Jedi Council Forums - What is wrong with the Ewoks? What is wrong with ROTJ? Logical arguments, please.

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Author	Topic: What is wrong with the Ewoks? What is wrong with ROTJ? Logical arguments, please.
BaronLandoCalrissian Registered: Jun '06	Date Posted: 5/14 3:18pm Subject: What is wrong with the Ewoks? What is wrong with ROTJ? Logical arguments, please.
	On the Jedi commentary, Lucas goes out of his way to say that the ewoks don't really "win" anything, they only cause just enough mayhem to allow the rest of the good guys to do their thing. The problem is mostly in the execution which is SO cheap and unconvincing (which includes the empire's side of the battle too). It's by far the most significant thing in any of the 6 movies that could actually benefit from the advances in technology for the 3D version.
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Grand_Moff_Jawa Registered: May '01	Date Posted: 5/14 5:57pm Subject: What is wrong with the Ewoks? What is wrong with ROTJ? Logical arguments, please. - Date Edited: 5/14 6:00pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Grand_Moff_Jawa
	I never really had an issue with the Ewoks. It was sort of funny back in 1983 to see the Empire get a butt-kicking by little teddy bears. I always understood the reasoning for the Ewoks being there; to show that all the technology in the world (Empire) can still be overthrown by the unlikeliest of things. The Empire didn't feel the indigenous beings on the moon to be of any threat, which was their big mistake. The thing about ROTJ as a whole that's always bothered me was the tone of the movie, compared to the first two. I've never been able to fully explain myself on this, but ROTJ felt more "Hollywood" than the first two. A New Hope almost played like a documentary in a way. It was like Tatooine always existed and we went there to film it. Empire expanded on that feel and introduced us to new, mysterious places. ROTJ took place on Tatooine first, a place we were familiar with already, then moved to Endor, a place very familiar in appearance as well. The Death Star was also familiar to us, we just got to see more of it this time around. There were too many light-hearted moments in ROTJ. The worst being when the Rancor gets killed and the keeper starts bawling his eyes out. That crying is downright silly. The newer dance number in the palace is even more silly. Boba Fett falling into the Sarlacc, then hearing a burp, was goofy. Threepio was turned into a real wimp in this movie. I dunno, the tone was just different all around. It didn't have that same "magic" of the first two. -----signature----- "I can't abide those Jawas... disgusting creatures"! - C3PO This sig line is [FABULOUSO!] www.outerrimsieges.com "It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." -- Carl Sagan
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MasterMonkey13 Registered: Dec '08	Date Posted: 5/14 8:12pm Subject: What is wrong with the Ewoks? What is wrong with ROTJ? Logical arguments, please. - Date Edited: 5/14 8:15pm (1 edits total) Edited By: MasterMonkey13
	Really, the only point I'm trying to make is that I know of some people who didn't like the Ewoks and small band of Rebels seemingly beating the Empire. Not trying to be cynical or anything, personally, I don't mind the Ewoks. Just, trying to answer the originally posted question, I brought up the point that some people don't like the Ewoks. -----signature----- "There is no charge for awesomeness.....or attractiveness." Former Padawan of MsLanna / now I'm a Jedi Knight! Isaiah 41:10
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Tai_Hyll Registered: Sep '08	Date Posted: 5/15 12:35am Subject: What is wrong with the Ewoks? What is wrong with ROTJ? Logical arguments, please.
	Every girl I have known has loved the ewoks. Infact, the girl I am currently with has never seen a Star Wars movie and we have now watched the whole original trilogy and after she saw the ewoks she has become obsessed with Star Wars so they are alright in my book. Now for the sake of the movie itself, they were fine. I liked them a lot as a kid and still do. Lucas wanted to show that primitive creatures could over power the empire. He wanted to have a huge underdog story from my understanding. Anyways it was just a small battle. I think the space battle and Vader overthrowing the Emperor(litterally) and redeeming himself was more impactful.
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Arawn_Fenn Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 5/15 6:54am Subject: What is wrong with the Ewoks? What is wrong with ROTJ? Logical arguments, please.
	In Battlefront the Ewoks are just window-dressing. They run around and make noise, but they don't really seem to affect anything. In Battlefront II, not only do the Ewoks make it unreasonably difficult for the Empire to maintain command posts, but they repeatedly knock down the Chosen One - the Dark Lord of the Sith - the most midichlorianated person in recorded Jedi history - with slingshots. The truth is somewhere in between. -----signature----- "Just when you think the amount of fail cannot possibly increase, the Internet keeps on giving." - SalvorHardin "Let's see them argue with nature and persuade the nonexistent polar bears not to eat them." - crownarmourer
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MagicSpork Registered: May '04	Date Posted: 5/23 10:40am Subject: What is wrong with the Ewoks? What is wrong with ROTJ? Logical arguments, please.
