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Author	Topic: Mara Jade Hater Club
Obi_Wans_love_child Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 9/18/02 3:49pm Subject: RE: Mara Jade Hater Club
	Seriously, as I posted on page 96 last night, she is selfish. Running away from the Force was selfish on her part. She had the gift of the Force. Instead of choosing the path of Jedi service (knowing that the New Republic needed Jedi Knights, and since she was now with them "unofficially) she kept on her smuggling job. Selfish, I say. Perhaps the path of the jedi was not right for her at that time. She at that time may not have chosen to be a jedi, but in the end she did choose the path of the jedi. She did have her selfish moments i will never deny this, but she did choose the jedi path and now is sticking with it. As for her totally being selfish, she has shown her moments of utter concern. She almost died protecting her unborn child instead of doing anything else to risk Ben. She was willing to sacrifice herself for Luke in VoTF. She is not just doing anything she pleases in the NJO, but fighting with everyone. Risking her life by going to Coruscant or staying with Luke as he watches the Lusankya crash into the world ship. She shows a fierce loyalty to others and I wonder how one can show a fierce loyalty and yet be selfish. OWLC -----signature----- My Obi Wan Fic: http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=10511390&replies=6 My Second Obi Wan Fic: http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=11038698&replies=0
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Tiershon_Fett Registered: Oct '00	Date Posted: 9/18/02 3:58pm Subject: RE: Mara Jade Hater Club
	I don't know, OWLC, I wrote a long post where I thought I could post it, but still was banned. i tried to cut and paste it to mail, but it's stupid MSN, so I couldn't. Essentially, I will never like Mara. I can't forgive her, and she can't be 'redeemed.' My mom's family lived in Romania (that's what it's called now) They lived on that land so long ago, the Roman Empire sent Sentinels to survey the mountains there, and my family allowed them to do so, and in exchange the RE built a big house in the forest for the soldiers. My mom grew up in that house. This was nearly 2000 years ago. Well, then WWII happens,and it changes the fortunes and destinies of billions of people. My family no exception. My grandmother manged to keep her family together. It wasn't easy. The Communists came and took over in 1951. Since my grandfather lived in Austria, because he was not allowed to go home, He worked 12 hours a day, for 10 years to "pay" to get his family out. My mom grew up the first ten years without him. They starved. My mom was ten and looked five. No teeth, they all fell out. Then they got out. But only them, and at the business end of a machine gun. They rest of my entire family was stuck there under a madman named Coucescou (sp?). In 1989, most of my family were killed in the revolution. Or they are scattered. Never have heard from any of them again. One whole side. About 150+ family members. We can only assume they are dead. That's why there's so many little orphans there. Parents killed. When all the years this was happening the government would do "sweeps" where they would go from house to house and strip the people of every stitch of usable goods. That is the reality of "sanctions". The bullies in charge never starve, just the slave population they oppress. A sweep consists of taking toilet paper, lightbulbs, firewood and food. In a place where the winters are frigid and it snows nonstop. It is absolute cruelty. So what does this have to with Mara? Everything. She is exactly the person who evilly killed and tormented people who were powerless, and gloated over the fact. Whenever I read about her gloating about her lofty great priveledged position, I see my beaten and tormented family. I see her standing over them with machine guns and taking all they have. And laughing at them mockingly because she could. Because she wanted to. Doctrine allows perversions, but that doesn't make the perversions right. So following orders doesn't fly in my book. Mara was "following orders". And she so "Loyal" (Luke, how dare you?). Given the cruel and totalitarian ways of the Empire, these are the cowardly acts she commited. If she was truly remorseful, she would have walked away, unsupervised. Not when it didn't matter anymore. After it was all over. She didn't show an ounce of courage. She didn't stand up to evil. She knew it was wrong. we are all born with a sense of right and wrong. We learn all of our morals and values at three. She was still with her family then, so don't give that bull that she didn't know any better. But she had it good, and would never have left if Palpatine hadn't died. She would have stayed there until she died. Men (and women) that commit atrocities and then say they were following orders are nothing but liars, cowards, and murderers, that hide behind a flag or a badge to do unspeakable things. Then when it's all over they want to be treated as if it never happened, and all is inconsequential. Well, it's