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Author	Topic: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
ChildOfWinds Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 4/2 2:19pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Horsey, if you're paying attention, dp's colors look good on you! I've been watching your mystery game. Can't wait to find out what happened to Jello! I-poodoo : Gee, I wonder what Palps would think of his empire being ruled by the descendant of a rebel leader and lowly smuggler. touche'! He acted as a Jedi there, and yes I know the irony of that statement, and he acted as an Emperor should: he rightly placed his duty to his gov't. above his personal attachment to his daughter. I don't know that I would agree that Roan acted like a Jedi there, but I will concede that he probably did what needed to be done as Emperor. It was probably difficult for him to put his responsibility as Emperor over his daughter. And we never saw the private moment between him and Sia as father and daughter after she was brought back to him by Cade. So it's not really very fair to judge him as a father when he was cornered into the decision to leave Sia be. That's a good point. I need one of those Roan Fel III crazed fans from the IKFC to help me out here. It just feels too weird for me to defend any Emperor. LOL! It's a good thing Master Starwalker isn't here: He really dislikes the Empire! Hmmm... I do wonder what happene to Master Star again. He's been gone for a long time. I like it, cuz it brings the good guys GA or Jedi back to their roots in the EU as the underdogs. The Jedi ALWAYS seem to be the underdogs! I think Ostrander made the second Empire better than the first to contrast Krayt and Palps, and Palps and Roan. Also to give the Empire obsessed fans out there someone to root for that aren't authoriatrian psychopaths. Maybe.... I will say that Roan was pretty cold when he killed all of those people. True, they weren't loyal, but that took a TOUGH cookie to do!
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s65horsey Title: EUC Manager SWC Lil' Sis Registered: Jun '06	Date Posted: 4/2 2:25pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	ChildOfWinds posted: Horsey, if you're paying attention, dp's colors look good on you! I've been watching your mystery game. Can't wait to find out what happened to Jello! Thanks!!!! -----signature----- Sinre's Sey
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RK_Striker_JK_5 Registered: Jul '03	Date Posted: 4/2 4:14pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0 - Date Edited: 4/2 4:29pm (1 edits total) Edited By: RK_Striker_JK_5
	Jedi_Ben: Then you must love my Drop Bears! Yes, your Drop Bears were very welcome. Just about finished with 'Day of the Vipers'. "I'm fine... how are you?" I-poodoo: Well I assume it depends on the end of the game. I'll speculate that it will take a Kotor style track in which you can choose for the unnamed Apprentice to take the darkside path and fulfill Vader's missions all the way to the attempt to kill Palps but fails to do so resulting in his death or a lightside path and oppose Vader-maybe even Palps-and dies during the confrontation somehow or flees to hide in maybe the Unknown Regions or Wild Space or settles down somewhere and puts that force stuff behind him like Traviss' character: Bardan Jusik. Who can say for sure what happens to him until they play the game. Just seems weird, this guy to be so powerful and coming outta nowhere in the 'Dark Times' period. Shrug Ah, well. Already have it on order. Thanx BTW No problem. Don't knock He-Man when I was six that cartoon was the greatest, that was until Thundercats, then GI Joe, and finally Transformers and Robotech...They just don't make intelligent action/adventure cartoons like those anymore. When they do like with Exo-Squad they show it at 5:30 on Sat. mornings when no one is up to watch them anyway. sad Thank god that's not so with the Japanese cartoons. Hey, I like He-Man. Heck, I got She-Ra seasons one and two on DVD. But I just don't think it was as good as Exo-Squad. That was an intelligent, well-written show. I would think with the emerging popularity of Anime shows on Cartoon network's Toonami and Adult Swim formats that'd teach the American animation houses that there's indeed a large audience for more maturer cartoons than the slapstick comedy for younger viewers that dominates the American industry. Sadly they've only marginally got that message. Sad, but true. Sigh Live-action gets it, but why not cartoons? I want more JLU! The type that would ally with the Sith would be the type that was too arrogant to think they'd be played like everyone who ever allied with Sith. Yeah, but still... one datapad, and precedent after precedent... Veed: "Don't you know who I am? I am Veed, Grand Admiral, greater than Thrawn or Ackbar or Palleon or Daala. If those Sith try anything My fleet will crush them." "Who the HELL do you THINK I am? I'm the goddamn Morlish Veed!" Calixte and Veed: "Arrogance and Stupidity all in the same package. How efficient of them." Quote for truth, there. Nobody145: Was Exo-Squad ever finished? I remember watching it during the same block of cartoons as Beast Wars, but I lost interest when it looked like it ended on a minor cliffhanger (or at least