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Topic:
Mara Jade Hater Club
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Jedi_Suzuran
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
9/18/02 11:12am
Subject:
RE: Mara Jade Hater Club
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Luke was raised to be honest. He is.
Mara was raised to skulk around and try to play little games, and that happens in most "royal" courts.
Good point, Tiershon. Mara was raised to be sneaky, pompous, and trust no one. Such is the nature of courtiers and sycophants the world (or in this case, galaxy) over.
She could have over come that tendency. It would have made her a worthy character. She hasn't done that, she still treats people with contempt, including her new "family". 
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Suzaé, Handmaiden of the Crest
Su is like, the Den Mother of Perv  -- Etessie
For My Soul http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=9409845&replies=0 COMPLETE 5/26 
...as shadows claim my light.
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DVader316
Registered:
Feb '00
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Date Posted:
9/18/02 11:21am
Subject:
RE: Mara Jade Hater Club
- Date Edited:
9/18/02 11:22am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
DVader316
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People will only change if they truly and deeply want to, and this obviously wont happen as far as Mara is concerned. It seems that she is perfectly content being a pretentious and selfish person (among other things too numerous to mention).
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Currently Re-reading: Heroes Die by Matthew Woodring Stover
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Jedi_Suzuran
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
9/18/02 11:28am
Subject:
RE: Mara Jade Hater Club
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True, which is why she hasn't been redeemed and why her becoming a Jedi is pathetic as hell.
True repentance comes from acknowledging your mistakes, accepting them, and changing for the better. Vader managed to do this. Why can't Tang?
She's acknowledge them, I think. But has she accepted them and changed? Nope.
And she won't, either.
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FIGS
Suzaé, Handmaiden of the Crest
Su is like, the Den Mother of Perv -- Etessie
For My Soul http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=9409845&replies=0 COMPLETE 5/26
...as shadows claim my light.
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Nephrite
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
9/18/02 11:30am
Subject:
RE: Mara Jade Hater Club
- Date Edited:
9/18/02 11:32am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Nephrite
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About the location of the Jedi Academy, it should stay were it is. If a student can't resist the Dark Side be cause of some dark spirit, then he should not be trained. The presence of this dark spirit should be in a way a trial for a future apprentice. Put him in a closed chamber on Yavin 4 with nothing but a lightsaber and teletubbies and if after 2 hours the tubbies are alive and without any injuries unless caused by themself, the kid will be trained.
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"The sea was angry that day, my friends, like an old man trying to send back soup in a deli." - George Costanza
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Jedi_Suzuran
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
9/18/02 11:34am
Subject:
RE: Mara Jade Hater Club
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LOL!
The teletubbies are of the dark side. 
Luke keeping the academy at Yavin is a good idea. It was the place where he joined the Rebellion, destroyed the first Death Star, and symbolically started his hero journey. It holds many memories for him. Why not there?
And the Jedi students defeated the dark ghost. So why move it after they proved that they were Jedi? No more ghosts, no more problems. And it's also a world teeming with life.
I see no problems with the location at all.
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Suzaé, Handmaiden of the Crest
Su is like, the Den Mother of Perv -- Etessie
For My Soul http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=9409845&replies=0 COMPLETE 5/26
...as shadows claim my light.
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Aunecah_Skywalker
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
9/18/02 12:14pm
Subject:
RE: Mara Jade Hater Club
- Date Edited:
9/18/02 12:15pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Aunecah_Skywalker
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Jedi_Liz : I'm just going to post here what I said before:
"Such as not moving your Jedi academy off Yavin when you first found out a really nasty dark side power was infesting the place."
Running from danger and threatening situations is not going to help anyone. If Luke has to change the location of the Jedi Academy every single time there is an obstacle/threat, then he's going to be changing the Academy's location forever. Simply put, there isn't a place in this universe where there isn't a problem. Granted, this is the Darkside we are talking about, and the Darkside is a serious hindrance. The young Hopefuls might not be able to counter the influence the Darkside might have on them. But how was Luke supposed to know all this?
