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Author	Topic: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
Rouge77 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 7/11 3:26pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0 - Date Edited: 7/11 3:27pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Rouge77
	ChildOfWinds posted: So he couldn't get the Jedi to do his bidding so now Cade is using a 4,000 year old woman to give him a hand? Celeste is actually about 4100 years old by the time she meets Cade, to be exact. -----signature----- Recipient of the Confederation Ewok with "Rebel Yub"® Action!! Kill Ben Skywalker
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Rouge77 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 7/11 3:31pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0 - Date Edited: 7/11 3:32pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Rouge77
	Jedi Ben posted: * Suspended animation. Can give you more details if you wish. I thought that the oubliette stopped Celeste from aging, and that she was conscious for the whole time? And she is awake at least from the Vector issues until the Rebellion issues, over 20 years. The Talisman itself might stop Celeste from aging now. (I wonder if she would get free of the Talisman, would she then met one of those grissly quick aging things that sci-fi stories so often show to us? ) -----signature----- Recipient of the Confederation Ewok with "Rebel Yub"® Action!! Kill Ben Skywalker
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Nobody145 Registered: Feb '07	Date Posted: 7/11 4:56pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	It could simply be the Talisman slowing or stopping Celeste's aging. The Talisman was meant to give Muur's spirit a new body, and Muur would probably want that body to stay in good shape for as long as possible. Though if she ever gets free of it, I hope she won't simply just turn to dust, though that depends on whether the Talisman was the only thing keeping her body together or was just slowing down her aging. I've read DS9: Fearful Symmetry, but honestly... I just don't give a dman about the DS9 relaunch storyline anymore. When was the last book in the stupid series?! Star Trek TNG had two, three books come out somewhat close to each other, Q&A, those two Borg books (though I thought Before Dishonor was stupid, despite the writer usually writing good stuff), with more on the way, but I vaguely remember something called Warpath and... that's it. And there's no sign of a continuation anytime soon. Not to mention the DS9 relaunch has at least two, three major storylines or crisises to still deal with (the current Kira/Mirror Universe one, with FS introducing another problem), Odo's problem with the Dominion, and that still very mysterious and powerful race in the Gamme Quadrant. When Unity came, I thought they had a nice momentum going, but that's pretty much all gone by now. I've really got to get around to reading that Terek Nor trilogy though, maybe something more self-contained will restore some of my interest in Star Trek books. Unfortunately, I've mostly given up on IDW Transformers too. There are still occasional good issues, but I'm kind of annoyed that they now have that Decepticon series, with still not many or any answers about the Dead Universe or most things related to it. And now the Decepticons are invading earth. Call me when something interesting happens. And assuming Wikipedia is accurate, there isn't a Revelation miniseries anymore now, but now its instead just spread out across only four Spotlights? They were finally going to give some answers and then they cancelled it?! Although a good old Autobots vs. Decepticon fight might be nice for once. Both Dreamwave and IDW had some of that, but also had a lot of that "big ominous threat in the background but won't actually give any answers for years" thing going, its just that Dreamwave collapsed before it could get too far past laying down the hints and such. And this is after wasting so much time with Devestation?! I know stories (TV shows, comics, novels, etc.) all like to have mysteries, but I guess I'm just fed up with years of "mysterious" stuff with no answers. And while focusing on Decepticons as characters is nice and all, whatever happened to the simple idea that, oh, I don't know, that Autobots were supposed to be the good guys? I miss those days. Nowadays, its more like the Decepticons are evil, the mysterious evil is more evil and dangerous, and the Autobots are busy playing catch-up the whole time. I don't actually mind the Legacy-era Jedi Council rejecting Cade's plan, as its not like Cade's exactly a completely dependable person right now either. He might be telling the truth as far as he sees it, but he might just be wrong too. Kill Krayt might cause a Sith civil war, but it would also still leave a huge Imperial fleet, and even if Roan Fel reclaims control of the Empire, that then makes Fel a major problem for the Jedi. So the Jedi are just going to quietly rebuild their numbers until they have their own army, then the war will really heat up again. And I don't mind Cade trying to use Celeste in his attempt to assasinate Krayt. It makes sense, considering Cade's personality. Anyway, Cade's also teamed up with the Imperial Knights to form his "Krayt kill squad", though I'm curious how many IKs are along for the ride (I don't see Draco letting Sia go on such a dangerous mission). Although I don't remember if the issue said Cade or the IKs were for allying with Celeste, the issue summary only said that there was a bit of a disagreement on having a possibly possessed millenia Jedi Knight on their team. I don't mind Denning writing Luke that much, at least Denning's Luke is a really impressive Grandmaster. And during SbS, they had some nice Luke and Mara moments. Of course, we can't even have that anymore, what with Mara gone and all. And yeah, looks like the Covenant isn't just misguided, but there's a secretly evil person in charge and all. And I really do hope Zayne's name gets cleared sometime. He's heading for Coruscant in the comics now I think. One of Zayne's major problems has been that most of this has been happening away from the eyes of the Jedi Council. If Zayne could get to them, make his case in public, he should stand a decent chance of proving his innocence. Instead, he's been chased by his former Masters around that part of the galaxy. In open Council or court, at least Zayne wouldn't just be cut down, and he could testify. Even if Zayne will probably still have to work against his reputation of incompetence, but I think Zayne's grown out of that phase. I think. And yeah, just been too busy to post. Although there also haven't been all that much new Star Wars things recently. The last new Star Wars comics was in June, and no new comics until at least the 23rd. -----signature----- Don't mind me, I'm nobody important.