on a bad end for on character). The war with the Neo-Sapiens was concluded, but then aliens came in. Dang it... ChildOfWinds: Thanks. Wanna read his first planning session? Nice job, Striker! Thanks. Yes, that doesn't seem very smart. "Hmm, the Sith have betrayed every person they've worked with in history and have fought amongst themselves since time immemorial... Yeah, this is a good idea!" Headdesk I'm not a big Roan fan, although he probably is the descendant of Jaina and Jag. I wonder what poor Han and Leia would think of their descendants ruling the Empire? Right now doing mach five in their graves, metaphorically speaking. Roan doesn't exactly seem like a loving father, does he? He'd rather sacrifice her to save his own skin. Politics... yeesh. Yeah, she doesn't seem to understand that when you give birth to kids, you bear some responsibility for raising them as well. Do you know more about Morrigan? About what other little secret she has? Yeah! I hate that about parents. The child is your responsibility! And... no, I don't. I gloss over the Legacy talk in the thread. Please don't tell me! Any NJO Jedi should have been there instead of K'Kruhk. His existence really bugs me. Even Ben or Allana should be alive at this time. Yeah. I'll elaborate more down below. I was surprised that I liked her too. Tell me about it! Daang... Yes, it's a good thing to take responsibility for one's mistakes. Especially one... that big. So am I. I don't really like the idea that the Empire is in charge. I don't want the Empire to be the main government. I don't really even like the idea that they're "sort of good". As far as I'm concerned, the Empire in SW should be evil. Yeah. A totalitarian dictatorship run by one man, usually a Sith... Bad news, there. Anyway... Some people say that if you have a recent character-Lowie, Ben, Allana-in Legacy, it kills the suspense. I got to thinking... if that did happen, it'd have the inverse effect. You could take the character, put him/her in peril and just... do some creative writing, get them out of it. Really go places with them! It wouldn't be, "Oh, damn. One more character dead." It'd be, "Oh, wow. How they gonna get out of this one!" -----signature----- E-married to the wonderful DarthIshtar. Now also her Padawan. Member of the Y.J.K. Revolution Staring into the Darkness http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/27537567/p1/?23
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Rouge77 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 4/2 4:16pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	I-poodoo posted: Gee, I wonder what Palps would think of his empire being ruled by the descendant of a rebel leader and lowly smuggler. That depends. If the foul Fel blood hasn't totally diluted the Skywalker Force powers, then every Fel Emperor is potentially a strong darksider. One wouldn't need more than one of them going Sith and Palpatine would get pretty much what he wanted in 19 BBY. Another Sith Empire with Darth Vader's descendant as a ruler. So, Palpatine might not be all that unhappy with the Fel Emperors. Another thing is whether the Fels identify themselves in anyway as descendants of the aforementioned rebel leader and lowly smuggler. Leia and Han's descendants have become what Palpatine was, minus the Dark Side, these descendants might not even consider themselves their descendants in any meaningful way, and if the Fel ruler would fall to the Dark Side and become a Sith... The Fels are like Palpatine's revenge to the Solos. I-poodoo posted: I like it, cuz it brings the good guys GA or Jedi back to their roots in the EU as the underdogs. I think Ostrander made the second Empire better than the first to contrast Krayt and Palps, and Palps and Roan. Also to give the Empire obsessed fans out there someone to root for that aren't authoriatrian psychopaths. I'm not ready to say that Roan Fel isn't an authoritarian psychopath. He's certainly an authoritarian. I don't really see any difference between Roan Fel and Darth Krayt beyond the fact that the former hates Sith and the latter is a Sith. There is no reason to believe that a galaxy ruled by Roan Fel would be any better to a galaxy ruled by Darth Krayt. Roan Fel didn't want the Jedi massacred, but he let his forces kill Jedi for three years. And his opposition to attacking the Jedi on Ossus probably was motivated by his need for allies against the Sith. I don't like this endless destruction of GA and massacring of the Jedi so that they can once again be the underdogs. I much more prefer them as powerful and flourishing. -----signature----- Recipient of the Confederation Ewok with "Rebel Yub"® Action!! Kill Ben Skywalker
