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Author	Topic: I Think Star Wars is Losing It's Place In My Heart :-(
MikeyKnew Registered: Sep '02	Date Posted: 11/27/02 2:58am Subject: RE: I Think Star Wars is Losing It's Place In My Heart :-(
	I am SOOOOO happy that a couple other people posted!!! When Peter Jackson writes his OWN epic science fiction story that rivals the likes of GL's Star Wars or Tolkien's LOTR, then perhaps he will be worthy of all this admiration. But as of right now, he is just an over-rated smuck. It's like praising the latest director of a Shakespearean play. He only appears great because of the material he is using. I wasn't really arguing that Peter Jackson was a great writer persay, just a good director. In this sense, a director of a Shakespearean movie can be hailed as well. I think that Baz Luhrman did an amazing job on Romeo and Juliet. Both Shelley and MikeyKnew bring good points, however I'm going to have to agree with MikeyKnew here, simply because Shelley is coming off as very arrogant and seems to be giving the "Talk-to-the-hand" treatment to MikeyKnew while he is simply trying to have a friendly argument. In fact, I'm getting the impression that MikeyKnew really does genuinely respect both LOTR and Star Wars, while it SEEMS like Shelley is using Star Wars as a way to vent her dislike for Peter Jackson and LOTR while pretending to be defending it. I don't think she really likes Star Wars at all. I don't mean any disrespect, but that's just the way I'm seeing this very good argument. I love the LOTR universe and Star Wars universe quite equally, btw, so I am talking from a non-biased POV. Thanks for the support. Yes, my love for the debate often leads to emotionally charged arguments (unfortuantly, as I like to try to keep things rational). I think that Shelley really does love Star Wars, but the following problem arises when you love something too much: you are unwilling to rationally consider criticism about it. I am as guilty of this as any other who has argued for or against a movie, political standpoint, or philosophy. To keep things going, how about this: What is more important, the writing or the directing? Is the story good enough on it's own, or does it need a skilled director to convey it properly? Again, thanks for joining in! This will be even more fun with more participants. -----signature----- If I said "I have not seen Evil Dead 2, YET." What would that mean to you? I would say you're a cinematic moron! What are you eating under there? Under where?
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Kaui-Gone-Jim Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 11/27/02 3:33am Subject: RE: I Think Star Wars is Losing It's Place In My Heart :-(
	I can relate to what evryone has said here. For some time after the SE was in theaters, I was losing interest -- and it took multiple viewings of TPM to start appreciating its charms. But AOTC hit me like a sledgemammer, and I was wildly in love with SW all over again! I have also gone for months (possibly even over a year) without watching the OT. When I read of things to look for (like Han grabbibng Leia's breasts, or the stormtrooper hitting his head on that door) it was amazing to find these things happening in the OT that I somehow had missed on all these years! Also, I never was real big on collecting till recently, when my sister sent me some original Kenner SW figures and 1977 SW cards and stickers. I started going to collector shops and after a few months have a small but decent collection. So, it is OK to go away from something (or someone?) for a while, check out other stuff in this great big world, and come back to SW somewhere down the road of Life. -----signature----- "Anything that one man can imagine, other men can make real" -- Jules Verne (1828 - 1905)
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Shelley Registered: Sep '01	Date Posted: 11/27/02 9:49am Subject: RE: I Think Star Wars is Losing It's Place In My Heart :-(
	Both Shelley and MikeyKnew bring good points, however I'm going to have to agree with MikeyKnew here, simply because Shelley is coming off as very arrogant and seems to be giving the "Talk-to-the-hand" treatment to MikeyKnew while he is simply trying to have a friendly argument. I don't see it that way. I see MikeyKnew as being very arrogant and stating his opinion like fact, and talking down to me. In fact, I'm getting the impression that MikeyKnew really does genuinely respect both LOTR and Star Wars, while it SEEMS like Shelley is using Star Wars as a way to vent her dislike for Peter Jackson and LOTR while pretending to be defending it. Not true. I do not "dislike" either (cue heavenly choirs of angels) Peter Jackson or LOTR. I just find them both extremely overrated, and unlike a lot of LOTR fanboys on this site, who use LOTR as a bludgeon against SW, I am not using SW to vent my feelings about LOTR. I am just irritated at the specious comparisons MikeyKnew is making and using Peter Jackson to snipe at Lucas because Lucas, who is making an entirely different movie series and is an entirely different director, isn't doing what HE wants or what HE thinks he should do. He comes across as smirky and insincere when he compliments me. I don't think she really likes Star Wars at all. You're dead wrong. -----signature----- A bona fide conservative exposes Ann Coulter as the liar, bigot, extremist, and hatemonger that she is: http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001939.htm Protect America...impeach Bush.
