Jedi Council Forums - From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Father

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Author	Topic: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Father
TOSCHISTATION Registered: Jan '03	Date Posted: 3/22/03 3:47pm Subject: RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
	Rodney-Wan, WAY TO GO!!! read my response to Vortigern99 on how and why the characters of DV and Luke's father were made one and the same. this makes sense, but more importantly your observation that THE PLOT POINT WORKED AND MADE THE WHOLE SAGA THAT MUCH MORE WORTHWHILE!
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The2ndQuest Title: Manager: -Literature -LACWAC -Games Registered: Jan '00	Date Posted: 3/22/03 4:14pm Subject: RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath - Date Edited: 3/22/03 4:16pm (1 edits total) Edited By: The2ndQuest
	Another evolutionary part of Anakin/Vader was his age- as of ROTJ, he was envisioned (and cast) as a man in his 60's- but when Lucas made the prequels, he shifted the timeline around a bit and made Anakin younger so that now he is in his 40's in ROTJ. Same thing happened to Kenobi- who went from his 70's to his 50's. Also, Vader's character was retroactively changed with the PT from being the most powerful of the numerous Sith serving under Palpatine in ROTJ to being the only Sith serving under Palpatine. Evidence of this isfound in the annotated screenplays under ROTJ. -----signature----- "When your future self tells you to do something, YOU DO IT." K'Kruhk, 140 ABY:"Why haven't I come forth earlier to share my Jedi knowledge with Skywalker? Well, it's kinda a long story, see, I had this freaking sweet hat..."
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bad radio Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 3/23/03 7:06am Subject: RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
	I realize I’m kind of late to the punch here, but everyone here is ignoring one very important fact. In the rough draft screenplay, dated May 1974, the hero of the story is Annikin Starkiller. Annikin is a Jedi Padawan who is being trained by his father, Kane Starkiller. Kane is an old Jedi warrior who has been in many battles, and as a result of those battles, much of Kane’s body has been replaced with mechanical parts. In this draft there is also an Imperial General named Darth Vader. Is it just a coincidence, then, that in ANH Darth Vader—the Imperial General—happens to be the one who is half-man and half-machine? Is it just a coincidence that Luke’s father’s lightsaber happens to look exactly like Darth Vader’s lightsaber? Considering these things, you would be deluding yourself if you continued to believe that Lucas did not envision Darth Vader as Luke’s father while he was filming ANH. -----signature----- My Halo 2 Stats: http://www.bungie.net/Stats/PlayerStats.aspx?player=bad%20radio - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I should have been a pair of ragged claws Scuttling across the floors of silent seas.
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The2ndQuest Title: Manager: -Literature -LACWAC -Games Registered: Jan '00	Date Posted: 3/23/03 8:43am Subject: RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
	Personally, I believe the possibility that Anakin was Vader had entered his mind, but it was just one of many possibilities, and he didn't decide upon it until ESB was filmed- especially considering Lucas didn't have any sequel/prequel plans to Star Wars beyond the SOTME novel. -----signature----- "When your future self tells you to do something, YOU DO IT." K'Kruhk, 140 ABY:"Why haven't I come forth earlier to share my Jedi knowledge with Skywalker? Well, it's kinda a long story, see, I had this freaking sweet hat..."
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Trojan_Sock Registered: Feb '03	Date Posted: 3/23/03 10:33am Subject: RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
	"...you would be deluding yourself..." Bad_Radio, you are capable of intelligent, well-reasoned posts, but I always roll my eyes when you post this same, moronic phrase over and over again. At the very least, try to be a little more creative, if not more compassionate. -----signature----- I want you to tear this restaurant apart until you find my soda...and bring me a Whopper. I want it with FRIES!
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SLR Registered: Oct '02	Date Posted: 3/23/03 11:15am Subject: RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
	I don't understand why this seems to be such a big deal amongst SW fans of whether Lucas had his ideas fleshed out from the very beginning or if the story evolved over time. I for one could care less. If he had all planned out from the beginning, great. If he didn't and just has been doing like all other writers and directors do and make things up as they go along, thats great too. I think your work is interesting Vortigern. I just think it is unfortunate that fans have to debate this issue. Is it really important when and how Lucas came up w/ the final product of his story? -----signature----- *"Sir Tampon" of the Knights of The 3SA Sarcasm Table* Philadelphia Phillies 2008 World Series Champions Come on Eagles, we want another parade down Broad Street Fight on USC!!!
