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Topic:
SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
4/15 8:12pm
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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FYI, I actually have bought all of the Robotech Novelizations despite having some familiarity with the original series and I will inform fans that have no interest in purchasing the actual animated series (*cough* Windy, s65horsey, and others) that they're actually quite good. They remind me a great deal of the Halo novelizations in that they really just decided to throw out a third of the script in order to write their own thing. Brian Daley and James Luceno really poured their hearts out into these four Timothy Zahn sized novels.
Robotech book 1#
Robotech Book 2#
Robotech Book 3#
Robotech Book 4#
They also should be available at most book stores as well.
For those unfamiliar with Robotech, the basic plot in a nutshell is that the human race finds a space ship crash land on their planet (Star Destroyer sized) that immediately touches off a world-wide war between those parties that want to unify to face the race that built the ship and those who want to remain seperate. Surprisingly, the Unifiers win in the conflict and proceed to start reverse engineering all of the nifty super-machines that are onboard.
Ultimately, almost as soon as they repair the original ship and get it flying, humanity finds itself accidentally provoking a shooting war with the race that owned the ship in the first place.
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Come see our alternate NJO: http://tinyurl.com/ycesjq Endor was like the Imperials being assaulted by a hundred Tolkien Dwarf Rangers with a body hair problem.
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ChildOfWinds
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
4/15 10:15pm
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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MasterSkywalker86
that's too funny...since DR have arrive on the scene we had nothing but war...sure they're different from one another but it seems there's no peace for any galactic citizen, and they're hinting now the war will be over.....to surprise have another one.
Oh, yes! I'm sure there will be yet another galactic war after LotF! 
If they wanted to be realistic they should have written "No war can last forever...unless your living in the GFFA then you just have separate multiple wars with a small chance of peace,
LOL! Yep! That's exactly right! Unfortunately, this means that Luke, Leia, and Han never get a happily ever after.
Translation: To effectively hold Luke back from solving the problem on his own we decided he do nothing.....o wait this isn't NJO...ok he'll get a force vision of a pretty OBVIOUS future under Jacen's rule.
In LotF, Luke is sometimes around, but does he accomplish anything worth doing? Not really. Everything Luke does in LotF is actually pretty useless and unnecessary. As I wrote in the Lit SOS today, even putting Jacen in his chair...satisfying and cool as it was, didn't accomplish anything. It didn't change Jacen, and it didn't help the galaxy in any way.
Now miraclously Luke decides to rally the jedi with his leadership to take down Jacen.....yay.
Unfortunately, MS, I think that ALL Luke is going to do is "rally the Jedi". It seems that he's not even going to be going with them to defeat Jacen/Caedus. He's just going to point them in Jacen's direction, evidently, and then he's going to sit back out of danger and just plant his face on Jaina's.  I have NO idea what good that's going to do. Anybody else have any ideas?.
Translation: yada yada yada, Jacen is stronger than his grandfather in the darkside but vaguely where to Palpatine ? and now only one bugloving, Fett worshipping, jedi can do it.
Yeah, and Jaina has more to worry about with regard to the darkside than Luke does.
we already know Luke is more than capable...
Of course he is, but we also know that he most likely WON'T face Jacen.
but this battle should be epic and intense and masterful where one false move will be your last. but I expect too much.......
I'm sure that probably IS expecting too much!
I'm sorry to hear that.
Thanks. She was moved from the hospital to a rehabilitation center late yesterday. She's making pretty good progress, but it will be a while. If she would have broken just the arm or just the hip, it would have been one thing, but she managed to break BOTH at once.
this is my brief interim til my finals...
Good to have you back, MS! I'll respond to your post in Lit SOS sometime tomorrow. My online time is extremely limited at the moment.
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
4/15 10:55pm
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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FYI, if all this Robotech seems odd, please note its partially because I found this old James Luceno Podcast.
http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-5988/TS-8016.mp3
http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-5988/TS-8518.mp3
http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-5988/TS-8520.mp3
http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-5988/TS-8521.mp3
It has me asking James several questions (I was the guy who stuttered a great deal). It answers such wonderful questions as.