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Shelley Registered: Sep '01	Date Posted: 11/27/02 10:16am Subject: RE: I Think Star Wars is Losing It's Place In My Heart :-( - Date Edited: 11/27/02 10:20am (2 edits total) Edited By: Shelley
	Secondly, there seems to be an overarching point to my posts that I have not made clear for you, and it is this: I do not want George Lucas to cater to me. I want him to listen to his fans, the ones that made him rich, the ones that are secure enough in their love of the films to offer some criticism, while still loving the story. And which fans are those? If he listened to the fans, he would never get anything done, because different fans want different things. OK, to continue: Once again, Lucas is doing what he wants. I am not saying that this is the wrong choice. You aren't? I just want to clarify that he can not do what he wants and what the fans want at the same time; not in this instance. The fans want DVDs! Probably. The fans of many movies want DVDs. That doesn't mean they are entitled to them or that Lucas should do shoddy work on one project to please them, because either way, he'll get slammed. While it is very tempting to use your kindergarden argumentative style on this one and say: "No I'm not," I won't. Instead, I'll try to explain that I represent fans of Star Wars, or the movie-going public, or every-man. Whatever you want to label it, I am not pompous enough to think that George Lucas should care what I (the individual, in a literal sense) want. Seems like you do. However, when I see that there are many others who wish for the same things that I do, I feel that I can absract my views, and use the word "I" to represent a portion of the public's feelings. See answer to next point. . . How is this not catering to the fans that will love him no matter what he does. In essence, as far as these fans are concerned, no catering is necessary. WHY are you twisting around my words to suit the conclusion you have already drawn? Like me? You mean, he's tuning out anyone who offers criticism that goes contrary to what he wants to do? No, I mean the ones who are dredging up Peter Jackson to throw in his face and whining, "Why can't you do things like him?" Like you. Sorry to let you go in circles like that . My point: couldn't Lucas have written the stories before he started production on the films, That isn't the way he does things. He writes the stories out as he goes along. Your patron saint, Jackson, had the story written out for him already. as he funded the movies himself, he wouldn't need to worry about the studio breathing down his neck, and Star Wars is an established hit, he wouldn't have a tough time finding additional money if need be. What does money have to do with it? Lucas has used many of the same sets. Also, LOTR is set on earth, yes. . .Middle Earth. This is a place as different from the Earth that you and I live in as Naboo, Tatooine, Coruscant, Endor, I could go on. . . Hardly. It is a place very similar to Earth. Another tidbit: Lucas doesn't scout his own locations, he hires people to do it, and he approves the choices. So? Did Lucas not have the choice to give himself that luxury, again: couldn't he have finished writing the movies before he began production? Also, wasn't it Lucas' choice to do the movies on his own dime? BECAUSE HE DOESN'T WRITE THE MOVIES BEFOREHAND. You thinking he "should," that he should cater to YOU, is just more evidence of your selfishness. I am not heroizing (is that even a word) Yes it is a word, and it looks to me like you are heroizing him. Peter Jackson, I am remarking on his talent. I am trying to show an example of a director who gets it, and is in touch with his audience. I am illustrating Jackson's ability to effectively convey a story. And I don't agree. He told a good story in a supremely mediocre fashion. I think he is a decent director and I don't care if he literally kissed fans' butts, it does not make LOTR any less boring, pretentious, overlong, or unremarkably directed/acted. Well, it's a good thing that Lucas is making these movies for you then. I don't know, you'd have to ask him. If you don't like them, why not move on to worshipping Saint Jackson on TheOneRing.net instead of sniping at Lucas here? And what rating would that be (that is just right)? What rating system are you speaking of? Slow motion is not a gimmick, but we've agreed to move past this point, right? No. You agreed. Jackson uses slow motion as a gimmick. What is a swoop shot, and how is it different than every shot that Lucas ever uses to introduce a new planet/setting? A swoop shot is starting out high above and swooping in low. Jackson used it about 300 times in LOTR. I've yet to see Lucas use it once. There are close ups in all of the SW films, please be more specific. In the end, technique is up to the director, none is better then the other, Didn't you just spend