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Author Topic: Jedi-Loreen's EL Lightsaber Blade Tutorial
Wind 
Registered: May '05
Date Posted: 5/23/05 9:05pm Subject: RE: Jedi-Loreen's EL Lightsaber Blade Tutorial
Also posted this question in the Your Lightsaber thread, but, upon further review, I think it would be best fielded here instead.

I'm looking to make my first lightsaber, and I'd like to make an EL lightsaber. I've seen the designs from the Big Yellow Box, and I like Style V the most. Does anyone have any pointers or suggestions as to making that design into an EL lighsaber?

Thanks in advance.

 
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Darth_Roadkill  92 posts
Registered: May '05
7976_Lowbacca
Date Posted: 5/24/05 7:47am Subject: RE: Jedi-Loreen's EL Lightsaber Blade Tutorial
hphoenix or anyone else that might have tried this.

Instead of soldering the el wire myself, I decided for my second saber to get the pre-connected wire. To wire it to the mono-plug I was wondering if anyone knows, or if it matters, which wire is the positive wire? If it doesnt matter and it will light either way then no problem.

If noone has any clue, another question, If the polarity is reversed when I hook it up, will it damage the EL wire? or will it just not turn on? If it wont damage it then I will just test it, cause I will have a 50% change of getting it right on the first try right happy


DRK

 

-----signature-----
"Have at Thee!"
"But you have no arms"
"Tis but a scratch!"
"What are you going to do? Bleed on me?"
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imbuildingasaber 
Registered: May '05
Date Posted: 5/24/05 7:59am Subject: RE: Jedi-Loreen's EL Lightsaber Blade Tutorial
so this is all athe stuff needed to build a saber thats hard do u think i could get any items a home depot for saber? first i need to build a lightsaber and i need a good site that also tells u how to put the button for it to light up





HELP!

 
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hphoenix  61 posts
Registered: May '05
Date Posted: 5/24/05 8:10am Subject: RE: Jedi-Loreen's EL Lightsaber Blade Tutorial
Wind:

Just from observation, the BigYellowBox sabers were never designed with a blade in mind. Many of the styles there (particularly Styles I and V) would require a good bit of re-design to even accomodate an EL (or even just an acrylic) blade.

Several of the blades there (as described in their build processes) require wooden dowel filling the inside of the main tube, which leaves no room for wiring, batteries, or inverters. You need the tube HOLLOW to hold the parts, and at least 4" of the EL blade (I'll be using 6", and 42" total length blades) to support the blade when swinging it and duelling.

Now, with that said, if you can change the emitter section to accomodate a 4-6" length of 3/4" pipe sticking down through it and the socket for the EL power plug, and change the handle to have room for the batteries/inverter, and modify the way some of it is held together (since some of the parts are held together by woodscrews going through into the central dowel in the BYB sabers).....well, you see the issues.

In general, it is better to design a saber to support EL blades from the ground up, rather than adapting a non-EL blade saber design to use an EL blade.

If you've never built your own saber before, the BYB tutorials will get you thinking on what parts to use and how you can fit them together to get different effects....but read them for ideas, not as a blueprint for an EL blade saber.

Consider that about the minimum dimensions for an inverter+batteries is 3.5" long and 1.25" diameter (9v or specialty batteries + small inverter), and the blade needs to set into the saber hilt for a minimum of 4", on a 12" saber hilt that only leaves 4.5" of 'unfilled' space. Switch to AA batteries and you'll lose another 2" quick. Not a lot of interior space can be occupied if you are going to put EL supporting guts in the hilt.

Build a couple for practice, without too much detail. They won't cost much, and the experience will help you become aware of the details involved in designing/building one.

 
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hphoenix  61 posts
Registered: May '05
Date Posted: 5/24/05 8:29am Subject: RE: Jedi-Loreen's EL Lightsaber Blade Tutorial
Darth_Roadkill:

EL wire, since it is being powered by AC, is polarity-independant. Or, to put it in simple words: It doesn't matter which output wire from the inverter goes to which part of the EL wire. One goes to the small outside wire, one goes to the inner core wire(s).

The input wires for the inverter (since they are DC) do have a polarity, but you know that. Red is positive, black is negative.

