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Topic:
could mara jade have killed luke in a fight in ROTJ?...
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jedi2187leia
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
9/26/07 7:51am
Subject:
RE: could mara jade have killed luke in a fight in ROTJ?...
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Mara would win, without a doubt. She'd have the Tatooine hick skewered on a lightsaber faster than he can whine.
"But I was going to the Toshi station to pick up some power conver-- HUUURKK!"
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Emperor_Time
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
9/26/07 8:15am
Subject:
RE: could mara jade have killed luke in a fight in ROTJ?...
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Hi and I think that a fight between Mara and Luke in ROTJ would have led to a stalemate. 
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rhi-sparks
Title: Former CR - FF-UK: Wales
Registered:
Mar '06
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Date Posted:
9/26/07 8:17am
Subject:
RE: could mara jade have killed luke in a fight in ROTJ?...
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The_Big_Z posted:
Did anyone even read Freak's previous, previous post? ROTJ Mara is stronger than TTT Mara, but ROTJ Luke is weaker than TTT Luke. You put two and two together and bang! Mara could beat Luke. It would be a tough fight, but Mara would prevail.
And Freak, I don't believe I even have a reputation yet. I just registered here... a day ago! So, I can't exactly ruin my reputation, since I don't even have one! See, that works out to my advantage.
Mara would not prevail. If ROTJ Luke is weaker than TTT Luke, (which I think no one is saying he isn't here) ROTJ Luke is still stronger than ROTJ Mara- who was an Emperor's Hand, but indecisive, arrogant and not all that great.
You may want to watch how you talk to and about people Freak, you're not doing yourself any favours.
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
9/26/07 1:13pm
Subject:
RE: could mara jade have killed luke in a fight in ROTJ?...
- Date Edited:
9/26/07 1:15pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Master_Starwalker
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Freakzillawht2 posted:
Master_Starwalker posted:
The_Big_Z posted:
Did anyone even read Freak's previous, previous post? ROTJ Mara is stronger than TTT Mara, but ROTJ Luke is weaker than TTT Luke. You put two and two together and bang! Mara could beat Luke. It would be a tough fight, but Mara would prevail.
So RotJ Mara > RotJ Vader?
 like I said mara is not more powerful that luke but she is more cunning than him. and I say it one more time it's not always the strongest fighter who wins in a fight.
(this thread is called "could mara jade have killed luke in a fight in ROTJ?..." not "is mara jade stronger than luke?") 
Yeah, it is. Luke however isn't the idiot you're making him out to be. He shows the ability to innovate in terms of combat by figuring out that the Rebellion should use harpoons and tow cables to take down the AT-ATs. He also shows the ability to think on his feet in Empire when he sprays Vader with steam from the tube he cut in order to have time to recall his saber.
Rilwen_Shadowflame posted:
Vader was the only Force-sensitive he'd had a serious fight with, and Luke had managed to...what? Lose a hand already?
RotJ Luke > ESB Luke by a significant margin.
Rilwen_Shadowflame posted:
And then, in the final fight, with the Emperor tipping the scales- which yes, Palpatine could do, having the power to strengthen and provoke Luke, and also the inclination to do so- Luke finally gets himself a spine, and a bit more talent. Oh, and an opponent who spent most of the fight trying to talk him around, rather than duelling to kill.
Luke doesn't try for the majority of the fight either considering that most of the fight is basically:
VADER: Turn to the Dark Side
LUKE: I will not fight you father. I feel the good in you. Let go of your hate.
When Luke goes all out, he overwhelms Vader with a frenzy that Vader had never known.
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Freakzillawht2
Registered:
Sep '07
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Date Posted:
9/26/07 3:36pm
Subject:
RE: could mara jade have killed luke in a fight in ROTJ?...
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jedi2187leia posted:
Mara would win, without a doubt. She'd have the Tatooine hick skewered on a lightsaber faster than he can whine.
