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Author	Topic: Sith rule of two question...
Blade_of_Kenobi Registered: May '09	Date Posted: 5/9 4:55pm Subject: Sith rule of two question...
	Hello all, long time reader first time poster... So my question is, in the hologram chamber on the Executor in ESB, why would Sidious allow Vader to attempt to turn Luke to the darkside and become as he said "a valuable asset." Wouldn't he know that Vader is just setting him up to be overthrown? I know he senses Luke is powerful in the force but wouldn't he know Vader is just using him for his own agenda? -----signature----- There's a new sheriff in town and his name is me.
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Chewgumma Registered: Apr '09	Date Posted: 5/9 5:52pm Subject: Sith rule of two question...
	Part of the sith rule of two is to encourage betrayal, thats how the sith evolved through the years. Also in ROTJ Palpatine turns Vader's attempt at betrayal on him by encouraging Luke to use the dark side to defeat Vader and become Palpatine's padawan. -----signature----- I grew up on the street. No not the 'hood, the Sesame Street. Behold the power of edit! Saviour of the moron! Chewgumma for president! JC Musketeer Official Time Lord of the CCC!
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therufus Registered: Feb '09	Date Posted: 5/9 10:08pm Subject: Sith rule of two question...
	Luke could be an asset like Mara Jade is, or Ventress. -----signature----- Wood chuck "How much wood can I chuck?" DM "Roll a d20 and add your chucking modifier."
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MasterMonkey13 Registered: Dec '08	Date Posted: 5/10 6:43am Subject: Sith rule of two question...
	Naturally, Sidious would understand that Vader would eventually overthrow him. There is a line in ROTS where Palpy tells Yoda that Anakin would eventually be stronger than both of them. Then Yoda says something like "Too much faith you have in your new apprentice." Either way, Palpatine had to have known what was coming, and as Chewgumma said, part of the rule of two by the Sith is to encourage betrayal. -----signature----- "There is no charge for awesomeness.....or attractiveness." Former Padawan of MsLanna / now I'm a Jedi Knight! Isaiah 41:10
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DuracellEnergizer Registered: Apr '09	Date Posted: 5/10 10:23am Subject: Sith rule of two question...
	The truth is that there was no "Rule of Two" back when TESB was written. Going by the OT alone the Emperor probably would have been glad to have multiple dark siders under his rule (and maybe he did; there nothing in the movies that suggest that there weren't other Dark Lords) Palpatine only wanted Luke to kill Vader in order to turn Luke to the dark side and/or because Vader was treacherous. -----signature----- Episode I Reimagined : The Beginning http://boards.theforce.net/the_saga/b10476/30317264/p1/?1 ======================================= If KOTOR was any good, it'd be a book.
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Black-Tiger Registered: Nov '08	Date Posted: 5/10 1:28pm Subject: Sith rule of two question...
	DuracellEnergizer posted: The truth is that there was no "Rule of Two" back when TESB was written. Going by the OT alone the Emperor probably would have been glad to have multiple dark siders under his rule (and maybe he did; there nothing in the movies that suggest that there weren't other Dark Lords) Palpatine only wanted Luke to kill Vader in order to turn Luke to the dark side and/or because Vader was treacherous. Yes, that's how it was during the making of the OT, no "Rule of Two" existed at that time. That's an invention of the PT, which doesn't really exist.
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Gary_Buchenara Registered: Apr '09	Date Posted: 5/10 2:57pm Subject: Sith rule of two question...
	Yet another example of GL coming up with an idea which excites him at the time but which makes what has gone before seem awkward and brings about implausible retroactive explanations.
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Darth Dark Helmet Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Dec '99	Date Posted: 5/10 11:20pm Subject: Sith rule of two question...
	Blade_of_Kenobi posted: Hello all, long time reader first time poster... So my question is, in the hologram chamber on the Executor in ESB, why would Sidious allow Vader to attempt to turn Luke to the darkside and become as he said "a valuable asset." Wouldn't he know that Vader is just setting him up to be overthrown? I know he senses Luke is powerful in the force but wouldn't he know Vader is just using him for his own agenda? Palpatine's plan is, Vader turns Luke, then he gets Luke to kill Vader. Vader's plan is, turn Luke, use him to help kill the Emperor. Neither is going to tell the other about their plans. -----signature----- When dealing with genocide, you must ask yourself, "What would Hitler do?" And then, you know, do the opposite.
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Black-Tiger Registered: Nov '08	Date Posted: 5/11 12:32pm Subject: Sith rule of two question...
	Darth Dark Helmet posted: Palpatine's plan is, Vader turns Luke, then he gets Luke to kill Vader. Vader's plan is, turn Luke, use him to help kill the Emperor. Neither is going to tell the other about their plans. Ah yes, but if we’re going to believe in all this "Rule of Two" nonsense, then that conversation in ESB wouldn’t have happened, because Vader and Palpatine would be giving away each other’s plans to assassinate one another. "Let's recruit young Skywalker so I can kill you!"