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 7/12 1:30am Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Well, the oubliette certainly suspends some natural processes, but as to which ones.... Nobody, I've read DS9: Fearful Symmetry, but honestly... I just don't give a dman about the DS9 relaunch storyline anymore. When was the last book in the stupid series?! Star Trek TNG had two, three books come out somewhat close to each other, Q&A, those two Borg books (though I thought Before Dishonor was stupid, despite the writer usually writing good stuff), with more on the way, but I vaguely remember something called Warpath and... that's it. * Given that there was a change of author for Fearful Symmetry I would say the relaunch hit major trouble, as instead of being able to plan out future books, the editors had to sort out the mess created by the first author not doing the job. In contrast TNG is at the start of its relaunch, the works would have been lined up and everyone turned their work in on time. And there's no sign of a continuation anytime soon. Not to mention the DS9 relaunch has at least two, three major storylines or crisises to still deal with (the current Kira/Mirror Universe one, with FS introducing another problem), Odo's problem with the Dominion, and that still very mysterious and powerful race in the Gamme Quadrant. * This is the major problem: That they've a lot of good material that's been neglected and is in need of attention. When Unity came, I thought they had a nice momentum going, but that's pretty much all gone by now. I've really got to get around to reading that Terek Nor trilogy though, maybe something more self-contained will restore some of my interest in Star Trek books. * Can recommend you books 1&2, have yet to get around to the final one but suspect it'll be great. Unfortunately, I've mostly given up on IDW Transformers too. There are still occasional good issues, but I'm kind of annoyed that they now have that Decepticon series, with still not many or any answers about the Dead Universe or most things related to it. * The 4 Revelations Spotlights should deal with this. And now the Decepticons are invading earth. Call me when something interesting happens. And assuming Wikipedia is accurate, there isn't a Revelation miniseries anymore now, but now its instead just spread out across only four Spotlights? They were finally going to give some answers and then they cancelled it?! * No, they shortened it to 4 issues and did via Spotlights. I'm a bit irritated by this, as it seems there's been some office politics at IDW, on the plus side there'll be a 5-issue Maximum Dinobots by Furman and Roche. Although a good old Autobots vs. Decepticon fight might be nice for once. Both Dreamwave and IDW had some of that, but also had a lot of that "big ominous threat in the background but won't actually give any answers for years" thing going, its just that Dreamwave collapsed before it could get too far past laying down the hints and such. And this is after wasting so much time with Devestation?! I know stories (TV shows, comics, novels, etc.) all like to have mysteries, but I guess I'm just fed up with years of "mysterious" stuff with no answers. * I'll keep you posted on the finale for Furman's arc then. And while focusing on Decepticons as characters is nice and all, whatever happened to the simple idea that, oh, I don't know, that Autobots were supposed to be the good guys? I miss those days. * How are the Autobots not the good guys in IDW? They're dealing with multiple adversaries and holding their own. Nowadays, its more like the Decepticons are evil, the mysterious evil is more evil and dangerous, and the Autobots are busy playing catch-up the whole time. * That's pretty much always been a theme of Furman's though: the humans always attack the Autobots, it's why I'm inclined to give All Hail Megatron a try despite reservations - just to watch humanity get its arse kicked for forever attacking the good guys. -----signature----- "There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail - should we fall - we will know that we have lived." Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