* Luke's force attack wasn't meant to be Force Lightning.
* Luke was using Vaapad in the Unifying Force.
* James Luceno was disappointed with Luke's inactivity.
* Jacen Solo wasn't intended to be Luke's successor.
* Han and Leia were meant to be "spiced up" by their break up but James regretted it.
* Dark Lord wasn't intended to be a Darth Vader novel but a bookend to Revenge of the Sith.
* Nom Anor is dead-dead.
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Come see our alternate NJO: http://tinyurl.com/ycesjq Endor was like the Imperials being assaulted by a hundred Tolkien Dwarf Rangers with a body hair problem.
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Nobody145
Registered:
Feb '07
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Date Posted:
4/15 11:34pm
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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I thought there was already a world war in progress when the the ship that would become known as the SDF-1 crashed on the planet? I've got to go reread my copy someday. And those are more like omnibuses more than novels, though very good omnibuses. Heck, all the quotes and the giant interconnected web of destiny that links almost everybody sounds better on paper than it looks on TV, especially given that the TV series is spliced together from three different series. Too bad books that bridge the gaps between those nevelizations are out of print. Though given that they reprinted the novelizations, there might be some hope that they'd reprint the others as well, who knows.
And has anyone used Lyja this decade? I remember reading a reference to her after that Onslaught thing, during that attempted reboot of the Marvel universe, but not sure if anything in continuity has been mentioned since (not counting the M2 Fantastic Five). I know she's on a future cover, but not sure what else aside from that. Though speaking of Mystique, I'm still mad they the X-men didn't capture anyone after Messiah Complex, despite kind of winning, at least in the sense of being the last group standing.
And I wouldn't put anything past Marvel these days, not after what they pulled with Spiderman. Though it depends on whether the Marvel EIC also has a grudge/obsession with breaking up that couple.
I do like that they've said that Tony Stark won't be a Skrull, so they won't retcon his actions during Civil War (despite how much I disliked them), but almost anybody else is fair game. We've already seen that Hank is a Skrull, the Initiative series is going to follow up on that, and of the question is how long, like did he purposely program Clor to be such a disaster? Though there's also the possibility of Skrulls just snatching someone yesterday and replacing them, or multiple versions of one character jumping around. We've already seen this with Daredevil, Ms. Marvel and who knows who else.
And while it'd be great to have Nick Fury back (Bendis writes him out of the MU, and now he writes him back in, how convenient for him  ), I'm almost afraid it might just be another Skrull. I'm mostly sure about the one that was helping Bucky, but not much else, unfortunately.
On the Robotech thing- all the talk of Protoculture as a near-mythical energy source sounds interesting, but I still wince at how a word like that ended up being a near-mystical energy source where in the original it was almost exactly what it sounded like. And then there's the unfortunate trend of having to somehow explain where all the characters from the previous saga went when the next saga starts up, though I think the novels probably did a better job with that than the TV series, of course. And hm, interesting podcast. Nice to hear an author who cares about the characters.
Though the part about Jacen not being intended to be Luke's successor is... surprising, considering how NJO ended up, unless LotF was being planned that far back. Which makes it seem even more depressing that all of NJO was built up to get rid of Luke successors (since Anakin's dead, Jacen's evil, and Jaina... well, in another decade or two, maybe). I guess in the meantime they just have Luke go from effective to mopey at the drop of a hat.
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Rouge77
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
4/16 7:59am
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
- Date Edited:
4/16 8:44am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Rouge77
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Nobody145 posted:
Though the part about Jacen not being intended to be Luke's successor is... surprising, considering how NJO ended up, unless LotF was being planned that far back. Which makes it seem even more depressing that all of NJO was built up to get rid of Luke successors (since Anakin's dead, Jacen's evil, and Jaina... well, in another decade or two, maybe).
Perhaps they already then planned to have Luke to be succeeded by his own child? And NJO, DN and LotF are just used to remove the Solo kids from the stage? To be replaced by DR's own creation, which turned out to be Ben.
