Jedi Council Forums - Why was Vader so loyal???

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Author	Topic: Why was Vader so loyal???
EmeraldBlade Registered: Apr '08	Date Posted: 7/3 1:10am Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	1) He is not strong enough to beat Sidious. He knows he is as good as dead if he makes an attempt... which must mean that he does value his life, somewhat. Interesting. 2) He is not the most cunning. If you read the EU, he does not strike me at all as the type of manipulative, hardcore Sith. -----signature----- I am not Colour Blind, believe it or not. And I can spell, believe it or not.
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darth-sinister Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 7/3 1:32pm Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	DarthSubZero posted: I see a Galen/Vader/Luke debate. If one were to read the novelization, Galen really had no trouble with Vader. There was a reason Palpatine wanted him to strike Vader down, and take his place, because he WAS MUCH more powerful than Vader. So Vader was sort of dumb to let him slip away. Luke really only had an upper hand in his duel with Vader when he went psycho. In ROTJ, Luke wasn't fighting to win. He was defending himself so that he could get through to his father. That's what the part of the fight on the stairs was all about. Luke was not trying to fight his father, but to save him. Vader knows that Luke is much stronger than last year. DarthSubZero posted: I think Galen should have no problem with Luke, either. Only against the Luke Skywalker of ROTJ. The Luke Skywalker of FOTJ, that's a whole different story. -----signature----- Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge." Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side. Something, something, something complete."
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xx_Anakin_xx Registered: Jan '08	Date Posted: 7/3 8:09pm Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	I don't see the loyalty myself. I see a fight for supremacy all the way with Vader bidding his time until he can take over - that is the Sith way. And in the end, when Vader was chucking Sidious down the chute, well, I don't see much loyalty in that either. In the end, Anakin zapped Vader out of existence before showing loyalty to his son - which was the only true loyalty in the CT on that individual's part, imo. -----signature----- I say we put together a 'kill squad' and assassinate Darth Krayt. Who's with me?
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MasterLee Registered: Jul '09	Date Posted: 7/4 7:14am Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	darth-sinister posted: All Sith Appentices are loyal until they are ready to betray and murder their Masters. Maul and Tyrannus would've done it when the time came. Sidious did it with Plagueis. Vader is loyal because he wants to know everything there is to know about the nature of the dark side. When Luke shows up, however, he wants to kill Sidious and have Luke become his Apprentice. Sidious, likewise wants Luke to kill Vader and be the ultimate Sith that he wanted in Vader. I agree with this completely. But I'll also add that once Vader turned and killed the young ones, there was no turning back. He could never have lived with his guilt if he'd gone back to the good side of the force. -----signature----- “Aren’t you a little short for a stormtrooper?” http://www.absorbentprinting.com/
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owner276 Registered: Jul '09	Date Posted: 7/5 8:31pm Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	Have you ever heard of girlfriends and wives that keep coming back to their abusive boyfriend/husband no matter what they do to them? It's because the abusive person berates them and lowers their self esteem until they think that they are worthless without their spouse. This is what Palpatine did to Vader.
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Arawn_Fenn Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 7/6 7:28pm Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	owner276 posted: It's because the abusive person berates them and lowers their self esteem until they think that they are worthless without their spouse. Or because the abusive person pays for everything. -----signature----- "You're both from strange little backwater planets. You both have odd powers. You're male and she's female. What more do you need? Believe me, buddy, if I were you, I'd go right up there and ask her if she wants to ride on my rancor." - Han Solo
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Drac39 Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 7/6 7:31pm Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	I don't think Vader was loyal at all. There were all ways undertones that he resented Palpatine and wanted to take the reigns. He flat out tells Luke that if he joins him they can destroy the Emperor -----signature----- "That's all there is to life, just a little laugh... a little tear"- Lon Chaney
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EmeraldBlade Registered: Apr '08	Date Posted: 7/7 10:58am Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	DarthIktomi posted: Loyal? He kills the guy. He plans on using Luke to kill him. No, Vader isn't loyal. He's just looking for a chance to kill Sid. Given that it is in his job description to kill his Master, he is relatively loyal. Certainly when one considers the way he is humiliated by Sidious. -----signature----- I am not Colour Blind, believe it or not. And I can spell, believe it or not.
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darth-sinister Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 7/8 1:21pm Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	Darc39 posted: I don't think Vader was loyal at all. There were all ways undertones that he resented Palpatine and wanted to take the reigns. He flat out tells Luke that if he joins him they can destroy the Emperor Treachery is the way of the Sith. That's why neither one hid the fact that Luke would have to replace one of them as a Sith Lord, if he turned. Vader remembers Tyrnaus and Sidious knows full well that he can get a better deal out of Luke than he has had with Vader, all these years. Hence, Vader is loyal until he found the perfect Apprentice to help him overthrow his Master. -----signature----- Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge." Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side. Something, something, something complete."
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Serafine_Tinaste Registered: May '09	Date Posted: 7/8 4:32pm Subject: Why was Vader so loyal??? - Date Edited: 7/8 4:33pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Serafine_Tinaste
	It's hard to consider any Sith as 'loyal'. That's against their nature. -----signature----- Banana! Banana! Ooh! Ooh! Give it to Kiki?