several posts extolling the virtues of Saint Jackson's directing vs. Lucas's? the final out come is what the audience brings away with them. It seems to me that I came away with more enjoyment from LOTR than the PT (so far). Fine. Then move on instead of whining about Lucas not imitating that boring, overrated pile of pretentions LOTR. This is insane! Who's being arrogant now? I'm insane because I don't worship Saint Jackson's mediocre directing like you? Because I prefer Lucas's? Lucas ruins good actors. Back to slamming Lucas. Natalie Portman was given such horrific dialogue in AOTC, Natalie Portman is not a good actor, at least not anymore. She used to be, as a child. But since she became an adult she has become supremely bland. that it would be impossible to pull off an effective performance. Hayden Christensen had worse dialogue in AOTC than Portman did and he gave a great performance. It was his movie debut, too, so it's even more impressive. Are you telling me that you think Jake Lloyd's performance was great? Back to putting words in my mouth. No, it was not great, but I thought it was good, better than critics said. I believed he was Anakin. I'm pretty sure that we are not going to agree on this point at all. The performances in the PT are aweful in my eyes. With the exception of Ewan McGregor, who is decent (and he's normally "knock-your-socks-off" amazing). The performances in LOTR are far better than any in the PT, name any two actors to compare and you will hopefully find that the performance in LOTR was far superior, I won't find any such thing. I though the acting in (cue heavenly choirs of angels) LOTR ranged from mediocre to downright awful, with only three notable exceptions (Ian McKellen, Liv Tyler, Viggo Mortenson). Cate Blanchett played Galadriel like she was on a heavy dosage of Thorazine. Elijah Wood changed his expression exactly once in the whole movie. Sean Astin, who I usually like, was wasted. The two indistinguishable tagalong Hobbits were just annoying and out of place. due in part to Jackson's direction, a better script with better dialogue, and just better casting. Christopher Lee is way better than himself!!! Saint Jackson's directing was mediocre, the script was a mess, and the dialogue, while technically better than SW, was due more to Tolkien than Saint Jackson. The Wizard Smackdown is pathetic and embarrassing; I felt sorry for both Lee and McKellen. There was much too much focus on the creation of the orc army. The battle scenes were numbing and jerkily directed. The only scenes that got any kind of emotional response out of me were Arwen and Aragorn's scenes together. The rest of the time I didn't care and longed for the movie to get a shot of adrenaline. If you watched the LOTR special edition DVD (in stores now for $24.99, a bargain!!!), you would know that Pete Jackson took loads of suggestions from his actors, Ian McKellan especially. So? The end product wasn't improved much. Lucas listens to his actors too. You still bash the end product. No, Watto is computer generated, that's not forced perspective, that's animation. Watto may have been animated, but Lucas still subtly emphasized Anakin's height. It doesn't make any difference that Watto was animated. I fail to see how "forced perspective" is better. The scenes with Padme are very basic forced perspective (see also: Christiansen stood on a box to appear taller). It would be like saying: "Turning off the stove makes me a firefighter." And? I still fail to see how Saint Jackson's "forced perspective" is better. In what way is slow-motion pretentious? The way Saint Jackson used it was pretentious -- trying to add an artificial seriousness to various scenes. I used them, because you introduced them. I was trying to debate on your level, with your terms. You shouldn't argue the use of them when you brought them to the table. I wasn't arguing the use of them. See my statement above regarding Lucas' luxury of writing. And see my answer that that isn't the way he does things. Not slam, critisize. I have made it clear that I love Star Wars. I am just hashing out some complaints, from a fan (myself) who likes the movies, faults-and-all. I guess that means that Lucas is catering to me right? I hope not. This is weak. No weaker than your arguments. I'm not sure that gloating is the right word. I feel that the media (and much of the public) was happy to see a new powerhouse movie franchise on the block. It makes for healthy competion, where there has been such a lack of it. No, there was gloating. Example: Entertainment Weekly sniping that if you had a dollar for every time "milady" is spoken in AOTC, it really would have beaten "Spiderman." -----signature----- A bona fide conservative exposes Ann Coulter as the liar, bigot, extremist, and hatemonger that she is: http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001939.htm Protect America...impeach Bush.