Here's a quick lesson as to WHY.....

AC is an alternating current. It is often either a sine-wave or a sawtooth wave (sometimes it is a square wave but those can cause awkward characteristics). The "HOT" line carries this signal. It swings from +V to -V over the period of the wave frequency. So 60Hz AC (like comes out of US single-phase outlets, like in your home) swings from +V to -V 60 times per second.

But, this is all RELATIVE to our "NEUTRAL" wire. When the HOT wire is at +V, it is actuall at V volts ABOVE the voltage on the NEUTRAL wire. And when it is at -V, it is actually V volts below the NEUTRAL wire. NEUTRAL might be at GROUND, then again, it might not.

So what happens if you switch the wires? Well, now you are measuring NEUTRAL with respect to HOT. When HOT is V volts above NEUTRAL, NEUTRAL is V volts below HOT. When HOT is V volts below NEUTRAL, NEUTRAL is V volts above HOT.

All it does is put the AC out of phase by 180 degrees (or half-a-cycle.) No change in voltage or current, and if you aren't using phase relationships or external timing (and EL wire most certainly doesn't) it doesn't matter which wire is connected. This is why many old electrical plugs (and some modern) are non-polarized. They could be plugged in either way, since the inputs could be swapped with no effect. Now, switching power supplies often DO use phase relationships, and they have plugs that only go into the outlets one way.

Standard Electrical Code defines the "NEUTRAL" in a house's wiring to be tied to earth GROUND for safety and to prevent many 'floating neutral' situations, where NEUTRAL was actually at several hundred volts above earth ground, and when something tried to use NEUTRAL to GROUND (as many circuits do) it would short several hundred volts. Not good. So NEUTRAL is traditionally kept at earth ground (ie, what we call zero volts.)

Here ends the lesson.... wink

 
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Darth_Roadkill  92 posts
Registered: May '05
7976_Lowbacca
Date Posted: 5/24/05 9:26am Subject: RE: Jedi-Loreen's EL Lightsaber Blade Tutorial
Thankyou much, Master Hphoenix. I bow to your wisdom.

DRK

 

-----signature-----
"Have at Thee!"
"But you have no arms"
"Tis but a scratch!"
"What are you going to do? Bleed on me?"
"Right then, well call this a draw"
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DemonseedElite 
Registered: May '05
Date Posted: 5/24/05 10:53am Subject: RE: Jedi-Loreen's EL Lightsaber Blade Tutorial
So I've been lurking and studying lately, but I think I'm about to make the leap here soon.

First off I just wanted to say a HUGE thanks to all of you who have made this tutorial/thread so informative.

That said, I called CoolNeon just a little bit ago and found a couple of pieces of information though that I thought I might add on:

One, this is more for HPphoenix and any of you others who know more about electronics than I do: if you didn't already know this the wires act as linear capacitors.

This is relevant because of the next piece. According to the guy at CoolNeon if you wanted to mix colors (say give your Yellow saber a little bit of orange by adding red) you could just wire up the strands in parallel.

In other words, you have two 40" lengths of yellow and one 40" length of red, then you wire all three of them at the base (he said there's a "wide clip" or something to do this) in parallel to the driver.

Apparently the brightness is affected by frequency and amplitude (voltage) so by wiring in parallel you shouldn't see any marked decrease in the brightness of the wires.

This might also be useful because it can be used even on single color lightsabers and avoid bending the wire at the top (which seems like it can make it difficult to get into the diffuser).

The other thing is that the guy said that he just brought back a new driver (inverter) that drives up to 18' of wire using two AAs. He said that it's nice and small and "would be about the same" as the classic pipsqueak that it sounds like many people are using (the 9v inverter).

Anyways, just thought I would share the info. Has anyone tried either of these things?

Demonseed

 
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sporty  146 posts
Registered: May '05
6537_Green Lightsaber
Date Posted: 5/24/05 11:24am Subject: RE: Jedi-Loreen's EL Lightsaber Blade Tutorial
Some of the links I posted previously, yes, some were just hilts with out a blade, but there was some links for doing a lightsaber with blade.

One gave some really good details.

