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Author	Topic: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 4/4 3:33pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Er, how was he not taken in by Sora Bulq? He was manipulated into attending a conference by Sora Bulq with no suspicions, at which he was nearly killed by Asajj Ventress. It doesn't make him stupid as other Jedi were also fooled, but it doesn't make him look exceptionally wise. And again, he didn't realize that the Clone Wars were a farce or could only end evilly, he simply didn't have the stomach for war. Which, as I said, can be a good trait in a Jedi, especially if they're able to still fight but use their distaste to moderate the war (as K'Kruhk did), but it doesn't speak to him actually realizing the war itself could only help evil. The conference was hosted by Mace Windu, let's not forget. Sora Bolq was just invited. Also, he said that it wasn't an issue of stomach for war but whether or not that the Jedi were losing their way by fighting in it. -----signature----- Check out Halt Evil Doer!: The RPG setting for Super Heroes! Halt Evil Doer PDF: http://tinyurl.com/555axt
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ChildOfWinds Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 4/4 8:56pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Ashandarei Discussion with Charlemagne about K'Kruhk, which we were told shouldn't be in the Lit thread. Sorry to interrupt, but I'm finding it interesting, so I wanted to continue. Hi, Ash! Welcome to our "home away from home". He shows up more often than K'Kruhk, certainly. He's also only a Knight at this point, yet has been described by Luke as being the one who he "never doubted", I would certainly much prefer to have Lowie as the leader of the Jedi in the Legacy era rather than KK. Lowie is a Jedi of Luke's new tradition and was trained by Luke. I don't want the Jedi Order of the future to go back to the traditions of the pre-Luke Jedi. What kind of a Legacy does that leave for Luke? None really. And there's something that just doesn't sit right with me that apparently not only are all of the Jedi of Luke's era dead (even Jedi like Lowie who SHOULD easily be alive), but also Ben and his wife, their children, and their children's children; Jaina and her decendants (until probably Roan), and Allana, etc., etc. BUT we still have a PREQUEL Jedi not only alive, but apparently now in charge of the Order. That doesn't work well for me. And consequently focusing on them to the exclusion of all else for at least forty years. He hasn't rejoined the Order, why? If he's truly as wise as you think, he could help them a huge amount. I really agree with this! I don't understand why, if KK still existed, that he couldn't have helped Luke establish the Order. What happened to those padawans, by the way? I haven't read all of KK's story. And I wish that Luke could have been the one to tell Cade to "Get over himself". It's not K'Kruhk himself I mind so much, it's the fact that it feels like many other more likely characters were passed over so that Dark Horse could bring back one of their own. I think there might be something to that too. RK_Striker_JK_5 We don't even know if the Fel dynasty was from Jag and Jaina because they don't play up whatever Solo heritage the may or may not have. I pray that it's not. I would much prefer that it not be too. Poor Han and Leia don't deserve to have their descendants be imperials. Not after all the struggles they went through to defeat the Empire and restore a republican/democratic form of government. Plus, it seems to probable and I like surprises and twists. And like I said, I gloss over the Legacy talk. So I should be able to avoid spoilers for the unread stuff. Okay! Good! I know what Hosk's fate is... but I still like that Cade made the effort. I agree. That at least shows that Cade is moving in the right direction. It's too bad that Hosk didn't make it though. Oh, but didn't you know? Random character deaths and Order-66 slaughters are the way to go! Not for me! Charlemagne19 Who knows, but I think that at least one documents says he eventually heads to a secret Temple and doesn't emerge til the NJO. I actually think he's awake during the LOTF series, we just haven't seen him on-camera. Which seems rather odd, don't you think? Rouge77 Could it be that the temple is one of those Covenant storage places that are mentioned in the KOTOR #27 pre-view and that he hears about it from Celeste Morne? (Perhaps getting in that same stasis chamber in which she has slept the past 4000 years?) She's alive 4,000 years later??? I didn't know that. I haven't read Vector yet. OJO Jedi Master whatever-his-name-was Ikrit? Lord_Riven And I hate the hat with vitriol. It's nothing special. Seen hats like those many times in anime, and Asian movies/TV. It doesn't do anything for me either. Ashandarei I could swear there was a section in Destiny's Way where the Jedi heard about Alpha Red an unilaterally declared it an abomination. However, I don't have the book to hand, so until I can find proof I'll concede that. As I recall, Luke was horrified the Cal Omas was going to use Alpha Red and he and Mara had some talk about what could be done. Apparently Vergere heard them talking and got rid of Alpha Red. but when his only actions before Legacy have been to hide out and then hide out some more, it doesn't make him look very helpful. He doesn't look very helpful to me either.