not inconsequential to me. If she can make all the people that she killed, and that her peers killed, in cold blood, alive again. And she could undo the parties she went to to celebrate the destruction of Alderaan (which Palps is perverted enogh to do0, and all the family members of the people she hurt forgive her, then she will be totally redeemed. That can't happen, can it? To me, if you have done such wrong, and want to be forgiven, then you look the person/s you hurt in the EYE, and you tell them how sorry you are, you tell them you are wrong, was wrong, and will always be wrong that you did what you did. If Mara got a Holonet Station, and apologized in front of the galaxy, and made herself vulnerable to jeers, hate, tears, and anger, and took it like a woman, I would believe she was sorry. Will this ever happen? I doubt it. I do not condone it if the people who killed my family off, when they were defenseless, starving and weak, go on to marry the president (so to speak) of a country, and having all this luxury and respect after what they did. I hate these people. Do you not undestand this? They don't deserve to walk away as they in fact have, unpunished, because they were following orders. Think of one cousin of yours being murdered and the murderer going to have thousands of adoring fans that think the murderer is great and everything is okay because they crashed their car. I think my family was worth more than a ship, car, or plane or all three. You would be pretty ticked. I am. No one has ever been fingered or identitfied. They were "Imps". They all looked alike, acted alike. That's why I hate mara. She simply doesn't deserve what she has. Just doesn't deserve it. She should be in jail. Yes, it's only fiction, and all that, but it is a message that you can get away with anything, if you get with the right crowd, and are good looking. Then you can get away with genocide and it's all okay. Too bad it's all too true. SW was always my sanctuary as a kid, from an ugly world, where goodness and doing right always prevailed. With Mara being married to Luke, it's like someone desecrating and trashing my 'temple'. I can't go there anymore and feel it is a place of comfort. That's why I'll never like Mara. I don't care how sorry she is. It's just not good enough. And she doesn't seem sorry to me... Why did Mara have to do what she did? Why did she do it? Why is a job and pretty clothes and a nice house more important than people's lives? Why, because she says she's different, is she absolved? I just don't understand how Luke can lay next to such a depraved person. I don't understand how Leia can think how she could ever have mistrusted Mara. Do they all have amnesia? Don't they remember their enemies. Mara was one of them. Gimme a break! It is not that easy to forgive and forget. Trust me. -----signature----- It's been an experience. 8000, and done!
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Aunecah_Skywalker Registered: Mar '02	Date Posted: 9/18/02 4:04pm Subject: RE: Mara Jade Hater Club
	Today is not my day. First I was having problems with remembering my username on a different site that I rarely used. And then I have trouble remembering my password. Even my hint doesn't seem to work! . Anyway, OWLC , you've finally answered, and I'm going to kick the ball right back into your court. Here you go: . . . . To your first post : The brain is different fundamentally at say 1 and 15 or 15 and 30. Differences in hormone levels, synaptic connections, activity levels, and other little joys I agree. The brain is different. But if you ever looked at the learning curve, you will realize that we learn the most in the first ten or so years of our life. Then it will take a sharp decline in our ability to learn and then rise a miniscule level in our late teen years, and then drop a little, and basically stay that way. Luke has no idea about what the Force is when he first met Ben. Same with Obi-Wan, when he is an year-old. If you teach them both about the Force from the fundamentals, who's going to learn quicker? One thing that stops adults from learning too much is that they already know a lot about the world and have already come up with a value/knowledge system of their own. Sometimes, this is a hindrance because you close up your brain and not allow any new information, opposing view to get in. Because everyone wants themselves to be right! (I'm not saying Luke is completely like this, but he is more like this than Obi-Wan. ) So, yes, you can compare Obi when he's fifteen and Luke when he's thirty. He [Luke] was a mix of the two pathes you described. So are the Jedi of the OJO. What I'm saying is that Luke shows predominantly the characteristics of being in #1, while the Jedi of the OJO, in #2. I think we both just got mixed up in communicating things. That sometimes is a problem. Why wasn't Yoda out letting loose with this super flip green terror attacks like we saw in ATOC or working with the rebellion once it was established? I was rather under the opinion that Yoda was following the will of the Force. Because if he wanted to defeat the Emperor and save the Jedi, he could just have done