	Come on, the stormtroopers had blasters. Ewoks had sticks and rocks. The fact that the stormtroopers even had trouble with the Ewoks shows how much they suck. You give the Stormtroopers the same weapons, and the Ewoks stomp them into the ground. Ewoks >> Stormtroopers END OF DISCUSSION -----signature----- Hey...who's scruffy looking?!
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DarthIktomi Registered: May '09	Date Posted: 5/24 9:50am Subject: What is wrong with the Ewoks? What is wrong with ROTJ? Logical arguments, please.
	You forgot how ROTJ should've been two movies at least. The first act didn't tie together with the second act the way ESB tied "The Rebels are thrown out of their base. Han and Leia are captured. Luke gives up his Jedi training to save them, learns Vader's his father, and almost gets them all killed."
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Jedi Vince Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 5/24 10:55am Subject: What is wrong with the Ewoks? What is wrong with ROTJ? Logical arguments, please.
	I know this isn't the answer for the topic's question, but I think the Battle of Endor does a great job of showing just how extensive the conflict was. It even reached the most primitive of cultures. It was actually quite fascinating to see the most technologically advanced entity in combat against primitive beings. -----signature----- The PIGMAN: Drawing the line against Jihad http://fawstin.blogspot.com/ http://www.jihadwatch.org/ Don't tread on me.
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Hernalt Registered: Jun '00	Date Posted: 5/24 12:44pm Subject: What is wrong with the Ewoks? What is wrong with ROTJ? Logical arguments, please.
	Fascinating angle of attack, DarthIktomi. The climax of ANH ("You're all clear kid!") is foreshadowed in the crawl and by an early scene of Imperial brass debating the DS's pros and cons. The setting for the climax is necessarily foreshadowed as being at the rebels' 'hidden fortress'. The climax of ESB ("I am your father") is foreshadowed early on only by the opening crawl where 'Vader is obsessed with finding young Skywalker'. You don't get a Vader scene till 20 minutes in, where he confirms the crawl's assertion, "I'm sure Skywalker is with them." The setting for the climax in Bespin is not necessarily foreshadowed in the beginning; it is a discovery. The climax of ROTJ (Vader's turn as evidenced by his human skull being illuminated) is foreshadowed..... Well, not in the crawl. And not precisely in the scene where Vader says the Emperor is coming to town. You must wait 40 minutes, and then the Emperor says "In time he will seek you out. And you must bring him before me." Then Yoda, "You must confront Vader. ... Your father he is." The setting for the climax on DSII is not necessarily foreshadowed in the beginning; it is a discovery. The pertinent thematic thread I see stitching the first to last half is that ESB Luke should have completed his training and not given into attachment to his friends, and ROTJ first-half Luke was still doing the same thing, running off to save his friends without first having completed his training (and you can tell some time at least passed between ESB and ROTJ). And then ROTJ second-half Luke is revealed to have passed his 'technical proficiency exam' but has one Kobayoshi Maru / Gom Jabbar yet to take. What is more, neither Yoda nor Obi-Wan saw salvageable, humane material in Anakin, so Luke's choice to try to save Anakin is a discovery. But nowhere prior to this is this telescoped or foreshadowed. I can't defend ROTJ against your specific argument.
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Drac39 Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 5/24 7:50pm Subject: What is wrong with the Ewoks? What is wrong with ROTJ? Logical arguments, please.
	I actually think ROTJ is a very strong conclusion and entry in the trilogy. What it needs is some editing to correct a few pacing problems. The Han Solo rescue is far too long and needs a hatchet in the editing room. The Ewoks I think are an easy scapegoat, they aren't Gungan bad -----signature----- "That's all there is to life, just a little laugh... a little tear"- Lon Chaney
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DarthIktomi Registered: May '09	Date Posted: 5/24 8:56pm Subject: What is wrong with the Ewoks? What is wrong with ROTJ? Logical arguments, please.
	You forgot that Vader pretty much foreshadows the climax of ANH in particular. "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force." Seriously, I like ROTJ. It's my third-favorite SW movie. LOL But it did seem random that they go from saving Han to blowing up a second Death Star. But yeah, in light of the PT, Luke's attachments are more and more relevant to ROTJ.
