Hernalt posted:Salient dialogue from DVD: "No, my father didn't fight in the wars. He was a navigator on a spice freighter. ... That's what your uncle told you. He didn't hold with your father's ideals - Thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved. ... Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it. He feared you might follow old Obi-Wan on some damn fool idealistic crusade like your father did." Darth-sinister, if I tilt my head sideways and squint I agree that your posted POV mechanically stitches the two films in terms of what the camera blocked and what characters were present at what times. But now that we know what the "Clone Wars" were all about (or, in the case of re-viewing the 1977 film named simply "Star Wars", what the Clone Wars Had Been all about), what I don't get is the two references to idealism. What was idealistic about the Clone Wars? Their purpose, if one can be summed, was to preserve the democratic and representative Republic, even at the Faustian cost of building an army of conscienceless, blindly obedient fodder. The Clone troops deployed to preserve the Republic did not themselves represent or derive from the public at all, and were closer to Hessians than to a National Guard. Owen felt that Anakin shouldn't have left to fight in a war that he was going to lose. I do not see where the camera in AOTC telescopes or foreshadows this. It makes sense that the name "Anakin Skywalker" might show up on a list of dead Jedi, news of which might find its way to the Outer Rim. But in the moment of Anakin's leaving Tatooine, all that Owen could have known was that the Republic, of which Tatooine was no part, was having trouble retaining all its constituency. In terms of the attempted Jedi coup that was promulgated by the Chancellor at the end of ROTS (3+ years after AOTC?), Owen could only at that time have gained enough data to formulate an opinion about Anakin's leaving Tatooine, 3+ years earlier, that had anything to do with the "idealism" component of his being a Jedi, whether that was idealism fighting _Alongside_ Clone troops, whose origin and mechanism contradicted their published purpose, or idealism trying to _Stop_ the Chancellor from handcrafting the Empire. (Here I assume ANH Owen is as dissatisfied with the Empire is every other non-Rebel reference to its oppressiveness, from the likes of Luke, Han, Lando, not to mention Tarkin). Luke's question was about the Clone Wars, not a Jedi coup/purge, and Obi Wan logically would only refer to the Clone Wars, and not a Jedi coup/purge, in his reply. Luke learns about the Jedi purge only after he learns about the 'idealistic crusade'. While re-watching ANH, I'm ok attributing to Owen Lars some additional underlying emotions concerning the dangers Luke might face, and your posted POV maps well for the most part to the scenes with just Owen and Beru concerning him staying on another season (deft). I don't think the 'idealistic crusade' aspect of the Clone Wars is spelled out yet. Heh. I have to mention what certainly not a single of all here has failed to hear about or personally observe, but which bears amusement, being ANH 30:07 to 30:10, where Alec Guinness's eyes go slowly down Luke's legs and linger on his feet, while saying, "Rest easy son - you've had a busy day. You're fortunate to be all in one piece!" Whether by accident or design, this is an example where the old wine is made better by the new.
Hernalt posted:Thank you, all, for every response so far. I'm basically on board with the general direction of the POVs offered, but I still have a question or two. CaptainYossarian writes, Owen and Beru have to take care of him. Darth-Sinister writes, force Owen to take care of his kid I may be coldly pragmatic in this circumstance but I don't sense any overriding compulsion that Owen and Beru MUST become THE foster parents for infant Luke. Obviously Owen is related to the one husband that Shmi ever had, and Luke is Shmi's grandson. But this is a bond solely through marriage, and both parties (Cliegg and Shmi) are dead by the time Obi-Wan arrives with infant Luke. Obi-Wan could have taken Luke to any number of places in the galaxy, and could certainly have raised him himself for that matter. If necessary and sufficient reasons could show that Owen was under duress or compulsion to raise his non-genetic 'nephew', then the line might snick into place.
Hernalt posted:(And more importantly, who is turning Yoda's chair as he speaks alternately to Bail and then Obi-Wan?)
Hernalt posted:Thank you all for the earnest and intelligent responses. Thank you, CaptainYossarian, for supplying the reference to ROTS Yoda, which helps me wash my hands of this issue and bill its questionable realism to Lucas' account. ROTS 02:09:25 "And what of the boy? ... To Tatooine, to his family send him. ... I will take the child and watch over him." (And more importantly, who is turning Yoda's chair as he speaks alternately to Bail and then Obi-Wan?) Through Yoda's words, Lucas' in-universe assertion is that a marriage bond that existed between relatives that are now both dead by some years (3?) still dictates a familial attachment that is tantamount to the quality or quantity of genetic representation that in evolutionary terms, and in terms of Hamilton's Rule, generally equates to the highest parental investment. Owen Lars shares zero documented genetic heritage with the Skywalkers, had known Shmi for five years 3-ish years ago, whose only link to Shmi is now dead, had been in Anakin's presence for only 48 hours 3-ish years ago, and is now expected, per Lucas' assertion channeled through Yoda's valedictory omniscience, to somehow respond to the prospect of raising Anakin's infant son with some simulacrum of a fatherly or at least uncle-esque devotion. Whether this is explicitly born out in ANH is now besides the point, because Lucas cut to commercial and called them all "family", which is a more mythically resonant term than "step-family". Lucas already cut to commercial, so I'll log my observation without arguing in its favor. The line "damned-fool idealistic crusade" carries more emotional energy than the line "idealistic crusade". In Freudian terms it carries more cathexis or emotional attachment. The thread's general consensus of exegesis of "damned-fool idealistic crusade" only makes hermetically-sealed sense to me if 1) Owen himself felt a devotion to Luke tantamount to the genetic representation an uncle or father might have in a child, or 2) Owen was forced by some legalese next-of-adoptive-kin logic to raise the grandchild of his father's once-wife, so that the emotional anger at his own obligation to do something evolutionarily altruistic, or idealistic, would find its way into the phrase as an unseen result of Freudian projection. Whether or not the specific words Obi-Wan used were Owen's, what matters is that we trust that Obi-Wan accurately represented Owen's emotional or attitudinal state. If it could be documented that 3) Owen did _Not_ have a simulacrum of fatherly or uncle-esque devotion tantamount to fatherly or uncle-esque genetic representation, and was rather the recipient of some unforeseen stork-fodder upon a random twin sun summer's eve that happened to be the accidental grandchild of his dead father's dead wife from five years back, and Owen had raised him not for virtue of genetic representation but by the cold equations of fiscal interest as persistent farm capital and not seasonal human resource, and was averse to letting his persistent farm capital cheat out on him before he had got his goddamned 20 years of labor out of him - then I would be utterly on board with this thread's general consensus of exegesis. This could be more probable if it had turned out that Owen and Beru themselves could not produce children (citing reproductive trends of agricultural populations). There is nothing in the original 1977 "Star Wars" that leads me to believe that Owen, the grown man, gave a personally autographed limited edition rat's ass about his nephew, other than what thoroughly cleaned droids with nary a power converter, what obediently shut mouth about his father, what agreeable oblivion from that crazy old wizard, what thoroughly wiped R2 units because they belong to "us", what cooperation in shutting down power, what repaired units in the south range before there's hell to pay...might by themselves garner. Using another angle on the same "belongs to us" line, compare Owen's body language in ROTS upon receiving the infant with his order, "...have its memory erased. That'll be the end of it. It belongs to us now".