Boba-Phat posted:jedimasterbac posted: That wasn't a warm laugh. That was ego-maniacal. I disagree. Palpatine had just spent a fair amount of time in the shuttle which also carried his strange-looking companions, who are said to be close to Palpatine. The comradery in the shuttle could have had a sooting effect on Palpatine. jedimasterbac posted:What joke was that? Not quite sure what you're referring to. "Soon I'll be dead, and you with me". After Luke says this, Palpatine laughs once again. Clearly he has a good sense of humor, a good trait manifesting itself. jedimasterbac posted: He was cracking up because the duel to the death, which was what Palpatine wanted, had finally started. At this point in the movie, Palpatine's good side has started to come through, such as in the scene I pointed out in which he says to Luke, "there is no escape, my young apprentice". He is happy because Vader prevented Luke from killing him and thus preventing his fall to the dark side. It is only after watching the intense fighting between Luke and Vader that his anger and hatred again begins to boil to the surface. So while Luke was able to save Vader, it was the intense duel he was a part of which ultimately sealed Palpatine's fate and prevented him from finally renouncing the dark side.
jedimasterbac posted: That wasn't a warm laugh. That was ego-maniacal.
jedimasterbac posted:What joke was that? Not quite sure what you're referring to.
jedimasterbac posted: He was cracking up because the duel to the death, which was what Palpatine wanted, had finally started.
Boba-Phat posted:In ROTJ, I sensed in emperor palps an internal conflict. I felt there was still good left in him and, with the help of maybe Luke, he could be turned from the dark side. Evidence: 1) he had a warm laugh - at the end of the scene showing the emperor's arrival, his laughter resonated in the hangar of the death star. Also, if memory serves me correct, I recall Luke telling a joke to Palpy about a rebel fleet, and he got a kick out of what his apprentice-to-be said. Palps also started cracking up when Luke tried to slice his face off with a lightsaber - but, as we know, Vader stopped his son from committing the crime. 2) I just remember the scene where Palps says to Luke, "there is no escape, my young apprentice"...the emperor had such a sad face, such a look of pity on him. His good side was coming through in that scene. Thoughts???
Shadowman82 posted:I actually think the Jedi are kind of daft about Palpatine . Sure he may be powerful enough to cloud their force vision but he does at least occasionally say some things that make it clear that he has at least some knowledge of the force , especially to Anakin and come on Anakin when he tells you the story of Darth Plageuis , but Anakin still couldn't figure him out until he actually revealed himself . As for Palpatine feeling that what he is doing is right and good ... perhaps but then so did Hitler and other high ranking Nazis .
Gary_Buchenara posted:There was so much going on to suggest that the re-emergence of the Sith was linked to the outbreak of the Clone Wars, and yet they still waded in to the thick of it, boots and all.
DuracellEnergizer posted:[quote=Boba-Phat]In ROTJ, I sensed in emperor palps an internal conflict. I felt there was still good left in him and, with the help of maybe Luke, he could be turned from the dark side. Evidence: 1) he had a warm laugh - at the end of the scene showing the emperor's arrival, his laughter resonated in the hangar of the death star. Also, if memory serves me correct, I recall Luke telling a joke to Palpy about a rebel fleet, and he got a kick out of what his apprentice-to-be said. Palps also started cracking up when Luke tried to slice his face off with a lightsaber - but, as we know, Vader stopped his son from committing the crime. 2) I just remember the scene where Palps says to Luke, "there is no escape, my young apprentice"...the emperor had such a sad face, such a look of pity on him. His good side was coming through in that scene. Thoughts???
Gary_Buchenara posted:But their duty should've been to the people of the Republic, rather than it's government necessarily and there was plenty to suggest that that government was not all that it seemed.
Shadowman82 posted:Yes and Dooku even warned them but because the Jedi have such a hate for anything and anyone associated with the darkside they figured Dooku was probably lieing.
Shadowman82 posted:As for Sidious pretending to study up on Sith history as a curiosity and Anakin not making a connection ... combine that with the fact that Dooku told Obi-Wan that the Senate was now being controlled by Darth Sidious ... come on .
darth-sinister posted:Gary_Buchenara posted:But their duty should've been to the people of the Republic, rather than it's government necessarily and there was plenty to suggest that that government was not all that it seemed. Ah, but they were doing their duty towards the Republic by defending them from the Separatists, who were planning to attack with their Droid Army. The Sith knew what they were doing when they planned the Clone Wars. Getting the Jedi to fight in a war that they wouldn't otherwise be involved in, by playing up the Jedi Code and their mandate to defend all those who are helpless. Shadowman82 posted:Yes and Dooku even warned them but because the Jedi have such a hate for anything and anyone associated with the darkside they figured Dooku was probably lieing. The Jedi do not hate. Dooku didn't warn them. He provoked them into acting. They believed that Dooku was lying based on their understanding of the Sith, from one thousand years ago. Darth Bane changed the rules by adapting and fighting a new war. The Jedi were fighting the old one. That's why they lost. Shadowman82 posted:As for Sidious pretending to study up on Sith history as a curiosity and Anakin not making a connection ... combine that with the fact that Dooku told Obi-Wan that the Senate was now being controlled by Darth Sidious ... come on . Anakin trusted Palpatine implicitly. He was the only one who told him the things that he wanted to hear. He stoked Anakin's ego along and he bought into it hook, line and sinker. He believed in the idea of dictatorship because democracy was proving to be a failure. Palpatine offered him hope where there was none for Padme. As to the Senate, the Jedi believed that if Sidious was controling the Senate, it was through a proxy and not the Chancellor himself. They don't start suspecting Palpatine until after the death of Dooku and after he is granted more control. Hence Mace's statement to Yoda, Ki-Adi and Aayla about the dark side surrounding Palpatine. He still didn't think he was a Sith, but they believed that if he wasn't being controlled, he was seeking his own agenda.
Shadowman82 posted:Yeah the Jedi were too caught up in their own dogma and BS to really grasp what was going on until very late .
Shadowman82 posted:But even more mind boggling is the fact that even when they know that Palpatine is the Sith Lord they have been looking for because Anakin told Mace they completely under estimate his powers hence the fact that all but Mace were dispatched so quickly . At least Yoda was smart enough not to underestimate Sidious in realizing that Obi-Wan was not powerful enough to stand a chance against Sidious .