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Ashandarei Registered: Oct '04	Date Posted: 4/5 1:56am Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0 - Date Edited: 4/5 2:09am (1 edits total) Edited By: Ashandarei
	Charlemagne19 "The conference was hosted by Mace Windu, let's not forget. Sora Bolq was just invited." You have it the wrong way around. Sora Bulq gathered them at his old family estate and invited Windu to come and present the Order proper's side of the argument. "Also, he said that it wasn't an issue of stomach for war but whether or not that the Jedi were losing their way by fighting in it." True, but again this point has been raised by other Jedi than K'Kruhk as well. K'Kruhk quickly rejoined the war after he became convinced that despite open war being against his interpretation of what Jedi were, "evil must be opposed." On a side note, I'm always surprised that Jedi such as K'Kruhk weren't simply given different assignments. They have rank in the GAR, of course, but that doesn't mean they need to be assigned as field commanders; send them on intelligence gathering missions or even arrest missions. If they have such a huge problem with commanding troops, it's not like there aren't plenty of other jobs to do that Jedi would be insanely useful for. ChildOfWinds "I don't want the Jedi Order of the future to go back to the traditions of the pre-Luke Jedi. What kind of a Legacy does that leave for Luke? None really." Another point on which we wholeheartedly agree, ChildOfWinds. Essentially, Luke's only Legacy in that case is a descendant and a Jedi Order that he didn't so much rebuild as copy. I don't hate the Prequel Order; they had many good Jedi as members, they had many good ideas, and they were obviously effective if they worked for 1000 years. However, they're not the mirror that Luke's Order should be held up to, because they're from a whole different galaxy, one in which the Sith never conquered and instilled an even deeper mistrust in the Jedi than before, one in which the entire galaxy was united under a weak government that used the Jedi as its police force, and one in which the order of the day was to suppress feelings instead of confronting and controlling them. "BUT we still have a PREQUEL Jedi not only alive, but apparently now in charge of the Order. That doesn't work well for me." Exactly. It's too big a leap for me to swallow; NONE of the characters of the NJO have survived long enough to be important players, yet a character who's nearly two centuries old and has been in hiding for almost half his life (and just so happens to be a Dark Horse favorite) comes back to be this great and revered master? It just doesn't make sense. "As I recall, Luke was horrified the Cal Omas was going to use Alpha Red and he and Mara had some talk about what could be done. Apparently Vergere heard them talking and got rid of Alpha Red. " Ah, perhaps the rest of the Jedi simply didn't know about it until after it was taken care of. My mistake. -----signature----- What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger.