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Trojan_Sock Registered: Feb '03	Date Posted: 3/23/03 11:24am Subject: RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
	It would appear that the biggest problem isn't the changes themselves, but Lucas' denial of the changes. This is understandable, but I find the research itself more interesting than the question it is trying to answer. -----signature----- I want you to tear this restaurant apart until you find my soda...and bring me a Whopper. I want it with FRIES!
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bad radio Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 3/23/03 4:30pm Subject: RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and L - Date Edited: 3/23/03 4:31pm (1 edits total) Edited By: bad radio
	>>>> Bad_Radio, you are capable of intelligent, well-reasoned posts, but I always roll my eyes when you post this same, moronic phrase over and over again. At the very least, try to be a little more creative, if not more compassionate. Oh gawd… Get over yourself. Are you still pissed that I once said that you were deluding yourself? Dude you need to grow thicker skin if you’re going to hang around here. And just to let you know, I’ve been here for a while and I have yet to call someone a moron or to say that something that someone wrote was “moronic” even though I’ve had the inclination a few times to say something worse than that. You’ve been here... What? Two months? Talk about compassion. No really. I’m sorry if you took offense. I just happen to be pretty involved in a couple of books right now about society’s self-delusion and hypocrisy. So I guess recently my posts have reflected some of the things that I have been reading. I’m sooooooo sorry if I seem to be repeating myself. (Most notably I’m reading Maxim Gorky’s autobiography and the man goes on and on about how people don’t like to acknowledge their own shortcomings, how they won’t admit when others are right and when they are wrong, and how they’ll even go as far to lie to their friends and themselves to keep their delusion alive.) -----signature----- My Halo 2 Stats: http://www.bungie.net/Stats/PlayerStats.aspx?player=bad%20radio - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I should have been a pair of ragged claws Scuttling across the floors of silent seas.
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Trojan_Sock Registered: Feb '03	Date Posted: 3/23/03 6:05pm Subject: RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
	"Are you still pissed that I once said that you were deluding yourself?" Hardly..I actually thought it was funny that after you called me delusional, I was able to further explain my point so well that you were unable to respond, unless you have a better explanation for your notable absence. Intelligent people can and do have differences of opinions, and it has nothing to do with their mental state. To continually accuse people of such is rather telling in its own way. As for the rest of your post, talk about thin-skinned. -----signature----- I want you to tear this restaurant apart until you find my soda...and bring me a Whopper. I want it with FRIES!
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bad radio Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 3/23/03 6:53pm Subject: RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
	>>>> Hardly..I actually thought it was funny that after you called me delusional […] Intelligent people can and do have differences of opinions, and it has nothing to do with their mental state. To continually accuse people of such is rather telling in its own way. First, I never said you were delusional… I said you were deluding yourself (i.e., fooling yourself). Big difference. There were no references to anybody’s mental state. Second, if you check the threads I have posted in, with the exception of this one, yours is the only other one in which I made reference to someone in this regard, and that someone just happened to be you. In other words, I don’t “continually accuse people” of being “delusional.” >>>>I was able to further explain my point so well that you were unable to respond, unless you have a better explanation for your notable absence. If you take a look at that thread—the Bashers’ Sanctuary—by the time I was able to post a reply, that thread was so way out of hand with all the talk of the other JC members… I wanted no part of all the mudslinging that was going there and that’s why I didn’t respond. Plus, the things you put forward were things I could have read in the databanks at starwars.com. So why should I feel obligated to post a reply especially when my interests lie in other threads. Trust me, if something sparks my interest, I will respond. -----signature----- My Halo 2 Stats: http://www.bungie.net/Stats/PlayerStats.aspx?player=bad%20radio - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I should have been a pair of ragged claws Scuttling across the floors of silent seas.
