Jedi Council Forums - More significant: Yoda's teachings or the Cave?

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Author	Topic: More significant: Yoda's teachings or the Cave?
VadersPappy Registered: Jul '09	Date Posted: 9/25 7:28am Subject: More significant: Yoda's teachings or the Cave?
	I know these two probably go hand in hand, but I wanted to find out which one people found more important in keeping Luke from falling to the Dark Side. Yoda's teachings: Yoda showed why he is the best Jedi instructor with his teachings to Luke. Yoda taught him to clear his mind and focus. How not to judge people. Using the Force for self-defense, not attack. Do or do not, there is no try. And of course, size matters not. The Cave: Luke learned that not all situations require a weapon. Also, Darth Vader was (or had been)human. Most importantly, he learned he could become the bad guy if he gives in to his anger. It was a re-inforcement of the potential of Luke to fall to the Dark Side. I have always thought Luke's actions in the cave was turning point of the OT. Even with Yoda's teachings, Luke could have ignored them and turned to the Dark Side, just like his father, who presumably received similar teachings. I think there is a good chance that Luke would have turned to the Dark Side on Bespin if he hadn't seen the possibility that he could turn into Vader. To become the person in Luke's mind that killed his father.
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Merlin_Ambrosius69 Registered: Aug '08	Date Posted: 9/25 9:57am Subject: More significant: Yoda's teachings or the Cave? - Date Edited: 9/25 9:58am (1 edits total) Edited By: Merlin_Ambrosius69
	Yoda's teachings: Using the Force for self-defense, not attack. The Cave: Luke learned that not all situations require a weapon. These are the same thing. The Cave reinforces what Yoda has already said. The Cave: Also, Darth Vader was (or had been)human. Most importantly, he learned he could become the bad guy if he gives in to his anger. It was a re-inforcement of the potential of Luke to fall to the Dark Side. Obi-Wan had already told Luke that Vader had once been human ("He's more machine now than man"; "a pupil of mine till he turned to evil"). So again the Cave is visually reinforcing information already covered. So we see that at "the turning point" of the Cave, Luke is being reminded of lessons he has already learned. -----signature----- "Chance makes playthings of us all." -- Seneca Shameless non-Manager Emeritus sock of Vortigern99. Fan of George RR Martin, JK Rowling and JRR Tolkien.
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jedimasterbac Title: CT and Fan Design Manager Registered: Jun '04	Date Posted: 9/25 9:44pm Subject: More significant: Yoda's teachings or the Cave?
	I think you more or less answered your own question, as they go hand in hand. As Merlin said, the cave was basically a reinforcement of what Yoda was saying. With some people, they can listen to someone say something over and over, but the words don't mean that much on their own. They need to see the lesson in action, which Luke did when he went into the cave with his weapons. -----signature----- Star Wars: Episode I - The Chosen One http://swfanon.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Episode_I_-_The_Chosen_One Production blog: http://alternativesaga.wordpress.com/
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VadersPappy Registered: Jul '09	Date Posted: 9/26 6:18am Subject: More significant: Yoda's teachings or the Cave?
	Merlin_Ambrosius69 posted: Yoda's teachings: Using the Force for self-defense, not attack. The Cave: Luke learned that not all situations require a weapon. These are the same thing. The Cave reinforces what Yoda has already said. Merlin, they are different concepts. When talking about self-defense, Yoda was talking about when it is appropriate to use the Force. For the cave, Yoda told Luke his weapons were not necessary, because if you go looking for a fight, you usually find one. I know it's a slight distinction, but it is a distinction. The Cave: Also, Darth Vader was (or had been)human. Most importantly, he learned he could become the bad guy if he gives in to his anger. It was a re-inforcement of the potential of Luke to fall to the Dark Side. Obi-Wan had already told Luke that Vader had once been human ("He's more machine now than man"; "a pupil of mine till he turned to evil"). So again the Cave is visually reinforcing information already covered. So we see that at "the turning point" of the Cave, Luke is being reminded of lessons he has already learned. Obi-Wan told Luke Vader was more machine than man in ROTJ, after Yoda died. And the pupil of mine reference doesn't automatically convey the message Vader was human. My point about Vader being human was that Luke discovered he could become like Vader. Vader had once been a man, until he was put into the suit. All of the Jedi received instructions similar to Luke. Two of them (on film) turned to the Dark Side. Luke didn't. I think the visions in the cave was the reason why. True, it reinforced what Yoda taught him, but I don't think Luke thought it was possible for him, a simple farm boy, to turn to the Dark Side. Until he saw visible evidence of the possibility.
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Sideshowbobz Registered: Sep '06	Date Posted: 9/27 6:36pm Subject: More significant: Yoda's teachings or the Cave?
	[quote]All of the Jedi received instructions similar to Luke. Two of them (on film) turned to the Dark Side. Luke didn't.[/quote] Yes, two Jedi....out of how many thousand? Over how many years? There's the lost twenty. Not only are we talking about an very tiny percentage, but both of the Jedi were turned by Palps under (presumably) dire circumstances. Problems have solutions, but dilemmas have horns. Perhaps if they had had the "cave" experience, it would have helped them to remember their training.....but I don't think the cave, itself, would have been enough. -----signature----- All these years Ben has been waiting for Luke to come of age so that he can become a Jedi and redeem his father. That's what Ben has been doing, but you don't get this in the first film. - George Lucas: Annotated Screenplays
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