that even before Anakin and Palpy killed everyone. Yoda is wise in that he follows the will of the Force and realizes that sometimes people have to die for the "better" of the galaxy - that if you have too much good, it's ultimately going to lead to evil. But that's just me. But speaking of developing too much in only one area.... Imagine this: If you have a good deal of knowledge in how to write, how to read, and how to speak, but you don't know how to type. And suppose that the entire galaxy is going to die if you can't type. If you spend ten hours a day learning to type, is that overdeveloping? Say, you're a master now, can type ten thousand words per minute. If you spend ten hours a day typing ... then that's addiction. Luke is still learning, so it is only natural that he spends much time dwelling into the Force. If when twenty or thirty years later he still spends that much time and effort diving into the depths of the mystical energy, then yes, he maybe addicted. But usually, one stops when s/he becomes a professional in something. After spending say an year on learning to type, would you want to spend more time typing than that is required of you? Sooner or later one can not live in the deep of the ocean. I understand. But what I'm saying is Luke is still trying to get into the deep of the ocean. And yes, you can't just forever keep going in and in and in to the ocean. But the point is Luke doesn't always use the Force. Like in his sleep. Like when he goes to Myrkr. Like when he sees a girl and falls in love and she dumps him. Like when he is eating with his eyes, seeing with his ears, thinking with his mouth, and hearing with his stomach. Luke started learning the Force when he was what? - 17, 19? When you learn something that late in life, you don't get OVER-familiar with it until later in life. The Force for Anakin, Jaina, and Jacen, for example, is like second nature. They were so used to using it from Day 1 that they don't even think about it. That's not how it is to Luke. It's like if you learn two languages - your native language which you have been speaking since you were born, and another language that you started learning in school. No matter how perfect you are in the language, if somebody stomps on your foot, you start cursing at him or her in your native language rather than the language that you learned. This might not be true after forty or fifty years, but when Mara lectured him about it, it hasn't yet been forty or fifty years. To Mara sacrificing her freedom and independence is very much a huge sacrifice. To others it may seem petty, but to others I would be willing to bet they understood exactly where she is coming from. This reminds me if this Star Trek Voyager episode that I saw in which a planet has law that is based on the fact that delinquants are to be punished by the ones who were affected by that crime. It is argued that in the eyes of a judge the book that the thief stole might be a simple thing, but for the family that he stole it from, it might be their life. And I can imagine if you say Mara felt she destroyed part of herself when she let go of her ship and let it be destroyed. But the thing is, is that enough to be able to let go of every wrong thing that she did in the past? I love writing. It means a lot to me to be able to write. If for some reason I have to give it up and can never write again, would that mean that I become a Jedi? And suppose that I did all things that Mara did - and even gave my best shot at killing the galaxy's last hope, on keeping the dictatorship and the dictator alive. Just because I gave up my favorite hobbie, would I be justified to actually leave the guilt I carry over all those years of doing ethically wrong things? In Harry Potter, Harry's Nimbus boomstrick is destroyed. Does that mean that just because he lost his broomstick, he's excused for sneaking around at night? (though I wouldn't want Harry to do anything than that [face_embarrassed]) I will agree with ya Aunecah, Zahn has never been that good with intense emotions or feelings. Its just not one of his strong points. I have always wished if Zahn had some how gotten more in depth with the feelings that had been shown and introspection with Luke and Mara the book would have been better overall. We get a glimpse here and there, but only a glimpse. Such as when Luke watches Mara in her healing trance or vice versa. It was an opening, but it was never followed. [/blockqoute] I concur. The whole reason why their marriage seems to be built in thin air is because no author ever really built upon their realtionship through their emotions. All we get is: Luke taking Mara's hand and asking her to marry him, Luke and Mara sitting and joking about Leia, Luke taking Mara's hand and saying come back soon, Mara telling Luke that he better not care for her or her son because she just won't allow herself to be cared for.... Lada, lada, la. [blockquote]. If Zahn puts out a strong book explaining things out somewhat and provides more understanding into Mara's past might this change the mind of some of you who dislike her? Absolutely. I've said this many times, and I'll say it again. If