriad of species and races supposedly making up the Alliance, all the Alliance's leaders are mostly caucasian (Leia, Luke, Han, Crix Madine, Mon Mothma, etc...) -- with the exception of Lando and Admiral Akbar. And Akbar is an Indian name, so I guess there's some kind of attempt there but... really... who wants to make connections between their culture and this fish-thing that is only known because he yells "It's a trap." And why are Han Solo and Luke Skywalker leaders of the rebellion anyway? Sure, Luke and Han destroyed the Death Star, and did a bunch of fancy footwork, but where among the canyons of Tatooine did Luke pick up any strategic military skills? And Han is a smuggler by trade, sure he's got some tricks up his sleeve, but they make him a General (or some other kind of high ranking officer, I can't remember). Surely there are more qualified individuals out there who deserved higher rankings.

Of course, this is a moot point because I don't think any of this subtext was intentional on Lucas' part, just a byproduct of the cultural climate in films.

(All this, in my opinion of course)


Hey, If they can elect 14 year lds to be queens of an entire planet, they can surely give smugglers the rank of general.

 

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Doc_Jedi 
Registered: Jan '09
40039_Luke Skywalker
Date Posted: 3/3 12:44pm Subject: lando the traitor
Traitor is a little harsh. The man had responsibilities.

 

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Darthbane2007  1380 posts
Registered: Oct '07
13725_Lando and Han
Date Posted: 3/3 6:39pm Subject: lando the traitor
Doc_Jedi posted:
Traitor is a little harsh. The man had responsibilities.


Yeah, Han/Leia/Chewbacca were just being ********. For one, Han hadn't seen his "friend" in over a couple of years, so anyhing culd have happened since then.

Second, Lando had a greater responsibility for the thousands or so people in his care. He doesn't oweHan a thing.

 

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DRush76  447 posts
Registered: Jan '08
14816_Qui-Gon Jinn
Date Posted: 3/4 7:56pm Subject: lando the traitor - Date Edited: 3/4 7:58pm (1 edits total) Edited By: DRush76
jedimasterbac posted:
Darthbane2007 posted:
jedimasterbac posted:
[quote=morpha2]First of all, when was Vader going to kill thousands of innocent people in Cloud City? This is not even hinted at in the film--it's a fan conception that caught on to exonerate Lando. More likely, Vader would have simply tortured and maybe eventually killed Lando for (heroically) refusing to cooperate.


Agreed. The film really only hints to Vader wanting Bespin under Imperial control, not mass murder.

But what's stopping him from doing that? For all we know, he could have turned them in for running a Illegal Tibanna Gas mining Operation.
I'm just going by what's provided in the films. In that context, the Empire has little concern for whether or not someone is running an illegal gas mining operation. The Empire's concern is power; the more planets you have, the more power you have. Add to that, putting Bespin under Imperial control gives the Empire access to all of Bespin's resources.



So . . . why would Lando feel that he had no choice but to make a deal with Vader in the first place? And why did he bother to warn Bespin's citizens that the Empire was taking over the planet, in the end?

 

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timmoishere  7880 posts
Registered: Jun '07
14706_AT-AT
Date Posted: 3/5 9:43am Subject: lando the traitor
What Vader basically said to Lando was "We're here to capture your friends so that they will lead Luke Skywalker to me. Cooperate, and the citizens of Cloud City will not be harmed. When we're done, we will leave you in peace." Obviously, Vader rescinded the last part of the deal.

 

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SithLord_1270  83 posts
Registered: Nov '08
42315_Sith Eye
Date Posted: 3/6 10:42am Subject: lando the traitor
commander-oddball posted:
is it racist at all that the only african-american guy in the origional trilogy is the traitor?


Nah. As an african-american, I don't think its racist.

besides, we know he wasn't doing it for selfish reasons. Knowing vader, some threat to Cloud City(not to mention himself) had to have been made to get him to betray his friend.

 

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morpha2  745 posts
Registered: Aug '05
42926_Wampa
Date Posted: 3/6 11:32am Subject: lando the traitor
timmoishere posted:
What Vader basically said to Lando was "We're here to capture your friends so that they will lead Luke Skywalker to me. Cooperate, and the citizens of Cloud City will not be harmed. When we're done, we will leave you in peace." Obviously, Vader rescinded the last part of the deal.

Again, that's pure conjecture and not supported at all by the film. It's far more likely that he threatened Lando personally. What would be the purpose of threatening Lando's citizenry when directly threatening Lando himself will get the same results?