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
4/16 7:40pm
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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Rouge77 posted:
Nobody145 posted:
Though the part about Jacen not being intended to be Luke's successor is... surprising, considering how NJO ended up, unless LotF was being planned that far back. Which makes it seem even more depressing that all of NJO was built up to get rid of Luke successors (since Anakin's dead, Jacen's evil, and Jaina... well, in another decade or two, maybe).
Perhaps they already then planned to have Luke to be succeeded by his own child? And NJO, DN and LotF are just used to remove the Solo kids from the stage? To be replaced by DR's own creation, which turned out to be Ben.
Ben doesn't really seem to be Grandmaster material, to be honest. First, they have him be part of the Schultzstaffle of Jacen Solo then they have him play up his "Detective" qualities over his Jedi nature.
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Come see our alternate NJO: http://tinyurl.com/ycesjq Endor was like the Imperials being assaulted by a hundred Tolkien Dwarf Rangers with a body hair problem.
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DeJade_Vu
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
4/17 3:45am
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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Hiya everybody! So I haven't been on here since late December or something...I have a good excuse though. I've been studying in Ireland this spring semester. And what an experience it's been! I'm living in Galway, the most wonderful city in all of Ireland, although Dublin comes close--and since I've traveled to nearly every major sight in Ireland I think I'm qualified to give that opinion.  (Seriously, ask me about a famous sight in Ireland--chances are I have seen it.)
I see we have a new home! It's funny to see this thread in EU Community. It's actually kind of bizarre. I have no clue what anyone's discussing here so a little recap--just a teeny one--would be nice.  How's Legacy of the Force going? Is it complete and utter crud or is it redeeming itself?
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I'm a PBS mind in an MTV world. ~Eschew Obfuscation~ Pope Benedict XVI Owns You Mara Jade Forever 
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Rouge77
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
4/17 3:09pm
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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Charlemagne19 posted:
Ben doesn't really seem to be Grandmaster material, to be honest. First, they have him be part of the Schultzstaffle of Jacen Solo then they have him play up his "Detective" qualities over his Jedi nature.
Well, the kid is still just 14 years old. He will be ready 15-20 years into the future, after some old guard Jedi, like Kyp Durron, has served as a placeholder for him - in the case that Luke retires before Ben is ready to ascend to the throne. I don't like to see him in the future as a leader of the Jedi, but I'm pretty certain he will be one, unofficially or officially, one day.
My dislike towards Ben as a Grand Master is two-fold: Jedi Order shouldn't be run as a family business whose leadership is passed from father to son, and Ben is currently the favourite of DR. There's no element of surprise in his story if it goes on like this.
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
4/18 3:26pm
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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Rouge77 posted:
Charlemagne19 posted:
Ben doesn't really seem to be Grandmaster material, to be honest. First, they have him be part of the Schultzstaffle of Jacen Solo then they have him play up his "Detective" qualities over his Jedi nature.
Well, the kid is still just 14 years old. He will be ready 15-20 years into the future, after some old guard Jedi, like Kyp Durron, has served as a placeholder for him - in the case that Luke retires before Ben is ready to ascend to the throne. I don't like to see him in the future as a leader of the Jedi, but I'm pretty certain he will be one, unofficially or officially, one day.
My dislike towards Ben as a Grand Master is two-fold: Jedi Order shouldn't be run as a family business whose leadership is passed from father to son, and Ben is currently the favourite of DR. There's no element of surprise in his story if it goes on like this.
For me, I don't see why Luke should step down at all.
If he's going to live somewhere like 120 years naturally then why not pass it to someone of 3 or so generations down the line.
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Come see our alternate NJO: http://tinyurl.com/ycesjq Endor was like the Imperials being assaulted by a hundred Tolkien Dwarf Rangers with a body hair problem.
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Rouge77
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
4/18 5:54pm
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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Charlemagne19 posted:
For me, I don't see why Luke should step down at all.
I don't think he should yet, but clearly mobs of fans seem to want him dead or otherwise made incapable of doing anything.... And eventually Luke has to step down.