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I-poodoo Registered: May '01	Date Posted: 4/2 7:31pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	JB Or, at least, don't appear to be... Touche. Child LOL! It's a good thing Master Starwalker isn't here: He really dislikes the Empire! I'm by no means a fan of the Empire first or second incarnation, either. If you're in the mood to argue over the Empire's merits challenge Jello he'll give anyone a mighty debate on the subject. The Jedi ALWAYS seem to be the underdogs! It's when they're at their best in a storytelling sense IMO. You can say they've had the whole galaxy set against them enough already, but they were always best to be from a storytelling vantage point the lone heroes against the evil Empire. It's when you have them in the other way around that they start to flounder. Maybe.... I will say that Roan was pretty cold when he killed all of those people. True, they weren't loyal, but that took a TOUGH cookie to do! By no means am I backing Roan Fel now. It's just as it stands now he seems better than Palps, but as the incident you've raised exemplifies there is some reason to call him a villian. I'm taking a wait and see attitude towards him. Striker But I just don't think it was as good as Exo-Squad. That was an intelligent, well-written show. Preach it, brother, preach it! Sad, but true. Sigh Live-action gets it, but why not cartoons? I want more JLU! I think that's the reason so many anime shows are becoming popular here in the US right now. They're catering to an audience the American animation houses generally ignore. And only recently has live-action started to get it right IMO. The real reason for the way things are is there's a prejudice in the mainstream adult demographic in America that just blithely assumes all cartoons are automatically targeted at kids under 12, so they get extremely overprotective when there's a "serious" (vulgar comedies like Family Guy's okay becuz it aint being "serious"-nor very intelligent IMO) cartoon with blood and violence, and I'm not talking about something that's blatantly bloody or violent or mature in content, but something like JLU. Most grownups would watch JLU and marvel that it was designed for kids They just don't get it Cartoons don't have to be just for children. And it's really the same struggle for Video Games too. "Hmm, the Sith have betrayed every person they've worked with in history and have fought amongst themselves since time immemorial... Yeah, this is a good idea!" Yeah, but still... one datapad, and precedent after precedent... Again you haveta understood the type that would ally with the Sith. Those precedents are not going to be them. Show any gang banger a list of other Gang bangers that died or spending the rest of their lives in prison and they'll say "that won't be me 'cuz I'm bigger, badder, and meaner than anyone who ever lived." Arrogance and bravado blinds many. Then you add ambition or greed to the mix and you get Gunray, Veed, and Calixte. IMO that's why Jacen gets betrayed so often in LOTF, he keeps surrounding himself with the wrong type of minions. He needs more minions like the jerk that attacked the Jedi school at Ossus, and shot Kam and Tionne. Instead he relies on basically decent folk that don't have the ambition, greed, or arrogance to go to the extremes he asks them to go to. The war with the Neo-Sapiens was concluded, but then aliens came in. Dang it... Kinda reminds me of SW. They just got the War with Empire concluded, but then the extra-galactic aliens came in. Dang it... Yeah. A totalitarian dictatorship run by one man, usually a Sith... That's what I like about it. What I find interesting about Roan Fel III in Legacy is that it's asking the question was it just the Darkside of the Force that made Palpatine so bad, or could it be the position as Emperor too? Is that kind of a position of power capable of corrupting a man that isn't in it for the position of power itself? R77 That depends. If the foul Fel blood hasn't totally diluted the Skywalker Force powers, then every Fel Emperor is potentially a strong darksider. One wouldn't need more than one of them going Sith and Palpatine would get pretty much what he wanted in 19 BBY. Another Sith Empire with Darth Vader's descendant as a ruler. So, Palpatine might not be all that unhappy with the Fel Emperors. That's supposing that force powers are indeed inherited genetically. That's supposing alignment [light or dark] is inherited too. Palps would rather have had himself immortal and Emperor of the universe than have Anakin or his descendants in his place I'm sure, but yeah Anakin or Luke or anyone with that much potential as a successor was okay to him as a consolation prize. Another thing is whether the Fels identify themselves in anyway as descendants of the aforementioned rebel leader and lowly smuggler. Leia and Han's descendants have become what Palpatine was, minus the Dark Side, these descendants might not even consider themselves their descendants in any meaningful way, and if the Fel ruler would fall to the Dark Side and become a Sith... The Fels are like Palpatine's revenge to the Solos. You got me there, Rouge. We don't even know if the Fel dynasty was from Jag and Jaina because they don't play up whatever Solo heritage the may or may not have. The only real link between the two families other than the on and off romance of Jag and Jaina is that some have seen a resemblance to Han in Roan's face. I'm not sure I see that. There is no reason to believe that a galaxy ruled by Roan Fel would be any better to a galaxy ruled by Darth Krayt. Roan Fel didn't want the Jedi massacred, but he let his forces kill Jedi for three years. And his opposition to attacking the Jedi on Ossus probably was motivated by his need for allies against the Sith. Again the jury is still out on the old lantern-jawed Emperor as far as I'm concerned. -----signature----- "It is the actions of a man that defines him not his intentions."-yours truly "Though battles have been lost, the Alliance still lives. We have not surrendered. We do not concede the stars. We will win back our birthright. Freedom." -Jaius Yorub
