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Author	Topic: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
RK_Striker_JK_5 Registered: Jul '03	Date Posted: 5/20 4:43pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Jedi Ben: * How about Entec? Ooh, another good choice! In retrospect, though, it doesn't matter much who did it. Heck, even unsolved, it's a cool mystery. * Or who gets in the way. Yeah. Pretty cold-blooded, there. Almost... Cardassian. What was that old saying about staring into the abyss? * Quite, by the by, Bk 3 is out next week in the US. With a bit of luck I'll be able to order a copy sometime next week by the usual agents. I should be able to get mine Thursday. CHarlemagne19: She did what Jaina should have done. Jacen would have wanted it that way. I think... he would not have preferred it to even happen. God knows I didn't want this. Who the hell would think this is a good idea in any form? Not me. It's perverse. I hate it. MasterSkywalker86: only 11 days left man, you know our culture and the media portray that after high school you must live on your own, but things aren't like the days when my brother graduated, a High School Diploma actually meant something..heck it was the associate degree back in the day. plus with the dollar falling, prices increasing, gas going way over board, it's just the more practical economical way to stay with your folks until you can support yourself. I'm 29 years old and still live with my mother. Granted, I pay rent, have a 45-hour a week job, RL friends and such... wait, what's my point again? Oh! The point is, at the moment, I can't live on my own, financially. And I don't follow the media that much anyway. yeah, DC animated was really good. and some of the Marvel stuff was good too, Spider-man and X-men. but sadly I can't get into DC as much anymore. The DCAU always seemed/seems better to me, and is my primary DC canon. Heck, Harley Quinn and Renee Montoya were originally from the DCAU before migrating over. but I have to tell you one spidey fan to another watch the new spectacular series of spiderman, it's handsdown the best animated series I have seen of the marvel cartoons. I'll look it up. Some of my other friends like it, too. "quick hide under this rock." Rock gets blasted "Oh, for the love of julaberries!" okay we need to talk about this series a bit more, at first glance sort like the Spectacular Spider-man it looks like a child's cartoon. but after looking around you find some depth to the story, in Spider-man it had always been there, with Transformers it's only hinted at but opens up after the first season. TF has always been a lot deeper, IMHO. At first glace, it's cool robots. But then you get this horrid war that's almost destroyed their society. Some Autobots would make good Decepticons, and some Decepticons uphold the Autobot ideal more than the Autobots! especially with Megatron back in arms, but I like the reintroductions with of the Dinobots, WreckGar, and former beast war characters(Black Arachnia). especially with Megatron back in arms, but I like the reintroductions with of the Dinobots, WreckGar, and former beast war characters(Black Arachnia). also I enjoy the references of Transformers lore construction workers look like Spike and Sparkplug, the name of Sari's dog, the classic footage in episode 1, etc. It remembers the past, while forging ahead in the future. Not a lot of series can say that. I love we've got an actual Sentinel Prime. Every other time, we only see him posthumously after Megatron's killed him, usually in some grisly fashion. constructicons are being introduced as well as Elite Guard(make Jazz a permanent member of Prime's team please). "Traffic lights, solid!" Jazz does indeed rock. ). the series has it's kiddie image and is less mature than the new Spider-man series, and Beast Wars. but it's an okay series to watch, Hmm, even BW had its 'kiddie' moments. looks like Transformers 2 is going to give us more Robot time with the characters and flesh out their character developements. check the ign interview. Along with Soundwave, from what I've heard! C-3PO could kick his butt T3 could kick his butt. Pre timeskip Sakura-a really weak character-could kick his butt. Wheelie could kick his butt. burn!!! G1 Bumblebee could-wait, scratch that. There's a reason he was an Ark crewmember. Oh, I forgot two people in my list above. Sannah and Lyric. Sad, because in my Sailor Moon/Young Jedi Knights crossover, Sannah's actually pretty important. So... Jacen Solo Jaina Solo Tenel Ka Zekk Raynar Thul Lusa Lowbacca Em Teedee Raaba Sirra Anja Gallandro Valin Horn Jysella Horn Syal Antilles Myri Antilles Anakin Solo Tahiri Veila Uldir Lochett Sannah Lyric So much wasted potential... So much pure garbage... -----signature----- E-married to the wonderful DarthIshtar. Now also her Padawan. Member of the Y.J.K. Revolution Staring into the Darkness http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/27537567/p1/?23
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 5/20 5:54pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	MasterSkywalker86 posted: Been kinda quiet over here....what's the deal ? Ben I thought you would be up in arms with my dislike of GL No Fear ? well then again, I think it's maybe the genre and type of superhero Hal is. I notice one big difference between the heroes of DC and Marvel, DC characters aren't as relateble as Marvel characters, there are very few character flaws and most of their struggles deal with external forces. Now as proven over the countless decades that has work well for DC and fans, and I'm not debating which one is better, they both are the top of the industry. but Marvel's characters also have been enjoyed by fans, to see their favorite average joe become heroic without being out of touch with their origins. Well that's only overall. The Teen Titans and the Legion of Superheroes were doing the "relatable superheroes with problems" thing by the early seventies and DC had the Hard Travelling Heroes with Hal