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MikeyKnew Registered: Sep '02	Date Posted: 11/27/02 1:35pm Subject: RE: I Think Star Wars is Losing It's Place In My Heart :-(
	I don't see it that way. I see MikeyKnew as being very arrogant and stating his opinion like fact, and talking down to me. I'm sorry that you see it that way. That has not been my intention at all. I have tried to brush off your hostility, but it's getting a little thick. I have not been talking down to you at all. If you have read my posts that way, I apologize. Not true. I do not "dislike" either (cue heavenly choirs of angels) Peter Jackson or LOTR. I just find them both extremely overrated, and unlike a lot of LOTR fanboys on this site, who use LOTR as a bludgeon against SW, I am not using SW to vent my feelings about LOTR. I am just irritated at the specious comparisons MikeyKnew is making and using Peter Jackson to snipe at Lucas because Lucas, who is making an entirely different movie series and is an entirely different director, isn't doing what HE wants or what HE thinks he should do. OK, I won't mention LOTR again. Maybe this will help your arguments, we'll see. . . He comes across as smirky and insincere when he compliments me. If that is how I come off, then again, I apologize. It has not been my intention at all to smirk, or show insincerity. I was simply complimenting you on the fact that you obviously spent some time, and thought on your posts. However, since you fel this way, I'll try to tone everything down for you now. I'd like to keep this at a purely intellectual level. And which fans are those? If he listened to the fans, he would never get anything done, because different fans want different things Alright, so since different fans want different things, he should just ignore all of them? sidenote When I ask a question like this, I am not putting words in your mouth, that's why there is a question mark at the end of the sentence. You aren't? Nope, I just want you to admit that he is doing what he wants, and not what any of the fans want. You have pretty much said this already in some of your posts, but you've also said that he listens to the fans that like him no matter what he does. I just want you to tell me how that is not the same thing as doing whatever he wants. Probably. The fans of many movies want DVDs. That doesn't mean they are entitled to them or that Lucas should do shoddy work on one project to please them, because either way, he'll get slammed. So, if he'll get slammed either way, why not at least put out some DVDs then and please at least some of the fans? Would it be horrible for him to release a "bare bones" OT DVD set, with a promise that evetnually (when he gets more time), he will return to the project and put out a special edition set, with loads of extras and new scenes (or whatever goodies he wants to throw in)? Seems like you do. I'm obviously not conveying what I think through the words that I write, so I'll drop this point. WHY are you twisting around my words to suit the conclusion you have already drawn? I am not twisting anything (unless you count making them italic), I am asking you if I have come to the correct conclusion from what you said. I am not assuming that I know what you mean, as we are on a message board where it is sometimes difficult to get the meaning of words that could mean many different things. We do not have the benefit of inflection here. No, I mean the ones who are dredging up Peter Jackson to throw in his face and whining, "Why can't you do things like him?" Like you. OK, I will not whine anymore. George Lucas is great. He wrote an amazing epic story and was able to produce some beautiful films from it. He is one of the greatest story writers in science fiction history and deserves accolades from anyone who meets him. That isn't the way he does things. He writes the stories out as he goes along. Your patron saint, Jackson, had the story written out for him already. I didn't ask whether this IS the way he does things. I asked whether he could have done it that way. Would doing it that way have made this trilogy (the marketing, release dates, production, DVD releases, everything) better? What does money have to do with it? Many people would say that producing three movies in sequence, before any of them hit the screens and you make good on your investment, is a huge risk monetarilly. Many would say that Lucas is not that rich and that this would not be feisable for him. Hardly. It is a place very similar to Earth. And how different are the planets that I mentioned from earth? Are these differences something that would making scouting in particular more difficult? So? So he didn't personally have that much work to do for scouting locations. BECAUSE HE DOESN'T WRITE THE MOVIES BEFOREHAND. You thinking he "should," that he should cater to YOU, is just more evidence of your selfishness. Wow, this point is obviously upsetting you, so I will drop it. Please don't see this as a cop-out though, because if you feel like you'd like to hear my response to this, just ask and I'll let you know. I wouldn't want to upset you though. Yes it is a word, and it looks to me like you are heroizing him. Not anymore, I won't mention him or his films again. And I don't agree. He told a good story in a supremely mediocre fashion. I think he is a decent director and I don't care if he literally kissed fans' butts, it does not make LOTR any less boring, pretentious, overlong, or unremarkably directed/acted. No comment. Would it be ok if I used another director and another movie to compare? Am I allowed to compare George Lucas to anyone at all, or would that be bludgeon against SW? I don't know, you'd have to ask him. If you don't like them, why not move on to worshipping Saint Jackson on TheOneRing.net instead of sniping at Lucas here? I will not try to prove my love of Star Wars anymore, because it is apparantly falling on deaf ears. I do post on [link=www.theonering.net]TheOneRing[/link], as I have said before. What rating system are you speaking of? You said that a certain (unmentionable) film is overrated about 15 times. Whatever rating system that you are citing when you say that is the one that I would like to know about. What is Star Wars' (just-right) rating in this rating system? No. You agreed. Jackson uses slow motion as a gimmick. OK, since I agreed not to agrue this point anymore, you