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Rouge77 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 4/3 12:17pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0 - Date Edited: 4/3 12:18pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Rouge77
	I-poodoo posted: That's supposing that force powers are indeed inherited genetically. The Skywalker lineage seems to be proof of that, but I would prefer that the Force powers would at least diminish in future generations. I-poodoo posted: You got me there, Rouge. We don't even know if the Fel dynasty was from Jag and Jaina because they don't play up whatever Solo heritage the may or may not have. The only real link between the two families other than the on and off romance of Jag and Jaina is that some have seen a resemblance to Han in Roan's face. I'm not sure I see that. There are one or two pictures where there seems to be a resemblance, but it's really Jagged Fel that Roan Fel resembles very much. There's one picture of Jagged Fel from some NJO cover - Ylesia? - and Roan Fel is really just an older version of that Jagged. I'm confident that the Fels are descendants of Jaina&Jagged, but I guess that they identify themselves totally with the Fels. Which explains to me why they are Imperials; how the Solo descendants can be leading an Empire: They don't see themselves as such in the first place. -----signature----- Recipient of the Confederation Ewok with "Rebel Yub"® Action!! Kill Ben Skywalker
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ChildOfWinds Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 4/3 1:22pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	RK_Striker_JK_5 "Hmm, the Sith have betrayed every person they've worked with in history and have fought amongst themselves since time immemorial... Yeah, this is a good idea!" Headdesk LOL! Yeah, that's pretty much my reaction too! And... no, I don't. I gloss over the Legacy talk in the thread. Please don't tell me! Nope! I certainly won't do it on purpose. I just hope one of us doesn't inadvertantly say something between now and when you read the next compiled issue. Yes, it's a good thing to take responsibility for one's mistakes. Especially one... that big. And yes, it was a big one! Some people say that if you have a recent character-Lowie, Ben, Allana-in Legacy, it kills the suspense. I think that's just those people who like to think that anyone can be killed off at any time talking. For myself, I always liked that Bantam bubble. It never made the books any less exciting. In fact, it was better, as I didn't always have my heart in my mouth when I went to read a new novel, wondering whether or not everyone was going to survive. It wouldn't be, "Oh, damn. One more character dead." It'd be, "Oh, wow. How they gonna get out of this one!" Exactly! Like it was in the good old Bantam days! Rouge77 That depends. If the foul Fel blood hasn't totally diluted the Skywalker Force powers, then every Fel Emperor is potentially a strong darksider. One wouldn't need more than one of them going Sith and Palpatine would get pretty much what he wanted in 19 BBY. Another Sith Empire with Darth Vader's descendant as a ruler. So, Palpatine might not be all that unhappy with the Fel Emperors. That's an EXCELLENT point, R 77! In that case, he just needed to wait a few extra generations to get exactly what he wanted. I'm not ready to say that Roan Fel isn't an authoritarian psychopath. He's certainly an authoritarian. I don't really see any difference between Roan Fel and Darth Krayt beyond the fact that the former hates Sith and the latter is a Sith. The jury is out for me to with Roan Fel. As I said, coldly killing those thousand people in that ship was not exactly a Lightside act. I don't see Luke or Leia doing something like that. the Jedi on Ossus probably was motivated by his need for allies against the Sith. I don't like this endless destruction of GA and massacring of the Jedi so that they can once again be the underdogs. I much more prefer them as powerful and flourishing. So do I. I wrote a post in Lit today that was more specific to Luke, but it's kind of the same idea. I don't like the way the Jedi Order has been written since Del Rey got the contract. It's not at all the progression I was expecting from Votf. In fact, the Jedi have taken a very long slide backwards in the books, and I think it's time to reverse that trend. If any of you agree, please post about the Jedi in the Lit LOS thread. I-poodoo I'm by no means a fan of the Empire first or second incarnation, either. If you're in the mood to argue over the Empire's merits challenge Jello he'll give anyone a mighty debate on the subject. I'm sure he will! But I will always think of the Empire as one of the great enemies of SW. The Jedi ALWAYS seem to be the underdogs! It's when they're at their best in a storytelling sense IMO. You can say they've had the whole galaxy set against them enough already, but they were always best to be from a storytelling vantage point the lone heroes against the evil Empire. But see, I'm ready for a Jedi