Jordan and Green Lantern about the same time that Spiderman was at the height of his early popularity. Overall, though, I think that DC manages to survive so well because you rarely see the DC heroes lament their powers the same way that Marvel comics characters do. Spiderman, Daredevil, and the X-men are infamous for how utterly miserable their characters tend to be because of the burden of their destinies. Batman may be a dark, brooding, and Gothic anti-hero but the simple fact is that Bruce Wayne never complains about being the Dark Knight. He's willingly chosen the lifestyle and the only time ANY DC hero tried to live a normal life was Wally West during the early days of the New Teen Titans. Ironically, all the other Teen Heroes more or less mocked him for it in a not so subtle dig at Marvel's habit of having superheroes treated as a burden. -----signature----- Check out Halt Evil Doer!: The RPG setting for Super Heroes! Halt Evil Doer PDF: http://tinyurl.com/555axt
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MasterSkywalker86 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 5/20 6:41pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0 - Date Edited: 5/20 6:57pm (1 edits total) Edited By: MasterSkywalker86
	JB * It depends on where I evaluate your decision from, personally, you're missing one of the best series around by a lack of patience. wink call it a lack of patience, a lack of income, and a lack of interest . I do enjoy some DC stories (the classic Batman tales) but being a newcomer to GL and after reading the first 2 volumes of GL tales it didn't hooked me. now I will say this I'm not the type to lose my interest after one issue, reason is I buy trades to enjoy the full story arc, but if you can't get me to follow the story after one trade(technically after 2 for GL) then you lose as a reader. I'm the type of reader who prefers to have a consistent good series rather than have once in while trade that's particularly good or the massive buildup. * The funny thing is, on this basis, you ought to like GL more as Jordan is a screw-up on many counts! as you'll notice I didn't mention any bias to either DC and Marvel, but it just seems Marvel stories(for the most part ) interest me. I didn't start really reading marvel comics until playing Marvel Ultimate Alliance, and I found out hey the stories are good. I also read the batman stories after liking Begins and found out they were well done too. I guess it comes to my unique interests. perhaps Bruce is the key, and maybe i like more realistic street level superheroes more. * Well, there's only been one issue but I loved it. It is of a totally different nature to the Knaufs run, of which I cannot recommend 15-18 and 21-28 highly enough, but that is no bad thing. how so ? is it more the super hero type rather than the espionage story that Knaufs story revolves around ? * Pepper is there. As for The Order, this says everything about it: lol, nice headsup to the fans. one thing i notice is it's rare for fans to be open to new marvel characters.(see Sentry), though Millar's Wanted movie is getting recognition and I hear Invincible is interesting. * Live without Extremis? Are you serious? Extremis is the foundation for Stark's adventures recently. don't get me wrong it was beautifully done, and the story was good but I felt there should have been more to it, it felt real simple( new villain approaches, police can't fight villain call iron man, iron man faces villain and loses, iron man gets remade, iron man faces villain and wins. essentially the story of extremis has been done before it's called Rocky 3 * Johns is known for reinvigorating Rogues Galleries. to be honest I can't take big headed villains seriously(I'm looking at you MODOK) out of the most unreal characters out there it's something that I just see as absurd. I can take a guy wearing a goblin mask seriously, a dude in clown makeup seriously, heck an alien symbiote or a giant world eater but throw in Modok or Hammond and I just stop reading. also the mutated shark didn't really thrill me. perhaps I should read Batman again...... * Possibly, but here's where the viewpoint evalouation comes into play: As someone who knows where No Fear leads to and it is the first piece following Rebirth, I can easily say you're missing a great story. Yet, if judged on its own merits in isolation, No Fear is only good, it isn't great despite some Pacheco art. When I started collecting GL, I was coming off of Johns Flash run - the bulk of which I'd bought in TPB - so wasfamilar with his MO. I pretty much knew the early stories may not be great but that they'd lead to something bigger and so it proves. The Q for you is: Are you interested in finding out the identity of the Grandmaster of the Manhunters? I follow u and I understand what you mean, perhaps if I didn't have so many preferences now with the 4 series that i would have follow. but unlike Johns story I felt each of Brubaker's arcs can work as really good standalones (well if they're like this) Winter Soldier vol 1-2 Red Menace 1-2 Civil War with Death Of Captain America being the high point of the series. but to be honest again knowing that Sinestro Corps War happens and with the numerous hints that it's Sinestro playing puppet master I'm rather satisfied with not going any deeper in the GL universe, but as I said you do have a point. * GL, under Johns, really goes for the cosmic stage very well, but also doesn't shirk from addressing issues of Hal's past like the destruction of Coast City and his turning against the Corps. If anything I still think you'd like what is going on underneath the bright surface that isn't to your liking. this I might disagree with you, cosmic to a extent i can handle( FF is proof of this), but GL really is deep with that fantastical stuff while FF gives you a breather of real life. but you might be right. * Brubaker's take on WW2 with Cap is far superior to Millar's for me, it is utterly excellent. exactly, there some things in Brubaker's Cap that makes me