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Nobody145 Registered: Feb '07	Date Posted: 7/12 1:59am Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Well, I'm probably exaggerating how the Autobots don't seem as good as they used to, like with how Omega Supreme locked up that gestalt team and then Optimus Prime condemened him for it. Personally, I think Omega had the right idea. And while a past Cybertronian Golden Age pops up in many Transformers continuities, here, the official history is that Megatron wrecked that, but after that Megatron Origins thing, not to mention the Dead Universe villain being Nemesis Prime, the Autobots don't seem as good anymore. Optimus and his crew are still fine, its just that not sure I like the idea of them framing Megatron's revolt as almost right. Well, maybe not that much, but I guess I just liked Dreamwave's protrayal of Megatron as just megalomaniacal from the start. Although I almost like the Megatron vs. Starscream relationship. In Dreamwave, Starscream just kept looking like an idiot. Not to mention the Autobots aren't so much holding their own, but its more that their enemeies are either busy with other things, or the bad guys just aren't bothering to kill them yet in the case of the Dead Universe crew. We have the Decepticons of course, and the Autobots couldn't really do anything against Sixshot, and Sixshot left to help Megatron, otherwise... it wasn't going well for the Autobots. Thunderwing mainly went down because of a flaw in the ultra-energon. In Escalation, the Decepticons took hits, but just wouldn't go down which was annoying (and at that point, it seemed like finding fascimiles might be important, but now it seems more like the 'cons will just invade earth outright, not that there'll be much resistance). The Machination kidnapped Sunstreaker, with no real resolution to that, except that possibly they don't have access to Sunstreaker's brain anymore, but still plenty of Headmasters. Monstructor was easily taking on Omega Supreme, and Optimus' attack did little to no damage, and now they're gone too. And that's not even counting all the other minor sub-plots (Soundwave, Grimlock, Shockwave, Banzaitron, etc.). Although the Dinobos series will probaly cover a lot, I'm just still disappointed Revelations ended up spread across four Spotlights instead of as a proper mini-series. I'll probably still follow the Revelation spotlights, but not sure how much else I can keep spending money on. I didn't get that All Hail Megatron thing, as I already bought that Focus on Decepticons thing a few months earlier, and that already had a preview. Although its kind of fun to see human forces just swatted aside like that. Its kinda nice to not see the humans attacking Autobots and winning, only due to the Autobots holding back. Though I'm still slightly annoyed that the Machination kidnapped an Autobot instead of a Decepticon, since of course the Autobots don't have enough trouble to deal with already. And after all of that, the Autobots just leave due to a bigger crisis due to Optimus ignoring Omega's advice. Here's hoping the TNG books at least make up for the lack of DS9 books. -----signature----- Don't mind me, I'm nobody important.
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ChildOfWinds Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 7/12 8:52pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Jedi Ben * Suspended animation. Can give you more details if you wish. Well if SHE can be in suspended animation then why couldn't Luke have made it to Legacy that way? And Ben should be alive in Legacy without needing to be in Suspended animation. I wonder what happened to him? * A 4,000 year old Jedi who is fighting Sith possession courtesy of the Muur Talisman. I don't think I'm going to like Vector much from the sound of this. BUt the Jedi viewpoint isn't necessarily wrong here for consider: The thing is though, at the beginning of this series we were led to believe that the Jedi needed Cade, needed a Skywalker to lead them. Now, when a Skywalker comes to them with an idea (and I agree that it may not be the best idea out there), they don't seem to want him very much. * The Jedi have limited resources and are unable to defeat the Sith in open war. Which is truly sad since Luke had spent his lifetime building up the Order only to have it decimated in a