Order that is respected and competent in the galaxy. I'd like to see stories of Jedi doing what Jedi do when the galaxy isn't involved in a galactic war. By no means am I backing Roan Fel now. It's just as it stands now he seems better than Palps, but as the incident you've raised exemplifies there is some reason to call him a villian. I'm taking a wait and see attitude towards him. YEs, so am I. was it just the Darkside of the Force that made Palpatine so bad, or could it be the position as Emperor too? Hmmm...interesting question. As you know, with some people, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Is that kind of a position of power capable of corrupting a man that isn't in it for the position of power itself? I think if a person TRULY isn't in it for power, but to make the world/galaxy a better place for the most people, then I don't think that person would necessarily be corrupted. All of the Jedi, for example, wield enormous power, but MOST of them aren't corrupted by it. But I don't think Roan is one of the people who doesn't like the power. I think he does. That's supposing that force powers are indeed inherited genetically. That's supposing alignment [light or dark] is inherited too. I think it's a given that Force sensitivity IS inherited in that GFFA. That's the whole reason for the midichlorians and finding people with a lot of them. Not only did the skywalkers and Solos have Force sensitive children, but so did Saba; so did the Horns; so did Tenel Ka and her mother. Yes, I think it is USUALLY inherited. Callista said that in Children of the Jedi too. But sometimes it does appear spontaneously. But I don't think the disposition toward dark or light is inheried. I think that's an individual choice by each jedi. The Fels are like Palpatine's revenge to the Solos. Yeah, as I said, Legacy is Luke and Leia's worst nightmare brought to life. Rouge77 There are one or two pictures where there seems to be a resemblance, but it's really Jagged Fel that Roan Fel resembles very much. I think he resembles Han a LOT.
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 4/3 3:01pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	RK, Yes, your Drop Bears were very welcome. * Read Nextwave, you won't regret it. Just about finished with 'Day of the Vipers'. "I'm fine... how are you?" * Heheh, you found it, so what do make of the book? Back to comics: I caved in and picked up Secret Invasion and some relevant back issues and it has to be said it does form a neat whole with all the pieces in play. As to the first issue: Yu should always be using an inker if this is the result. Art was far clearer than his NA work. As for the story, I have the feeling Bendis may well be able to back up all his claims and he certainly needs to! This story has been some 5 years in the making, so he has to deliver but given the storm of development in the first issue, it's encouragig. JB -----signature----- "There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail - should we fall - we will know that we have lived." Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
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Ashandarei Registered: Oct '04	Date Posted: 4/3 4:17pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0 - Date Edited: 4/3 4:20pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Ashandarei
	Discussion with Charlemagne about K'Kruhk, which we were told shouldn't be in the Lit thread. Sorry to interrupt, but I'm finding it interesting, so I wanted to continue. Charlemagne19 "I'll be honest, that would implie they're characters. Lowbacca doesn't have any knowledge or Wisdom because he's a children's book character whose showed up in cameos ever since." He shows up more often than K'Kruhk, certainly. He's also only a Knight at this point, yet has been described by Luke as being the one who he "never doubted", and is simultaneously open to the possibility of Jacen's redemption and willing to end Jacen's threat if that proves impossible. "Everyone else has proven to be nothing more than walk on characters that I don't really consider worthy of Luke's doctrine because they just exist for Luke to go say "Hi Tionne." "Hi Luke." Walk off." Again, this is more than K'Kruhk gets. And what do you expect, when the story revolves tightly around the actions of the Solo/Skywalker family? "Cilghal also tortured someone for information, that automatically invalidates her as a Jedi." Luke stood over her shoulder and told her to do it. So Luke's also invalidated as a Jedi, then. "As for Saba, I mentioned her so you don't get to." Er, what? How does that work? You said K'Kruhk was the best choice, when he's clearly not. Saba is a perfectly viable alternative. You also mentioned Kyle and Corran, who I personally feel are less suited to the job than Saba so I didn't mention them; however, this means that K'Kruhk is not the best choice, since even you admit there are others. "1. Being one of the few Jedi to care about the Clones and their rights as sapient beings." Well that statement kind of blows your whole "the prequel Order is better" argument right out of the water, since "one of the few Jedi" means that in an era with 10000 Jedi, most of them were bad people. Anyway, all of the Jedi I mentioned were staunch supporters of not genociding the Vong, have