Jedi Council Forums - Why was Vader so loyal???

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Author	Topic: Why was Vader so loyal???
JediMasterAni18 Registered: Apr '09	Date Posted: 6/16 7:24pm Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	Why was he so loyal to Palpatine/Emperor? Palpy didn't do much for Vader at all. He lied to him on numerous occasions and didn't treat him spectacularly at all. He wanted/needed an apprentice. Anakin was a great Jedi and very powerful. I just can't figure out why he was so loyal to Palpy.... -----signature----- Master Yoda: Twisted by the Dark Side, young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained... gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader.
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KennethMorgan Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 6/16 10:04pm Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	Looking at it from a Classic Trilogy point of view, it was a combination of two things. First, he wanted to stay close to Palpatine until he could overthrow him and take over. Second, he was afraid of his power and looked to him as his master, as in "obey or get hurt". The PT gives us the added dimension that, after ROTS, Vader really had nothing left but his apprenticeship. -----signature----- -30-
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DarthBoba Registered: Jun '00	Date Posted: 6/17 9:44am Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	Vader wasn't loyal beyond window dressing-see the end of TESB and the ROTJ novel. He was planning to kill & supplant Palpatine once Luke was ready. -----signature----- Only a Prime can defeat Vader and his Emperor.
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JEDIGUNSHIP Title: C&G Game Host BC Single Pick Winner Registered: May '08	Date Posted: 6/17 9:52am Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	It could be because Palpatine was really all he had left in his life, at least until Luke came along and changed his plans. -----signature----- Blue and yellow make a green lightsaber. How do you get red out of blue? Council Member in the New Jedi Trials/ Commander-in-Chief of the Rebel Alliance Addicted to Rock Band 2 and Proud of It! SWC Secret Rebel '09 Band Geek For Life!
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Dark_Lord_THX_1138 Registered: Jun '09	Date Posted: 6/17 12:34pm Subject: Why was Vader so loyal??? - Date Edited: 6/17 12:35pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Dark_Lord_THX_1138
	Until Vader uncovered the truth of Luke's existance, he was so loyal to the Emperor because he knew he had no chance of defeating and overthrowing him. After being put into the suit he lost a lot of his former power, and without another Sith Lord to fight with him any attack on his Master would be a useless gesture and he would be destroyed instantly. But of course once he discovered Luke's existance he knew, as the Emperor did, that if he could be turned to the Dark Side onto his fathers side their combined strength could defeat Sidious. I'm sure the Emperor knew what Vader was planning, by the time of TESB there was some serious distrust between the two of them.
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darth-sinister Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 6/17 1:11pm Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	All Sith Appentices are loyal until they are ready to betray and murder their Masters. Maul and Tyrannus would've done it when the time came. Sidious did it with Plagueis. Vader is loyal because he wants to know everything there is to know about the nature of the dark side. When Luke shows up, however, he wants to kill Sidious and have Luke become his Apprentice. Sidious, likewise wants Luke to kill Vader and be the ultimate Sith that he wanted in Vader. -----signature----- Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge." Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side. Something, something, something complete."
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Jedi_Apprentice Registered: May '01	Date Posted: 6/17 6:38pm Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	To be honest, before reading The Force Unleashed novelization of playing the game, I thought Vader was going to come away as a little more independent and conspiring than he seemed to be in the films. But after I got to the end of the book, well, it was obvious he was just as loyal as ever to Palps. -----signature----- http://www.fx-sabers.com/
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Arawn_Fenn Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 6/17 6:56pm Subject: Why was Vader so loyal??? - Date Edited: 6/17 6:56pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Arawn_Fenn
	JediMasterAni18 posted: He lied to him on numerous occasions No, he didn't. -----signature----- His legions, angel forms, who lay entranced. Thick as autumnal leaves that strow the brooks. <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> "Why don't you take your simplistic good/evil dualism and found Zoroastrianism?" - zweebex
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Gary_Buchenara Registered: Apr '09	Date Posted: 6/17 9:39pm Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	I think that until ROTJ Vader still believed that the dark side offered a release from the pain of existence and he still believed that the most likely source of the secret to that was Palpatine.
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Shadowman82 Registered: Jun '09	Date Posted: 6/17 10:08pm Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	Dark_Lord_THX_1138 posted: Until Vader uncovered the truth of Luke's existance, he was so loyal to the Emperor because he knew he had no chance of defeating and overthrowing him. After being put into the suit he lost a lot of his former power, and without another Sith Lord to fight with him any attack on his Master would be a useless gesture and he would be destroyed instantly. But of course once he discovered Luke's existance he knew, as the Emperor did, that if he could be turned to the Dark Side onto his fathers side their combined strength could defeat Sidious. I'm sure the Emperor knew what Vader was planning, by the time of TESB there was some serious distrust between the two of them. I think Dooku would have already like to overthrow Sidious in Attack of the Clones , that's probably why he told Obi-Wan about Sidious .
