| Author |
Topic:
People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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RK_Striker_JK_5
Registered:
Jul '03
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Date Posted:
5/12 7:40pm
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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jedi_of_ennth posted:
[
Fair enough: we'll try to avoid stock responses.  All the same, readers don't have to be happy with Del Rey. I understand your point that some posters have become irrational in their denunciation of the N.J.O., but the argument that the series mishandled preexistent characters is perfectly legitimate. This counterrevolution ("How dare we complain?") is quite as tiresome as the revolution to which it is a reaction.
I never meant to imply that you shouldn't complain at all, merely that I would love to hear more detailed reasons behind the complaints. Lines, scenes, or character moments from specific books to illustrate certain points, for example, rather than blanket statements. When I first read the NJO, I did believe that the characters had been massacred, but I've since reread the series and thought about it quite a bit; I've found that I can rationalize the changes the characters went through. If someone else can't, that's fine, but I want to hear more than, as I put it, stock responses, which tend to stifle discussion.
I'm sorry to sound so harsh, but some of these attitudes have completely driven me away from discussing Zekk or the YJK on these boards. I love Zekk and I love the YJK series, but I also love the NJO and beyond. I feel that fandom gets so negative sometimes that discussing much of anything ceases to be fun or productive; when I want to discuss Zekk in the NJO--or even Zekk in YJK!--any topic is too often met with "The NJO is awful" or "Zekk was awesome in YJK--before the NJO messed him up!"
[/quote]
Okay. But for the record, the NJO/DNT/LOTF did more than drive me away from a message board. it drove me away from something that lifted and bouyed my spirits when I was RL-suicidal.
I can't rationalize any of the changes. Not. One. Where did Zekk just up and disappear to for 9 books in the NJO? Not even a mention of him. I recall him and Jaina forging a solid friendship that was verging on something way more by the end of the YJK. Where was he when Chewie died? Not even a mention of a holocall. After she saved his soul and he saved her life...
No.
I don't accept that. I won't accept he'd drop off the face of the galaxy like that. And when he pretty much abandoned her in DJ... he was the one, even more than Kyp *Shudder* Durron to help her find her way back.
-----signature-----
E-married to the wonderful DarthIshtar. Now also her Padawan. Member of the Y.J.K. Revolution Staring into the Darkness http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/27537567/p1/?23
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Grand_Admiral_Sean8
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
5/12 7:44pm
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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jedi_of_ennth posted:
I'm sorry to sound so harsh, but some of these attitudes have completely driven me away from discussing Zekk or the YJK on these boards.
Precisely the opposite attitudes drove me away from discussing Y.J.K. on the Official Site Forums. You're correct that the lack of discussion is more irritating than the opinions expressed.
I apologize if I, too, was particularly harsh. As I said, I'm reacting to essentially the same fan environment to which you are reacting, but with a different flavor. On the Forums, anyone anti-N.J.O. is automatically "immature". There's little consideration of literary quality.
jedi_of_ennth posted:
Lines, scenes, or character moments from specific books to illustrate certain points, for example, rather than blanket statements.
Sounds like good debate technique to me.
I will say this in defense of posters who make blanket statements: sometimes people are reluctant to attack a specific author. Criticism of Author X's characterization quickly degenerates into criticism of Author X. Even if the original poster tries to remain civil, these discussions inevitably attract flamers.
jedi_of_ennth posted:
When I first read the NJO, I did believe that the characters had been massacred, but I've since reread the series and thought about it quite a bit; I've found that I can rationalize the changes the characters went through.
My complaint is that we have to rationalize the changes at all. It's certainly possible with minimal imagination, and some authors have retroactively explained the discrepancy. But it was clearly the result of a lack of communication within LucasBooks rather than any intentional program of character development.
jedi_of_ennth posted:
I feel that fandom gets so negative sometimes that discussing much of anything ceases to be fun or productive
Duh! No-one hates Star Wars as much as Star Wars fans! 
jedi_of_ennth posted:
Quite honestly, I think I'm obsessed with Zekk to a totally unhealthy degree; I didn't mean to imply that loving fictional characters was stupid.