want to look at certain historic events. notice where 616 Cap has a deep respect for the French people, while their government surrendered the French people did not. Millar's Cap on the other hand in combat sort of makes a wisecrack of hearing surrender says "does this letter on my head stand for France" * Actually, I suggest picking up the TPB of Revenge Of The Green Lanterns due out in a couple of months - so you'll probably be able to afford it by then - it sets the stage for Sinestro Corps and is quite a bit better than No Fear. how you feel about the new Batman story ? I hear now that Tim Drake is questioning the DNA of Bruce's son. * I'll probably end up giving that a look too. not to repeat myself but Waid gave me a great welcoming to comics with his first FF HC, I have to continue the rest of the series. but I hope he brings it to all the stories he does. I'm surprise no one has made any comments about the future release of Marvel movies.... * Plan sounds intriguing but can they pull it off? see this is where they both sound ambitious and way ahead of themselves. now with the success of Iron Man, they're naturally going to have a sequel and I'm guessing SHIELD is going to be playing a huge prescense along with War Machine, further romantic tension between Potts, Alcholism, and the Mandarin(need to make it as realistic as they did to Ras in Begins). now i hear they want to do a cameo of Thor, which I feel might get way ahead of themselves unless it's in his Donald Blake persona, so it doesn't downplay the realistic tone of Iron Man movies. here's the problem we don't know how Hulk will fare, I'm guessing it will be better than the first one(Ang Lee's film was like being in therapy) since Edward Norton does pretty well in his films, but we really don't know. plus they want to do Cap and Thor and they have that crazy date of 2011 for the Avengers, why don't they just focus on each character and take the time to make a quality movie and bring out the sequels before they make another Punisher and Elektra. p.s. Gage interview on The Man With No Name: really? i read you sig you got that from that Vader lego parody thing. RK I'm 29 years old and still live with my mother. Granted, I pay rent, have a 45-hour a week job, RL friends and such... wait, what's my point again? tongue Oh! The point is, at the moment, I can't live on my own, financially. And I don't follow the media that much anyway. wink There you go my friend, you do what you can when you can. when I moved to the house I take care of the cable/phone/internet bill, so i'm not going to be living rent either. The DCAU always seemed/seems better to me, and is my primary DC canon. Heck, Harley Quinn and Renee Montoya were originally from the DCAU before migrating over. me too, heck the Batman Animated series was probably my encyclopedia to all things Batman. Sadly there are few stories of Batman I can get into in the comic universe. I'll look it up. Some of my other friends like it, too. u won't be disappointed. by the way did u like the spider-man movie ? "quick hide under this rock." Rock gets blasted "Oh, for the love of julaberries!" tongue quick lets all head to hoth, the wampas are more hospitable. TF has always been a lot deeper, IMHO. At first glace, it's cool robots. But then you get this horrid war that's almost destroyed their society. Some Autobots would make good Decepticons, and some Decepticons uphold the Autobot ideal more than the Autobots! I haven't seen that in TFA, in Beast Wars I'll agree with you with depth. but give Spectacular Spider-man a chance there is much going on. It remembers the past, while forging ahead in the future. Not a lot of series can say that. I love we've got an actual Sentinel Prime. Every other time, we only see him posthumously after Megatron's killed him, usually in some grisly fashion. really i thought he was a new character. "Traffic lights, solid!" Jazz does indeed rock. and yet they killed him off, like two sport cars were too many sport cars in the movie... Hmm, even BW had its 'kiddie' moments. not to the extent of TFA, there was a bit more adult wit in the jokes of Beast Wars. Along with Soundwave, from what I've heard! wonder if they'll bring Arcee and some more notable Autobots, Ultra Magnus, perhaps Hot Rod, who would u like to see ? G1 Bumblebee could-wait, scratch that. There's a reason he was an Ark crewmember. true, hey in the comic series do they follow the events of the 1984 movie, i was disappointed that they killed off so many memorial autobots in one sitting, it's like they want to purposely to destroy my childhood. Oh, I forgot two people in my list above. Sannah and Lyric. Sad, because in my Sailor Moon/Young Jedi Knights crossover, Sannah's actually pretty important So much wastedpotential... So much pure garbage... when should i flush the toilet ? C Well that's only overall. The Teen Titans and the Legion of Superheroes were doing the "relatable superheroes with problems" thing by the early seventies and DC had the Hard Travelling Heroes with Hal Jordan and Green Lantern about the same time that Spiderman was at the height of his early popularity. I am generalizing, but that's probably the biggest difference DC wasn't really known for relatable heroes, but for heroes that were heroes 24/7. for the Hard Traveling heroes are you talking about the controversial Green Lantern and Green Arrow series ? where they dealt with real life injustices with Hal being the conservative and Ollie being the brash one ? Overall, though, I think that DC manages to survive so well because you rarely see the DC heroes lament their powers the same way that Marvel comics characters do. Spiderman, Daredevil, and the X-men are infamous for how utterly miserable their characters tend to be because of the burden of their destinies. agreed FF and Hulk basically dealt with heroes who had to deal with either looking like a monster of being a monster. while mostly DC heroes are heroic from the get go, their powers are mostly blessings while Marvel's are