can argue it with yourself. Have a good time. A swoop shot is starting out high above and swooping in low. Jackson used it about 300 times in LOTR. I've yet to see Lucas use it once. See: the introduction of Naboo in TPM and the introduction of Mos Eisley in ANHSE. I didn't check these, this is from memeory, so if I'm wrong let me know, and I'll find these shots in the films for you. Didn't you just spend several posts extolling the virtues of Saint Jackson's directing vs. Lucas's? You won't have to worry about that anymore. But, you shouldn't retort half way through a thought, I went on to say more on this point. Disecting thoughts into two incomplete halves is unfair. Fine. Then move on instead of whining about Lucas not imitating that boring, overrated pile of pretentions LOTR. I promise, no more whining. I will debate just as you have from now on. Who's being arrogant now? I'm insane because I don't worship Saint Jackson's mediocre directing like you? Because I prefer Lucas's? I shouldn't have said "this is insane." Sorry about that. My point was the fact that we are in no way going to find a happy medium on the issue of acting, so let's move on shall we? Back to slamming Lucas. Slamming is in the eye of the beholder. Have you been slamming other directors on this thread? Natalie Portman is not a good actor, at least not anymore. She used to be, as a child. But since she became an adult she has become supremely bland. What other movies are basing this off of. I, personally think she's amazing. Hayden Christensen had worse dialogue in AOTC than Portman did and he gave a great performance. It was his movie debut, too, so it's even more impressive. Not his debut. I saw his performance as less than great. His "Vaderisms" were over-the-top and I think this is probably due to Lucas' directing. And, I like Christensen normally too! Life As A House was an excellent movie (am I allowed to mention that film?). Back to putting words in my mouth. No, it was not great, but I thought it was good, better than critics said. I believed he was Anakin. OK, then once again it's a good thing that Lucas is making these movies for you and not the professional movie critics, or the majority of the movie-going public who thought Lloyd was not "good." I won't find any such thing. I though the acting in (cue heavenly choirs of angels) LOTR ranged from mediocre to downright awful, with only three notable exceptions (Ian McKellen, Liv Tyler, Viggo Mortenson). Cate Blanchett played Galadriel like she was on a heavy dosage of Thorazine. Elijah Wood changed his expression exactly once in the whole movie. Sean Astin, who I usually like, was wasted. The two indistinguishable tagalong Hobbits were just annoying and out of place. Well, I am not discussing this fim anymore, so I guess we will move on. . . Saint Jackson's directing was mediocre, the script was a mess, and the dialogue, while technically better than SW, was due more to Tolkien than Saint Jackson. The Wizard Smackdown is pathetic and embarrassing; I felt sorry for both Lee and McKellen. There was much too much focus on the creation of the orc army. The battle scenes were numbing and jerkily directed. The only scenes that got any kind of emotional response out of me were Arwen and Aragorn's scenes together. The rest of the time I didn't care and longed for the movie to get a shot of adrenaline. For someone who can't stand talking about this movie, you sure have a lot to say. . . So? The end product wasn't improved much. Lucas listens to his actors too. You still bash the end product. All of the alternate verbs that you use for criticize are interesting (see: bash, slam, condemn). Would Lucas' actors be bold enough to let him know that the dialogue is ridiculous? If not, it doesn't really matter if he listens to them. Watto may have been animated, but Lucas still subtly emphasized Anakin's height. It doesn't make any difference that Watto was animated. I fail to see how "forced perspective" is better. "Forced perspective" is an alternative to CGI. It's a way to use real actors, acting off of one another, as opposed to an actor and a drawing. I really don't want to go into all the details of forced perspective, so you win this point. The way Saint Jackson used it was pretentious -- trying to add an artificial seriousness to various scenes. Isn't CGI artificial? Blue screens? Light sabres? Scripts? Actors? I wasn't arguing the use of them. And I quote: "Condemn him? I'm criticizing the man. You're the one condemning Lucas for not doing what you want. And my evidence is no flimsier than yours." And see my answer that that isn't the way he does things. So, if Hitler does things that way, we're not allowed to think he could do things a better way? I hope not. And the selfishness abounds. I am a selfish fan for wanting certain things out of Star Wars films (good direction, acting, scripting, character development, stroy-telling), but you are the best kind of fan for spiting people like me, saying that what Lucas does is the best way to do it. We (fans like myself) don't deserve a thought. No weaker than your arguments. Good one (here you can read some of that sarcasm that you cited earlier). Instead of the rubber-glue argument, why not address the issue that "close enough for governement work" is not a valid statement in this arena. No, there was gloating. Example: Entertainment Weekly sniping that if you had a dollar for every time "milady" is spoken in AOTC, it really would have beaten "Spiderman." Are real Star Wars fans (such as yourself) so sensitive that they can't take a joke. Entertainment Weekly makes jokes like that about 80% of the movies that come out, calm down. There is no conspiracy here. There is no bias against Star Wars or George Lucas. OK, final thoughts: I do not want to continue this debate with you, because you are getting too emotional about it. I would love to read your answers to the questions I have posed here, but unless you feel like you can discuss this with me, without getting upset, I probably won't respond. Maybe I will, we'll see what happens. Also, I loved the posts from other users, PLEASE POST AGAIN I think that these discussions go much better when more people are involved. -----signature----- If I said "I have not seen Evil Dead 2, YET." What would that mean to you? I would say you're a cinematic moron! What are you eating under there? Under where?