Gotcha. I thought that would be a little ironic in this milieu. 
jedi_of_ennth posted:
Personally, I think that complete and total hatred of a product is just as harmful as complete and total adoration of the same.
Probably more harmful, really. There's nothing wrong with devotion to unusual objects -- insofar as that devotion doesn't interfere with plain decency.
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chaotic-force
Registered:
Feb '06
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Date Posted:
5/12 10:21pm
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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All this talk makes me very glad that I didn't read any of the NJO books. That said, I do understand how fans of the YJK era can be upset with DelRay, but I think that their damage to Zekk has been fairly minimal compared to other characters.
I can see Zekk as being a very hard character to write for cannon. He is very complicated, and in many ways does not make a good supporting character. In YJK he was really the main character of his own subplots, often being separated from the rest of the solos.
In many I think that Zekk does not mesh with most of the other Jedi characters. Zekk, unlike characters like Kyp, does not treat redemption like a light switch, and constantly fears falling again. He brings elements of class that most other characters ignore. These elements could be very hard to use when he is supposed to be just a supporting figure.
I do think that the writers have messed up for the most part with how, they portray other characters around Zekk. I will never understand why Han seems to have forgot all the times Zekk has saved his children's lives.
An argument I've been thinking about for justifying Jaina's and many of the other characters treatment for Zekk, is that they just take him for granted. One of the most common themes for Zekk is that he is a survivor, he has survived Ennth, the undercity, shadow academy, the vong, DN, and Alema. I think it is just assumed now by the rest of the world that Zekk will survive, which if he were to die would make it all the harder on them.
While the EU is far from perfect these days, I do think that Zekk could be in a much worse condition.
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Furyan_Jedi_13
Registered:
May '07
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Date Posted:
5/13 7:29am
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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Hey, I found this clip on youtube. Take a look and tell me what you think. It oughta pluck at your heartstrings a bit. Still does for me.
Click here
He always will be her guardian angel.
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JediSmurf
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
5/14 4:05am
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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Sometimes you guys scare me.
Just sayin'
::CRIES FOR ZEKK::
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Furyan_Jedi_13
Registered:
May '07
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Date Posted:
5/14 5:46am
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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Sometimes you guys scare me.
Just sayin'
You should see some of the Jag fans. He's an OK character, but they tend to act like he's the hottest bachelor in the galaxy.
Tell me THAT's not scary.
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ZekksGoddess
Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
5/15 5:29am
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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chaotic-force posted:
I do think that the writers have messed up for the most part with how, they portray other characters around Zekk. I will never understand why Han seems to have forgot all the times Zekk has saved his children's lives.
I'm trying to catch up with LotF, and that's something that's been really bothering me. If anything, Han at least approved of Zekk, if not liked him, in YJK and suddenly he can't stand him, to the point where he says things about it in front of large groups of people?
I think your theory that he's taken for granted is completely justified- particularly by Jaina. I feel like she just assumes he'll always be there, no matter what, since he always has been before, so she doesn't need to treat him with the same respect she treats others.
Furyan_Jedi_13 posted:
You should see some of the Jag fans. He's an OK character, but they tend to act like he's the hottest bachelor in the galaxy.
Tell me THAT's not scary.
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SoloFel_RebelGirl
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
5/15 5:38pm
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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You should see some of the Jag fans. He's an OK character, but they tend to act like he's the hottest bachelor in the galaxy.
But he is.
Zekk comes in close though. And he's definately got more of the "TALL, dark, and handsome" thing goin' on. (What can I say, the height is too much for me, the 5' tall girl...)
Are you all discussing spoilers yet? At the Jag Fel FC, we've already started, so I assume it's alright to post HTR stuff...
I haven't read the books (or even heard many spoilers), so I'm curious to read some discussions of Zekk's role.
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LotF = train
I'm soniced up.
"Sanity is not statistical." -George Orwell
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ZekksGoddess
Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
5/15 6:24pm
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
- Date Edited:
5/15 6:24pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
ZekksGoddess
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SoloFel_RebelGirl posted:
Zekk comes in close though. And he's definately got more of the "TALL, dark, and handsome" thing goin' on. (What can I say, the height is too much for me, the 5' tall girl...)