mostly freak accidents. Batman may be a dark, brooding, and Gothic anti-hero but the simple fact is that Bruce Wayne never complains about being the Dark Knight. He's willingly chosen the lifestyle and the only time ANY DC hero tried to live a normal life was Wally West during the early days of the New Teen Titans. Ironically, all the other Teen Heroes more or less mocked him for it in a not so subtle dig at Marvel's habit of having superheroes treated as a burden. well from the moment of his parent's death Batman was born, but I hear now for the sequel they have Bruce questioning if he wants to keep continuing as Batman and there have been moments(at least in the animated universe)where he wanted to live a normal life, so I wouldn't say he hasn't externally complained about it. but he's the type of guy who will see anything through to the end. now you say anti hero for Batman, and I can understand to a certain extent and alternate depictions of the character, but for the character who hasn't killed a villain on purpose, works with commisioner Gordon, and puts villains in Arkham, to be a anti-hero ? vigilante yes, but i picture the icon of anti-heroes is Frank Castle. -----signature----- " The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."-Darth Vader "Anakin wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that."- George Lucas
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 5/21 9:03am Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	While the Justice League is arguably more serious storytelling. After Batman: The Animated Series, I'd have to say my favorite of the series is the Teen Titans show. Mostly, because I can't help but absolutely love Raven to death. ;-) -----signature----- Check out Halt Evil Doer!: The RPG setting for Super Heroes! Halt Evil Doer PDF: http://tinyurl.com/555axt
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 5/21 2:15pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	RK, Ooh, another good choice! In retrospect, though, it doesn't matter much who did it. Heck, even unsolved, it's a cool mystery. * But...but...we cannot have unresolved pots, it must be fixed - oops, overdosed on SW EU method. Yeah. Pretty cold-blooded, there. Almost... Cardassian. * I'm wondering if the series has the nerve to reveal the resistance as being nothing on the big stage, that it had impact for the Bajorans it helped but was never a serious threat to Cardassia, that post-occupation it is effectively a reassuring myth. What was that old saying about staring into the abyss? * It's a line by Nietzsche: When you stare into the abyss the abyss stares back at you. MS86, call it a lack of patience, a lack of income, and a lack of interest . I do enjoy some DC stories (the classic Batman tales) * You referring to the O'Neil-Adams run? but being a newcomer to GL and after reading the first 2 volumes of GL tales it didn't hooked me. now I will say this I'm not the type to lose my interest after one issue, reason is I buy trades to enjoy the full story arc, but if you can't get me to follow the story after one trade(technically after 2 for GL) then you lose as a reader. I'm the type of reader who prefers to have a consistent good series rather than have once in while trade that's particularly good or the massive buildup. * I wouldn't say 10 issues is exactly massive, O impatient one! That said, given DC's trade policy, it'll be ages before Sinestro Corps is out in TPB form. how so ? is it more the super hero type rather than the espionage story that Knaufs story revolves around ? * Precisely and as such it makes for an excellent contrast. Fraction has made comments that Stark is aware of how he screwed up over the Civil War, he may have made the right decision but the methods used....Fraction may well get me to like Stark in the comics again, although the Knaufs work has been excellent with Stark being haunted by what taking the job of SHIELD director has cost him. lol, nice headsup to the fans. one thing i notice is it's rare for fans to be open to new marvel characters.(see Sentry), though Millar's Wanted movie is getting recognition and I hear Invincible is interesting. * Wanted is a wonderfully subversive tale that's very easily taken literally and so misinterpreted. Invincible has a truly killer twist at issues 11-12 that make the book stand out. I've the Absolute-style mega-HC that collects 1-24 and it reads very well, hoping for a second volume later this year. don't get me wrong it was beautifully done, and the story was good but I felt there should have been more to it, it felt real simple( new villain approaches, police can't fight villain call iron man, iron man faces villain and loses, iron man gets remade, iron man faces villain and wins. essentially the story of extremis has been done before it's called Rocky 3 * Not with blasters, rocket launchers and flamethrowers! I follow u and I understand what you mean, perhaps if I didn't have so many preferences now with the 4 series that i would have follow. but unlike Johns story I felt each of Brubaker's arcs can work as really good standalones (well if they're like this) * I like both personally, still as I said, you'll probably have the cash to spare by the time the GL collections come out. with Death Of Captain America being the high point of the series. but to be honest again knowing that Sinestro Corps War happens and with the numerous hints that it's Sinestro playing puppet master I'm rather satisfied with not going any deeper in the GL universe, but as I said you do have a point. * The thing about Sinestro is that he isn't playing that role, he certainly considers himself the victor but he isn't making the Guardians do anything, they are the architects of their own undoing. In a way GL is treading a road similar to the Batman: Knightfall trilogy where it fairly obvious this is all going to go wrong, but it's fun watching the inevitable car crash. DC are the more conservative of the big two and has tended to go for upholding traditional approaches to superheroics. It