day. As I said in the Lit SOS thread, the Order always seems to be in rebuilding mode. They can never do what Jedi are supposed to do because they always have to keep starting over it seems. * I also quite like the idea that this time the galaxy has screwed itself over so utterly as to render the Jedi unable to help it, that unlike numerous previous occasions where the Jedi have saved the galaxy and hoped it would grow up, only for it to screw up and demand help which they then give, this time it's gone way too far and a lesson needs to be learned. I too like the idea of the galaxy needing to be taught a lesson, but I have to say that it saddens and disappoints me that the galaxy has come to this terrible point. As I keep saying, I think it's awful that Luke, Leia, and Han failed in their goal to make the galaxy a better place for their children, grandchildren, and all the children and grandchildren of their peers. As Yoda once said, "Now things are worse." The OT characters left no lasting legacy. It's almost like they never existed. Their efforts were for nothing. * Given the covers of 33 and 34 - it looks to be Haazen. AH! And that will be great if Zayne doesn't have to be on the run anymore. I truly hope that Zayne is one character that will never be made into a Sith! I want him to always remain good. RK_Striker_JK_5 : Denning didn't get a lot of stuff about SW. RE: Star By Str, the DNT, Tatooine Ghost... SO true! ... Am I the only person who liked the JAT for what it was, and not in comparison to the Trilogy of Suck? It is certainly way above anything Del Rey has put out. It wasn't one of my favorite stories, probably because Luke spent most of one book in a coma, but it wasn't one of my least favorites either. I've heard the theory of 'pet characters' used, but thats OOU, not IU. And it's a poor excuse nonetheless. It's a very poor excuse. The YJK. I read those before the Thrawn Trilogy... before finishing the OT. Without those, I wouldn't be on these boards... or possibly alive. I'm glad that you are! Real Life's been busy, sorry. Igot a promotion at work CONGRATULATIONS! , Striker!!!! That's WONDERFUL news!!! Nobody145 : I don't actually mind the Legacy-era Jedi Council rejecting Cade's plan, as its not like Cade's exactly a completely dependable person right now either. That's for sure! but it would also still leave a huge Imperial fleet, and even if Roan Fel reclaims control of the Empire, that then makes Fel a major problem for the Jedi. So the Jedi are just going to quietly rebuild their numbers until they have their own army, then the war will really heat up again. As I said, I HATE it that the Jedi have to keep rebuilding their numbers. Luke spent his whole life trying to create a flourishing Order and less than 100 years after LotF, at least half of the Order is destroyed in a day! And I don't really like the idea of the Jedi being an army. Anyway, Cade's also teamed up with the Imperial Knights to form his "Krayt kill squad", though I'm curious how many IKs are along for the ride (I don't see Draco letting Sia go on such a dangerous mission). How many Imperial knights are there now? SOmeone said there might be only 7. Is that so? , the issue summary only said that there was a bit of a disagreement on having a possibly possessed millenia Jedi Knight on their team. I can't tell you how silly it sounds to have a "millenia Jedi knight"! Whose idea was this anyway? I don't mind Denning writing Luke that much, at least Denning's Luke is a really impressive Grandmaster. But he also writes Luke sort of dark...all the time. He forgets about the Farmboy and just writes a rather "cold" Jedi Master. And during SbS, they had some nice Luke and Mara moments. Plus the TERRIBLE one where Mara screamed at Luke and took over the Jedi for him when Anakin died because she was afraid Ben would be affected by Luke's grief. SHEESH! Luke was half a galaxy away! Aunt Leia was screaming and having a meltdown in the same building with him. If that didn't affect him, Luke's gried wouldn't either. we can't even have that anymore, what with Mara gone and all. And the last book with the two of them, Sacrifice, had no good scenes between them at all. Luke spent the book snoring! I really do hope Zayne's name gets cleared sometime. So do I!