 

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timmoishere  7880 posts
Registered: Jun '07
14706_AT-AT
Date Posted: 3/7 12:41pm Subject: lando the traitor
It's supported because Lando told the citizens to flee. He wouldn't have done so if he didn't think they were in danger. Plus there's also these lines:

Han: "Well, aren't you afraid the Empire's gonna find out about this operation? Shut you down?"
Lando: "It's always been a danger, but it looms like a shadow over everything we've built here, but things have developed that will ensure security. I've just made a deal that will keep the Empire out of here forever."

Obviously, Lando's chief concern was the well-being of Cloud City's citizens. It is also supported on Wookieepedia:

"Calrissian, quietly escorted by a group of concealed Wing Guard, met Vader on the landing pad, and the Dark Lord of the Sith indicated that he wished to speak to Calrissian in private. Vader wished to discuss arrangements for capturing the inbound Han Solo and his compatriots, and though he acquiesced to a few of Calrissian's wishes, such as leaving Fett, whom Calrissian distrusted, out of the conference, Vader maneuvered the Baron Administrator into agreeing to betray Solo. Although he was reluctant to do so, Calrissian knew the lives of everyone on Cloud City were at stake, and so made the deal.[44] In exchange for Cloud City's continued independence and survival, Calrissian agreed to help detain the Falcon's crew until Luke Skywalker arrived and was captured by Vader.[52] "

 

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DarthStothe  460 posts
Registered: Jun '02
6464_Anakin Solo
Date Posted: 3/8 12:27pm Subject: lando the traitor
Dunno what bearing this will have on the conversation, but I just got done watching Lucas' commentary of "Empire Strikes Back" and in it he describes Lando when we first meet him as what Han Solo was before he met up with the Alliance-- selfish and self-centered.

 

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DRush76  447 posts
Registered: Jan '08
14816_Qui-Gon Jinn
Date Posted: 3/9 1:28pm Subject: lando the traitor - Date Edited: 3/9 1:30pm (1 edits total) Edited By: DRush76
Hey, George Lucas has his views and everyone else has theirs.

And whether Lando was being selfish or not, I see NO REASON why he had to be loyal to Han. He was not Han's "sidekick" or lap dog.


Besides, everyone is so busy trying to determine whether Lando was "loyal" or not, they have forgotten that Chewbacca and Leia's display of temper prevented Lando from rescuing Han from Boba Fett.

 

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morpha2  745 posts
Registered: Aug '05
42926_Wampa
Date Posted: 3/9 2:33pm Subject: lando the traitor
timmoishere posted:
It's supported because Lando told the citizens to flee. He wouldn't have done so if he didn't think they were in danger. Plus there's also these lines:

Han: "Well, aren't you afraid the Empire's gonna find out about this operation? Shut you down?"
Lando: "It's always been a danger, but it looms like a shadow over everything we've built here, but things have developed that will ensure security. I've just made a deal that will keep the Empire out of here forever."

He's talking about the security of the operation--as in, the mining industry that he has set up, not the lives of everybody on Cloud City. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Lando wouldn't care if they lived or died, but his first concern is obviously his own well being. If Han had asked "Aren't you afraid the Empire's gonna find out about this operation and KILL YOU ALL ONE BY ONE?" then you might have something.

timmoishere posted:
It is also supported on Wookieepedia:

The film is the higher authority, I'm afraid.

 

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DarthStothe  460 posts
Registered: Jun '02
6464_Anakin Solo
Date Posted: 3/9 3:31pm Subject: lando the traitor
DRush76 posted:
Hey, George Lucas has his views and everyone else has theirs.


Exactly. The OP was asking if Lando was presented in a racist fashion. It makes sense, then, to examine Lucas' views and how he chose to present them, to decide if there was any racist intent in the Lando character. Obviously, everyone is going to deconstruct it a different way.

 

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timmoishere  7880 posts
Registered: Jun '07
14706_AT-AT
Date Posted: 3/9 3:42pm Subject: lando the traitor
morpha2 posted:
timmoishere posted:
It's supported because Lando told the citizens to flee. He wouldn't have done so if he didn't think they were in danger. Plus there's also these lines:

Han: "Well, aren't you afraid the Empire's gonna find out about this operation? Shut you down?"
Lando: "It's always been a danger, but it looms like a shadow over everything we've built here, but things have developed that will ensure security. I've just made a deal that will keep the Empire out of here forever."

He's talking about the security of the operation--as in, the mining industry that he has set up, not the lives of everybody on Cloud City. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Lando wouldn't care if they lived or died, but his first concern is obviously his own well being. If Han had asked "Aren't you afraid the Empire's gonna find out about this operation and KILL YOU ALL ONE BY ONE?" then you might have something.

timmoishere posted:
It is also supported on Wookieepedia:

The film is the higher authority, I'm afraid.

The film doesn't contradict the Wookiee, though. It's only when there's a conflict do the tiers of canon have any effect.

 

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