Hey, I'm 5', too! (Apologies, I always feel a kind of kinship with other short people. )
I don't know though, I prefer Zekk, too tall or no.
SoloFel_RebelGirl posted:
Are you all discussing spoilers yet? At the Jag Fel FC, we've already started, so I assume it's alright to post HTR stuff...
I was actually lurking over there this morning, and I couldn't resist the spoilers like I'd promised myself I would, since I'm not even finished Exile yet. Gah, I wish I hadn't read it.
But if anyone decides to post some news on Zekk, I'd be eager to find out how he fares.
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SoloFel_RebelGirl
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
5/15 7:02pm
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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I don't know though, I prefer Zekk, too tall or no.
I like to dance. It would be too awkward.
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LotF = train
I'm soniced up.
"Sanity is not statistical." -George Orwell
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Furyan_Jedi_13
Registered:
May '07
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Date Posted:
5/16 1:28am
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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I'm trying to catch up with LotF, and that's something that's been really bothering me. If anything, Han at least approved of Zekk, if not liked him, in YJK and suddenly he can't stand him, to the point where he says things about it in front of large groups of people?
Whereas he seems to really like Jag.  I'm thinking that might be the authors playing favourites or are just plain inconsistent with the story-telling. Either one seems likely, but I'd probably be willing to bet on the latter. But that's just me.
I think Del Rey and the authors did not do their homework. If they did, I doubt the YJK group would have been so badly screwed up in NJO and beyond.
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Sinrebirth
Title: Hierarch and Chancellor of EUCity
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
5/16 2:18am
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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I think Han was just being a typically grumpy father in Betrayal, but henceforth he's normal with Zekk throughout...
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ZekksGoddess
Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
5/16 9:56am
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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Furyan_Jedi_13 posted:
Whereas he seems to really like Jag. I'm thinking that might be the authors playing favourites or are just plain inconsistent with the story-telling. Either one seems likely, but I'd probably be willing to bet on the latter. But that's just me.
Yeah, that threw me a little, too. I could have missed it, but I don't remember Han being so keen on Jag? Or Kyp, for that matter.
“Okay, maybe I’ll relax by asking Zekk what his intentions are towards Jaina.”
“That would help matters a lot…”
“I liked Kyp better. Whatever happened there?” Han asked. “And what about Jag?”
That whole excerpt from Bloodlines stumped me, I must admit.
Sinrebirth posted:
I think Han was just being a typically grumpy father in Betrayal
I was ready to chalk it up to over-protectiveness, too, until Zekk was the only one that grumpiness was aimed at (see quote above).
Of course, I'm only speaking from the first three novels.
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SoloFel_RebelGirl
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
5/16 11:04am
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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Jag and Kyp (Kyp especially) don't follow Jaina around like little lost puppy dogs.
Nor do they rub forearms with her... -shudder-
I bet if we see some J/J romance developing in front of Han he'd be throwing evil glares at Jag, too.
Or, conversely, if Zekk were to approach Han asking for permission to marry Jaina, Han would, IMO, warm up to him.
He just doesn't like this "OMG JAINA *cling*" stage.
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LotF = train
I'm soniced up.
"Sanity is not statistical." -George Orwell
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jedi_of_ennth
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
5/16 11:43am
Subject:
RE: People Who Like Zekk _____ Coalition
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SoloFel_RebelGirl posted:
Or, conversely, if Zekk were to approach Han asking for permission to marry Jaina, Han would, IMO, warm up to him.
I hope, if Zekk ever decided to propose to Jaina, he would realize that Jaina is the only one whose permission he needs. After all, she's the Sword of the Jedi and over thirty years old; I really hate this idea that Jaina's suitors should ask for Han's permission to take her hand in marriage. Call me crazy, but I think Jaina lives in a time when it's the woman's choice, not her father's, who she decides to spend her life with.
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"I'm your friend. I love you."
-- Zekk to Jaina, LotF: Fury
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