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Arawn_Fenn Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 5/11 12:36pm Subject: Sith rule of two question... - Date Edited: 5/11 12:37pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Arawn_Fenn
	The "rule" as described in TPM isn't necessarily a doctrine of the Sith, but possibly more along the lines of an observation. At its core it just embodies the tension inherent in a triangle. -----signature----- "You're both from strange little backwater planets. You both have odd powers. You're male and she's female. What more do you need? Believe me, buddy, if I were you, I'd go right up there and ask her if she wants to ride on my rancor." - Han Solo
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halibut Title: FF GSA & FF-UK RSA / Saga Mod Registered: Aug '00	Date Posted: 5/11 1:49pm Subject: Sith rule of two question...
	Arawn_Fenn posted: The "rule" as described in TPM isn't necessarily a doctrine of the Sith, but possibly more along the lines of an observation. At its core it just embodies the tension inherent in a triangle. You lose 10 respect points for failing to quote Pirates of the Caribbean -----signature----- They are not "songs", they are "tracks" or "cues" ROTJ - "It has a nice mix of muppets and patricide that you don't see very often" - Darthboba Everybody knows that the bird is the word!
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jedimasterbac Title: CT and Fan Design Manager Registered: Jun '04	Date Posted: 5/11 6:40pm Subject: Sith rule of two question...
	halibut posted: Arawn_Fenn posted: The "rule" as described in TPM isn't necessarily a doctrine of the Sith, but possibly more along the lines of an observation. At its core it just embodies the tension inherent in a triangle. You lose 10 respect points for failing to quote Pirates of the Caribbean They're more like guidelines than actual rules. -----signature----- Star Wars: Episode I - The Chosen One (my fan fic) http://boards.theforce.net/the_saga/b10476/30225011/p1/?3
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Darth_Nub Registered: Apr '09	Date Posted: 5/11 8:25pm Subject: Sith rule of two question...
	Palpatine wasn't stupid, he contacted Vader almost to say, "I know that you know - don't step out of line, matey." I think he was also arrogant enough to consider himself the master Dark Side manipulator, so he figured, "Let the dog go after his kid, one of them will kill the other, I'll keep whoever's left." Better to do it out in the open than have Vader perhaps plotting behind his back. The Rule Of Two doesn't necesarily apply in this situation as a 'rule', as it hadn't been established, but it's interesting to look at it as a situation which, perhaps, inspired the Rule itself. -----signature----- "First you must fill your head with wisdom. Then you can hit ice with it."
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Darth Dark Helmet Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Dec '99	Date Posted: 5/12 8:24am Subject: Sith rule of two question...
	Black-Tiger posted: Darth Dark Helmet posted: Palpatine's plan is, Vader turns Luke, then he gets Luke to kill Vader. Vader's plan is, turn Luke, use him to help kill the Emperor. Neither is going to tell the other about their plans. Ah yes, but if we’re going to believe in all this "Rule of Two" nonsense, then that conversation in ESB wouldn’t have happened, because Vader and Palpatine would be giving away each other’s plans to assassinate one another. "Let's recruit young Skywalker so I can kill you!" You think Palpatine doesn't know that Vader has spent the last 20+ years trying to find a way to kill him so he can take over the Empire? And Vader doesn't think Palpatine has been waiting for someone to come along who isn't trapped in a massive life support suit? They've both been looking for a way to kill each other since about an hour after Vader turned to the dark side, they just don't discuss it outright. -----signature----- When dealing with genocide, you must ask yourself, "What would Hitler do?" And then, you know, do the opposite.
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Sven_Starcrown Registered: Mar '09	Date Posted: 5/13 8:48am Subject: Sith rule of two question...
	D D Helmet posted: They've both been looking for a way to kill each other since about an hour after Vader turned to the dark side, they just don't discuss it outright. Sidious can kill Vader almost anytime. -----signature----- Nobody's perfect. There was never a perfect person around. You just have half-angel and half-devil in you.
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Hernalt Registered: Jun '00	Date Posted: 5/13 2:12pm Subject: Sith rule of two question...
	"Star Wars - From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker" (1976): "Two meters tall, bipedal. Flowing black robes trailing from the figure and a face forever masked by a function if bizarre black metal breath screen - a Dark Lord of the Sith was an awesome, threatening shape as it strode through the corridors of the rebel ship. [PP] Fear followed the footsteps of all the Dark Lords. The cloud of evil which hung about this particular one was intense enough to cause hardened Imperial troops to back away..." This penned by the genius of Lucas in his prime. The core principles of Dark Side, hate, fear and anger, are courses of least resistance, i.e., greatest expedience. A rule is a form of resistance, and the Sith follow paths of least resistance. Therefore the Rule of Two is not an inherently acting principle so much as it is an hypothetical generalization of a tendency. The Prequel could still map to the original trilogy if, perhaps, the Jedi Council was hasty in rigorously assuming that the Rule of Two was a mathematical and numerological fact.
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