Author Topic: Wookiees In ROTJ Could Have Worked
DuracellEnergizer  368 posts
Registered: Apr '09
14798_Luke Skywalker
Date Posted: 6/7 2:48pm Subject: Wookiees In ROTJ Could Have Worked - Date Edited: 6/7 2:52pm (4 edits total) Edited By: DuracellEnergizer
Most Star Wars fans know that Wookiees were originally going to be in ROTJ, but that Lucas changed them into Ewoks.

His reasoning behind the change? Well, he wanted the Wookiee/Imperial battle to draw parallels between the Viet Cong/US military conflict during the Vietnam War - namingly that a primitive society could defeat a far more technologically advanced enemy. But since Chewie was shown to have mechanical skills in ANH and TESB (and because the Wookiees were shown to have technology in the Holiday Special, I suppose) Lucas decided to replace the Wookiees with a new species - the dwarfish Ewoks.

But Lucas could have still had Wookiees put into ROTJ. Here are two scenarios that could have been used to get around the "Wookiee = advanced" issue:


1. Slave traders visited the Wookiee homeworld and kidnapped Chewbacca, taking him from his home and selling him into slavery. The Wookiees could have been pre-technological primitives, but Chewbacca learned how to operate and fix technology while offworld in service to his owners.

2. A group of Wookiees left their homeworld in the distant past and established a colony on Endor. For one reason or another they lost the ability to operate and create their technology, resulting in them devolving to a pre-technological level. Chewbacca - and his people - would have an understanding of technology, but the Endorian Wookiees wouldn't.


I can't see why Lucas didn't go one of these or a similar route while making ROTJ. Resorting to using Ewoks as a replacement was sort of a drastic move.

 

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DarthIktomi  1380 posts
Registered: May '09
19073_Luke and Mara Family
Date Posted: 6/7 3:56pm Subject: Wookiees In ROTJ Could Have Worked
Yeah, but there's still that damn holiday special...

 

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black_saber  3366 posts
Registered: Apr '02
41210_Palpatine
Date Posted: 6/7 7:00pm Subject: Wookiees In ROTJ Could Have Worked
DuracellEnergizer posted:
Most Star Wars fans know that Wookiees were originally going to be in ROTJ, but that Lucas changed them into Ewoks.

His reasoning behind the change? Well, he wanted the Wookiee/Imperial battle to draw parallels between the Viet Cong/US military conflict during the Vietnam War - namingly that a primitive society could defeat a far more technologically advanced enemy. But since Chewie was shown to have mechanical skills in ANH and TESB (and because the Wookiees were shown to have technology in the Holiday Special, I suppose) Lucas decided to replace the Wookiees with a new species - the dwarfish Ewoks.

But Lucas could have still had Wookiees put into ROTJ. Here are two scenarios that could have been used to get around the "Wookiee = advanced" issue:


1. Slave traders visited the Wookiee homeworld and kidnapped Chewbacca, taking him from his home and selling him into slavery. The Wookiees could have been pre-technological primitives, but Chewbacca learned how to operate and fix technology while offworld in service to his owners.

2. A group of Wookiees left their homeworld in the distant past and established a colony on Endor. For one reason or another they lost the ability to operate and create their technology, resulting in them devolving to a pre-technological level. Chewbacca - and his people - would have an understanding of technology, but the Endorian Wookiees wouldn't.


I can't see why Lucas didn't go one of these or a similar route while making ROTJ. Resorting to using Ewoks as a replacement was sort of a drastic move.


I think wookies would of been a good Idea.

 

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Gary_Buchenara  393 posts
Registered: Apr '09
8068_R5-D4
Date Posted: 6/7 7:25pm Subject: Wookiees In ROTJ Could Have Worked
I think it would've worked well. It wouldn't have been all that hard to retain the primitive v technologically advanced theme with the Wookiees instead of the Ewoks.

 

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eht13  672 posts
Registered: Sep '07
Date Posted: 6/7 7:37pm Subject: Wookiees In ROTJ Could Have Worked
Gary_Buchenara posted:
I think it would've worked well. It wouldn't have been all that hard to retain the primitive v technologically advanced theme with the Wookiees instead of the Ewoks.
I agree. It also would have been a lot easier to accept Wookiees beating the Stormtroopers than Ewoks doing so.

 

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voodoopuuduu  6889 posts
Title: Classic Trilogy Trivia Host
Registered: Mar '04
48595_Chewbacca Brian
Date Posted: 6/7 7:40pm Subject: Wookiees In ROTJ Could Have Worked
1. Slave traders visited the Wookiee homeworld and kidnapped Chewbacca, taking him from his home and selling him into slavery. The Wookiees could have been pre-technological primitives, but Chewbacca learned how to operate and fix technology while offworld in service to his owners.

I would have liked this option the best. It would have shown the Wookiees to be primitive, yet still capable of using advanced technology if shown how to.