generally serves them well, with their handling of Wildstorm being a diastrous exception. this I might disagree with you, cosmic to a extent i can handle( FF is proof of this), but GL really is deep with that fantastical stuff while FF gives you a breather of real life. but you might be right. * Well if we're talking Johns v Waid, Waid'd probably get it. exactly, there some things in Brubaker's Cap that makes me want to look at certain historic events. notice where 616 Cap has a deep respect for the French people, while their government surrendered the French people did not. Millar's Cap on the other hand in combat sort of makes a wisecrack of hearing surrender says "does this letter on my head stand for France" * Despite that, I do like Millar's version. Millar's Cap is a guy who has effectively been a few days revived, perhaps a week or two and WW2 is literally that far away. Brubaker's Cap is smarter, wiser and more experienced in how he handles power. Millar doesn't shirk from making Cap an arse either in a few sequences in The Ultimates. how you feel about the new Batman story ? I hear now that Tim Drake is questioning the DNA of Bruce's son. * The opener is effective, does all it needs to. There's some criticism of it not being newcomer friendly but the same could be said of Morrison's Planet X New X-Men arc. not to repeat myself but Waid gave me a great welcoming to comics with his first FF HC, I have to continue the rest of the series. but I hope he brings it to all the stories he does. * Without giving anything away, I think you'll like the next two volumes. now with the success of Iron Man, they're naturally going to have a sequel and I'm guessing SHIELD is going to be playing a huge prescense along with War Machine, further romantic tension between Potts, Alcholism, and the Mandarin(need to make it as realistic as they did to Ras in Begins). now i hear they want to do a cameo of Thor, which I feel might get way ahead of themselves unless it's in his Donald Blake persona, so it doesn't downplay the realistic tone of Iron Man movies. * Realistic? Iron Man was so far from that. What Iron Man did was to cloak the fantastic with an exterior of realism but that's as far as it goes. Not that I wouldn't like Stark's holographic computer or the car or the rest of the tech. I'd say your list covers too much for 1 sequel. I'd say Mandarin features in the second due to the terrorist group in the first one being called The Ten Rings, it's too good a set-up not to use. plus they want to do Cap and Thor and they have that crazy date of 2011 for the Avengers, why don't they just focus on each character and take the time to make a quality movie and bring out the sequels before they make another Punisher and Elektra. * You're forgetting the $ motive. really? i read you sig you got that from that Vader lego parody thing. * Actually, it's from an Eddie Izzard sketch that's brilliant. JB -----signature----- "There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail - should we fall - we will know that we have lived." Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
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ChildOfWinds Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 5/21 10:14pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0 - Date Edited: 5/21 10:15pm (1 edits total) Edited By: ChildOfWinds
	Sheesh! Looks like the SOS EUC has turned into the comics thread! I'll try to infuse a little Luke into it! Nobody145 Yeah, the latest Legacy issue was excellent as always, even if I'm not a fan of either of the pairings that were advanced (Cade/Deliah and Sia/Antares), I don't like those pairings either. I too would prefer a Cade/Sia pairing, and I think LR would as well. C19 posted spoilers from the very latest issue of Legacy in SOS Lit, and I responded to the Luke-relevant ones. I must say that I'm not at all happy with the way things are going. Jedi Ben Hmm, have you been possessed by Darth Sidious COW? Because this is sounding very Imperial! In a galaxy of highly diverse life such as SW what matter the colour of a being? I will admit that this is rather small of me, but I am biased about Luke having only alien and no longer human descendants. It WILL bother me if all Skywalkers from here on out will no longer be human. Nobody145 I've read most of Star Wars Invincible (skimmed it mainly) and just to warn people, its better than Revelations, but... well, I won't go into spoilers, but... it disappointed me I haven't read it yet, but from the spoilers I've read, I think I'm going to HATE it!!!! Why would they kill off another Solo kid??? And Apparently Luke is dark and weird and ruthless and Emperor-like in this book. Also there are all kinds of rumors about Luke going Sith in the future and about Luke being "white eyes". Denning is adding fuel to the fire by saying that he consciously connected the "mine, mine" of Tatooine ghost with Inferno. I always hated that dark reference to Luke in TG. Now I hate it even more. I have always thought that Denning wrote Luke with a dark brush, so I was concerned about Invincible. It seems that my fears were well-founded. Sue Rostoni said something on the TOS boards about being aware that people are tired of the dark and depressing storylines and that they wanted something "lighter". But she said that the creative team wasn't ready to give that "lighter fare" yet. So it sounds like we're going to get yet another dark, depressing series. I TRULY hope they're not going to turn Luke Skywalker into a Sith Lord now. And that whole Daala as CoS is absolutely ridiculous! MasterSkywalker86 is it too early to talk about Luke in Invincible ? No, you can talk about it with spoilers here. LUke may do some impressive feats, but he seems to be cold, unemotional, strange and DARK in Invincible. I really liked Ben in Betrayal, but I didn't like the very concept of LotF, with the Skywalkers and Solos on opposite sides of the conflict, and with Jacen being made into a Sith Lord. Why would anyone think this is a great idea for a story? And you're right: Legacy of the Force probably could have been a trilogy. so can anyone tell me if Luke demonstrates his mastery of the Force and it being far above Yoda this time ? It sounds like he does impressive feats. The question is: Dark side or light side? RK_Striker_JK_5 And... what's the problem with that, Windy? If they love each other... why not? That's a good question, Striker. I don't know. I guess I really just need to say that I'm prejudiced about Luke's only descendants being aliens. Not rational and rather nasty, I know, but it's my honest, gut reaction. More another time