Besides, he learned one of his first "true" lessons in the Cave of Dagobah - that you'll only become what you make of yourself. The cave was engulfed in the Darkside. Should Yoda have not sent him into the cave?
Morever, Luke had an attatchment to Yavin, possibly because this is where he first "officially" joined the Rebel Alliance, and possibly because this is where he destroyed the Death Star I. Nobody can blame him for wanting to stay there. Anyway, as Mara was so quick to point out (at least indirectly if not directly), Luke was young, inexperienced.
Aunecah_Skwyalker
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Sreya
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
9/18/02 12:27pm
Subject:
RE: Mara Jade Hater Club
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Did anyone else notice that KJA ended Champions of the Force with Kyp more or less facing the same thing Luke did? Yoda sent Luke into the dark Cave. Luke sent Kyp into the dark temple. Luke faced his inner darkness. Kyp faced his inner darkness.
DUH!!!!!
KJA set up a WONDERFUL correlation here with the movies. The whole point of having the dark temple is that it provides Luke with a testing ground for his students... and a controlled one, at that. The concentration of darkness they face there is enough to test their mettle, so to speak, without putting them into a situation that is dangerously uncontrollable.
This setup is one of the best I've seen come out of the EU to date.
Why did Mara protest it? Well, maybe she's afraid of what SHE would see if sent into the dark temple. Any guesses on what she would have to face? And whether she would be able to pass the test?
My guess is that she would see herself as the Emperor's Hand again, with all the power and prestige that goes with it. Most likely, she'd strike out in anger against the vision, in what she would interpret as the right thing to do. Riiiiight.......
Sreya
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They were in the wrong place at the wrong time... naturally, they became heroes.
~Princess Leia
SouloftheJedi.net -- the next best thing to chocolate cake!
SouloftheWizard.net -- Better than Bertie Botts Beans!
Shout out the Tang Stain! MJHC
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Aunecah_Skywalker
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
9/18/02 12:35pm
Subject:
RE: Mara Jade Hater Club
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I think Mara would have seen Emperor Palpatine - accusing her of "joining" the New Republic (which isn't exactly the truth) and not killing Luke Skywalker. If she turned - which she should - then she would probably go start another Luke-hunt. This time Luke would either kill her (unlikely - considering the authors) or he would turn her back to the Lightside and marry her (which just is revolting, but probably teh reality).
Aunecah_Skywalker
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Sreya
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
9/18/02 12:39pm
Subject:
RE: Mara Jade Hater Club
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Aunecah, that's not reality, it's a twisted demented dimension!!!!!! 
Gang, I know we're losing the clubhouse soon... let's try to keep some team spirit over in the Haters' Community. Always add MJHC with your signature when posting in there, okay?
 I can't even sit online to be here when it happens!
Darned Mara and her evil powers... they extend even here. 
Sreya
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They were in the wrong place at the wrong time... naturally, they became heroes.
~Princess Leia
SouloftheJedi.net -- the next best thing to chocolate cake!
SouloftheWizard.net -- Better than Bertie Botts Beans!
Shout out the Tang Stain! MJHC
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Jedi_Suzuran
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
9/18/02 12:43pm
Subject:
RE: Mara Jade Hater Club
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Palpy would definetely have called her a traitor. Mara wouldn't have been able to handle it.
For all her joining the Jedi, she was proud of the murdering she did as a lackey. Being taken to task isn't something she takes to (notice that when Luke snapped at her about the Lando relationship ["nothing happened"--riiiiiiiiiiight! ] Zahn made him back down) and she would have acted out in anger, and turned.
No matter that people hate KJA, he did something right. He had Luke make Kyp face his deeds. Mara has never done that. Why? Cause she's too wimpy to face her past and acknowledge her mistakes.
I agree, Aunecah, Luke would have killed her (good thing) or turned her to the light and married her. A bad thing, of course, but if she was truly redeemed, then ultimately forgiveable.