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 7/13 4:00am Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	COW, Well if SHE can be in suspended animation then why couldn't Luke have made it to Legacy that way? * Luke would never use it, it was a Sith Device, quite a nasty one. The only reason Zayne put her in it was to prevent the Rakghoul plague going galactic, as it's the Muur Talisman that drives it. And Ben should be alive in Legacy without needing to be in Suspended animation. I wonder what happened to him? * Oh, DR probably killed him. Ok, yes, a bad one-liner.... I don't think I'm going to like Vector much from the sound of this. * So far Vector has been very good in two respects: 1. It's drawn DHC's SW titles into a cohesive whole and linked each tale to the previous arcs of each title in a way that invites, but does not require, them to be read. 2. Morne is a tragic hero in it, she was lied to by the Covenant but keeps trying to do the right thing despite the hell she is enveloped by. The thing is though, at the beginning of this series we were led to believe that the Jedi needed Cade, needed a Skywalker to lead them. Now, when a Skywalker comes to them with an idea (and I agree that it may not be the best idea out there), they don't seem to want him very much. * It was Wolf's view that they needed a Skywalker to lead them, it doesn't follow from that that they will uncritically follow any idea proposed by one. Which is truly sad since Luke had spent his lifetime building up the Order only to have it decimated in a day. As I said in the Lit SOS thread, the Order always seems to be in rebuilding mode. They can never do what Jedi are supposed to do because they always have to keep starting over it seems. * Another way of looking at it is the galaxy does not want Jedi doing what they should because it'll prevent too many people with nefarious agendas doing what they want. I too like the idea of the galaxy needing to be taught a lesson, but I have to say that it saddens and disappoints me that the galaxy has come to this terrible point. * Oh, it's me being quite hard on the GFFA but given the past record.... As I keep saying, I think it's awful that Luke, Leia, and Han failed in their goal to make the galaxy a better place for their children, grandchildren, and all the children and grandchildren of their peers. * They really can't do much if quite a few of their successors screw it all up, wouldn't be the first time the kids simply piss away their inheritance and then moan about not having anything. As Yoda once said, "Now things are worse." The OT characters left no lasting legacy. It's almost like they never existed. Their efforts were for nothing. * Most of the time you're intelligent enough not to come out with rubbish like this, you know? And that will be great if Zayne doesn't have to be on the run anymore. I truly hope that Zayne is one character that will never be made into a Sith! I want him to always remain good. * I really don't see that happening to be honest. JB -----signature----- "There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail - should we fall - we will know that we have lived." Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
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ChildOfWinds Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 7/13 12:42pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Jedi Ben : * Luke would never use it, it was a Sith Device, quite a nasty one. If it was a Sith device, you're right: I wouldn't want Luke to use it. Aren't there other ways of going into suspended animation without it being darkside? * Oh, DR probably killed him. Ok, yes, a bad one-liner.... Unfortunately, they probably did as soon as he fathered a child. I was REALLY hoping he would be in the Hidden Temple when I heard that there was one. * It was Wolf's view that they needed a Skywalker to lead them, I wish Wolf would have been the Jedi leader in the Legacy timeframe instead of 2 OJO Jedi. * Another way of looking at it is the galaxy does not want Jedi doing what they should because it'll prevent too many people with nefarious agendas doing what they want. Either way, Luke wasted his time. * They really can't do much if quite a few of their successors screw it all up, wouldn't be the first time the kids simply piss away their inheritance and then moan about not having anything. Kol didn't seem like the kind who would mess up his "inheritance". As Yoda once said, "Now things are worse." The OT characters left no lasting legacy. It's almost like they never existed. Their efforts were for nothing. * Most of the time you're intelligent enough not to come out with rubbish like this, you know? How is the truth "rubbish"??? Looking at Legacy, the galaxy is in worse shape than it ever was. The GA is but a remnant while the Empire is once again in control. The Jedi have been decimated and are in hiding. They have to rebuild again to be effective. So where is their lasting legacy??? Their efforts were for nothing. Things are in even worse shape so their efforts didn't accomplish anything. * I really don't see that happening to be honest. What don't you see happening? Zayne becoming a Sith or Zayne remaining forever good?