 

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black_saber  3366 posts
Registered: Apr '02
41210_Palpatine
Date Posted: 6/7 8:26pm Subject: Wookiees In ROTJ Could Have Worked
eht13 posted:
Gary_Buchenara posted:
I think it would've worked well. It wouldn't have been all that hard to retain the primitive v technologically advanced theme with the Wookiees instead of the Ewoks.
I agree. It also would have been a lot easier to accept Wookiees beating the Stormtroopers than Ewoks doing so.


I sometimes Wonder if half of the Ewoks where Killed.

 

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DarthIktomi  1380 posts
Registered: May '09
19073_Luke and Mara Family
Date Posted: 6/8 9:59am Subject: Wookiees In ROTJ Could Have Worked
We see ONE DEAD EWOK! One of the crazier things Lucas did. Only one! Why, George? I would figure the Empire would kill a lot more of them, if they could kill 32 out of 36 Rebels assaulting the Death Star.

 

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CaptainYossarian  316 posts
Registered: Mar '03
7956_Bo Shek
Date Posted: 6/8 3:06pm Subject: Wookiees In ROTJ Could Have Worked
The idea of a Wookiee planet goes back to the drafts of ANH where the Rebels would enlist their help in fighting the Empire. A lot of elements got condensed into the single script for ANH such as the Death Star battle but the Rebels being aided by primitive creatures was left out. When there was a second Death Star written into ROTJ the idea resurfaced. Lucas had already made Wookiees into a technological species though so needed a different species for Endor. There's not really any doubt that Wookiees "could have worked" or that their presence could be explained away but that wasn't really what Lucas wanted to do. Wookiees had already been conceptualised differently so it would seem to be a bit pointless to take the time explaining why there were other Wookiees on Endor. So having Ewoks was a way of keeping the spirit of the original furry, forest dwelling species and ensuring you could have lots of them within the budget.

Making them small was a way of making them stand out given the role they were going to have in the story. It's a point often overlooked that you're not supposed to see the Ewoks as a species capable of taking on the Imperial forces and winning. The Rebels themselves don't believe that the Ewoks will be very effective. They laugh when they're captured by them and Han later remarks that they're better than no help at all. So like the characters, you're not really supposed to see them as great warriors who'll be able to help much. However, the point about Ewoks is that they used their courage, knowledge and skills to make up for what they lacked in strength. They were unlikely warriors but they used what they had and managed to do quite well in keeping the Imperials occupied. Wookiees obviously look like they could take on the Empire, and their strength and abilities have already been mentioned in the OT so with them you don't get the extra sentiment that you do with Ewoks.

It's a misapprehension to think that Lucas somehow had to 'resort' to having Ewoks because he was stumped as to how to write Wookiees into the story. He could've had Wookiees but he didn't want to for various reasons. The Ewoks were designed that way specifically to appear less than capable in the face of Imperial superiority, thus magnifying the fact that they had to rely on things other than brute strength and technology. That in itself is a more extreme reflection of the fight that the Rebel Alliance has been engaged in for the whole trilogy. It also serves to highlight the Empire's weaknesses. They didn't simply get beaten by an enemy on a level field, rather they were kept at bay by an unlikely and much more inferior foe because they underestimated them and couldn't deal with the tactics they used. You can see that basic sentiment realted to the Rebel/Empire conflict elsewhere in the OT - ie the Empire doesn't consider a one-man fighter to be any threat and so the Death Star turbolasers can't properly target the Rebel ships in ANH.



DarthIktomi posted:
We see ONE DEAD EWOK! One of the crazier things Lucas did. Only one! Why, George? I would figure the Empire would kill a lot more of them, if they could kill 32 out of 36 Rebels assaulting the Death Star.


Only one Ewok may be seen definitely dead but it's implied there could be more. There's the one on the glider and you see one fall down after being hit by an explosion and others being tackled directly by stormtroopers. Another point is that after the initial melee outside the bunker the Ewoks intentionally led the Imperials into the denser forests where they would have an advantage. Less Ewoks died then because they weren't fighting the Imperials so directly, but striking quickly and hiding and keeping them occupied whilst the Rebels dealt with the bunker.

 

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DuracellEnergizer  368 posts
Registered: Apr '09
14798_Luke Skywalker
Date Posted: 6/8 4:50pm Subject: Wookiees In ROTJ Could Have Worked - Date Edited: 6/8 4:59pm (3 edits total) Edited By: DuracellEnergizer
CaptainYossarian posted:
Wookiees had already been conceptualised differently so it would seem to be a bit pointless to take the time explaining why there were other Wookiees on Endor.


How so? Chewbacca is the only Wookiee shown in the original films, and there is no description of his species lifestyle given. The Holiday Special can be ignored since it isn't part of the main film series and Lucas hates it anyway. And as I said, just because Chewie has a working knowledge of technology doesn't mean his entire species does.

CaptainYossarian posted:
It also serves to highlight the Empire's weaknesses. They didn't simply get beaten by an enemy on a level field, rather they were kept at bay by an unlikely and much more inferior foe because they underestimated them and couldn't deal with the tactics they used.


