Jedi Council Forums - Who does Sebastian Shaw represent?

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Author	Topic: Who does Sebastian Shaw represent?
Grand_Moff_Jawa Registered: May '01	Date Posted: 4/15 12:16pm Subject: Who does Sebastian Shaw represent? - Date Edited: 4/15 10:27pm (2 edits total) Edited By: jedimasterbac
	There's some debate between people here that Sebastian Shaw is supposed to represent Anakin before his turn to the Dark Side. I think most people would believe it's the opposite. Which do you believe? A. Post-Vader B. Pre-Vader BAC EDIT: See last post. -----signature----- "I can't abide those Jawas... disgusting creatures"! - C3PO This sig line is [FABULOUSO!] www.outerrimsieges.com "It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." -- Carl Sagan
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TaunTaunHerder Registered: Oct '07	Date Posted: 4/15 1:10pm Subject: Who does Sebastian Shaw represent?
	Whatever side he represents I know not. I just don't like the name Sebastian. That's a cat's name.
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GuNgAnFaN3090 Registered: Oct '08	Date Posted: 4/15 1:15pm Subject: Who does Sebastian Shaw represent?
	I'm not sure. I've never been sure. -----signature----- QueenArdnassak is my insane e-girlfriend. Sith Warrior in the "SWC: Acolytes of Darkness" Dark Side Points: 55
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Palp_Faction Registered: Feb '02	Date Posted: 4/15 1:20pm Subject: Who does Sebastian Shaw represent?
	Post Vader. Hayden was pre -----signature----- ROTS, ESB, ANH, AOTC, TPM, ROTJ
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Chewgumma Registered: Apr '09	Date Posted: 4/15 1:41pm Subject: Who does Sebastian Shaw represent? - Date Edited: 4/15 1:43pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Chewgumma
	Palp_Faction posted: Post Vader. Hayden was pre Where as now we know Sebastian's turn as Anakin Skywalker is post Vader I think the discussion point revolves around the inclusion of Hayden Christensen in ROTJ. Because Hayden's ghost was added there is now debate as to whether Anakin was originaly meant to refer back to his pre-Vader self. I personaly believe that Sebastian Shaw represents a reformed post-vader, he just looks a little bit too old to represent a young Anakin Skywalker. Where good wins out though all his features are restored to the way that they would have been if he decided not to stop Windu from killing Palpatine and walk down the path of the dark side. -----signature----- I grew up on the street. No not the 'hood, the Sesame Street. Behold the power of edit! Saviour of the moron! Chewgumma for president! JC Musketeer Official Time Lord of the CCC!
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Obi-Ewan Registered: Jan '00	Date Posted: 4/15 3:12pm Subject: Who does Sebastian Shaw represent?
	He's a post-Vader Anakin. He's what Anakin looks like after 20 years of aging, and what Anakin would have looked like after all that time were all his physical features intact. -----signature----- "I am very concerned about our national heritage, and I am very concerned that the films that I watched when I was young and the films that I watched throughout my life are preserved, so that my children can see them." --George Lucas
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Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 4/15 3:16pm Subject: Who does Sebastian Shaw represent?
	Yeah that's right, show a picture of Shaw in the unmasking scene and then ask if it's supposed to be Anakin pre or post Vader. How about this Shaw? The one with all his hair and limbs? -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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Grand_Moff_Jawa Registered: May '01	Date Posted: 4/15 3:18pm Subject: Who does Sebastian Shaw represent? - Date Edited: 4/15 3:21pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Grand_Moff_Jawa
	Hey, by all means. We'll use your picture instead. I feel the outcome will be the same either way. If that picture shows Anakin post-Vader, as you just hinted at, then I guess your answer is known now. So you are the one who is confused Go-Mer. I see a striking resemblance! -----signature----- "I can't abide those Jawas... disgusting creatures"! - C3PO This sig line is [FABULOUSO!] www.outerrimsieges.com "It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." -- Carl Sagan
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Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 4/15 3:20pm Subject: Who does Sebastian Shaw represent?
