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Topic:
People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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iamobiwan1970
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
2/5 1:15pm
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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I keep wondering what the point was of Zekk's darkside use in Fury.
1. Maybe it was to show that even the strongest can fall. So what does that prove?
2. To show that Zekk will do anything for Jaina? That makes more sense to me and makes me wonder what he will do to help her in the last two books of the series.
3. To show that desparate times call for desparate measures? Well, times are desparate. Does that mean we will see more DS from either Luke, Ben, or Jaina? 
Honestly, I really can't figure it out. But Zekk handled himself pretty well. He knew immediately that his dark thoughts were wrong and he fought to shut them out. He certainly didn't enjoy revisiting the darkside so I really can't see him hangin' with Caedus.
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Neo-Paladin
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
2/5 4:42pm
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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My biased take:
I didn't read Fury, but the current popular interpretation that the dark side is stronger than the light probably played into it. This is anathema to everything I think is good about Star Wars, but this illustrates why I can't summon any enthusiasm for reading SW fiction these days.
The three reasons you posit all have their merits, and I'm not a fan of any of them. 
Showing a hero fail can be great in a story, if for no other reason than to illustrate it can happen. How the hero recovers from failure is a great literary arc. Now, if Zekk just got up and went back to what he was doing before while mopeing then this is obviously not what the author had in mind.
It would require, you know, nuance.
Having good guys using the dark side out of desperation muddies the lines between good and bad, which is also anathema to Star Wars. If you don't have iconic characters, you don't have Star Wars So, I desperately hope that isn't what the authors were trying to do.
Having Zekk 'doing anything for Jaina' is somewhat tragic, but more pathetic, and damages the character in my eyes. It would also seriously conflict with how most people read Zekk in Dark Journey. So it's probably this one.
Of course the 4th option is they just wanted to give Zekk something to angst about, while illustrating how super cool the Dark Side is.
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iamobiwan1970
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
2/5 5:36pm
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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Of course the 4th option is they just wanted to give Zekk something to angst about, while illustrating how super cool the Dark Side is.
Likely it's this reason!
That was sort of my point....that "what was the point?" of Zekk's actions? How do they serve the plot of one book let alone the entire series? And since two different authors will be completeing the series there will likely be little closure to this episode.
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chaotic-force
Registered:
Feb '06
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Date Posted:
2/5 10:49pm
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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I just want to make it clear that I don't beleive that Zekk should become a Sith, I only meant to say that it looked like it could be a possibility.
I have always supported Zekk staying on the Light side of the force, and I agree with Neo Paladin that the darkside is used too often and should not be applied to Zekk.
I am getting sick of how stagnent Zekk has become in canon. I missed out on almost all of the NJO, but from what i've read Zekk did not acomplish much, and DN did not do much to expand his character. LoTF has the faintest hind of expanding his character and I will take any growth that I can get.
Zekk by the end of Fury is facing a critical moment in his life. He has faced the fact that he can never ged rid of the taint of the darkside. That somewhere inside of himself there is a part that actually wants the power. He can now choose to accept that part and become stronger, or he will wallow and potentially stumble back into dark.
I also just want to put this out there. Zekk has an inherrent affinity for the darkside. His entire young life was rulled by fear desperation for his own survival, and a mild resentment for his low station in life. These feelings provide a very strong source of darkside power.
It is the fact that he has overcome his station and trauma that makes him great, but no one in canon acknoledges this achievement. He is taken for granted, and if he eventually is unable to take Jaina's abues then he might unleash all those years of pain and anger, and the Jedi would have to blame themselves.
Sorry for ranting, I just wanted to explain my frustration with Zekk's treatment in the books right now.
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jedi_of_ennth
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
2/6 6:17am
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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My two cents, for what it’s worth:
I love the direction Zekk’s character took in Fury. As chaotic-force said, Zekk had become a stagnant character, too often reduced to a one-dimensional zealous stalker-type. The fact that he did cave in and use the dark side is, I think, very realistic, and proves that not for nothing is he paranoid about the dark side—he really does have a reason to be extremely cautious, as it would be easy for him to fall.
If heroes are never in danger of touching the darkness, how can we say they’ve risen above it to become stronger or braver or more pure? If Luke or Zekk or any other Jedi was guaranteed never to fall, why should they guard against their darker tendencies? There’s no redemption without a fall; there’s no poignancy in warnings against the dark side if, well, the dark side is a pitfall for bad guys that good guys never, ever fall into.