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FIGS
Suzaé, Handmaiden of the Crest
Su is like, the Den Mother of Perv -- Etessie
For My Soul http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=9409845&replies=0 COMPLETE 5/26
...as shadows claim my light.
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Nephrite
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
9/18/02 12:54pm
Subject:
RE: Mara Jade Hater Club
- Date Edited:
9/18/02 12:57pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Nephrite
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If Mara would enter the dark temple she would see an ugly version of herself, the version that didn't have the benefits of all sorts of cosmetic products Jaded One had. It would probaly kill her.
Good.
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"The sea was angry that day, my friends, like an old man trying to send back soup in a deli." - George Costanza
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Darth Pipes
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
9/18/02 2:56pm
Subject:
RE: Mara Jade Hater Club
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She'd see a world where everyone hated her and would learn just how much of an evil, murdering ***** she really was.
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Darth Pipes
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
9/18/02 2:57pm
Subject:
RE: Mara Jade Hater Club
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Nearly 2500 posts of hatred for La Matress. Before those people shut it down, let's drive this up some more!
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Obi_Wans_love_child
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
9/18/02 3:00pm
Subject:
RE: Mara Jade Hater Club
- Date Edited:
9/18/02 3:43pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Obi_Wans_love_child
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I return
I am pretty sure I read somewhere (though I can't figure out where I read it) that the reason Luke was fixed with Mara because everyone (as in the *authors*) felt bad for all the torment they put him through and decided that he finally needs to have a life.
Actually there have been a few answers to this one. The one I have read the most comes from Tim Zahn. Zahn states when he was asked to kinda wrap up the Bantam series, he asked to do two things. One of them was get Luke and Mara together. He never went into great detail if he felt sorry for Luke or just wished to give Luke the beginning of his own family.
I will agree with ya Aunecah, Zahn has never been that good with intense emotions or feelings. Its just not one of his strong points. I have always wished if Zahn had some how gotten more in depth with the feelings that had been shown and introspection with Luke and Mara the book would have been better overall. We get a glimpse here and there, but only a glimpse. Such as when Luke watches Mara in her healing trance or vice versa. It was an opening, but it was never followed.
I was very unsatisfied with the ending, also. The reason for which Luke asked Mara to marry him seemed unnatural. Also, the fact that they never really explored Luke's and Mara's married lives (aft. the book) and suddenly here we are in the NJO, in which Luke is willing to die for Mara and (esp.!)vice versa.
The ending felt like it was supposed to end the Bantam series and yet provide this broad opening for when Del Rey took over. I would have loved to hear about the marriage or honeymoon or first few years of their lives together. We may get this thanks to the second Zahn book in a few years, but alas its a few years away. If Zahn puts out a strong book explaining things out somewhat and provides more understanding into Mara's past might this change the mind of some of you who dislike her?
Groove with me Aunecah
The whole marraige was done badly... because they shouldn't have married in the first place. Talk about a dysfunctional relationship! She wanted, and tried, to kill him, he's trying to train her, she blames him for all that's wrong in the universe, he tries to excuse everything wrong she's ever done...
Sreya It is science fiction. But remember they had no relationship while she was trying to kill him so there is no dysfunction. As for blaming him for all that is wrong inthe universe, that seems a bit far-fetched to me. She does go off on a tangent about the things he did wrong, but by no means does she blame him for things like Caamas, or the Empire still being around. She blames Luke for being on the wrong path for himself, not other things. Also he does not try to excuse anything she has ever done. He does try and come up with an explanation which says she never truly went over to the darkside, but she herself shoots that down and thus admits to doing things which were evil. The whole spouse abuse thing is just weak also, becareful Sreya.
Alright J_S lets dance 
Also, Aunecah brings up a great point. Mara has no right whatsoever to lecture Luke on being a Jedi Master after 10 years. So what? He knew of the Force way longer than Tang did.
And she became a Knight, let alone a Master, in less than 10?
Uh-huh, sure, you have a right to lecture, Mara.