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Rouge77 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 4/5 6:32am Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0 - Date Edited: 4/5 7:22am (3 edits total) Edited By: Rouge77
	ChildOfWinds posted: She's alive 4,000 years later??? I didn't know that. I haven't read Vector yet. Story hasn't gotten that far yet, but they have released covers of future issues. In one of them, Celeste is facing Darth Vader. ChildOfWinds posted: [i]Ikrit?[i] No, Aqinos. He was excommunicated by Yoda about 50 BBY, became a member of Luke's Order somewhere around 12-13 ABY and was a member over a decade. He died in the YV war. -----signature----- Recipient of the Confederation Ewok with "Rebel Yub"® Action!! Kill Ben Skywalker
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ChildOfWinds Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 4/6 1:26pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Ashandarei : CoW: "I don't want the Jedi Order of the future to go back to the traditions of the pre-Luke Jedi. What kind of a Legacy does that leave for Luke? None really." Another point on which we wholeheartedly agree, ChildOfWinds. Essentially, Luke's only Legacy in that case is a descendant and a Jedi Order that he didn't so much rebuild as copy. Exactly! Like you, I don't hate the prequel Jedi. BUT, the Order did have some major flaws, and, as you said, it's a whole new galaxy, one in which "the Sith never conquered and instilled an even deeper mistrust in the Jedi than before, one in which the entire galaxy was united under a weak government that used the Jedi as its police force, and one in which the order of the day was to suppress feelings instead of confronting and controlling them. " I agree. It's a new era with new problems and challenges, and thus it requires new traditions and ways of working. Besides, there are so few Jedi now, so they can't operate in the same way that the prequel Jedi did. They have to almost pick priorities. And unfortunately, Luke and his Jedi are almost always right in the thick of major galactic conflicts. They haven't known a galaxy at peace for longer than a few years at a time. "BUT we still have a PREQUEL Jedi not only alive, but apparently now in charge of the Order. That doesn't work well for me." Exactly. It's too big a leap for me to swallow; NONE of the characters of the NJO have survived long enough to be important players, yet a character who's nearly two centuries old and has been in hiding for almost half his life (and just so happens to be a Dark Horse favorite) comes back to be this great and revered master? It just doesn't make sense. It doesn't seem right or fair or logical to me. Rouge77 ChildOfWinds posted: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- She's alive 4,000 years later??? I didn't know that. I haven't read Vector yet. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Story hasn't gotten that far yet, but they have released covers of future issues. In one of them, Celeste is facing Darth Vader. Ah! Well, I guess I hope she's NOT alive a thousand years later than. Might it be an old holo of her that Vader activates? No, Aqinos. He was excommunicated by Yoda about 50 BBY, became a member of Luke's Order somewhere around 12-13 ABY and was a member over a decade. He died in the YV war. Thanks for the information! For some reason, I never heard of him!
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Nobody145 Registered: Feb '07	Date Posted: 4/6 9:28pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	On the Celeste thing, slight spoilers- We've seen all of the Dark Times Vector covers and the first of the Rebellion Vector covers, and Celeste is on all of them. Celeste appearing in the first Dark Times cover could've been a fluke, or a hologram, or a metaphor, but she's seen fighting Darth Vader in the second DT cover, so its most likely Celeste. Then the first Rebellion Vector cover has Celeste and some old guy (Sith Lord?) but yeah, its reasonable to say that Celeste is a central character of the Vector crossover, and will probably survive to Cade's time. Though if she already survived from the KotOR era to Dark Times, what's another century to Cade's era? And I just chalk it up to stasis, or some weird Sith alchemy thing or something, you never know what can happen with those Sith artifacts. Which is a bit of a shame, for Celeste to be dragged across millenia like that, and I sorta liked having her as a part of the KotOR cast, but oh well. -----signature----- Don't mind me, I'm nobody important.
