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Topic:
Vader: Sith Lord or Dark Jedi
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JBFett
Registered:
Feb '02
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Date Posted:
6/10/02 12:39pm
Subject:
RE: Vader: Sith Lord or Dark Jedi
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Sith Lord.
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Genghis12
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '99
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Date Posted:
6/10/02 1:36pm
Subject:
RE: Vader: Sith Lord or Dark Jedi
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Crazy...
No. Nowhere has that been conveyed either in movie material, behind-the-scenes movie material, or EU material.
That idea only exists as a fan fabrication.
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Intelligently Fitting The newer EU into Established Star Wars Continuity (Or How About a No-Prize)
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Count_Drew-ku
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
6/10/02 3:24pm
Subject:
RE: Vader: Sith Lord or Dark Jedi
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Again, Dark Jedi is only an oxymoron if you want it to be.
Left the Jedi order, not a Jedi, using the dark side of the force, not necesarily a Sith, but certainly not a Jedi.
It's very, very simple, it's only complicated and not an oxymoron if you want it to be.
[rolleyes.gif]
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Koi-Langrisser
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
6/10/02 4:28pm
Subject:
RE: Vader: Sith Lord or Dark Jedi
- Date Edited:
6/10/02 4:30pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Koi-Langrisser
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Count Drew Ku has it pretty much correct. You can not be a "dark jedi," the term in itself is an oxymoron.
A Jedi is one who upholds the Jedi code (honor, etc.), being a Jedi is a priveledge people, not a right. You earn the title of Jedi. Once you do stuff that is outside of the Jedi code, the title of Jedi no longer pertains to you. Thus, "dark jedi" is an oxymoron.
Besides, using the force DOES NOT MEAN you are a Jedi/Sith. It is not a causal relationship, only correlational, yes if you are able to use the force, there's a good chance you will become a Jedi/Sith. Sticking any descriptor in front of Jedi will either be an oxymoron, or redundant.
If we're calling people that use the force for 'bad' purposes but aren't Sith "dark jedi" why don't we be consistant and call people who use the force for 'good' purposes but aren't Jedi "light sith." See how dumb that sounds? So if you're going to use the term "dark jedi" you are obligated to use the term "light sith" in regards to non-jedi force users who use the force for justice/honor/etc.
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SkottASkywalker
Registered:
Jan '02
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Date Posted:
6/10/02 5:43pm
Subject:
RE: Vader: Sith Lord or Dark Jedi
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Koi-Langrisser, "light sith". 
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Sturm Antilles
Title: Former Manager
Registered:
Jun '00
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Date Posted:
6/10/02 6:26pm
Subject:
RE: Vader: Sith Lord or Dark Jedi
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I don't care if "Dark Jedi" describes someone who fell into a vat of tar and was laced ith black feathers...Vader and Dooku are Dark Jedi. It's conveyed right in the movies and with Dooku, Lucasfilm has gone as far as listing him as one in certain products.
Tell me again...
At what point did the Jedi Council discover Dooku was a Sith?
Answer me that.
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Currently reading : About seven different novels at once.
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Count_Drew-ku
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
6/10/02 7:18pm
Subject:
RE: Vader: Sith Lord or Dark Jedi
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Dooku left the Jedi order, at what point was he referred to as a Jedi again? Light or dark?
Answer me that 
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Koi-Langrisser
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
6/10/02 7:43pm
Subject:
RE: Vader: Sith Lord or Dark Jedi
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The Jedi Council discovered Dooku was a Sith about the same time they described him as a Dark Jedi. Things can be implied all they want, fact of the matter is, regardless of what the Jedi Council knows, Dooku (in AotC) is a Sith. Being the apprentice of a Sith makes you basically the Sith equivalent of a Padawan.
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"I'd ask you to surrender, but I know you don't know the meaning of it"
"You think so highly of my battle spirit?"
"No, I think so poorly of your intelligence."
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Jedi Merkurian
Title: Games: RPG d20 GM
Registered:
May '00
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Date Posted:
6/10/02 7:57pm
Subject:
RE: Vader: Sith Lord or Dark Jedi
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I think I'll just keep re-posting this until people get it
To everyone who says that the term "Dark Jedi" is an oxymoron: which term flows more easily, "Dark Jedi" or "Used to Be a Jedi Before Turning to the Dark Side, But Not a Sith Lord?"
"Dark Jedi" may be an oxymoron, but "ain't" ain't proper English either.
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Genghis12
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '99
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Date Posted:
6/10/02 8:28pm
Subject:
RE: Vader: Sith Lord or Dark Jedi
- Date Edited:
6/10/02 8:58pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Genghis12
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Koi...
No offense, but that was about the funniest thing I've read in a long time. Your argument that is.
"You can not be a "dark jedi," the term in itself is an oxymoron."
The term itself is not an oxymoron. The term Dark Jedi is like the term Jedi - it is a specific term covering a specific item. The "Dark" in Dark Jedi is not a descriptor for Jedi. You would possibly be correct if the term were "dark Jedi," but it's not. It is "Dark Jedi." Dark Jedi being a person who is evil and has knowledge and practice of the ways of the Jedi, yet is not a member of the Sith order or believes that power ignored is power wasted.
"A Jedi is one who upholds the Jedi code (honor, etc.), being a Jedi is a priveledge people, not a right. You earn the title of Jedi. Once you do stuff that is outside of the Jedi code, the title of Jedi no longer pertains to you."
Exactly. We're not talking about a Jedi. We're talking about a completely different animal - Dark Jedi. A Dark Jedi is completely different from a Jedi. Thus, no oxymoron.
"Besides, using the force DOES NOT MEAN you are a Jedi/Sith."