"But I was going to the Toshi station to pick up some power conver-- HUUURKK!"
 I bet wormie didn't see that one coming 
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CrazyOldHermit
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
9/28/07 7:11pm
Subject:
RE: could mara jade have killed luke in a fight in ROTJ?...
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It was not luke's destiny to defeat his clone, but it was Mara's. She had to complete her master's Last Command, and begin her own journey to becoming a Jedi. This was the beginning of that destiny for her. The Force would not allow it to be any other way.
As far as being a Mara hater, that's simply not the case. On the contrary she is actually one of my favorite characters. I agree that she is no slouch in combat, but I can't agree that she could win versus Luke. The Force would not have allowed it any other way.
I also agree that the clones were weaker representations of their templates. The only clone that has been arguably greater than his template has been Fett.
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GrandWarlord
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
9/28/07 7:55pm
Subject:
RE: could mara jade have killed luke in a fight in ROTJ?...
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I'm curious to know, just how skillful and powerful with the force, Mara Jade was. Everytime I see or hear her name, I automatically think the "Emperor's Hand". It's been awhile since I've read the books (Heir to the Empire Trilogy). But didn't she get some special training from Palpatine? I thought that she did. I don't know who would win the duel, but it would be interesting to see.
But they are married now aren't they? 
I just think that being the "Emperor's Hand" she would be a pretty formible foe. Or was it just a title, and didn't live up to the reputation? Curious indeed...... 
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Freakzillawht2
Registered:
Sep '07
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Date Posted:
10/4/07 7:06am
Subject:
RE: could mara jade have killed luke in a fight in ROTJ?...
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CrazyOldHermit posted:
It was not luke's destiny to defeat his clone, but it was Mara's. She had to complete her master's Last Command, and begin her own journey to becoming a Jedi. This was the beginning of that destiny for her. The Force would not allow it to be any other way.
so here we go again...the will of the force?
CrazyOldHermit posted:
As far as being a Mara hater, that's simply not the case. On the contrary she is actually one of my favorite characters. I agree that she is no slouch in combat, but I can't agree that she could win versus Luke. The Force would not have allowed it any other way.
She wouldn's win If it was after ROTJ.CrazyOldHermit posted:
I also agree that the clones were weaker representations of their templates. The only clone that has been arguably greater than his template has been Fett.
so Jorus C'baoth is greater than Joruus C'baoth?
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Freakzillawht2
Registered:
Sep '07
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Date Posted:
10/4/07 7:15am
Subject:
RE: could mara jade have killed luke in a fight in ROTJ?...
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rhi-sparks posted:
You may want to watch how you talk to and about people Freak, you're not doing yourself any favours.
what are you talking about? 
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NelanisGhost
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
10/4/07 9:24am
Subject:
RE: could mara jade have killed luke in a fight in ROTJ?...
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GrandWarlord posted:
I'm curious to know, just how skillful and powerful with the force, Mara Jade was. Everytime I see or hear her name, I automatically think the "Emperor's Hand". It's been awhile since I've read the books (Heir to the Empire Trilogy). But didn't she get some special training from Palpatine? I thought that she did. I don't know who would win the duel, but it would be interesting to see.
But they are married now aren't they?
I just think that being the "Emperor's Hand" she would be a pretty formible foe. Or was it just a title, and didn't live up to the reputation? Curious indeed......
Yeah, Darth Maul (a real Sith, not a hairspray ninjagrrrrl) was thoroughly trained by Palpatine, in the rule of two way, and a padawan killed him. I also agree that Palpatine helped Luke like he did a lesser skilled Anakin in ROTS.
Mara didn't even have Sith training. She had regular specialized combat training. Like a beret. I agree that she has the unique ability to think on her feet and be completely in the minute. But all the intelligence in the galaxy won't help you if the force using equivalent of a .50 caliber shoots you at point blank. Luke is just more endowed with many of those little midis, that Mara isn't. (Maybe she got more that were ahem, GIVEN to her by Luke. But she didn't have them at that point.) She was too weak to do more than be Jabba's pole dancer. That's all she did on Tatooine. I don't say ROTJ, because Mara wasn't in it and didn't exist then in reality.