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Lord_Riven Registered: Nov '01	Date Posted: 4/8 2:56am Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Wouldn't mind if Celeste dies against Vader and just shows up as a Force Ghost in Rebellion and Legacy. -----signature----- Legacy AU fic: Family Ties. Follow the link in the next line. http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3751906/1/Star_Wars_Legacy_Family_Ties Casiah - Cade Skywalker x Marasiah Fel 'shipper (#1) Canderous >>> Boba Fett
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Rouge77 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 4/8 9:22am Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0 - Date Edited: 4/8 9:22am (1 edits total) Edited By: Rouge77
	I doubt that. In that Rebellion picture, she still has the Muur talisman... I doubt a Force Ghost would be seen with a Sith talisman. Well, perhaps picture of Celeste is a flashback in the comic, intended to lead us to wrong assumptions on what happens in the Dark Times arc. -----signature----- Recipient of the Confederation Ewok with "Rebel Yub"® Action!! Kill Ben Skywalker
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RK_Striker_JK_5 Registered: Jul '03	Date Posted: 4/9 2:54am Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Lord_Riven: I totally agree, there are so many post-ROTJ Jedi that could have been used in that role. Yeah. It's stretching credibility past the fracture point and almost causing nuclear fission! And I hate the hat with vitriol. It's nothing special. Seen hats like those many times in anime, and Asian movies/TV. It's... a bit dumb, yeah. Burns hat Jedi_Ben: * Marvel: Thanks, dude. * Nechayev is a surprise here, but what I like most is that sense of sadness you've identified. It was a slow descent to the occupation proper, but aided the entire time by arrogant Bajorans. I thought it really drew on the various stories of both worlds and linked the pieces together very well. At the same time there wasn't the depressing hopelessness that has become standard in later SW EU. I think the Bajoran Occupation os probably the closest so far to the 'Dark Times' in ST, if you think about it. A monolithic Empire, a band of ill-equipped insurgents... And yeah, the Bajorans did invite the Cardassians in, after a fashion. Kubus Oak... think he became the Bajoran Quisling? ChildOfWinds: I would certainly much prefer to have Lowie as the leader of the Jedi in the Legacy era rather than KK. Seconded and thirded! I don't want the Jedi Order of the future to go back to the traditions of the pre-Luke Jedi. What kind of a Legacy does that leave for Luke? None really. First of the New, not first of the retreads! And there's something that just doesn't sit right with me that apparently not only are all of the Jedi of Luke's era dead (even Jedi like Lowie who SHOULD easily be alive), but also Ben and his wife, their children, and their children's children; Jaina and her decendants (until probably Roan), and Allana, etc., etc. Kinda gives one a bad feeling about their fates... Where are they? Is it such a bad thing to give some hope that at least some of them are gonna live? Come on, John and Jan! Give us a cameo-a headshot, at least! I would much prefer that it not be too. Poor Han and Leia don't deserve to have their descendants be imperials. Not after all the struggles they went through to defeat the Empire and restore a republican/democratic form of government. And it's not fair to Jaina to be shoehorned into this, either. Her fate's written on the wall and I wanna grafitti-tag it! And like I said, I gloss over the Legacy talk. So I should be able to avoid spoilers for the unread stuff. Okay! Good! Yeah, so go ahead and talk. I agree. That at least shows that Cade is moving in the right direction. It's too bad that Hosk didn't make it though. Yeah. Hosk is pretty much the noblest Bothan besides Asyr Sei'lar I think I've ever read about. Ashandrei: Essentially, Luke's only Legacy in that case is a descendant and a Jedi Order that he didn't so much rebuild as copy And that's... wrong. The old Order had good Jedi, but the Order itself was flawed right down to the core. I don't hate the Prequel Order; they had many good Jedi as members, they had many good ideas, and they were obviously effective if they worked for 1000 years. Ehh... gotta disagree they worked. The Old Republic was rotting and the Sith went into hiding. They just slowly stagnated and became ineffectual as the years went on. Exactly. It's too big a leap for me to swallow; NONE of the characters of the NJO have survived long enough to be important players, yet a character who's nearly two centuries old and has been in hiding for almost half his life (and just so happens to be a Dark Horse favorite) comes back to be this great and revered master? It just doesn't make sense. I'd laugh my rear end off if they had Lusa do a cameo. Seriously. She's 'dead' already in the Trilogy of Suck. But no body was found, so it's open! -----signature----- E-married to the wonderful DarthIshtar. Now also her Padawan. Member of the Y.J.K. Revolution Staring into the Darkness http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/27537567/p1/?23