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rich-narco Registered: May '04	Date Posted: 6/18 5:04am Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	"i MUST obey my master"..... he had no choice - the dark side saw to that....
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Dark_Lord_THX_1138 Registered: Jun '09	Date Posted: 6/18 10:16am Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	Shadowman82 posted: Dark_Lord_THX_1138 posted: Until Vader uncovered the truth of Luke's existance, he was so loyal to the Emperor because he knew he had no chance of defeating and overthrowing him. After being put into the suit he lost a lot of his former power, and without another Sith Lord to fight with him any attack on his Master would be a useless gesture and he would be destroyed instantly. But of course once he discovered Luke's existance he knew, as the Emperor did, that if he could be turned to the Dark Side onto his fathers side their combined strength could defeat Sidious. I'm sure the Emperor knew what Vader was planning, by the time of TESB there was some serious distrust between the two of them. I think Dooku would have already like to overthrow Sidious in Attack of the Clones , that's probably why he told Obi-Wan about Sidious . Good point, and he may well have been planning to otherthrow Sidious.
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darth-sinister Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 6/18 2:28pm Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	OBI-WAN: "Do you believe what Count Dooku said about Sidious controlling the Senate? It doesn't feel right." YODA: "Joined the dark side, Dooku has. Lies, deceit, creating mistrust are his ways now." MACE WINDU: "Never the less, I feel we should keep a closer eye on the Senate." YODA: "I agree." MACE WINDU: "In the name of the Galactic Senate of the Republic, you are under arrest, Chancellor. PALPATINE: "Are you threatening me, Master Jedi?" MACE: "The Senate will decide your fate." PALPATINE: "I am the Senate!" MACE: "Not yet!" PALPATINE: "It's treason, then." PALPATINE: ". . . and the Jedi Rebellion has been foiled." That is why Dooku tells Obi-wan about Sidious controlling the Senate. The whole thing was planned from back then, to the moment in ROTS when it all goes to hell. Sidious wanted the Jedi to come after him, so he could be justified in terminating them. -----signature----- Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge." Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side. Something, something, something complete."
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Shadowman82 Registered: Jun '09	Date Posted: 6/18 11:29pm Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	I think Palpatine knew the Jedi would come after him when he wouldn't give up power after the war is over regardless of what Dooku told them . Remember unlike Sidious Dooku may be a darkside user but he still seems to have some respect for some members of the council like Mace Windu .
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TaradosGon Registered: Feb '03	Date Posted: 6/19 8:48am Subject: Why was Vader so loyal??? - Date Edited: 6/19 9:01am (2 edits total) Edited By: TaradosGon
	It's moments like when Dooku asked Obi-Wan to join him, what would happen if Obi-Wan reacted differently. Dooku: "Join me and we will destroy the Sith." Obi-Wan: "Sounds good, when do we start?" Vader: "I am stronger then the Chancellor, I can overthrow him..." Padme: "Could you do that? That would be wonderful." I mean. Vader makes an offer of power to Padme, which is openly threatening to Palpatine, she turns it down and he goes back to being loyal. Similarly, I think that if Obi-Wan allowed himself to be manipulated by Dooku and his talk about how Qui-Gon would have followed him, etc. I think Dooku would have used him to help kill Palpatine. But to turn down the offer served its purpose too. I don't think Vader was ever really loyal. He was plotting to recruit Luke and challenge Palpatine for the position of Sith Master, but when Luke turned it down he went back to being "loyal." He was "loyal" so long as Palpatine held greater power than he did. If Vader could recruit an apprentice and gather more power for himself, he would have challenged Palpatine. But so long as he held less power than Palpatine, he didn't really have a choice in the matter. Also, there is the insinuation by Palpatine in ROTS that the a Sith - either Plagueis or himself - was responsible for Anakin's inception; and it is my understanding that in earlier drafts Sidious explicitly claimed credit for creating Anakin. Perhaps Vader felt some form of familial relationship to Palpatine because of that. When he is watching Palpatine torturing Luke with force lightning, and is conflicted in what to do, it might have been like choosing between a father and a son, but then again that would imply loyalty. Lucas maintains that Vader wanted to replace Palpatine, and that held true in ESB, but in ROTJ all of his ambition seems to be dead.
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DarthIktomi Registered: May '09	Date Posted: 6/19 9:42am Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	Loyal? He kills the guy. He plans on using Luke to kill him. No, Vader isn't loyal. He's just looking for a chance to kill Sid.
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