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 7/13 3:22pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0 - Date Edited: 7/13 3:29pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Jedi Ben
	COW, How is the truth "rubbish"??? Looking at Legacy, the galaxy is in worse shape than it ever was. The GA is but a remnant while the Empire is once again in control. The Jedi have been decimated and are in hiding. They have to rebuild again to be effective. So where is their lasting legacy??? Their efforts were for nothing. Things are in even worse shape so their efforts didn't accomplish anything. * Truth? Truth is to quote Keynes: "In the long run, we're all dead." * Since that's the truth, let's give up now, shall we? Just say: &^^% it and go home? Because chances are nothing you or I do will matter in 100 years, so why bother? Fact is, I know you read and enjoyed Death Star - so you know full well just how major that victory was, how much was really at stake but reading your post, it has to be asked: Why &^%$ing bother? It don't matter in the long run right? It doesn't matter that by their defeating of the Emperor and the Empire billions of lives were saved, that of those billions, many would have gone on to have families and descendants who only live due the actions od Luke Skywalker. * You want a lasting legacy? Look to those people, not to galactic politics! EDIT: Not that I'm not still hacked off with what your outlook leads to but in regard to your other Qs: If it was a Sith device, you're right: I wouldn't want Luke to use it. Aren't there other ways of going into suspended animation without it being darkside? * Probably not, SW tech is way past the point of using it and it wasn't exactly suspended animation, was a torture device. Either way, Luke wasted his time. * No, he never did, he did the best he could and saved billions, if not trillions the idea that he was lacking somehow is ludicrous. Kol didn't seem like the kind who would mess up his "inheritance". * 1 good man can only do so much to prevent the damage caused by a multitude of the bad. -----signature----- "There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail - should we fall - we will know that we have lived." Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
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ChildOfWinds Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 7/13 8:37pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Jedi Ben : * Truth? Truth is to quote Keynes: "In the long run, we're all dead." But this is a fictional universe, JB. We should get to see some happy endings, some victories, and some major accomplishments, and some lasting legacies for the heroes. Not more decimated Jedi Orders and the Democratic/republican government barely hanging on. * It doesn't matter that by their defeating of the Emperor and the Empire billions of lives were saved, that of those billions, many would have gone on to have families and descendants who only live due the actions od Luke Skywalker. Okay! Okay! You're right! That DOES matter! Unfortunately, with the constant warfare that we keep getting, most of those people and their descendants were probably killed off in a later war, you know. Okay, I'm being a pest. But, JB, I'm just so sick of the constant galactic wars in SW. I'm so sick of the Jedi Order always being purged or greatly decimated. And now with the most important Legacy Jedi being prequel Jedi, that's annoying me as well. (And I don't seem to be the only one unhappy about this.) * Probably not, SW tech is way past the point of using it and it wasn't exactly suspended animation, was a torture device. NOw that sounds really nasty! However, wasn't K'Kruhk supposed to be in suspended animation too? Was he also in a torture device? * No, he never did, he did the best he could and saved billions, if not trillions the idea that he was lacking somehow is ludicrous. Luke's not lacking. But the way in which the future of SW is being written, Luke seems less and less important in the grand scheme of things.
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 7/14 2:30am Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	But this is a fictional universe, JB. We should get to see some happy endings, some victories, and some major accomplishments, and some lasting legacies for the heroes. Not more decimated Jedi Orders and the Democratic/republican government barely hanging on. * The legacies exist, they just aren't where you think they are. The NR proved itself to be suicidal in the Vong War after all. Okay! Okay! You're right! That DOES matter! Unfortunately, with the constant warfare that we keep getting, most of those people and their descendants were probably killed off in a later war, you know. * Not so, unless numerous planets get carpet-bombed - it's a big, big galaxy, contrary to how it's presented. Okay, I'm being a pest. But, JB, I'm just so sick of the constant galactic wars in SW. I'm so sick of the Jedi Order always being purged or greatly decimated. * I would say the problem is the inability of DR to mix wars with heroic activity. There are some 8 wars in the course of Babylon 5 yet it does not become depressing due to both how they happen and the heroes response to them. However, wasn't K'Kruhk supposed to be in suspended animation too? Was he also in a torture device? * We don't know the details of that, do we? It may have been a Force trance, Kyp went into one after he destroyed the Sun Crusher. Luke's not lacking. But the way in which the future of SW is being written, Luke seems less and less important in the grand scheme of things. * But I don't think Luke would see that as a problem, his time came and went. -----signature----- "There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail - should we fall - we will know that we have lived." Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
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ChildOfWinds Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 7/14 2:17pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0 - Date Edited: 7/14 2:18pm (1 edits total) Edited By: ChildOfWinds
	Jedi Ben : * The legacies exist, they just aren't where you think they are. So what do you think the Legacies are? * Not so, unless numerous planets get carpet-bombed - it's a big, big galaxy, contrary to how it's presented. As I'm reading the Black Fleet Crisis right now, it occurs to me how much LARGER the galaxy seemed and was presented in that series as opposed to what we've been getting lately, especially in the DN trilogy and LotF. * I would say the problem is the inability of DR to mix wars with heroic activity. I do agree with that. DR keeps giving us dark and pessimistic and depressing, and the villains usually victorious. We rarely get to see the heroes being heoric and/or successful in much of anything. Luke's not lacking. But the way in which the future of SW is being written, Luke seems less and less important in the grand scheme of things. * But I don't think Luke would see that as a problem, his time came and went. But I see that as a huge problem, JB! As one who has read about him in so many books for so many years, I hate seeing this iconic character further and further diminished. I'm not left with a feeling of satisfaction about the story. I'm left with a feeling of unfairness. The fairytale should have a happy ending, not end on a downer...