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DeJade_Vu Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 11/27/02 3:54pm Subject: RE: I Think Star Wars is Losing It's Place In My Heart :-(
	Okay guys, quit arguing otherwise this thread will be locked. I saw it happen to a thread just last week for the same reason. Here are my thoughts. I understand what you mean, Jomero, when you say being a SW fan isn't what it used to be. Before TPM, Star Wars was a part of nostalgia. It was special, because it was unique, and was in the hallowed relm of the "classics". When you told people you were a SW fan, they thought not of a mediocre, hyped up movie but of a sophisticated and likable sci-fi/fantasy trilogy. Now when you tell people you are a SW fan, they immediately think of TPM, and AOTC, and Jar Jar and podraces and kiddie toys. They don't recognize you as being a lover of those original sophisticated movies. They think you mean the prequels. Now anyone who's seen TPM or AOTC can regard themselves as a fan. It's not special anymore. I know my obsession is more manageable now, since my heart doesn't start racing whenever I see the SW logo (yes, it DID used to do that!). But I'm still interested in that logo, and will go over to see what it's all about. You seem rather sad when you say your obsession seems to be dying. Well, happily enough, that proves that you still care! If you feel totally indifferent to SW, then that would definitely mean you are no longer a fan. But it's plain you still care, otherwise, why would you be depressed? So, take heart, you're still a SW lover! -----signature----- I'm a PBS mind in an MTV world. ~Eschew Obfuscation~ Pope Benedict XVI Owns You I want it--I want my phonecall. --the Joker Mara Jade Forever
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Viper442 Registered: Oct '02	Date Posted: 11/27/02 3:54pm Subject: RE: I Think Star Wars is Losing It's Place In My Heart :-(
	Well assuming this arguement actually lead to a prize or something you both seem to bring up good points, but shelley you just seem stubborn. You wont get struck by lightning if you bad mouth 1 aspect of star wars. You are a good sport mikey. Anyways continue the dorkfest! note: I in no way am saying im too good for this, im just as big of a dork as u are. I just think these arguements are funny.
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Star_Gazing_Girl Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 11/27/02 4:14pm Subject: RE: I Think Star Wars is Losing It's Place In My Heart :-(
	I wouldn't sweat it. I just had a Star Wars marathon and watched them all, from TPM to ROTJ, but that was only because I'm on vacation this week (I don't mean I sat down and watched them all in one sitting- I'm not a total freak). Usually, though, I rarely get a chance to watch one of them, let alone all of them. And, I'll admitt it, I have a short attention span and at times it was a little tedious. It doesn't mean I don't like them anymore. I'm a little self centered, in case you couldn't tell. What I'm trying to say is that you're not alone. I mean, YOU HAVE AN ACCOUNT ON THIS WEBSITE. If you didn't care at all, you probably would stop posting all together.
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JenX Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 11/28/02 6:16am Subject: RE: I Think Star Wars is Losing It's Place In My Heart :-(
	Somebody said: "What is a swoop shot, and how is it different than every shot that Lucas ever uses to introduce a new planet/setting?" To which Shelley replied: "A swoop shot is starting out high above and swooping in low. Jackson used it about 300 times in LOTR. I've yet to see Lucas use it once." Aren't there a number of "swoop shots" in the trench run sequence at the end of ANH? -----signature----- Anakin and Padme sitting in a tree, C-H-O-K-I-N-G "I am altering the OT, pray I do not alter it any further" My inner child thinks the prequels suck.