So I hope it helps out now and future visitors to this great sight.

I picked up from big lots the other day a forsight flashlight. polished aluminium, 3 cell d flaskhlight for $7.99. I think it is gonna work out well for making a light saber with blade.

sporty

 

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hphoenix  61 posts
Registered: May '05
Date Posted: 5/24/05 11:59am Subject: RE: Jedi-Loreen's EL Lightsaber Blade Tutorial - Date Edited: 5/24/05 12:08pm (3 edits total) Edited By: hphoenix
DemonseedElite:

Yep. The EL wire (and the flat type as well) is basically a capacitor. It uses the thin outer wires as one 'plate', the inner wire as the other 'plate' and the phosphor coating on the inner wire is the dielectric. And it is the AC passing through that dielectric (AC sees pure capacitors as nearly zero resistance) that energizes the phosphors and causes the glow. The higher the frequency of the AC, the closer to zero resistance the wire gets, and the more current it draws...and the brighter it glows. This is why a 2kHz inverter is preferable to a 800Hz inverter is preferable to a 400Hz inverter......

And yes, you can wire up as many pieces of EL wire in parallel as you want......

BUT

(don't you hate that?)

.....Remember that the total feet of wire is still drawing current (EL wire draws current based on type and how many feet are being driven) so while you can wire in parallel it only helps you by saving you from bending the wire at the ends of the blade. You could just run three 3' sections of wire in parallel instead of one 9' section with two bends.

You can also wire one end of a piece of EL wire to another piece of EL wire (of a different color or thickness) and treat it as a single piece of wire.

The advantages to doing this are:
- No bends at the ends. (ie, less stress on the wire)
- Multiple colors. (you can mix for unique shades)
Disadvantages: More soldering (if doing it yourself)

The big problem with mixing colors is having it tightly mixed enough to keep the blade from having 'patchy' color. By twisting the strands together up through the diffuser, you can do this, but you may need to use one less strand than normal and make the strands longer.

The real advantage to this is the ability (even if it is impractical to an extent) to light sections SEQUENTIALLY. Yes, that means you could get a passable power-up effect. However, to do it, you have to tightly coil the EL wire inside the diffuser, in sections, and run the output of the inverter through a set of analog switches controlled by a counter circuit. Although the theory/design for doing this is sound, I'm going to get a few standard blades under my belt before I start experimenting that way.

(note: I haven't built a single blade yet......I'm waiting on my next paycheck to buy parts. Darn contract pays monthly(!) so I'm pretty much broke until the 1st.....)

 
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0-SithLord-0 
Registered: May '05
24210_Darth Sidious
Date Posted: 5/24/05 12:08pm Subject: RE: Jedi-Loreen's EL Lightsaber Blade Tutorial
How do i attach the blade to the hilt?

 
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Darth_Roadkill  92 posts
Registered: May '05
7976_Lowbacca
Date Posted: 5/24/05 12:59pm Subject: RE: Jedi-Loreen's EL Lightsaber Blade Tutorial - Date Edited: 5/24/05 1:03pm (5 edits total) Edited By: Darth_Roadkill
The normal wiring of the "reciever" in the hilt is pretty straight forward. I have included a wiring diagram that should work well. Actually placing the mono reciever in the hilt is up to you, I use pvc and silicone to put mine in, you could also put a screw in to the PVC to make it sturdier, it should be about 4" into the hilt and then you should have 1 to 3 thumb screws near the top of the hilt at the "emitter" to hold the blade in place.

Diagram




Until I figure it out, here is the link http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y273/usnlynn1/25dfc178.gif

DRK

 

-----signature-----
"Have at Thee!"
"But you have no arms"
"Tis but a scratch!"
"What are you going to do? Bleed on me?"
"Right then, well call this a draw"
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tormentedjedi 
Registered: May '05
Date Posted: 5/24/05 1:48pm Subject: RE: Jedi-Loreen's EL Lightsaber Blade Tutorial
Jed-Loreen, sorry to sound like a pest, but I'm still kinda wondering how to put the blade power parts mentioned in your tutorial into my hilt.