stayed far away from the Dark side despite facing situations that many others have fallen because of, and have been in general supporters of Luke and his positions, so I don't see why the fact that they never got to weigh in on clone rights means they're not as wise. "2. Realizing the Clone Wars is an evil war and wanting no part of it." He didn't realize they were evil; he realized that War is Hell and wanted no part of it. This makes him a pacifist, which is a good trait in a Jedi; but then he was taken in by Sora Bulq, which makes him perhaps not so wise. "3. Being one of the few Jedi NOT taken by surprise during Order 66." Obi-wan was taken by surprise during Order 66. K'Kruhk happened to be standing right next to a clone as they were getting the command and had the chance to react; most Jedi did not. "4. Determining post Palpatine that the best duty he could do was raise his Young Padawan charges as his own children." And consequently focusing on them to the exclusion of all else for at least forty years. He hasn't rejoined the Order, why? If he's truly as wise as you think, he could help them a huge amount. "5. Recognizing Cade Skywalker doesn't need enabling, he needs to be told he's a kriff-up and to get over himself." Again, a specific situation that the Jedi of Luke's time simply have not run into on screen. Although I will say that part of the reason I don't think Kyle is a good choice is because of his handling of Rosh Penin as an apprentice, which seemed to be simply neglect on his part. You're a fan of the character, I can see that and it's fine. However, to say that there is NO character who would be better suited for the role in Legacy is reaching, because even you admit there's a few. It's not K'Kruhk himself I mind so much, it's the fact that it feels like many other more likely characters were passed over so that Dark Horse could bring back one of their own. -----signature----- What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger.
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RK_Striker_JK_5 Registered: Jul '03	Date Posted: 4/3 4:41pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Rouge77 I'm not ready to say that Roan Fel isn't an authoritarian psychopath. He's certainly an authoritarian. I don't really see any difference between Roan Fel and Darth Krayt beyond the fact that the former hates Sith and the latter is a Sith. All power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Roan's already proven to be corrupted. I-poodoo But I just don't think it was as good as Exo-Squad. That was an intelligent, well-written show. Preach it, brother, preach it! lol, I will. I want an Exo-Squad boxed set! I want one of the best animated series to get its due! I want Phaeton! I want Marsalis and Nara Burns! I want Able Squad! I think that's the reason so many anime shows are becoming popular here in the US right now. They're catering to an audience the American animation houses generally ignore. And only recently has live-action started to get it right IMO. Gotta agree. Look at Naruto's dub against Sailor Moon, for example. Naruto's been sparingly edited and the storyline's mostly intact. Sailor Moon... Shudder Moonies like me are still waiting for a good dub of that show. Sigh (vulgar comedies like Family Guy's okay becuz it aint being "serious"-nor very intelligent IMO) I loathe Family Guy in ways that are NJO-esque... cartoon with blood and violence, and I'm not talking about something that's blatantly bloody or violent or mature in content, but something like JLU. Mature for me means not talking down to the audience and not 'Oh, we can see their parachutes!' Again you haveta understood the type that would ally with the Sith. Those precedents are not going to be them. Show any gang banger a list of other Gang bangers that died or spending the rest of their lives in prison and they'll say "that won't be me 'cuz I'm bigger, badder, and meaner than anyone who ever lived." rolling_eyes Arrogance and bravado blinds many. Then you add ambition or greed to the mix and you get Gunray, Veed, and Calixte. I know, I know. Pride goeth before the fall. Lucifer and the Tree of Knowledge. Temptation can be so... blinding. I guess I expect a bit more from the imperial scum. IMO that's why Jacen gets betrayed so often in LOTF, he keeps surrounding himself with the wrong type of minions. He needs more minions like the jerk that attacked the Jedi school at Ossus, and shot Kam and Tionne. Instead he relies on basically decent folk that don't have the ambition, greed, or arrogance to go to the extremes he asks them to go to. JINO gets betrayed because he's an idiot. Oh, wait... you're right. Ah, how I'd like to declare everything since the end of the YJK infinities! YJK-real Jacen, where are you? Kinda reminds me of SW. They just got the War with Empire concluded, but then the extra-galactic aliens came in. Dang it... Yeah... except Exo-Squad didn't suck. And I trust the Exo-Fleet a lot more than the NRDF to be blunt. That's what I like about it. What I find interesting about Roan Fel III in Legacy is that it's asking the question was it just the Darkside of the Force that made Palpatine so bad, or could it be the position as Emperor too? Is that kind of a position of power capable of corrupting a man that isn't in it for the