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Blur Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 5/26 10:16am Subject: What is wrong with the Ewoks? What is wrong with ROTJ? Logical arguments, please. - Date Edited: 5/26 10:19am (2 edits total) Edited By: Blur
	First of all, I want to mention that I truly enjoy the first half of ROTJ with Jabba's palace, Han's rescue, etc. Jabba's creatures are, for the most part, very interesting and these throne room "creature feature" scenes seem like an homage to the similar ensemble Cantina scene in ANH. Also, Jabba the Hutt himself is an incredible design (one of the coolest alien designs in sci-fi), and looks both menacing and disgusting at the same time. And, the story/plot here was great as well. It was very clever to have Lando, the Droids, Leia & Chewie, and then Luke infiltrating their way into the palace in order to rescue Han - this reminded me slightly of the old "Mission Impossible" series (but much better, of course). Also, the sail barge battle sequences were great - very suspenseful, especially the scenes (and music) leading up to Artoo propelling the hidden lightsaber to Luke. (And, I don't mind the "Special Edition additions" that were added to these scenes back in 1997.) However, the second half of the film didn't work for several reasons: - The Ewoks are visually and conceptually very inappropriate in a SW film. Note this is not because we see a primitive group of creatures defeating a larger and technologically superior force (something we have seen before in Earth's history), but because of the physical appearance of the Ewoks - as has been said many times before, having cute and cuddly teddy bears be the ones that go against the stormtroopers visually just doesn't work - it looks ridiculous, and the cute Ewoks are extremely out of place in a SW film, based on what we saw in ANH and ESB (both of which were, overall, very serious films). I think the original idea of having Wookies as the group that went against the Imperials would've worked great, but I completely understand that this wasn't done was for financial and logistical reasons - Back in 1982 (when ROTJ was filmed), CGI was very primitive, and therefore it would have been very tough (if not impossible) to find and outfit a group of 7-foot tall performers to play the part of the Wookies (of course, this idea was resurrected and modified for the great Wookie battle scene in ROTS). This all being said, I think the inclusion of the Ewoks would have worked if they had visually looked differently - in the initial scene when the heroes have just fallen out of the net-trap, there are a group of Ewoks cautiously approaching them - one of them (Teebo?) looks very menacing and warrior-like. If they had all looked similar to this Ewok, the movie would have been great. Instead, they all looked similar to Wicket W. Warrick and Chief Chirpa. Going along with this, as the movie now stands I think it could definitely be improved if the whole sequence with Leia meeting Wicket had been completely edited out of the film. Though it serves as an explanation for why Leia ended up in the Ewok village, IMHO it would have been much better to just show Leia passing out after the Speeder Bike crashed, and then showing up in the village later (as we saw). This scene with her and Wicket just reinforces the "cutesy-ness" of the Ewoks, and I don't feel it's necessary for the story. - Han Solo's one liners and "witty" remarks. Though I could deal with this in the Jabba's palace and Sail barge sequences, the character's silly remarks ("And don't take all day", "Hey, it's me!", "I told you this was gonna work"), clumsiness (stepping on the twigs and alerting the Biker Scouts), etc. were very over-the-top in the second half of the film, and IMHO took away from the seriousness of the movie.
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halibut Title: FF GSA & FF-UK RSA / Saga Mod Registered: Aug '00	Date Posted: 5/26 10:21am Subject: What is wrong with the Ewoks? What is wrong with ROTJ? Logical arguments, please.
	Blur posted: especially the scenes (and music) leading up to Artoo propelling the hidden lightsaber to Luke. My absolute favouite part of the whole saga! -----signature----- They are not "songs", they are "tracks" or "cues" ROTJ - "It has a nice mix of muppets and patricide that you don't see very often" - Darthboba Everybody knows that the bird is the word!
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Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 5/26 10:23am Subject: What is wrong with the Ewoks? What is wrong with ROTJ? Logical arguments, please.
	I kind of liked how the Cuteness of the Ewoks betrayed their vicious demeanor. Sure, they look cute, but they were going to eat Han, Luke and Chewbacca. Get that? Ewoks eat Wookies for breakfast. -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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Darthdias Registered: Aug '04	Date Posted: 5/26 2:17pm Subject: What is wrong with the Ewoks? What is wrong with ROTJ? Logical arguments, please.
	Go-Mer-Tonic posted: Nothing is wrong with the Ewoks. They didn't defeat the Empire (in fact the Empire was decimating them). I think some people just inherently have problems with anything that is light hearted. Where exactly did the Empire decimate the ewoks (besides in the novel)? By my count, 1 (one) measly ewok died on screen. In contrast, plenty of stormies are shown to be killed by ewoks. The audiance will accept what they see with their own eyes as the truth, so you can't say "plenty of ewoks died off-screen", because it's all about perception. If many ewoks died, they should have showed us this. And I do think there's a difference between light hearted and childish. IMO, ANH is light hearted. ROTJ is childish.
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