the authors will make the character better, then I have no trouble liking the character better. For example, I didn't like the way Leia treated Han in Courtship of Princess Leia book. But after that one, there were others in which I felt sympathetic toward her - and liked her - because the authors portreyed her in a way that I liked, but that which was consistent with her overall characterization. Even in the movies, I didn't like her in a certain scenes, but when she changed her attitude, so did I. Mara essentially became a knight at the end of VoTF. She is a Master as early on as VP which is 6 years later. Luke became a knight at the end of RoTJ and became a master at around 6 years afterwards. Are you kidding, OWLC ? I don't have any books with me right now. But even Jaina and Jacen were eight (right?) in VotF; and at least a year or two took place after RotJ - making it a total of ten years! - it has to be at least >8. As I see Aunecah post again on the Sreya post, I gotta say the blaming Luke for everything in the universe is lacking proof. I admit that Mara doesn't blame Luke for everything that happens in the universe. What I meant was that Mara (primarily at the time of the lecture, and sometimes later) basically picked every single detail of what Luke did over the past years and attatched them to "things done wrong." (You haven't replied to that part of that post when I discussed all that. Did that get back-logged or something?) Kinda busy with other things, but I wont be away for ever. Good. Wouldn't want for that to happen. . . . . ::Looks up.:: WOW. [face_shocked] Aunecah_Skywalker
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Obi_Wans_love_child Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 9/18/02 4:10pm Subject: RE: Mara Jade Hater Club
	I believe you and I dont think I can ever understand where you are coming from, but I see what you are saying. I am curious, what do you think of Tycho? I know that no argument can be made, but I am curious what you think of those people who were formerly imperials and then became rebels or part of the republic? Some of these people did some nasty things. If you dont wish to answer I understand. OWLC -----signature----- My Obi Wan Fic: http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=10511390&replies=6 My Second Obi Wan Fic: http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=11038698&replies=0
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Jedi_Suzuran Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 9/18/02 4:17pm Subject: RE: Mara Jade Hater Club
	applauds Tiershon's post Thus we come to one of the fundamental reasons why we hate her. SHE HAS NO MORALS. She stayed with Palpy. She was proud of what she did, she b****d to Luke about loosing her position when Palpy died. NO FREAKIN' REMORSE. Aside from Tiershon's very a propos real-life example, I would cite my own, but won't. I'll stick with the SW galaxy for now. Take Biggs. He joined the Imperial Academy, to train as a pilot. Even though he was low on the totem pole, he saw the evil of the Empire. He jumped ship and joined the Rebellion. He did what his heart told him was right. Or better yet, take Han. He was also in the Imperial Academy, and he walked away from a promising future with them to free a slave.Chewie. Because he didn't like the injustice. Mara never did those things. It doesn't matter if she's turned goody-goody now. THE PAST MATTERS. We are defined by our past and our memories, our deeds. Being an assassin is her past, and it's an utterly despicable past. She will ALWAYS be this way, I don't care if she wins Galactic Mother and Wife of the Year until she's 99 years old. SHE WILL ALWAYS BE A MURDERER. Why do you think that people in the galaxy found it so hard to forgive Darth Vader? He was a murderer also. He redeemed himself, in some people's eyes, but in many, many others, he would always be a murderer. ALWAYS. Tang should not be lauded for her present. She should be condemned for her past, which the SW protagonists have never done. Shame on them, and on all the other authors who never did so either. And before anyone jumps in and says that you can't hold it against them for their entire lives, think for a moment. If your family member was killed by an assassin, would you suddenly say it's all cool if she marries the head of a benevolent and helpful Order? Hell no! Would you forgive the murderer? F*** NO! You would always blame the person who took your loved one away from you, who denied you a few more years, days, weeks with him/her. Always you would feel a void, a sadness, bereft because you were cheated. THAT DESERVES NO FORGIVENESS. By extension, Mara deserves no forgiveness either. If she truly apologized or was punished (which you bet your sweet butt would have happened if Vader had lived after ROTJ) then there would be a chance of forgiveness. As of now, and the way things are going, ain't gonna happen. -----signature----- FIGS Suzaé, Handmaiden of the Crest Su is like, the Den Mother of Perv -- Etessie For My Soul http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=9409845&replies=0 COMPLETE 5/26 ...as shadows claim my light.