	I have no doubt of that. But it doesn't matter how many of us were mistaken. That doesn't change Lucas' original intent. All it proves is that perhaps he didn't get his intention across as well as he might have liked at first. Now all is remedied with the inclusion of Hayden as the Force ghost. Now future generations will have a greater understanding of what Lucas intended. -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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Grand_Moff_Jawa Registered: May '01	Date Posted: 4/15 3:22pm Subject: Who does Sebastian Shaw represent?
	I completely and totally give up. -----signature----- "I can't abide those Jawas... disgusting creatures"! - C3PO This sig line is [FABULOUSO!] www.outerrimsieges.com "It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." -- Carl Sagan
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Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 4/15 3:23pm Subject: Who does Sebastian Shaw represent?
	You gave up in 1999. -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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Grand_Moff_Jawa Registered: May '01	Date Posted: 4/15 3:25pm Subject: Who does Sebastian Shaw represent?
	Go-Mer-Tonic posted: You gave up in 1999. Actually, I gave up in 2005, after leaving ROTS at the theater. Strike three, you're out. -----signature----- "I can't abide those Jawas... disgusting creatures"! - C3PO This sig line is [FABULOUSO!] www.outerrimsieges.com "It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." -- Carl Sagan
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Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 4/15 3:29pm Subject: Who does Sebastian Shaw represent?
	Strike 3 and -you- are out. -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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Obi-Ewan Registered: Jan '00	Date Posted: 4/15 3:41pm Subject: Who does Sebastian Shaw represent?
	Hayden Christensen is the pre-Vader Anakin. Shaw is post-Vader Anakin. He is, after all, the face we saw in the unmasking scene. It's not a stretch for anyone to recognize that we are seeing the same character in both scenes when it is, in fact, the same actor. The apperance of Anakin went through several variations in the script stage, but not one of them ever had him revert back to his age before he turned to the Dark Side. Go-Mer, any time a change is made, you have an argument ready to suggest that that was what Lucas "always intended," and that's the same thing he says any time he makes a change. He "always meant" for Greedo to shoot first, he "always meant" for Vader to be the father, he "always meant for Leia to be Luke's sister, he "always meant" for the ghost of Anakin to look younger. To the rest of us, it sounds a bit like crying wolf. You can't expect us to believe that every time he changes something, it's reverting back to his original intent rather than being another impulsive alteration. The presence or absence of his injuries is not the issue here. The original ghost reflects Anakin's actual age when he died, not his youth. -----signature----- "I am very concerned about our national heritage, and I am very concerned that the films that I watched when I was young and the films that I watched throughout my life are preserved, so that my children can see them." --George Lucas
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Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 4/15 3:42pm Subject: Who does Sebastian Shaw represent? - Date Edited: 4/15 3:43pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Go-Mer-Tonic
	To me it's a stretch because when we last saw him he had no hair and was missing all his limbs. To me it makes more sense that he represented Anakin at a time when he had all his hair and limbs. It's only crying wolf if it turns out he was lying about his original intent. If he tells the truth and nobody can disprove him, then it's not like crying wolf. -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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Obi-Ewan Registered: Jan '00	Date Posted: 4/15 4:19pm Subject: Who does Sebastian Shaw represent?
	The Hayden ghost doesn't have his prosthetic arm, does he? Neither version reflects injuried sustained during Anakin's life. His ghost, Yoda's, and Obi-Wan's are all devoid of injury, but accurately reflect their age at the time of death. The Shaw ghost is not an age reversal, merely an absence of injury. That the same actor was used in both scenes speaks volumes about his original intent. By your own admission, until recently you didn't think about it, which means it isn't really an issue. Only recently, as you rationalized that the change must be a reflection of Lucas's original intent. And that seems to be the rationalization you come to every single time: it must be Lucas's original intent. As I asked before, who put you in a position to speak for Lucas's original intent? In this case, not even Lucas has claimed that it was his original intent--and both the double use of Shaw and the development of the story suggest otherwise. In many other cases, it is clear from the writing process that Lucas's current take was not his original intent. Saying, on Lucas's behalf, that he always meant it to be the way he recently changed it to be, is something you need to prove, not something we need do disprove. -----signature----- "I am very concerned about our national heritage, and I am very concerned that the films that I watched when I was young and the films that I watched throughout my life are preserved, so that my children can see them." --George Lucas
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