Charlemagne19 posted:
If he's going to live somewhere like 120 years naturally then why not pass it to someone of 3 or so generations down the line.
Because that person, Luke's descendant or otherwise his junior by three generations, would be young and inexperienced compared to more senior Jedi who would survive from earlier generations.
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
4/18 11:46pm
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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Rouge77 posted:
Because that person, Luke's descendant or otherwise his junior by three generations, would be young and inexperienced compared to more senior Jedi who would survive from earlier generations.
Yes, bringing new energy and vision than the Luke Yes Men.
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Jedi Ben
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
4/19 11:27am
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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Well, Marvel actually managed to have an event conclude well with Annihilation Conquest featuring a great final fight. It also paves the way for a Guardians of the Galaxy title that includes Rocket Raccoon, master strategist. (Yes, really). This cosmic corner of Marvel has really seen some excellent work in recent years and it looks set to continue.
That said, in the wake of some of the news from the NYCC, I'm inclined to say we'll be seeing a DC resurgence after two bad years as they've jettisoned the architects of the bulk of the trouble and gained a new confidence in their core titles. The mess that is Countdown is nearly gone and the sooner the better. Trinity is looking a far better and more focused title, but there's a sense DC has learnt from the success of the Sinestro Corps story and is now applying that template to other series. At the same time it's not rotating creators either, Johns & Robinson are on Action / Superman, Johns & Tomasi on Green Lantern / GLC, Simone on Wonder Woman / Secret Six, Johns & Morrison on Final Crisis. There's some careful thinking and planning going on here.
Compared to Marvel, DC's strength the last few years has been that they believe in exploring the new status quo before you shake it up again, even if it's done badly like with Countdown. In contrast Marvel have gone from event to event at breakneck speed without ever letting the pieces fall. I can well see DC regaining an edge over Marvel, depending on how Secret Invasion concludes. Overall I'm inclined to see DC as the company with a better plan now.
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Other guy: Could I have your autograph?
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ChildOfWinds
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
4/21 9:11pm
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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Charlemagne19
It has me asking James several questions (I was the guy who stuttered a great deal). It answers such wonderful questions as.
* Luke's force attack wasn't meant to be Force Lightning.
* Luke was using Vaapad in the Unifying Force.
* James Luceno was disappointed with Luke's inactivity.
* Jacen Solo wasn't intended to be Luke's successor.
Interesting, C! I'm glad to hear that Luceno didn't mean for Luke's attack to be Force lightning. Did he say what it was exactly/ So where did Luke learn to use Vaapad? *I* was disappointed with Luke's inactivity too!!!
I haven't had time to listen to the actual podcast. Did Luceno say anything more specific?? And can you post what he said about Luke in the Lit SOS too?
Nobody145
I guess in the meantime they just have Luke go from effective to mopey at the drop of a hat.
Unfotunately, Luke seems to be mopey and ineffectual a lot more often than he's portrayed as effective.
DeJade_Vu
Hiya everybody! So I haven't been on here since late December or something
Hi, DJV!!! Welcome back!!!
I hope you continue to enjoy your time in Ireland. You should look up Jedi Ben when you're in London!
I see we have a new home! It's funny to see this thread in EU Community. It's actually kind of bizarre.
Well, SOS is now back in Lit too. We do most of our Luke discussions in Lit, though Horsey likes us to talk about Luke here too. I'm always willing to talk about Luke. 
How's Legacy of the Force going? Is it complete and utter crud or is it redeeming itself?
I have to say that I really don't like it. Betrayal was good. It's gone downhill ever since, in my opinion.
Charlemagne19
For me, I don't see why Luke should step down at all.
If he's going to live somewhere like 120 years naturally then why not pass it to someone of 3 or so generations down the line.
I agree, C. Yoda didn't seem to step down after almost 900 years. Why should Luke??? As you said, it can be passed down 3 or so generations in the future.
Rouge77
I don't think he should yet, but clearly mobs of fans seem to want him dead or otherwise made incapable of doing anything....