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Rouge77 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 4/9 7:47am Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0 - Date Edited: 4/9 7:51am (4 edits total) Edited By: Rouge77
	RK_Striker_JK_5 posted: ChildOfWinds And there's something that just doesn't sit right with me that apparently not only are all of the Jedi of Luke's era dead (even Jedi like Lowie who SHOULD easily be alive), but also Ben and his wife, their children, and their children's children; Jaina and her decendants (until probably Roan), and Allana, etc., etc. Kinda gives one a bad feeling about their fates... Where are they? Is it such a bad thing to give some hope that at least some of them are gonna live? Come on, John and Jan! Give us a cameo-a headshot, at least! I think there is little doubt that all those characters are intended to be dead in Legacy and that none of them will appear in the comic. That of course doesn't has to mean that we get confirmation of their deaths in Legacy - I doubt that we will - but it seems to be that there's not much reason to hope that they appear alive in it. Cade is supposed to be the last Skywalker. I don't think they will retreat from that position in Legacy, except by showing that Gunn Yage is Kol's daughter. I don't count the Fels as Skywalkers, if they are descendent from Jaina; too many generations would separate them from Leia. Future novels or comics might show that some of these characters are still alive, basically resurrecting them. I can well imagine such thing happening, but it depends on who is telling the stories beyond Legacy. It has to be different people than the ones behind Legacy for it to happen, I guess. But until such thing happens, they are all "missing in action, presumed dead" to me. I don't like it, but that's how I see it. -----signature----- Recipient of the Confederation Ewok with "Rebel Yub"® Action!! Kill Ben Skywalker
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 4/9 10:52am Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Legacy has had a very narrow focus though and it's a big galaxy. -----signature----- Howe: Why? Castle: So they can't walk away. So they can't profit from the pain they've caused..... Howe: And no second chances... Castle: I don't do redemption.
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Rouge77 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 4/9 1:29pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0 - Date Edited: 4/9 1:30pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Rouge77
	True, but I think that like in OT, where we only get to see a very small part of the galaxy and a limited cast, everything truly important is still shown. I think the same is intended to be the case in Legacy. Also, I would think that the Jedi who have survived would know if any other Skywalkers they have known would be alive. They should have felt their deaths. After all, Wolf ended up looking for Cade because he didn't felt his death. So, if some elder member of the Skywalker damily would be still alive, the Jedi should probably know it... If anyone wants to check it, there's a new longer version available of the Invincible summary we got some time ago. I posted it in the official Legacy of the Force thread. Nothing new about Luke, but the role of Han, Leia, Zekk and Jagged Fel in the novel is revealed. -----signature----- Recipient of the Confederation Ewok with "Rebel Yub"® Action!! Kill Ben Skywalker
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 4/9 3:03pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Comics post! Those of you not interested in comics, move along. IDW are doing quite well for themselves. 1. Anyone who wants a well-written action tale of a hard man hero would be advised to check out Cobb: Off The Leash - old-fashioned fun. 2. Their work on Transformers for the last 2-3 years has been excellent but may reach another level with the All Hail Megatron series, which starts in July and will run for 12 issues, more details here: My theory is that Prime and Autobots have to deal with the Dead Universe, but at the cost of abandoning Earth, thus Megatron gets to take over. It's set one year after the upcoming Revelations series. 3. After a rocky start, the Angel series which is Angel Season 6, has improved greatly - not least with the return of Fred (you highlight this and complain - I have no sympathy for you). Title is still under review but it's guaranteed my interest for the next few issues. -----signature----- Howe: Why? Castle: So they can't walk away. So they can't profit from the pain they've caused..... Howe: And no second chances... Castle: I don't do redemption.