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Tiershon_Fett Registered: Oct '00	Date Posted: 9/18/02 4:22pm Subject: RE: Mara Jade Hater Club
	I think Tycho got back what he gave a thousand times with the destruction of Alderaan. I think people don't comprehend what happened to Alderaan. What if someone blew up the Earth. I would have millions of regrets. I struggle sometimes with the depth of losses people have. I am very empathetic, to what people go through. Tycho paid dearly. Mara reminds me of the guys that lived high on the hog, having everything, and them when the Nuremburg trials roll around off to Brazil they went. Never paid for their wrong doing. They got a cake walk. that is Mara to me. All she ever lamented about is losing her job. "I had power and prestige, and you took it all away from me. So I should kill you for that alone!" Well CRY me a river why don't you? Tycho had shcok and etrayal to a degree I cannot even imagine. Here you are serving someone, and there goes your whole planet, your family, everything. Mara didn't lose anything dear, just her elevated position. At that time she was incapable of love. I don't think it's the same. not all soldiers are bad. I think mara was one of the bad ones. Do you think God overlooks assasins? Do you think it's not a stain on someone's soul to kill an unsuspecting person at dinner or at home. It's not in the field. Basically it hunting a person. It's not any different than all these murderers you hear about that stalk and take people to kill. It's not the same as a dogfight, or a battlefield. It's mafia type stuff. I hate the mafia. They are lowlifes. -----signature----- It's been an experience. 8000, and done!
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Sreya Registered: Aug '00	Date Posted: 9/18/02 4:23pm Subject: RE: Mara Jade Hater Club
	For 6 years according to the new essential guide for characters, Mara flitted around with Mirrax or helped jedi graduates with assignments. So when Mara should have FINALLY devoted herself to her Jedi training, she is, once again, "flitting" around the galaxy? Does this woman EVER get more than a week of consecutive training? And yet she's called a Jedi Master!!! sometimes its not about having the right. Sometimes one just needs another point of view. But it becomes absolutely worthless and hypocritical when that POV comes out of the wrong mouth. I'm sorry, but Mara has no clue what she's talking about half the time, and certainly she doesn't have the discipline and experience to back up her claims. She's shooting her mouth off with whatever sounds good at the time. If Luke had to hear this baloney (which I don't think he did, but that's another subject), it should have come from someone worth their salt, not Ms. Emperor's Hand Mara. Tiershon, that has got to be one of the most poignant explanations of what is wrong with Mara that I've ever seen. Thank you so much for posting it. -----signature----- They were in the wrong place at the wrong time... naturally, they became heroes. ~Princess Leia SouloftheJedi.net -- the next best thing to chocolate cake! SouloftheWizard.net -- Better than Bertie Botts Beans! Shout out the Tang Stain! MJHC
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Aunecah_Skywalker Registered: Mar '02	Date Posted: 9/18/02 4:27pm Subject: RE: Mara Jade Hater Club
	Nice post, Tiershon. I'll write a more constructive reply later. Aunecah_Skywalker
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Tiershon_Fett Registered: Oct '00	Date Posted: 9/18/02 4:36pm Subject: RE: Mara Jade Hater Club - Date Edited: 9/18/02 4:39pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Tiershon_Fett
	You're welcome. I feel numb more than anything, concerning my family. It's hard to wrap your brain around. The sad thing we are hardly special. The whole entire eastern bloc had the same stuff. That's why I feel so bad for Chechnya right now. All they want is their freedom. They were never a part of Russia. The communists came once, and took my aunt for a year to work as a slave in a factory. She got raped countless times. Was nearly starved and frozen, with one blanket. They would have taken my grandmother too, but all the kids got their moms taken came to the house, so she had about 25 kids with no parents, so they left her alone. She took all these kids in for about a month until the other relatives came. This went all the wholetime until the late 80's. My aunt got out of Romania in the 60's, with my grandmothers help. She didn't get married until she was 45, she was so afraid of men. It's just sad. I'm so glad my mom got out of there. I wouldn't exsist if she didn't! I really feel for Croats, Bosnians, and Czechs, and all those poor people. -----signature----- It's been an experience. 8000, and done!