I know, and I really don't understand this!!! This is why SOS is needed!
And eventually Luke has to step down.
Why, R77? Yoda didn't.
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Nobody145
Registered:
Feb '07
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Date Posted:
4/22 1:54am
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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On the Vaapad thing, it could just be an instinctive use. Or it could just be an author mistake too, as I'm not sure if even Force instinct is enough to use Vaapad, as Vaapad was specifically developed by Mace Windu, and comes very close to the darkside. A stable Jedi Master could use it, but most of the Vaapad users fell (Sora), went insane (Depa), or were always close to the darkside (Quinlan). There was a seventh incomplete lightsaber form I think, but maybe they just renamed the seventh form to Vaapad after Mace's style.
And for once, I'm trying to think optimistically- while it seems like Luke is more often ineffective rather than effective, the rare times Luke is effective is usually enough to end things, so they have to keep Luke restrained to keep events from ending sooner.
On the Marvel thing- I've heard how Annihilation Conquest ended and while it doesn't compare to the first Annihilation, at least its a better event than WWH was, and will probably turn out to be a better event than SI will turn out to be. Though the Nova thing was completely out of nowhere if readers haven't been following Nova's own independent series for most of its run. Although I think Nova is one of the best things Marvel is coming out with. Even if nobody believes Ultron is dead (as if that'll ever happen, unfortunately),
Yeah, Countdown was a disaster, but at least it showed off the new Multiverse (and blew up several parts of it too...) but at least we know Final Crisis isn't another universal reset like the first and second major Crisises were, and hopefully they won't attempt a mini-reboot like with Zero Hour. Infinite Crisis did its best to sort out various continuity messes that have piled up over the years, and while it didn't clear up everything, at least it sorta explained everything as part of the problems of a multiverse being crammed into a single universe. And yeah, just about the only good thing one can say about Countdown is that its over (or will be, this week). I'm mainly hoping DC will gain a decisive edge over Marvel soon. Its not that Marvel doesn't have any good series, but the Marvel universe's status quo is pretty depressing. I do wish Final Crisis would be starting sooner, but at least this way it'll give people a few weeks to try to cleanse their mind of the last big disaster.
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Jedi Ben
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
4/22 11:04am
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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On the Marvel thing- I've heard how Annihilation Conquest ended and while it doesn't compare to the first Annihilation, at least its a better event than WWH was, and will probably turn out to be a better event than SI will turn out to be. Though the Nova thing was completely out of nowhere if readers haven't been following Nova's own independent series for most of its run. Although I think Nova is one of the best things Marvel is coming out with. Even if nobody believes Ultron is dead (as if that'll ever happen, unfortunately),
* 'Twas still a fine decking! What's really good is there will be 2 cosmic titles on an ongoing basis, so the events have proved there is a fanbase to sustain them.
Yeah, Countdown was a disaster, but at least it showed off the new Multiverse (and blew up several parts of it too...) but at least we know Final Crisis isn't another universal reset like the first and second major Crisises were, and hopefully they won't attempt a mini-reboot like with Zero Hour.
* Don't think that's on the cards given the details recently released.
Infinite Crisis did its best to sort out various continuity messes that have piled up over the years, and while it didn't clear up everything, at least it sorta explained everything as part of the problems of a multiverse being crammed into a single universe. And yeah, just about the only good thing one can say about Countdown is that its over (or will be, this week). I'm mainly hoping DC will gain a decisive edge over Marvel soon. Its not that Marvel doesn't have any good series, but the Marvel universe's status quo is pretty depressing. I do wish Final Crisis would be starting sooner, but at least this way it'll give people a few weeks to try to cleanse their mind of the last big disaster.
* DC has had a very bad 18 months but are now coming out of it and they've got things sorted on their core properties in a way Marvel hasn't as they're better at exploring the consequences of an event rather than moving onto the next one.
-----signature-----
Other guy: Could I have your autograph?
Darth Vader: No, **** off or I'll kill you with a tray!
Give me penne all'arrabiata or you shall die!
And you and everyone in this canteen!
Death by tray it shall be!
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