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Darth_Sabith
Registered:
Oct '06
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Date Posted:
10/4/07 12:41pm
Subject:
RE: could mara jade have killed luke in a fight in ROTJ?...
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You know I don't think it was even Jabba who decieded Mara stayed behind and if she was such an skilled assassin wouldn't she have found some way onto that ship with out Jabba's knowleadge. I mean if she really wanted to complete her mission she wouldn't have let an over grown slug stand in her way. She should have just killed him while he was fighting the rancor it's not like the great Jabba would risk going against the empire.
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CrazyOldHermit
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
10/4/07 6:05pm
Subject:
RE: could mara jade have killed luke in a fight in ROTJ?...
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Freakzillawht2 posted:
CrazyOldHermit posted:
It was not luke's destiny to defeat his clone, but it was Mara's. She had to complete her master's Last Command, and begin her own journey to becoming a Jedi. This was the beginning of that destiny for her. The Force would not allow it to be any other way.
so here we go again...the will of the force?
CrazyOldHermit posted:
As far as being a Mara hater, that's simply not the case. On the contrary she is actually one of my favorite characters. I agree that she is no slouch in combat, but I can't agree that she could win versus Luke. The Force would not have allowed it any other way.
She wouldn's win If it was after ROTJ.CrazyOldHermit posted:
I also agree that the clones were weaker representations of their templates. The only clone that has been arguably greater than his template has been Fett.
so Jorus C'baoth is greater than Joruus C'baoth?
The only time in Mara's life that she could have killed Luke was before his trip to Dagobah. Yoda's training and his battle with Vader on Cloud City gave Luke a great deal of knowledge. By ROTJ his power had grown exponentially.
The only person strong enough to defeat Vader was Luke. Mara's hand-to-hand combat skilla would have done her no good against Vader, and her Force skills were rudimentary at best. Vader would have destroyed her.
The roles of Vader and Luke were reversed in ESB and ROTJ. In ESB, Vader held back his true power to try to bring Luke over to the Dark Side. In ROTJ, Luke held back to try and buy time for Han and Leia on Endor and to try and redeem his father. When he fought at full strength Vader could not stop him.
Luke> Vader> Mara
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DarthSticky
Registered:
Feb '02
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Date Posted:
10/5/07 5:32am
Subject:
RE: could mara jade have killed luke in a fight in ROTJ?...
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Any claim that Mara could best ROTJ-era Luke at hand-to-hand combat is also ignoring the fact that Luke defeated Guri, a specially designed assasin android who excelled at hand-to-hand, in SOTE...
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Darth_Sabith
Registered:
Oct '06
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Date Posted:
10/5/07 6:15am
Subject:
RE: could mara jade have killed luke in a fight in ROTJ?...
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I agree Mara never had a chance hand to hand against Luke but if she had acted when he was vunible then maybe.
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Freakzillawht2
Registered:
Sep '07
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Date Posted:
10/5/07 9:24am
Subject:
RE: could mara jade have killed luke in a fight in ROTJ?...
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DarthSticky posted:
Any claim that Mara could best ROTJ-era Luke at hand-to-hand combat is also ignoring the fact that Luke defeated Guri, a specially designed assasin android who excelled at hand-to-hand, in SOTE...
I forgot about that. but guri wasn't force sensitive like mara. but good point Darth Sticky...
Darth_Sabith posted:
I agree Mara never had a chance hand to hand against Luke but if she had acted when he was vurnible then maybe.
just because luke got lucky in his fight with guri taht doesn't mean that he would beat mara. anyway she could use her surroundings to her advantage, or use another trick up her sleave(force choke) 
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