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 5/22 11:49am Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Well if we can post Spoilers in HL=black here then I'll do up my review of Invincible and post it here tonight sometime. -----signature----- Check out Halt Evil Doer!: The RPG setting for Super Heroes! Halt Evil Doer PDF: http://tinyurl.com/555axt
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 5/22 11:51am Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	ChildOfWinds posted: Sheesh! Looks like the SOS EUC has turned into the comics thread! I'll try to infuse a little Luke into it! It's me, Striker, Nobody and MS86 that have been posting here - what did you expect? The Spanish Inquisition? -----signature----- "There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail - should we fall - we will know that we have lived." Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 5/22 12:42pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Some general comments... Re: Bajor I think Deep Space Nine was actually fairly clear that Bajor was modelled very strongly on Afghanistan and the Cardassians were representing the Soviet Union at that time (which is really, really ironic given later events). The Bajoran resistance made the Cardassian occupation a living Hell but it wasn't actually a threat to overthrow Cardassia itself. It just was a national embarrassment back home (comparable to Vietnam and the United States). I don't read Star Trek spin-off novels but I was very fond of the fact that Gul Dukat, at the start of Deep Space Nine, actually fancied himself a moderate in the Cardassian occupation (which he actually was---scarilly enough). But I might be interested in this particular series if it sheds more light on Dukat. As I understand it, it was actually a serious point of discussion with the writers that they'd written themselves into a whole with the Marquis. Effectively, that the Cardassians were Space Nazis and the Federation was cooperating with them in destroying the Resistance to them. According to what I heard, rather than allow moral ambiguity to further fester in Star Trek, they decided to just make the Marquis in Voyager into Federation officers and wipe out the one in the Alpha Quadrant. Re: Brubaker's Captain America I always felt Brubaker pushed the envelope with Steve Rogers and that he created a Captain America who made sense. I have the entire Brubaker series and simple things like Captain America being in a sexual relationship with a woman, killing AIM agents, and being shown as lethal during WW2 made Steve Rogers a much more realistic and still admiral character. I don't like Bucky though because...well.... A Russian assassin as the new Captain America? -----signature----- Check out Halt Evil Doer!: The RPG setting for Super Heroes! Halt Evil Doer PDF: http://tinyurl.com/555axt
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 5/22 1:16pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Ah, but Bucky didn't start off that way.....he was an American assassin! -----signature----- "There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail - should we fall - we will know that we have lived." Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 5/22 1:49pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Some Luke content in regard to Invincible, non-spoiler impressions gleamed from numerous posts: On Luke: Has anyone considered that to deal with galactic problems like an interstellar war you have to be quite cold about it? Earlier in this series people were damning Luke for caring about Ben's welfare over killing Jacen, now he's sorting the galaxy out he's damned for not being emotive enough about it? If the realism agenda is to go to its logical conclusion, then being a commander in war does require a measure of detachment. This was Ackbar's point in DW, it's terrible about the refugees but if we don't defeat the Vong they're dead anyway and it was only when the NR actually starting fighting a war with all the viciousness it entails that they turned the tide against the Vong. (Yes, you can say that some of this was down to WJW's fix it remit too.) There are times when Luke has made decisive decisions which meant death: He deestroyed the Death Star, he was perfectly willing to distract the Emperor and Vader for the Alliance to destroy DS2 with him on if need be, he turned Palpatine's Force Storm against him, destroyed the Sun Crusher which took the Death Star Prototype with it, didn't see anything wrong with sabotaging or later destroying Centrepoint, executed Shimmraa which broke the fighting spirit of the Vong. It may well be Invinvible takes it to a new level but if you've been demanding Luke acts to deal with all the chaos then it's a bit off to complain about it when he does. On DR and limits: It's strange but give DR a wide-open canvas and they go right off the rails, in contrast their best work has been done in those areas where they face significant limitations. In 2001 the same company produced both SBS, a book that showcased every aspect of NJO from the wonderful to the appalling and COD, arguably one of the best PT books going. Fans who have despaired of their late era EU work still remain interested by the other products like the upcoming Corusant Nights novels. So, while I don't see an 86 year gap as being insignificant nor a real barrier, I don't mind DR being limited in such a way either given how they seem to work much better under them. -----signature----- "There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail - should we fall - we will know that we have lived." Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