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MikeyKnew Registered: Sep '02	Date Posted: 11/28/02 9:21am Subject: RE: I Think Star Wars is Losing It's Place In My Heart :-(
	I beleive that you are correct. -----signature----- If I said "I have not seen Evil Dead 2, YET." What would that mean to you? I would say you're a cinematic moron! What are you eating under there? Under where?
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eclipseSD Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 11/28/02 9:25am Subject: RE: I Think Star Wars is Losing It's Place In My Heart :-(
	Shelley, could you please stop using "Saint Jackson" and "(cue heavenly choir of angels)". It makes it more difficult to listen to your viewpoints when you do stuff like that. -----signature----- Totus Tuus
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Shelley Registered: Sep '01	Date Posted: 11/28/02 9:44am Subject: RE: I Think Star Wars is Losing It's Place In My Heart :-(
	Shelley, could you please stop using "Saint Jackson" and "(cue heavenly choir of angels)". As soon as I see him stop being treated like a saint and as if heavenly choirs of angels should be cued every time his name is spoken. It makes it more difficult to listen to your viewpoints when you do stuff like that You've already dismissed my viewpoint anyway. What difference would it make? -----signature----- A bona fide conservative exposes Ann Coulter as the liar, bigot, extremist, and hatemonger that she is: http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001939.htm Protect America...impeach Bush.
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Shelley Registered: Sep '01	Date Posted: 11/28/02 10:08am Subject: RE: I Think Star Wars is Losing It's Place In My Heart :-(
	I'm sorry that you see it that way. That has not been my intention at all. I have tried to brush off your hostility, As I have tried to brush off your determination to present your opinion as absolute truth. but it's getting a little thick. I have not been talking down to you at all. If you have read my posts that way, I apologize. Apology accepted. OK, I won't mention LOTR again. Maybe this will help your arguments, we'll see. . . Good. I am sick of hearing about how great that mediocre movie was, and how great its mediocre director is. If that is how I come off, then again, I apologize. It has not been my intention at all to smirk, or show insincerity. I was simply complimenting you on the fact that you obviously spent some time, and thought on your posts. However, since you fel this way, I'll try to tone everything down for you now. I'd like to keep this at a purely intellectual level. Thank you for the compliments. I am used to being sneered at because I happen to (gasp!) like the prequels, and being told I "convinced" myself to like them. Alright, so since different fans want different things, he should just ignore all of them? Probably, considering how nasty so many of them are, and how they say they'll flee to some other series but never get past talking about it. Nope, I just want you to admit that he is doing what he wants, and not what any of the fans want. Not what any of his fans want? You're basing this generalization on what, exactly? I don't know if he's doing only what he wants. I can't read his mind. But if I were to guess, I'd say yes, he is. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. So, if he'll get slammed either way, why not at least put out some DVDs then and please at least some of the fans? And why should he do that? Would it be horrible for him to release a "bare bones" OT DVD set, with a promise that evetnually (when he gets more time), he will return to the project and put out a special edition set, with loads of extras and new scenes (or whatever goodies he wants to throw in)? No, it wouldn't. Why should he? I am not twisting anything (unless you count making them italic), I am asking you if I have come to the correct conclusion from what you said. I am not assuming that I know what you mean, as we are on a message board where it is sometimes difficult to get the meaning of words that could mean many different things. We do not have the benefit of inflection here. True. OK, I will not whine anymore. George Lucas is great. He wrote an amazing epic story and was able to produce some beautiful films from it. He is one of the greatest story writers in science fiction history and deserves accolades from anyone who meets him. Assuming you're not being sarcastic, I would agree on most of those points. I didn't ask whether this IS the way he does things. I asked whether he could have done it that way. Would doing it that way have made this trilogy (the marketing, release dates, production, DVD releases, everything) better? Maybe, maybe not. Many people would say that producing three movies in sequence, before any of them hit the screens and you make good on your investment, is a huge risk monetarilly. Many would say that Lucas is not that rich and that this would not be feisable for him. Actually, Lucas isn't that rich. He funnels almost all his profits back into his production company. And how different are the planets that I mentioned from earth? Are these differences something that would making scouting in particular more difficult? Point taken. So he didn't personally have that much work to do for scouting locations. Point taken. No comment. Would it be ok if I used another director and another movie to compare? I guess. You said that a certain (unmentionable) film is overrated