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Sreya Registered: Aug '00	Date Posted: 9/18/02 4:39pm Subject: RE: Mara Jade Hater Club - Date Edited: 9/18/02 4:40pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Sreya
	Yikes, by the time I finished that last post, several more had been added! Cool! I know that no argument can be made, but I am curious what you think of those people who were formerly imperials and then became rebels or part of the republic? Some of these people did some nasty things. They turned their backs on the Empire, and worked very hard to bring it down. They acknowledged they'd been on the wrong side, and worked very hard to make up for the past. There's also a little bit for the 18 year old who signs up for the military "to see the galaxy" and by the end of training, or at the time of Alderaan's destruction, realizes that he's been a bit naive, and joins the Rebel camp. There's also a difference for those who were originally part of the Republic, and were the newt in the boiling water, so to speak... it took them a while to realize what was happening. But when they did realize it, they did something about it -- they rebelled. They fought for what was right. But Mara worked PERSONALLY with Palpatine, saw him face to face, and carried out his bidding as a personal servant and assassin. Yet she NEVER turned her back on him, or even considered disobeying or rebelling. It took her FIVE YEARS after his DEATH to even START thinking that maybe, just maybe, he wasn't so great. And we STILL get baloney about her prestige and power. Ugh. -----signature----- They were in the wrong place at the wrong time... naturally, they became heroes. ~Princess Leia SouloftheJedi.net -- the next best thing to chocolate cake! SouloftheWizard.net -- Better than Bertie Botts Beans! Shout out the Tang Stain! MJHC
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Tiershon_Fett Registered: Oct '00	Date Posted: 9/18/02 4:46pm Subject: RE: Mara Jade Hater Club - Date Edited: 9/18/02 4:49pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Tiershon_Fett
	But Mara worked PERSONALLY with Palpatine, saw him face to face, and carried out his bidding as a personal servant and assassin. Yet she NEVER turned her back on him, or even considered disobeying or rebelling. It took her FIVE YEARS after his DEATH to even START thinking that maybe, just maybe, he wasn't so great. And we STILL get baloney about her prestige and power. Ugh THANK YOU! Your whole post is bang on! She was on Palpy like stink on poodoo, and Tycho never even got to Coruscant. He never met Palpy. That's like being an ensign in the military as opposed to a cabinet member of the CIA, Who is in constant contact with the leaders? Not the same deal at all. Sreya, thanks for being articulate for me, when I am too excited to be. -----signature----- It's been an experience. 8000, and done!