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RK_Striker_JK_5 Registered: Jul '03	Date Posted: 5/22 3:04pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Charlemagne19: Spiderman, Daredevil, and the X-men are infamous for how utterly miserable their characters tend to be because of the burden of their destinies. That's one thing I never liked about Peter. My god, he could wangst about anything! Hell, even when he had reason to angst, he'd all of a sudden think, "My god, Flash Thompson stubbed his toe! How can I be such a bastard to be worrying about Doc Ock trying to kill me when Flash has a sore toe?" Dude, with great power came great responsibility, not great bellyaching! While the Justice League is arguably more serious storytelling. After Batman: The Animated Series, I'd have to say my favorite of the series is the Teen Titans show. Mostly, because I can't help but absolutely love Raven to death. I like Raven, too. Well if we can post Spoilers in HL=black here then I'll do up my review of Invincible and post it here tonight sometime. Already did mine, although I based mine off of spoilers I read in the lit thread. The Bajoran resistance made the Cardassian occupation a living Hell but it wasn't actually a threat to overthrow Cardassia itself. It just was a national embarrassment back home (comparable to Vietnam and the United States). Sounds about right to me. Grumblings back home, but about it. Nothing much beyond the sector-or even the system itself. I don't read Star Trek spin-off novels but I was very fond of the fact that Gul Dukat, at the start of Deep Space Nine, actually fancied himself a moderate in the Cardassian occupation (which he actually was---scarilly enough). But I might be interested in this particular series if it sheds more light on Dukat. Read it, Charles. It's a great series. And yeah, it sheds light on our favorite Cardassian with the messiah complex. MasterSkywalker86: There you go my friend, you do what you can when you can. when I moved to the house I take care of the cable/phone/internet bill, so i'm not going to be living rent either. Yeah. There's no stigma with us, at least. We're not lazy slackers. We have to live 'at home' to survive. me too, heck the Batman Animated series was probably my encyclopedia to all things Batman. Sadly there are few stories of Batman I can get into in the comic universe. I don't know too much about Batman comic stories beyond 'The Killing Joke' and a few others. Shrug But I know they rewrote Mister Freeze to coincide with his DCAU origins. u won't be disappointed. by the way did u like the spider-man movie ? Spidey 3? If so, too crowded for me. Venom, Sandman and Norman? Cut out the Sandman, at least. And that walk thing Peter did... yeesh! quick lets all head to hoth, the wampas are more hospitable. At this point, not too bad of a suggestion. How many times has Kashyyyk burned, now? I haven't seen that in TFA, in Beast Wars I'll agree with you with depth. but give Spectacular Spider-man a chance there is much going on. I will. And TFA is just good to me, you know? Saying something isn't as good as Beast Wars isn't saying it's bad, IMHO. really i thought he was a new character. Nope. But don't worry. He's hard to miss, usually being a corpse and all. and yet they killed him off, like two sport cars were too many sport cars in the movie... And he was the coolest one in it, too. Ah, well. Animated Jazz makes up for it. not to the extent of TFA, there was a bit more adult wit in the jokes of Beast Wars. "Oh, sure. Don't mind Waspinator. Waspinator lie here and suffer. Drag himself to CR chamber..." Although yes, the humor in BW could be a lot more risque than in TFA. wonder if they'll bring Arcee and some more notable Autobots, Ultra Magnus, perhaps Hot Rod, who would u like to see ? Arcee was supposed to be in the movie until they decided to go with Ironhide, IIRC. And the decision was made pretty late in the process. So her, definitely. true, hey in the comic series do they follow the events of the 1984 movie, i was disappointed that they killed off so many memorial autobots in one sitting, it's like they want to purposely to destroy my childhood. In the Marvel comics, at least, the death toll was far higher. Although with Transformers, at least, there is the need to sell toys. and they acknoweledde the high death count in the 1986 movie was something of a mistake, IIRC. when should i flush the toilet ? LOL, go right ahead. No more SW for me, with the exception of Legacy TPBs. for the Hard Traveling heroes are you talking about the controversial Green Lantern and Green Arrow series ? where they dealt with real life injustices with Hal being the conservative and Ollie being the brash one ? That sounds familiar. Ollie and Hal, toruing the USA. while mostly DC heroes are heroic from the get go, their powers are mostly blessings while Marvel's are mostly freak accidents. And the DC heroes don't angst nearly as much, either. Of course, their populace holds 'Superman Day' while the Marvel populace tries to lynch them on occasion... Jedi Ben: I got the book! Now to read it... * But...but...we cannot have unresolved pots, it must be fixed - oops, overdosed on SW EU method. lol, bad Ben! No, I don't need to know there. Gar is dead and that;s that. * I'm wondering if the series has the nerve to reveal the resistance as being nothing on the big stage, that it had impact for the Bajorans it helped but was never a serious threat to Cardassia, that post-occupation it is effectively a reassuring myth. Well, that's how I always felt it was. No way the Bajorans would've been able to do much outside the sector with so few warp-capable ships. More of an embarrassment and resource drain than anything, more trouble than its worth. But no way