about 15 times. Whatever rating system that you are citing when you say that is the one that I would like to know about. What is Star Wars' (just-right) rating in this rating system? I don't usually have a rating system in terms of, say, stars or a scale of numbers from one to ten. See: the introduction of Naboo in TPM and the introduction of Mos Eisley in ANHSE. I didn't check these, this is from memeory, so if I'm wrong let me know, and I'll find these shots in the films for you. OK, you're right. You won't have to worry about that anymore. But, you shouldn't retort half way through a thought, I went on to say more on this point. Disecting thoughts into two incomplete halves is unfair. OK, you're right. I shouldn't have said "this is insane." Sorry about that. My point was the fact that we are in no way going to find a happy medium on the issue of acting, so let's move on shall we? Fine with me. Slamming is in the eye of the beholder. Have you been slamming other directors on this thread? I've been criticizing one other director. What other movies are basing this off of. I, personally think she's amazing. I'm basing it on just about every movie she's done since TPM. Not his debut. Ah. You're right about that. I saw his performance as less than great. His "Vaderisms" were over-the-top and I think this is probably due to Lucas' directing. And, I like Christensen normally too! Life As A House was an excellent movie (am I allowed to mention that film?). I think LaaH was a lousy movie that Christensen shone in. And I think he was amazing as Anakin. OK, then once again it's a good thing that Lucas is making these movies for you and not the professional movie critics, or the majority of the movie-going public who thought Lloyd was not "good." I don't care how many "professional" frustrated would-be moviemakers dissed Lloyd, or if in fact the majority of the moviegoing public didn't like him. Am I supposed to change my opinion because of that? For someone who can't stand talking about this movie, you sure have a lot to say. . . Hey, you're the one talking about movies you don't like (the prequels). And you asked me for examples of why I think LOTR was mediocre. I provided them. All of the alternate verbs that you use for criticize are interesting (see: bash, slam, condemn). Would Lucas' actors be bold enough to let him know that the dialogue is ridiculous? Oh, so now your opinion is undeniable fact? Lucas admits that his dialogue isn't the best, and that the dialogue during the fireplace scene in AOTC is corny. But he consciously designed the dialogue in that scene to emulate words spoken by courtly lovers. "Forced perspective" is an alternative to CGI. It's a way to use real actors, acting off of one another, as opposed to an actor and a drawing. I really don't want to go into all the details of forced perspective, so you win this point. And I don't have a problem with CGI. Isn't CGI artificial? Blue screens? Light sabres? Scripts? Actors? Is it an attempt to add artificial seriousness like Saint Jackson does? So, if Hitler does things that way, we're not allowed to think he could do things a better way? Oh, so now Lucas is akin to Hitler? And the selfishness abounds. I am a selfish fan for wanting certain things out of Star Wars films (good direction, acting, scripting, character development, stroy-telling), but you are the best kind of fan for spiting people like me, saying that what Lucas does is the best way to do it. We (fans like myself) don't deserve a thought. Actually, in my opinion, whiny fans who hold up a mediocre director as superior and who whine that Lucas should be more like him don't deserve a thought. IMO, the prequels have all the things you mentioned. Good one (here you can read some of that sarcasm that you cited earlier). Instead of the rubber-glue argument, why not address the issue that "close enough for governement work" is not a valid statement in this arena. Uh...OK. Are real Star Wars fans (such as yourself) so sensitive that they can't take a joke. Entertainment Weekly makes jokes like that about 80% of the movies that come out, calm down. There is no conspiracy here. There is no bias against Star Wars or George Lucas. I didn't say there was a conspiracy. Bias and conspiracy aren't the same thing. And conveniently enough, EWeakly worships the mediocre movie you think is so superior to the prequels. It would never dare make a joke about that sacred object. -----signature----- A bona fide conservative exposes Ann Coulter as the liar, bigot, extremist, and hatemonger that she is: http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001939.htm Protect America...impeach Bush.
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Shannon Darklighter Registered: Jun '99	Date Posted: 11/28/02 2:27pm Subject: RE: I Think Star Wars is Losing It's Place In My Heart :-( - Date Edited: 11/29/02 4:43pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Darth Dark Helmet
	Say good bye for awhile. -----signature----- ++=Fly Casual=++
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-_-_-_-_-_- Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 11/28/02 2:59pm Subject: RE: I Think Star Wars is Losing It's Place In My Heart :-(
	I am sorry you feel that way Jomero. Though I am saddened at the fact that you decided to blame the PT. From what you described, it seems the media and today's mass marketing culture has ruined your sense of indentification with the saga, rather than the PT.
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