I will never say Mara had the right to lecture Luke, but sometimes its not about having the right. Sometimes one just needs another point of view. Take Jacen and Vergere. Vergere may not be right with her ideas about the force, but they helped Jacen see things differently and from that Jacen understood more. As for becoming a knight and then a master. Mara essentially became a knight at the end of VoTF. She is a Master as early on as VP which is 6 years later. Luke became a knight at the end of RoTJ and became a master at around 6 years afterwards. If Luke shares everything with his wife one could conclude she could progress in her mastery of the force at about the same speed.
Man I go away for some of the day and miss out on a lot of stuff.
As I see Aunecah post again on the Sreya post, I gotta say the blaming Luke for everything in the universe is lacking proof. And with Luke supposedly forgiving her for all her past history, that is another issue. Its not as if it has not happened before. Kyp Durron and that whole thing. Luke always tries to bring people back and find the good in them, its not just for Mara. He usually succeeds too.
The divorce thing is kinda laughable so I will just kinda bypass that.
I wonder why Obi_Wans_Love_Child suddenly stopped visiting this thread. I was so looking forward to his answer.
Kinda busy with other things, but I wont be away for ever.
It irritates that she plays a little game with Luke, where he gets the 3rd degree from Mara until he comes up with the "right" answer. If he doesn't read her mind, she sighs and gets all impatient. Why does she think she knows everything? Why is she portraed as always being right?
Is she always portrayed as being right? Take the EL duology for example. She felt she had to stay with Ben no matter what and Luke was the one to tell her she was wrong. Mara did not know why she was blocked from hearing those leathery birdy things in VotF and Luke is the one who tells her why. She has her wrong moments in the EU.
She could have over come that tendency. It would have made her a worthy character. She hasn't done that, she still treats people with contempt, including her new "family".
She treats everyone with contempt? She treats some with contempt and not others. Its a matter of point of view. A lot of people see Mara the way they wish. She is one of those characters you can do that way.
True, which is why she hasn't been redeemed and why her becoming a Jedi is pathetic as hell.
So according to you and DV she never sacrifices anything for anyone? She never gives of herself to others and only thinks of one person, Mara? Is this what you are trying to say?
Palpy would definetely have called her a traitor. Mara wouldn't have been able to handle it.
How do you know Mara would not have been able to handle it? You think she would just cave and show no back bone? Isn't this the opposite of what you have been saying calling her overbearing? As for the whole facing your darkside, who knows what happened during the 6 years inbetween VoTF and VP. That may be something we see in this book from Zahn, or not.
Now a question. For 6 years according to the new essential guide for characters, Mara flitted around with Mirrax or helped jedi graduates with assignments. I ask you, was this to easy a fix or does it allow for enough leeway to allow for the book Zahn will be writing? If it allows for the leeway and Mara goes thru a form of redemption, what might that say to you who dislike her?(I know I asked this earlier, but I figured I would ask it again).
Well folks I may be back again I have other things I gotta do, but who knows. In the immortal words of Kevin Bacon in Footloose. Lets Dance!!!!!!!!!!!!
OWLC
Edit: Uh not every post is of hatred
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Jedi_Suzuran
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
9/18/02 3:38pm
Subject:
RE: Mara Jade Hater Club
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A short go around.
She treats everyone with contempt?
For the most part, I believe so, yes. If you talk badly about your sister-in-law's mothering while being civil to her face, then that is holding contempt for a person, or worse yet, being two-faced.
So according to you and DV she never sacrifices anything for anyone? She never gives of herself to others and only thinks of one person, Mara?
Yup.
Seriously, as I posted on page 96 last night, she is selfish. Running away from the Force was selfish on her part. She had the gift of the Force. Instead of choosing the path of Jedi service (knowing that the New Republic needed Jedi Knights, and since she was now with them "unofficially) she kept on her smuggling job. Selfish, I say.
That's all I can say for now.
Perhaps more later.
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Suzaé, Handmaiden of the Crest
Su is like, the Den Mother of Perv -- Etessie
For My Soul http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=9409845&replies=0 COMPLETE 5/26
...as shadows claim my light.
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