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DRush76 Registered: Jan '08	Date Posted: 7/9 2:45pm Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	Maul and Tyrannus would've done it when the time came. I'm not so sure about Darth Maul. I read somewhere that Sidious harbored a low opinion of him, due to his unwillingness to pose as a threat to his power. Or that Maul was too loyal. Apparently, this trait was not highly valued in Sith Lords.
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jc1138 Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 7/30 9:12pm Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	I never have accepted the "Suited Vader=Weaker Vader" argument (I don't care if GL himself makes it) because there is simply no evidence of this from any of the films. As they stand, I think Darth Vader's line from ANH: "When last we met I was but the learner; now I am the master" is not posturing or bravado but fact. His knowledge of the force is much more sophisticated, but as Obi-Wan points out, that expertise is in the dark side. I recognize that mine is not the majority opinion. The suit enhances his already formidable fighting skills and strength but takes away his humanity. It fashions Anakin into a tool for Palpatine--which is, I believe, why Palpatine smiles when he sees Vader in his suit in RotS. Sidious harnesses the (undiminished) power that is Anakin. Because Anakin has nothing to fight for and has lost so much of what makes him human (it's not stated but I believe that he is also impotent as a result of injury) he can be molded by Sidious, who uses his loyalty against him. Vader is not loyal to Sidious because the later is more powerful. The line from RotS: "Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us" is true and finds fulfilment. Yoda's reply: "Faith in your new apprentice, misplaced may be" is, I believe, refering to Anakin's incomplete conversion to the dark side. I think Vader is devoted to making the galaxy into his own image, and Sidious plays a part in Vader's plan--hence the "loyalty." (Although, I think Vader resepects Sidious leadership and knowledge of the force). Vader wants to bring order. (The political banter with Padme in the meadow in AotC is very important, I believe). Sidious has created and consolidated an Empire but when Luke comes along Vader feels that the time is right to usurp him.
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Pocu Registered: Sep '09	Date Posted: 9/25 2:18pm Subject: Why was Vader so loyal??? - Date Edited: 9/25 2:21pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Pocu
	jc1138 posted: I never have accepted the "Suited Vader=Weaker Vader" argument (I don't care if GL himself makes it) because there is simply no evidence of this from any of the films. Why not? He has lost many of his midichlorians when he lost his limbs in ROTS. Furthermore, what new has he learned from Sidious? He could throw misc things all around (as he was a Jedi once), choking is not a big deal and duels with light-saber.. did he fight anyone all these years, after killing all the Jedi in the temple? All the episodes Vader fights as a Jedi, not as a Sith. He even couldn't produce any lightning, or at least a sparkle?! There was no real training of his skills for many years, just occasional. That is the weakness of the dark side. It is only a consumer of that was already created, not a real choice. It cannot survive without the light side. But the opposite is possible. Answering of the above question - loyalty is an integral part of his character. Loyal to his mother, to his wife, to his friend Obi-Wan until turned to the dark side. Neither Anakin couldn't leave his master faint on foreign ship, nor lost in space with buzz droids on his fighter. The mission was not so important as Obi-Wan / storm-trooper. Loyal to the Jedi who don't estimate his power and who don't trust him - he has betrayed Palpatine. And he is more loyal to the Republic than Padme who was talking as a separatist. (ROTS) Plus many years of going on the wrong way. He couldn't just rethink his life and say: "Oh, I was wrong all these years. I will become a good man as of tomorrow! Excuse me for the torture I had put you to." Uh.. The pain you cause to others does change you. Stop smoking is nothing compared to this endeavor. But it is hard, believe me. Actually he is the perfect friend and follower.
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CraigTNelson Registered: Jan '08	Date Posted: 9/25 9:49pm Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	Good god why are people bringing up the horrible video game character in a movies forum. Keep that garbage in videogames. The only reason "galen" is so powerful is because it made the videogame easier to make, much easier than having a weaker character use his powers subtly. Galen rips a mile long warship out of tyhe sky and crashes it into the planet. It was as if the Fonz himself was pulling that ship out of the sky, into a shark tank. -----signature----- hello
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jedimasterbac Title: CT and Fan Design Manager Registered: Jun '04	Date Posted: 9/25 9:54pm Subject: Why was Vader so loyal???
	CraigTNelson posted: Good god why are people bringing up the horrible video game character in a movies forum. Keep that garbage in videogames. The only reason "galen" is so powerful is because it made the videogame easier to make, much easier than having a weaker character use his powers subtly. Galen rips a mile long warship out of tyhe sky and crashes it into the planet. It was as if the Fonz himself was pulling that ship out of the sky, into a shark tank. All users need to accept the fact that people have different views on canon. If someone wants to bring Galen Marek into a discussion, they are perfectly entitled to do so. You are also entitled to disagree, but please don't do so by calling it "garbage" and saying it should be in another board. Thanks. -----signature----- Star Wars: Episode I - The Chosen One (my fan fic) http://boards.theforce.net/the_saga/b10476/30225011/p1/?3
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