they'd storm Cardassis itself. * It's a line by Nietzsche: When you stare into the abyss the abyss stares back at you. Thanks. Yeah, that's it. It's me, Striker, Nobody and MS86 that have been posting here - what did you expect? The Spanish Inquisition? Sigh Someone's gotta do it... NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!!!!!!! Forces Ben to sit in... the Comfy Chair! ChildOfWinds: Sheesh! Looks like the SOS EUC has turned into the comics thread! I'll try to infuse a little Luke into it! Welcome back, Windy. Why would they kill off another Solo kid??? Do you... really want me to answer that, Windy? Sue Rostoni said something on the TOS boards about being aware that people are tired of the dark and depressing storylines and that they wanted something "lighter". But she said that the creative team wasn't ready to give that "lighter fare" yet. Then get a new creative team, then. Thsi direction sucks like a black hole. 31 books of bleakness isn't enough? Horse hockey! That's a good question, Striker. I don't know. I guess I really just need to say that I'm prejudiced about Luke's only descendants being aliens. Not rational and rather nasty, I know, but it's my honest, gut reaction. Ah... I didn't say nasty. it's your feeling on it, Windy. May not agree with it, but it's your right not to want him with Blue. -----signature----- E-married to the wonderful DarthIshtar. Now also her Padawan. Member of the Y.J.K. Revolution Staring into the Darkness http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/27537567/p1/?23
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 5/22 3:13pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	The Comfy Chair?! Ok, yeah, bring it on, yeah, cushions too! Say, weren't you supposed to go out and come in again? -----signature----- "There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail - should we fall - we will know that we have lived." Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
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MasterSkywalker86 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 5/22 3:29pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	QUICK BRING THE RACK!!!! -----signature----- " The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."-Darth Vader "Anakin wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that."- George Lucas
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 5/22 4:13pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Oh, I'd like to recommend Indiana Jones and The Crystal Skull. (Potential Spoilers---I'll avoid the major plot points) Indiana Jones holds the position as the 2nd best of the Indiana Jones movies, replacing the Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade as the holder of 2nd best after Raiders of the Lost Ark. I went to see it today and I have nothing but high praise for the movie and some piddling complaints. The obvious question of "Is Harrison Ford too old to be Indiana Jones?" The answer is, unfortunately, yes. Harrison shows his age in the movie and it does make several of the fight scenes unconvincing even with the help of Shia Labeouf to carry out some of the legwork. However, the stunts are still elaborately presented and the fact that Harrison Ford is 62 (my mother's age where she can barely walk) and yet is able to sell the Area 51 Fight Sequence plus all the dramatic work, makes the fight sequences that do fail seem to be just small potatoes. Shia Labeouf manages to convincingly play the role of Indiana's sidekick and actually does what none of the other sidekicks but Sallah was able to do in that I actually want to see more of him in the future (and almost certainly will see him given what we learn about "Mutt" Williams). Mutt William's character actually manages two genuinely entertaining stunt fights in the film up with traditional Indiana Jones fair; a motorcyle ride/chase sequence through Marshall College (which I attend) and a sword fight where he holds his own against the Stalinist Colonel Spalko. The movie, unfortunately, moves away from Judeo-Christian mysticism like the Temple of Doom and instead does 1950s Science Fiction with the theories about the Crystal Skull/The Pyramids/Aztec connection/Aliens/Roswell. This isn't much of a spoiler since its revealed in the first part of the film but manages to make it convincing enough that I don't feel incredibly cheated. Cate Blanchett plays the role of Colonel Spalko well enough that we don't really notice the substitution of Russians for Nazis without difficulty. George is smart enough to put lip service to the Red Scare and thus the complex role of US-Soviet relations is not made a simple case of Good-Bad even as the villains are suitably cartoon-evil. She manages to be sexy and yet kid-friendly horrible at the same time. I'm pleased to say that while the movie can't match Raiders of the Lost Ark (which was totally unexpected and new at the time), the film manages to stay at an entertainment level to the other Indiana Jones pastiches of our time in the Mummy films. It's rather shocking that while Jacen Solo is committing atrocities and Revenge of the Sith is slaughtering younglings while engaging in spouse abuse, George actually hasn't lost the ability to tell a family-friendly kids drama. Likewise, I'd thought Stephen Spielberg had forgotten how to do family movies. The movie genuinely manages to surprise you in several places with at least a few action sequences actually throwing me for a loop (Indiana Jones vs. the Atomic Bomb will go down in my most remembered sequences for his solution). The violence is cartoonish at times as its clear our heroes are as indestructible as Wily Coyote towards the end, but I don't think that's a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination. So, Bravo George, you've regained your lost credibility with me. 8/10 -----signature----- Check out Halt Evil Doer!: The RPG setting for Super Heroes! Halt Evil Doer PDF: http://tinyurl.com/555axt
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