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 7/14 2:39pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	So what do you think the Legacies are? * All those people who would, if not for Luke, be living. As I'm reading the Black Fleet Crisis right now, it occurs to me how much LARGER the galaxy seemed and was presented in that series as opposed to what we've been getting lately, especially in the DN trilogy and LotF. * The sad thing is, it shouldn't really narrow - galaxies are truly massive things. I do agree with that. DR keeps giving us dark and pessimistic and depressing, and the villains usually victorious. We rarely get to see the heroes being heoric and/or successful in much of anything. * Yet if you did, you wouldn't be depressed by the war or trouble they are entangled in. But I see that as a huge problem, JB! * In that case, it's your problem and not Luke's, isn't it? As one who has read about him in so many books for so many years, I hate seeing this iconic character further and further diminished. I'm not left with a feeling of satisfaction about the story. I'm left with a feeling of unfairness. The fairytale should have a happy ending, not end on a downer... * I don't think you ever really get a truly happy ending, for they're edged with sadness because it is the end but, most of the time, the characters get what they earn. Often that reward is peace in their time, not for all time. That's so in Feist and Brooks and it's arguably the best you'll get in a serial story. (Also, SW isn't a fairytale - which in their original form are quite vicious tales - it's a space opera.) -----signature----- "There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail - should we fall - we will know that we have lived." Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
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ChildOfWinds Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 7/15 1:29pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Jedi Ben So what do you think the Legacies are? * All those people who would, if not for Luke, be living. Don't you mean that they would be DEAD if not for Luke? And I can agree with that. They're a rather hidden Legacy, but a Legacy none-the-less. I wanted Luke's legacy to be a large and flourishing Jedi Order and a descendant that I could really like though. * The sad thing is, it shouldn't really narrow - galaxies are truly massive things. Exactly, but the authors aren't writing it that way anymore. * Yet if you did, you wouldn't be depressed by the war or trouble they are entangled in. You're right. Del Rey continues to make a huge mistake by NOT showing the heroes as victorious more often. We as readers need more satisfaction, not more depression. * In that case, it's your problem and not Luke's, isn't it? But since I'm the one who's real, I'm more important than Luke. * I don't think you ever really get a truly happy ending, for they're edged with sadness because it is the end but, most of the time, the characters get what they earn. Often that reward is peace in their time, not for all time. But Luke, Leia, and Han don't even get peace in their time, let alone peace for their children or grandchildren. (Also, SW isn't a fairytale - which in their original form are quite vicious tales - it's a space opera.) Well, I do think that George Lucas once referred to Star Wars as a modern fairy tale, but even if it's space opera, it should have a happy ending, don't you think???
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 7/15 2:16pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Don't you mean that they would be DEAD if not for Luke? * Yeah, the phrasing's off. And I can agree with that. They're a rather hidden Legacy, but a Legacy none-the-less. I wanted Luke's legacy to be a large and flourishing Jedi Order and a descendant that I could really like though. * Cade may end up redeeming himself. Exactly, but the authors aren't writing it that way anymore. * Part of me says that's due to writing for the lowest common denominator - have you seen the criticism of Corusant Nights Book 1 that Reaves actually uses a vocabulary of words people don't know. In my book - that's a plus. By the way, you ought to give it a try - Reaves' style embodies the SW you like and you've already read him due to Death Star. You're right. Del Rey continues to make a huge mistake by NOT showing the heroes as victorious more often. We as readers need more satisfaction, not more depression. * DR seems to think that war is bad, m'kay? Thus nothing good should be shown of it, but there have been times when war is a lesser evil. But since I'm the one who's real, I'm more important than Luke. * Delusions of grandeur.... But Luke, Leia, and Han don't even get peace in their time, let alone peace for their children or grandchildren. * Until LOTF came along it looked like they might. Well, I do think that George Lucas once referred to Star Wars as a modern fairy tale, but even if it's space opera, it should have a happy ending, don't you think??? * Emphasis being on the modern, but I'd say you're being impatient as I'm certain Ostrander's Legacy run will end happily. -----signature----- "There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail - should we fall - we will know that we have lived." Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
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