 
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Jedi-Loreen  2749 posts
Title: OCSWS Secretary
& Master of the Blades
 Registered: Dec '02
43743_Mara Jade
Date Posted: 5/24/05 2:00pm Subject: RE: Jedi-Loreen's EL Lightsaber Blade Tutorial - Date Edited: 5/24/05 2:11pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Jedi-Loreen
If you could look at another EL saber, it would give you an idea of how to do that.

Generally, you need some sort of tube to hold the blade that you can also attach the female connector from the inverter output to, at the bottom.

Most sabers will have a screw, like a thumb screw that tightens and presses against the blade so that is stays in your hilt. The female connector will not hold it in by itself and you don't want to rely on tape or something for a friction fit if you will be swinging it around.

That's usually the hardest part to figure out in a hardware EL saber. What to use for a blade holder and how to mount it to your hilt. There is no one way to do it. It depends on your hilt design.

With my first one, I used a piece of 3/4" PVC, though it's a little of a sloppy fit for the blade. I built up 3 spots on the outer part of the pipe with cut pieces of PVC so it would take up more space inside the hilt. Then I used sheet metal screws to hold the bottom of the blade holder. These were attached from the outside and have screw covers over them so they look like black buttons. The female connector is glued into the bottom of the PVC tube with epoxy.

I used a switch from Lightech that has a 90° angle in the housing, so I was able to cut a small window in the side of the PVC blad holder to mount the swith up fairly high on the hilt. Assembly was tricky, though.

Below the PVC tube sits the inverter, I stuffed some pipe insulation around it to hold it and dampen the high-pitched whine that some inverters have. Then goes the battery.

hphoenix made a good basic wiring diagram to explain what goes inside an EL saber and where everything needs to be located.

That was my first attempt at making a hardware EL saber 2 1/2 years ago. I don't know if I'd do it that way again, but it worked. The only problem is that I can never take this saber apart if I need to fix it, because a lot of it is epoxied together.

At the top, I used Allen headed cap screws with finish washers. I cut the screws so that they press against the PVC blade holder tube to hold it stable. The screws have spring washers that hold them from the inside. That ended up being a decorative element for it.

Here's the first pic of my Hardware EL saber out of six, click Next above the pic to see the rest.

Hardware EL Saber

When I get home from work I'll try to take some pics looking down inside both my hardware and my Parks Fusion saber.

 

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In order to see the Light, you must sometimes risk the Darkness.
"The Force is my Ally"
Builder of EL Sabre Blades
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hphoenix  61 posts
Registered: May '05
Date Posted: 5/24/05 4:15pm Subject: RE: Jedi-Loreen's EL Lightsaber Blade Tutorial
A lot of questions have been posted concerning HOW to mount the EL blade inside the hilt. I've been wrestling with that in my mind as well, and I've done a little online searching for the parts that might be helpful....

And I've found lots of useful items and ideas. But their practicality and economy are still under consideration.

In a few weeks, I'll have built a few, so the practicality and durability of them will be better established. Then I'll post my results here.

One of my neat ideas involves 3/4"ID copper pipe and 1.5"OD 13/16"ID stainless washers, some soldering/brazing, and a few thumbscrews. I'll have to see how it goes when I can buy the parts.....

3/4" couplers for conduit, 3/4" bore bushings with set-screws, 3/4" drill chucks....these all offer possibilities I'm looking into.

The 3/4" ID 1.25" OD Shaft Collars at SPD-SI (go to collars, and then Shaft collars). Two of these mounted inside a 1.25" or 1.5" sink pipe could hold the blade easily. They run $8.42 each, in stainless. Getting just the right fit could be tricky, though. The Fairlight shaft collars would be nice, but they're about $38 each!

mcmaster.com also has shaft collars (they have a nice aluminum one, part #9946K19, 3/4"ID 1.25"OD) and other couplers as well. There is a lot of potential in these....


 
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Wind 
Registered: May '05
Date Posted: 5/24/05 4:32pm Subject: RE: Jedi-Loreen's EL Lightsaber Blade Tutorial
hphoenix:

Thanks for the pointers, this'll help me a lot. Do you know of a website where I could get some pre-made designs for an EL saber to toy with. Having something to aim towards is always helpful.

Thanks.

 
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