position of power itself? Well Palps was corrupt before even becoming a senator. And Roan's pretty... dark gray from what I've read. You got me there, Rouge. We don't even know if the Fel dynasty was from Jag and Jaina because they don't play up whatever Solo heritage the may or may not have. I pray that it's not. ChildOfWinds: Nope! I certainly won't do it on purpose. I just hope one of us doesn't inadvertantly say something between now and when you read the next compiled issue. lol, thanks. I'll be cool. And like I said, I gloss over the Legacy talk. So I should be able to avoid spoilers for the unread stuff. And yes, it was a big one! I know what Hosk's fate is... but I still like that Cade made the effort. I think that's just those people who like to think that anyone can be killed off at any time talking. For myself, I always liked that Bantam bubble. It never made the books any less exciting. In fact, it was better, as I didn't always have my heart in my mouth when I went to read a new novel, wondering whether or not everyone was going to survive. Yeah... the bursting of the bubble was stupid. Exactly! Like it was in the good old Bantam days! Oh, but didn't you know? Random character deaths and Order-66 slaughters are the way to go! [/sarcasm] Jedi_Ben * Read Nextwave, you won't regret it lol, maybe. Is that Marvel? DC? Independent? * Heheh, you found it, so what do make of the book? Umm... sad. Everyone could see it comng, but could do nothing. Especially with Gar... or not Gar. Sigh The end, looping back to the beginning with the Scrolls and Mask being burnt. And Necheyav? Jameson? Dang... I wonder what role Mace will play in the next book. -----signature----- E-married to the wonderful DarthIshtar. Now also her Padawan. Member of the Y.J.K. Revolution Staring into the Darkness http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/27537567/p1/?23
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 4/3 4:58pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Well that statement kind of blows your whole "the prequel Order is better" argument right out of the water, since "one of the few Jedi" means that in an era with 10000 Jedi, most of them were bad people. One can be Good without going above and beyond the Call of One's Duty as a Jedi. Like killing Darth Vader is perfectly Good. It's even BETTER to redeem him, which is why Krunchy and Luke go beyond the call of regular Jedi. Anyway, all of the Jedi I mentioned were staunch supporters of not genociding the Vong, have stayed far away from the Dark side despite facing situations that many others have fallen because of, and have been in general supporters of Luke and his positions, so I don't see why the fact that they never got to weigh in on clone rights means they're not as wise. I don't see any of this to be honest. Vergere stopped the Vong genocide. Luke voted against it but that was it. He didn't realize they were evil; he realized that War is Hell and wanted no part of it. This makes him a pacifist, which is a good trait in a Jedi; but then he was taken in by Sora Bulq, which makes him perhaps not so wise. No, he wasn't taken in by Sora Bolq. He eventually rejoined the Jedi though, which may have been a mistake. And consequently focusing on them to the exclusion of all else for at least forty years. He hasn't rejoined the Order, why? If he's truly as wise as you think, he could help them a huge amount. Who knows, but I think that at least one documents says he eventually heads to a secret Temple and doesn't emerge til the NJO. I actually think he's awake during the LOTF series, we just haven't seen him on-camera. Again, a specific situation that the Jedi of Luke's time simply have not run into on screen. Although I will say that part of the reason I don't think Kyle is a good choice is because of his handling of Rosh Penin as an apprentice, which seemed to be simply neglect on his part. Rosh Penin and Kyle in a nutshell: I agree with Kyle here. Kill Rosh. Warning: Foul Language http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6JFXd6qvII http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UuZPw0zsQI&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ8q0KB9enc&feature=related -----signature----- Check out Halt Evil Doer!: The RPG setting for Super Heroes! Halt Evil Doer PDF: http://tinyurl.com/555axt
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Rouge77 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 4/3 6:23pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0 - Date Edited: 4/3 6:25pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Rouge77
	Charlemagne19 posted: Who knows, but I think that at least one documents says he eventually heads to a secret Temple and doesn't emerge til the NJO. I actually think he's awake during the LOTF series, we just haven't seen him on-camera. That's the temple from Legacy #25 almost certainly. He might even get stranded on that planet they are in the Dark Times arc, if the temple is really in the bottom of a body of water. Although that seems unlikely. Could it be that the temple is one of those Covenant storage places that are mentioned in the KOTOR #27 pre-view and that he hears about it from Celeste Morne? (Perhaps getting in that same stasis chamber in which she has slept the past 4000 years?) I think it's possible he is member of NJO during LotF, but just isn't seen. After all, the Iron Knights are there, their leader, the Sunesi(?) OJO Jedi Master whatever-his-name-was, was there for about decade and a half, and was namer named. I think another OJO Jedi can be explained away too, even if does seem lame that he doesn't get named in LotF. But it would just spoil the current Dark Times arc. -----signature----- Recipient of the Confederation Ewok with "Rebel Yub"® Action!! Kill Ben Skywalker