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Trojan_Sock Registered: Feb '03	Date Posted: 3/23/03 8:25pm Subject: RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
	"I never said you were delusional. I said you were deluding yourself (i.e., fooling yourself). Big difference." "to call someone a moron or to say that something that someone wrote was moronic" Well, since I called your post moronic, I guess your explanation applies to me as well. "yours is the only other one in which I made reference to someone in this regard, and that someone just happened to be you." "In other words, I don?t "continually accuse people" of being "delusional." Well, gee! I guess that makes it all better. I didn't realize I'd touched on such a sore spot. I guess I'm not the only one with "thin skin" "I wanted no part of all the mudslinging that was going there and that?s why I didn?t respond. Plus, the things you put forward were things I could have read in the databanks at starwars.com. So why should I feel obligated to post a reply especially when my interests lie in other threads. Trust me, if something sparks my interest, I will respond." Well, I guess I'll just have to accept that as an answer. I'm curious to know where the "mudslinging" in The Basher's Sanctuary was, especially you were the one that used the "delusional" statement, and that's the strongest wording I can see. Not many people were involved in that discussion, though I would agree that most of them did not accept your arguments as valid. I appreciate you stating that my arguments fall in line with the Star Wars website, because I do try to back up my reasoning. The fact that you saw this underscores the integrity of my argument. I can see now why you lost interest and decided to leave well enough alone. Now...as you say...on to other threads. -----signature----- I want you to tear this restaurant apart until you find my soda...and bring me a Whopper. I want it with FRIES!
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bad radio Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 3/24/03 5:49am Subject: RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
	>>>> I appreciate you stating that my arguments fall in line with the Star Wars website, because I do try to back up my reasoning. The fact that you saw this underscores the integrity of my argument. I can see now why you lost interest and decided to leave well enough alone. Human beings are unable to be honest with themselves about themselves. They cannot talk about themselves without embellishing. [Rashomon] portrays such human beings—the kind who cannot survive without lies to make them feel they are better people than they really are. It even shows this sinful need for flattering falsehood going beyond the grave—even the character who dies cannot give up his lies when he speaks to the living through a medium. Egoism is a sin the human being carries with him from birth; it is the most difficult to redeem. — Akira Kurosawa, Something Like an Autobiography -----signature----- My Halo 2 Stats: http://www.bungie.net/Stats/PlayerStats.aspx?player=bad%20radio - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I should have been a pair of ragged claws Scuttling across the floors of silent seas.
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Trojan_Sock Registered: Feb '03	Date Posted: 3/24/03 6:46am Subject: RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath - Date Edited: 3/24/03 7:14am (1 edits total) Edited By: Trojan_Sock
	Why am I reminded of the blonde guy in "Good Will Hunting", whose "meaningful" contributions to arguments are always someone else's words? (and verbatim, no less ) -----signature----- I want you to tear this restaurant apart until you find my soda...and bring me a Whopper. I want it with FRIES!
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bad radio Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 3/24/03 8:56am Subject: RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
	Apparently there exists a screenplay in which all the characters’ origins were out in the open: LUCAS: Originally, I wanted to do a Saturday morning serial space adventure, and I started working on a script and discovered when I finished it that it was 180 pages long, and it just couldn't be made It was way too long, too much. The next draft I took it and cut 2/3 of it off and just dealt with the first act. And I said, what I'll do is I'll break it into three movies and I'll put the other two movies on the shelf and just concentrate on the first act. And that screenplay turned into Star Wars. COPPOLA: You finished the script and you gave it to me and I thought it was terrific. And then you totally changed it. And I kept saying, why are you changing it? What was it? How did that script differ? I know you added the two robots at the beginning... LUCAS: Yeah. COPPOLA: But what was it, the script I read, how did that differ other than that opening? Was that the main difference? LUCAS: Well, there was a lot of character differences. There were other differences. I had Luke and Leia both in it. And um, there were a lot of ... Darth Vader was actually there, he was the father. COPPOLA: Really? He was - LUCAS: He was there. He was their father. And they were both there. And it was like ... you know, it just didn't seem to play out like I wanted it to play. So I did, I sat down and I did a whole new treatment, a whole new outline. COPPOLA: Yeah, you had the whole script and - LUCAS: Did it all over again. — From A Long Time Ago… The Story of Star Wars (Special thanks to Ozhaggis for the above excerpt.) -----signature----- My Halo 2 Stats: http://www.bungie.net/Stats/PlayerStats.aspx?player=bad%20radio - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I should have been a pair of ragged claws Scuttling across the floors of silent seas.
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Trojan_Sock Registered: Feb '03	Date Posted: 3/24/03 7:27pm Subject: RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
	Is there a date for this? -----signature----- I want you to tear this restaurant apart until you find my soda...and bring me a Whopper. I want it with FRIES!
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