Is it actually shown that the Empire underestimated the Ewoks? I don't even remember any Imperials commenting on the Ewoks' intelligence, tactics, etc.


Regardless, this thread is about whether Lucas could have plausibly had Wookiees in ROTJ, not should he have.

 

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voodoopuuduu  6889 posts
Title: Classic Trilogy Trivia Host
Registered: Mar '04
48595_Chewbacca Brian
Date Posted: 6/8 10:33pm Subject: Wookiees In ROTJ Could Have Worked
Is it actually shown that the Empire underestimated the Ewoks? I don't even remember any Imperials commenting on the Ewoks' intelligence, tactics, etc.

Yeah, I dont think the Empire underestimated the Ewoks. Without Hans, Leias, Chewbaccas, R2s help (and a tiny bit from Luke and 3CPO), they were no threat at all. And remember, the Ewoks wanted to eat them for dinner. shock tongue

Sure, they could trip up and smash a few AT-STs. But they couldnt drive or fire them. Under normal circumstances, the AT-STs would have been quickly replaced by the Empire.

If anything, the Emporer did underestimate Lukes faith in his friends.

 

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Artoo-Dion  60 posts
Registered: Jun '09
6241_R2-D2
Date Posted: 6/9 3:37am Subject: Wookiees In ROTJ Could Have Worked
DuracellEnergizer posted:
1. Slave traders visited the Wookiee homeworld and kidnapped Chewbacca, taking him from his home and selling him into slavery. The Wookiees could have been pre-technological primitives, but Chewbacca learned how to operate and fix technology while offworld in service to his owners.

2. A group of Wookiees left their homeworld in the distant past and established a colony on Endor. For one reason or another they lost the ability to operate and create their technology, resulting in them devolving to a pre-technological level. Chewbacca - and his people - would have an understanding of technology, but the Endorian Wookiees wouldn't.


Beyond what CaptainYossarian said (with which I agree), both of the above seem contrived and, frankly, clunky. The exposition needed would stop the film dead in its tracks and elicit a "What the...?" from the general audience. The Ewoks are clearly identifiable as "primitives" by appearance alone -- no exposition necessary.

 

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DuracellEnergizer  368 posts
Registered: Apr '09
14798_Luke Skywalker
Date Posted: 6/9 1:39pm Subject: Wookiees In ROTJ Could Have Worked
Artoo-Dion posted:
Beyond what CaptainYossarian said (with which I agree), both of the above seem contrived and, frankly, clunky. The exposition needed would stop the film dead in its tracks and elicit a "What the...?" from the general audience. The Ewoks are clearly identifiable as "primitives" by appearance alone -- no exposition necessary.


I agree that my second idea would be a little harder to put into play. But it's not hard at all to say that Chewie was a slave who was taken from a planet of primitives until Han freed him or something.

 

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Artoo-Dion  60 posts
Registered: Jun '09
6241_R2-D2
Date Posted: 6/9 2:53pm Subject: Wookiees In ROTJ Could Have Worked
DuracellEnergizer posted:
I agree that my second idea would be a little harder to put into play. But it's not hard at all to say that Chewie was a slave who was taken from a planet of primitives until Han freed him or something.


It's old SW lore and so I get where you're coming from, but really, doesn't the Ewok idea -- dwarf-sized primitive teddy bears defeating the mighty Empire -- fit better, thematically, than giant Wookiees ripping Stormtroopers' arms out of their sockets?

One of the major themes of SW is that looks can be deceiving. The strange old hermit and funny little swamp creature are both Jedi warriors; the kindly Senator is a Sith Lord; the beautiful city in the clouds is a trap where Han will be tortured. The Wookiees, by ROTJ, were well-established as being quite physically intimidating, and so their presence would have undermined that thematic continuity.

 

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DuracellEnergizer  368 posts
Registered: Apr '09
14798_Luke Skywalker
Date Posted: 6/9 7:30pm Subject: Wookiees In ROTJ Could Have Worked - Date Edited: 6/9 7:31pm (1 edits total) Edited By: DuracellEnergizer
Artoo-Dion posted:
It's old SW lore and so I get where you're coming from, but really, doesn't the Ewok idea -- dwarf-sized primitive teddy bears defeating the mighty Empire -- fit better, thematically, than giant Wookiees ripping Stormtroopers' arms out of their sockets?


It would be a whole lot easier to swallow if at least their primitive Stone Age arrows hadn't been able to pierce supposedly advanced stormtrooper armour.

 

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Gary_Buchenara  393 posts
Registered: Apr '09
8068_R5-D4
Date Posted: 6/9 7:35pm Subject: Wookiees In ROTJ Could Have Worked
The primitives overcoming the technological is a perfectly good theme, but it has the potential to become comical and unrealistic if taken too far. Wookiees instead of Ewoks could've achieved the thematic intention without getting into the realm of the ridiculous, as many believe the Ewok thing did.

 

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