Zekk is flawed. Zekk does everything he can to stay away from the darkness, to suppress his insecurities and his anger before they can destroy him. He knows what he could become; he knows how close he came to the point of no return when he was with the Shadow Academy. He is dedicated and he is vigilant, and, like any realistic, complex character, he makes mistakes. And he falls. And he picks himself right back up and vows to keep trying to fight the good fight as best he can.
Neo-Paladin, the LotF books are not, in any way, shape, or form, glorifying the dark side. They are not painting World Domination as an attractive, glamorous career; they aren’t suggesting that all Jedi sell out to the Sith in order to obtain sleek leather armor and a “Darth” moniker.
Neo-Paladin posted:
Having Zekk 'doing anything for Jaina' is somewhat tragic, but more pathetic, and damages the character in my eyes. It would also seriously conflict with how most people read Zekk in Dark Journey. So it's probably this one.
IMO, it deepens his portrayal in DJ. Now we know that his reasons for leaving her were valid; I’ve always believed he left because he knew he was in grave danger of falling again if he followed her down that path. After Fury, we know how easily he would give in for Jaina, and this lends more credibility to his actions in DJ.
Neo-Paladin posted:
Now, if Zekk just got up and went back to what he was doing before while mopeing then this is obviously not what the author had in mind.
Except—he didn’t. He was so broken over what he had done that the idea of his own survival didn’t occur to him; he was basically content to die on the asteroid, and he only made an attempt to get out because Jaina asked him to. The few scenes he has after his dark side jaunt are chilling—he’s numb and unthinking, destroyed by his weakness, struggling to overcome the realization that he’s had a relapse. I recommend finding a copy of Fury and at least reading the scene.
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"I'm your friend. I love you."
-- Zekk to Jaina, LotF: Fury
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Darth_Sabith
Registered:
Oct '06
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Date Posted:
2/6 6:49am
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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Any one think Zekk would make a great leader for the Jensaari? Or maybe he creates a new order that seeks to destroy the darkside. Although I personnally would love to see Zekk turn dark to get the respect he deserves. Honestly Jaina, Jacen, Luke and the rest have no true understanding how powerfull he is and how much he is holding back out of fear of falling once more.
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Neo-Paladin
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
2/6 3:37pm
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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See, the problem I have is, he left Jaina to her fate in DJ, very possibly to die, because he couldn't save her and he wouldn't fall, even for her. He did the best thing he could. He was willing to accept what he couldn't change. Yoda would have been proud. We're on the same tact here.
But then in Fury he risks falling for her (quasi-falls for her? If simply using a technique constitutes using the Dark Side, I guess so. Kind of arbitrary, but whatever). Why is giving in now really different from giving in then? And by the end of Furry, after some emo, he's flying again. Eh.
I have to admit I'm still not crazy about this.
As far as why Zekk had to touch the darkside, it seemed a bit contrived honestly. Further, if there is something that only the Dark Side can do, then the Dark Side is more powerful.
But maybe I'll take your advice and read a passage or two at somepoint anyway 
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Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.
Edward R. Murrow
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jedi_of_ennth
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
2/6 3:41pm
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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Neo-Paladin posted:
As far as why Zekk had to touch the darkside, it seemed a bit contrived honestly. Further, if there is something that only the Dark Side can do, then the Dark Side is more powerful.
The dark side isn't more powerful; Zekk just wasn't powerful enough to effect a light side solution to the problem. The weakness doesn't lie in the Force, but in the Jedi. I believe Luke would have been able to neutralize the Sith ship without calling on the darkness. Zekk, however, isn't on Luke's level.
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"I'm your friend. I love you."
-- Zekk to Jaina, LotF: Fury
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iamobiwan1970
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
2/6 5:33pm
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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Well Zekk in Fury is older and stronger than Zekk of Dark Journey. He's many more years away from the Shadow Academy. Because of this he does bounce back from his DS brush. I think that was healthy rather than him huddling up in an emo pile for the rest of his days.
Dark Journey happens right after Myrkr. His emotions are totally open to Jaina's as a result of their bonding on the mission. He is really feeling her desparation and anger; so he knows where she is headed. Who is to say he wasn't feeling pretty angry himself. Maybe he was feeling the call of the dark and mixed with hers he knew there would be no way out.
She probably would have dragged him down. I can't compare what he did to get the ship away from Jaina to him leaving her on Hapes. Two different things to me.