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Jedi_Liz Title: Former CR Lincoln NE, USA Registered: Apr '00	Date Posted: 9/18/02 4:49pm Subject: RE: Mara Jade Hater Club
	just curious, but which book is this in?: And we STILL get baloney about her prestige and power. So, you judge others by their pasts? How about Han Solo? He was a drug smuggler. Yes, he went "clean" and joined the Rebellion, but he was still a smuggler. Do you judge him by his past? I'm just curious. -----signature----- Current Fic: Lightswords of Fury: Special Edition - L/M Romance http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/24270936/ Chapter 19 posted on 7/21/08 Coming SOON: Mara Jade of Chandrila Grove Coming SOON to SAGA Fanfic
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Tiershon_Fett Registered: Oct '00	Date Posted: 9/18/02 4:57pm Subject: RE: Mara Jade Hater Club - Date Edited: 9/18/02 5:03pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Tiershon_Fett
	So, you judge others by their pasts? How about Han Solo? He was a drug smuggler. Yes, he went "clean" and joined the Rebellion, but he was still a smuggler. Do you judge him by his past? He was a drug smuggler because the empire kicked him out for saving a slave from abuse (Chewbacca). Yes, I do judge him, but if wasn't really good at heart, he wouldn't have come back to Yavin. That decision took him about an hour, maybe two. He is a good man. He did what he had to to survive and the day another alternative presented itself, he gave up money and freedom, for strangers. And he did it for Chewie too. when given the opportunity, he always does right. I can't see Mara meeting a world of trouble in the form of an old man and a kid, and sticking around because you know it's right. Imean that is laughable. She would have turned them in in a heart beat to get the cherished pat on the head from Big Daddy. Oh no, she went on for years after Palpay's regime ends feeling murderous hatred for someone she didn't know, who'd never hurt her. She just doesn't seem to have the same generosity of spirit that Han had. Giving up his (promising) career as an Imperial. He did right to walk away from the totalitarian Empire, and he did when the empire was at their strongest, not twenty years after that fact. It's not too brave or committed to go from a lucrative job to another one. She didn't make the moral and virtuous decision that other conscriptees did. They left because it was wrong, not because they were routed by Isard. Mara being compared to Han is a profound insult to Han. Mara doesn't have a fraction of his character. And Han takes it all in with a light joke and a witty comment. Love that. -----signature----- It's been an experience. 8000, and done!
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Jedi_Suzuran Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 9/18/02 5:01pm Subject: RE: Mara Jade Hater Club - Date Edited: 9/18/02 5:25pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Jedi_Suzuran
	Jedi_Liz, I'm not the best person to answer this, but I'll give it a go. I judge people by their pasts, yes. I look at Han and see what he did. He smuggled, true. But I don't condemn him for it. Why? Here we come to why I'm not the best to answer your question. I'm a liberal, and I happen to think that most drugs should be legalized. It ain't the drug dealer's fault if someone OD's. They brought it on themselves, and they're free to do what they want, if they're over age. This is partly why I don't judge him too harshly. Drug smuggling isn't always on par with murder. If you kill someone while smuggling, then yeah, it's a different picture. Han didn't, to my knowledge. Is he an innocent angel? Nope. But he's not a murderer. And that's the lowest you can sink, in my book. Han, while he smuggled, saved an enslaved Wookie and joined a rag tag Rebellion (reluctantly, but he committed to it). His smuggling past is more than balanced with these actions, to me, anyway. That probably didn't make a lot of sense. Edit: On second thought, my analogy is silly, so I'm deleting it. -----signature----- FIGS Suzaé, Handmaiden of the Crest Su is like, the Den Mother of Perv -- Etessie For My Soul http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=9409845&replies=0 COMPLETE 5/26 ...as shadows claim my light.
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Jedi_Liz Title: Former CR Lincoln NE, USA Registered: Apr '00	Date Posted: 9/18/02 5:09pm Subject: RE: Mara Jade Hater Club - Date Edited: 9/18/02 5:24pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Jedi_Liz
	Mara BLAMED him, she doesn't still blame him. She got over that a LONG time ago. Child abusers? NO comment on that.....going to far with that...... Okay, thanks for answering. EDIT: Thanks for clarifying its more about her attitude. To be honest, the only things I have agreed with any of you about is (a) her commitment to the Jedi (if she had been written correctly, she may have become a Jedi sooner and (b) partially about the lecture. -----signature----- Current Fic: Lightswords of Fury: Special Edition - L/M Romance http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/24270936/ Chapter 19 posted on 7/21/08 Coming SOON: Mara Jade of Chandrila Grove Coming SOON to SAGA Fanfic
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