Correct - Lightsiders have a bunch of sub-classes as do Darksiders. One such sub-class of Darksiders (those who use the Dark Side) would be Dark Jedi. You propose the idea of "Light Sith" ( ?:| ) - and such people would be a different class than Jedi if they existed.
However, Jedi/Sith DOES MEAN using the Force. There's only one case of a Jedi/Sith not being able to use the Force and still remaining a Jedi/Sith. And it's fromt he EU.  The only case of a being unable to use the Force yet is still a Jedi and/or Sith is Jedi Master Ulic Qel-Droma, a person who's link to the Force was severed. He existed some 4,000 years prior to ANH. Besides him, there are no cases of any person who is cannot use the Force who is a Jedi and/or Sith. And Ulic was able to use the Force, but was later altered. So, even he's a special case.
"If we're calling people that use the force for 'bad' purposes but aren't Sith "dark jedi" why don't we be consistant and call people who use the force for 'good' purposes but aren't Jedi 'light sith.'"
You now exhibit a fundamental lack of understanding regarding the whole issue. A Dark Jedi is not synonomous with a Darksider, as you assert. A Dark Jedi is a specific sub-class of Darksider, just as Jedi is a specific sub-class of Lightsider. People who use the force for 'good' purposes are Lightsiders or Light Side adepts. They will only be "Light Sith" if they are/were members of the Sith cult and have knowledge and reasonable level of competancy of the Sith arts. I'm not necessarily ruling out such a person, but show me proof of this "Light Sith." If Vader had lived beyond ROTJ, then he could've reasonably utilized the Sith arts he learned while evil for good.
Same thing with Dark Jedi. A Dark Jedi is not a generalized description for all Force-users who are evil. They are a specific term for a specific group of people who have knowledge and reasonable competency of the Jedi arts, yet are evil. Such people are Dark Jedi. If one is only interested in Darksiders, then they're lumped in together. However, their Jedi training certainly would set them apart from some self-taught evil Force-user who knows nothing of the Jedi ways.
"See how dumb that sounds?"
Yes, I laughed out loud the first time I read your post because of how it sounded.
"So if you're going to use the term "dark jedi" you are obligated to use the term "light sith" in regards to non-jedi force users who use the force for justice/honor/etc."
Nope, that just sounds dumb. One is not obligated to call non-Jedi Force users who have no knowledge of the Sith ways anything related to the Sith - Light or otherwise. Just like one is not obligated to call all Dark Side users, "Dark Jedi." You have a fundamental error in your reasoning.
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Intelligently Fitting The newer EU into Established Star Wars Continuity (Or How About a No-Prize)
http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=1111146
"Envy the nations that have heroes. Pity the ones that need them." -- Van Zan
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Koi-Langrisser
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
6/10/02 9:25pm
Subject:
RE: Vader: Sith Lord or Dark Jedi
- Date Edited:
6/10/02 9:29pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Koi-Langrisser
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None taken Genghis, if I can make people laugh, then at least I've done some good
Now onto more pressing matters...
In my eyes "Dark Jedi" is an oxymoron. This is because it implies that force-users fall into only two categories: Jedi or Sith (and the numerous subcategories therein, if they exist that is). It all goes back to having the title of "Jedi" bestowed upon you. A "Dark Jedi" is obviously no longer a Jedi or else we wouldn't have a completely separate way of identifying them correct? Well if they are no longer a Jedi, why are they still priveledged enough to retain the Jedi title?
The term "Dark Jedi" is WAY too misleading. There are certain ideals that the title Jedi illicits, and by calling someone a "Dark Jedi" you are directly contradicting those ideals by calling them "Dark" as well. Even if it is not explicitly a descriptor, it is implicitly. If you put "Dark" in front of any title (knight, lord, king, manager, student, etc.), it immediately implies that that person is the antithesis of what the original title is. But wait, we know that the Sith are the antithesis of the Jedi, so there's a blatant fallacy in "Dark Jedi" because one thing can't have two opposites.
And to Jedi Merkurian, what exactly does a term being an oxymoron have to do with how well it flows? Certainly "Dark Jedi" is much faster and simpler than "Used to Be a Jedi Before Turning to the Dark Side, But Not a Sith Lord." However, the latter is SO much more accurate than "Dark Jedi." If it were up to me, you are either a Jedi or a Sith and if you can use the force but are neither a Jedi or a Sith you are dubbed either a "Force user" or something to that effect.
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"I'd ask you to surrender, but I know you don't know the meaning of it"
"You think so highly of my battle spirit?"
"No, I think so poorly of your intelligence."
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Count_Drew-ku
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
6/10/02 9:37pm
Subject:
RE: Vader: Sith Lord or Dark Jedi
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I agree with Koi
And Merkurian , I'll just keep asking this until ppl "get it"
How many dark priests does the catholic church have in it?
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Sturm Antilles
Title: Former Manager
Registered:
Jun '00
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Date Posted:
6/10/02 11:18pm
Subject:
RE: Vader: Sith Lord or Dark Jedi
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About as many Dark Jedi against the number of Jedi Knights in the galaxy, during the time of the PT.
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Currently reading : About seven different novels at once.
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Count_Drew-ku
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
6/11/02 12:44am
Subject:
RE: Vader: Sith Lord or Dark Jedi
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MSOR
Make sense or retract
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Crazy_Vasey
Registered:
Dec '01
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Date Posted:
6/11/02 1:53am
Subject:
RE: Vader: Sith Lord or Dark Jedi
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I don't really care if the term fallen jedi isn't used anywhere I think it would sound better, that's all I was saying anyway even if it didn't come across that way.
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