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Neo-Paladin
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
2/6 5:57pm
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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I don't particularly want to see Zekk wallowing in an emo pit either. Far from it!
I do want to hear that the character went through some real growth, perhaps something vaguely resembling the seven stages of grief, and to actually see Zekk come to terms with the Dark Side as something to be contested and opposed and not feared and guilt-ridden about.
Looking back, I have been overly negative my last few posts (strident even?), and for that I apologize.
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Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.
Edward R. Murrow
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Darth_Sabith
Registered:
Oct '06
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Date Posted:
2/11 9:42am
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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Actually I think the ship only reacts to darkside energies....I'm sorry even the great Jedi Master Luke would have a difficult time facing a living ship that's force sensitive....
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Neo-Paladin
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
2/12 8:57pm
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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It was a living ship? What, Zekk couldn't just stuff it in the same plot hole that his living ship was lost in?
Soooo..
To steer this in a more positive direction, do the members of the PWLZ_C think Zekk will ever make peace with his brushes with the Dark Side? Will he ever 'heal', or will his guilt always keep the pain present?
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Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.
Edward R. Murrow
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RK_Striker_JK_5
Registered:
Jul '03
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Date Posted:
2/13 6:24am
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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Wasn't he 'over' it by the end of the YJK?  I just love the character regression so prevalant in Del Rey...
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E-married to the wonderful DarthIshtar. Now also her Padawan. Member of the Y.J.K. Revolution Staring into the Darkness http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/27537567/p1/?23
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chaotic-force
Registered:
Feb '06
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Date Posted:
2/13 7:30pm
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
- Date Edited:
2/13 7:31pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
chaotic-force
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Neo-Paladin, the "living ship" mentioned in Fury is just a Sith Meditation Sphere, that has bascially been dropped into the same black hole as his seedship, and the lightning rod...sigh.
RK_Striker_JK_5 posted:
Wasn't he 'over' it by the end of the YJK?
I think that Zekk only was able to forgive his actions at the end of YJK. He accepted that they were wrong and tried to move foreward. If he had never felt the pull of the darkside again he probably would have been fine.
The problem, and one of Zekk's core faults is that he internalizes everything. I imagine when he didn't just stop feeling the lull of the darkside, it was harder for him to feel like his past was just an isolated incident, and that maybe at his core he is more attuned to the dark than the light.
What Zekk needs to move foreward is absolution. He needs someone to confirm what he cannot, that he is at his core a good person. This would give him faith so that when he stumbles he can overcome the darkness and stop fearing the Force.
The problem is that Zekk has no one in his life that is willing to do this. The real difference between Zekk and Jaina is that he has no support system. When Jaina turned she was with Kyp, and had her parents and Luke. At the end of the day Zekk has no family biological or created.
There are only three people I think that can give Zekk the peace he needs. Luke is the first. Luke can, to be trite, save his spirit. He is the grandmaster and praise, and encouragement from him could inspire Zekk and make him feel like he has a greater purpose. The only problem is these two never speak to eachother in profic.
The second is Jag, though I am loathe to give him greater significance than he got in Fury.(just joking). Jag for better of worse is the closest thing to a real friend Zekk has now, as well as a powerful fighter. Zekk wanted to kill him when he went dark, and his forgiveness would be important and make them stronger brothers in arms for lack of a better term
The last and probably most important person Zekk needs absolution from is, Leia. She represents the government that left him in the undercity, the elitism that has bred an inferiority complex in him since childhood, and only she can really undo it. If Leia were to speak to Zekk as an equal, to say that she beleives that he is good, and praises him for staying by her daughter's side he could start a new path, and stop him from beleiving he is beneath the Solo's or that he is in general a wretched being.
Any one of these people has the key to freeing Zekk, at least in my mind. He needs to stop being the poor and broken child he was, and become the leader and powerful figure that he has the potential to be. He just needs to undo all the complexes he experienced as a child and young man.
Ok really sorry for the wall of text, I hope some of you find this idea interesting.
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Neo-Paladin
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
2/15 7:29pm
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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I quite enjoyed the wall of text cf. 
So, my one response is, in YJK Zekk was a bit of a loner, and took great pride in his independence and self reliance. Do you think there is a chance that Zekk could find his way forward by embracing that independent streak within himself, and thereby rising above the need for approbation?
Ultimately, innerpeace must come from within, no?
Not that I'm disagreeing, mind you, but the innerplay here seems to be grounds for some real conversation.
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Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.
Edward R. Murrow
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