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Lord_Riven Registered: Nov '01	Date Posted: 4/4 1:27am Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Ashandarei posted: It's not K'Kruhk himself I mind so much, it's the fact that it feels like many other more likely characters were passed over so that Dark Horse could bring back one of their own. I totally agree, there are so many post-ROTJ Jedi that could have been used in that role. I blame LFL for not making DH and DR work together. When both come up with a series called Legacy at the same time it becomes obvious that communication was lacking. It's just poor planning. And I hate the hat with vitriol. It's nothing special. Seen hats like those many times in anime, and Asian movies/TV. -----signature----- Legacy AU fic: Family Ties. Follow the link in the next line. http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3751906/1/Star_Wars_Legacy_Family_Ties Casiah - Cade Skywalker x Marasiah Fel 'shipper (#1) Canderous >>> Boba Fett
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 4/4 1:20pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	RK, lol, maybe. Is that Marvel? DC? Independent? * Marvel: http://www.amazon.com/Nextwave-Agents-H-T-E-This/dp/0785119094/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1207340202&sr=8-1 Umm... sad. Everyone could see it comng, but could do nothing. Especially with Gar... or not Gar. Sigh The end, looping back to the beginning with the Scrolls and Mask being burnt. And Necheyav? Jameson? Dang... * Nechayev is a surprise here, but what I like most is that sense of sadness you've identified. It was a slow descent to the occupation proper, but aided the entire time by arrogant Bajorans. I thought it really drew on the various stories of both worlds and linked the pieces together very well. At the same time there wasn't the depressing hopelessness that has become standard in later SW EU. JB I wonder what role Mace will play in the next book. -----signature----- "There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail - should we fall - we will know that we have lived." Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
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Ashandarei Registered: Oct '04	Date Posted: 4/4 1:52pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Charlemagne19 "One can be Good without going above and beyond the Call of One's Duty as a Jedi. Like killing Darth Vader is perfectly Good. It's even BETTER to redeem him, which is why Krunchy and Luke go beyond the call of regular Jedi." Why does K'Kruhk go "beyond the call", though? He never really does anything about the clones besides be unhappy about their fate, which many of the Jedi were. "I don't see any of this to be honest. Vergere stopped the Vong genocide. Luke voted against it but that was it." I could swear there was a section in Destiny's Way where the Jedi heard about Alpha Red an unilaterally declared it an abomination. However, I don't have the book to hand, so until I can find proof I'll concede that. "No, he wasn't taken in by Sora Bolq. He eventually rejoined the Jedi though, which may have been a mistake." Er, how was he not taken in by Sora Bulq? He was manipulated into attending a conference by Sora Bulq with no suspicions, at which he was nearly killed by Asajj Ventress. It doesn't make him stupid as other Jedi were also fooled, but it doesn't make him look exceptionally wise. And again, he didn't realize that the Clone Wars were a farce or could only end evilly, he simply didn't have the stomach for war. Which, as I said, can be a good trait in a Jedi, especially if they're able to still fight but use their distaste to moderate the war (as K'Kruhk did), but it doesn't speak to him actually realizing the war itself could only help evil. "Who knows, but I think that at least one documents says he eventually heads to a secret Temple and doesn't emerge til the NJO. I actually think he's awake during the LOTF series, we just haven't seen him on-camera." Again, though, he heads to a secret temple, he doesn't rejoin galactic affairs. What he essentially does is hide out for decades and by the time of LotF, there's no indication he's even attempted to make contact with the NJO or the GA. Absence of proof is not proof of absence, but when his only actions before Legacy have been to hide out and then hide out some more, it doesn't make him look very helpful. "Rosh Penin and Kyle in a nutshell: I agree with Kyle here. Kill Rosh." Hah. Rosh was an annoying little bastard, I'll give you that. Kyle probably agreed. But he's firmly against killing Rosh, unless you think he was only telling Jaden not to do it so he could kill Rosh himself. -----signature----- What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger.
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