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Nobody145 Registered: Feb '07	Date Posted: 4/9 10:29pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Yeah, the Angel series is awesome, isn't it? I still wish WB hadn't cancelled Angel in the first place of course (damn WB, they cancel Angel but keep crap like Charmed going for a decade, companies wouldn't know good taste if the executives had their heads chopped off), but the After the Fall series is pretty good. Though the cliffhanger is cruel, but at least they can tongue-in-cheek say they're being cruel. I can't wait for the first TPB to come out someday. Did you get the Focus on Decepticons thing? Not sure if it was really worth it, and not sure I care for the timejump (a lot of series seem to be doing that these days), though the preview was funny. The Autobots have already effectively abandoned earth for the short-term now, despite how earth has already shifted from just another backwater entrenchment to one of the pivotal frontlines (as I think Prowl or someone said at the end of Infiltration), with the ultra-energon being there, Megatron being there, and Sunstreaker's disappearance. I liked Hotrod's refusal to leave in the middle of the crisis, though whatever pulled Prime away was probably important too. And I'm still debating whether to buy that Premiere version of most of the earlier stories. Although Revelation will actually give some answers. They got rid of the Reapers (thankfully), but there's at least two different organizations on earth with access to Transformer technology, and that's not counting the Decepticons either. And then there's still the looming Dead Universe of course. The Optimus Prime Spotlight probably moved that storyline along more than any of the mini-series have, though I didn't care much for Otpimus' sanctimous attitude at the end. And on actual Star Wars and Skywalker related stuff- its not quite guaranteed whether there would be that many Jedi who could sense whether there were any Skywalkers left. Shado didn't think Cade was still alive, and those two had been good friends, fellow Padawans, although Shado apparently thought Cade would've been kicked out if it weren't for him being a Jedi. But its probably Cade is the last Skywalker as he doesn't try to shove the job off on anybody else but instead says Sia would be a better choice as she's actually passionate and idealistic enough for the kind of galaxy-saving quest Sazen has in mind. I still don't quite buy into the Gunner as a full-sister theory (half-sister, definitely, but we'll see about that eventually), but its possible, as Luke had no idea Leia was his sister until he was given huge hints (though him instinctively telepathically seeking her out as he hung from Bespin was a big clue). Wolf Sazen had a particularly strong bond with Cade due to Cade reviving him with that lightning-ish skill, and Talon has mentioned that bond as well (too bad we have no idea if Sia has a bond with Cade now too). How long has that idiotic "60 is the new 30" stuff been around anyway? I know since LotF started at least, to justify Han and Boba Fett still being central characters? I don't know if before LotF the human lifespan was that long, but its probable that most of the family just died out over time. Maybe killed in action, as being a Jedi is a dangerous lifestyle, or they simply died of old age, as while 120 is the max doesn't mean everybody has to live that long naturally. We have people like Mon Mothma just passing away quietly, and she wasn't over a century old (I think), the stress of the Rebellion had simply worn her out. I don't mind if the rest of the extended first, second and third generation Skywalker-Solo family is written off as simply fading away quietly in their sleep after long, exhausting lifetimes. Even if the Force might lengthen lives, but for story purposes, we don't need it too. Anyway, if Ben was still around, then I'd feel annoyed that he wasn't doing more, just like how in LotF with how Luke is still a main, major character in the middle of the story but he still hasn't dealt with the problem yet, which makes him look idiotic/incompetent. At least if the early Skywalker/Solo family is dead from old age, then its not their fault the galaxy has fallen apart. And Kol seemed like a pretty senior Jedi already, with how he was a Jedi Master, headed up the Ossus Project (which would've been a spectacular sucess and done a lot of good for the galaxy if not for sabotage of course), and was senior enough to speak for the Jedi at GA Triumvirate meetings. -----signature----- Don't mind me, I'm nobody important.
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Rouge77 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 4/10 4:03am Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	And the problem with that is that Kol isn't that old, about 39 when he dies, according to Duursema, and the Legacy team insists of him being Ben's grandson, so even if the Skywalkers would have had only one child in every generation, there is still several people whose absence can't be explained by peaceful death in old age (in SW terms). Kol's parents at minimum should have been still alive in 130 ABY, pretty much even if Ben would start a family really quickly. And if they were and died earlier in the war or on Ossus, then why isn't Cade distressed about them? Or about possible uncles, aunts, cousins etc. What comes to Mon Mothma, the idea is, I think, that the poisoning in JAT harmed her health permanently. -----signature----- Recipient of the Confederation Ewok with "Rebel Yub"® Action!! Kill Ben Skywalker
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