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Author	Topic: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
Nobody145 Registered: Feb '07	Date Posted: 8/18 9:40pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	On the topic of how Invincible might've just been setting up plot threads for the next series... I don't really agree with that, as sure, planting seeds for future storylines is fine, but it would've been nice for the some of the actual main plots of LotF to, oh, I don't know, be completed? Invincible felt more like the end of Star By Star, if the Yuuzhan Vong had just said "ok, we have Coruscant and plenty of planets, that's it for us," although if the NJO series had ended that point, I think it probably still would be more optimistic than LotF's ending. The LotF war (I still refuse to call it a GCW, since it was so stupid compared to the actual GCW) ends off-screen, the new Chief of State comes out of nowhere, various characters introduced in the LotF series just vanish with no explanation, and... well, plenty of other stuff. Not to mention Luke is still dealing with grief, as well as Ben too. Might as well call the next series "Legacy of the Force Part 2!" for that matter. And as mentioned, LotF just... accomplished so little, in terms of good and evil. And yay, over 1,000 posts! Wonder how long till 2,000 posts. -----signature----- Don't mind me, I'm nobody important.
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 8/19 10:43am Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Bit of Trek news, as a few of us were discussing the failure to maintain momentum in the DSN Relaunch, turns out there's 2 titles for next year: The Soul Key The Never Ending Sacrifice The first of these resolves the plots from Warpath & Fearful Symmetry. Apparently the book was to be both Fearful Symmetry and The Soul Key but became too large so got split in two. The second focuses on the Cardassians, which to fans is no surprise given the title, so should return to the Bajor and Cardassia plots, for the two worlds have been closely linked in the relaunch. As for other plots: This still leaves the Ascendants to be dealt with and of what happens with the Dominion. JB -----signature----- "There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail - should we fall - we will know that we have lived." Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
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Nobody145 Registered: Feb '07	Date Posted: 8/19 11:52am Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Ah, finally some more DS9 relaunch news. Hm, Soul Key, guess that follows up on that plot introduced in Fearful Symmetry and that they sorta mentioned a little in the Terek Nor novel. And ooh, Never Ending Sacrifice, I remember that book that Garak mentioned once in the series as part of the Cardassian Orwellian society. Though in terms of plot, I didn't think the Bajor/Cadassia link and parallels needed that much more screentime with how... I think relations between the two are somewhat ok at the moment, especially with most (or all? I lose track) of the Orbs back. I'll just be glad to be done with this double Kira thing, and was never that big a fan of the mirror universe. -----signature----- Don't mind me, I'm nobody important.
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 8/19 12:15pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Ditto, I liked it up to Shattered Mirror then it went off-track, though that ep did have Sisko kicking the crap out of a Klingon supercrusier with Defiant in a very smart sequence. -----signature----- "There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail - should we fall - we will know that we have lived." Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
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MasterSkywalker86 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 8/20 4:49pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0 - Date Edited: 8/20 4:50pm (1 edits total) Edited By: MasterSkywalker86
	yay 1000 posts. JB Well, looks like Gage is only on for the first 6 issues of Man With No Name so I may have to reconsider it after that, pity - although the reason was due to the demands of the story, Gage feared he may not be able to keep up the quality. a pity, in other news I picked up the special 2 edition of The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. I have to pick up the 2 sequels and decide if Fistful of Dynamite and Once Upon time in the West are worth it. who's picking it up after the first 6 issues debut as a graphic novel ? If I thought Dent was worthy of such an act DV, I'd agree with you but I don't think he was. He wasn't the white knight, he wasn't as good a man as he claimed to be. here's my take on the movie, I don't mean to nitpick but I see people overlook three things in the movie, and I'm not talking about the Batman "3 packs a day voice". First I understand in the comics that Dent was well known in Gotham prior possibly before Bruce's return. Though the White Knight idea seem to be completely original, it seem rather useless, since Begins we have criminals running scared and hope on the streets with citizens clamboring of the Batman. exactly when does Dent surpass this ? sure he arrested a good group of the mob, but only through Batman's help that the public is unaware of. the point of Gotham City is that the old ways are broken and you need new ways to fight crime. Dent's public figure image didn't exactly had me believed the citizens had any faith in him. look at Batman's own little entourage, that's where's the citizen's hope lies in. Next we had the relationship/triangle between Rachel, Bruce, and the unaware Dent. I understand Rachel's reasoning that she and Bruce can not have a relationship because of his dual identity but to promise to wait up for him and only in the sequel to pick up someone else makes her a hypocrite. I also felt the relationship of love was forced in Begins...I mean look at the timeline, they were friends, his parents died, left for school, comes back for hearing they reintroduce themselves, he leaves for training, comes back, and until the very end she announces a love for him(where's the progression ?)... But to change the point of view Bruce isn't innocent either, he understands he wants to give Batman up and finds his successor in Dent, but he also wants to steal his girl while Dent is fighting crime ?!?!? a bit devious on Bruce's part. and at last, though I admit this is a pet peeve, with the Joker he had a incredible understanding of psychology and where people were going to be and what they were going to do. I know this was to point out his sheer ruthlessness, cunning, and tenacity but sometimes it bordered on superhuman. but again that's just a gripe of mine that's all. the movie could of used some cool down during the tension, I mean the movie was all tension, 2 hours of it. the movie was good but it's defintely not in my favorite pile. then again I'm the only one who enjoyed Spider-man 3(though in my book the first one was the best) I think, in the end, whilst I can appreciate what Nobody's arguing with the excellent analysis above and even agree with it, on an emotional level I dislike it. It was for this reason that Iron Man retained its crown by a very slight margin - I came out the cinema feeling happy, less so after Batman, despite its technical brilliance. Ironman seems so carefree and enjoyable, while Dark Knight it was even hard to root for the hero at times. I can honestly say I had a better time at Iron Man, while Dark Knight may be superior it felt depressing. * My view of Marvel is quite reduced from what it was a year ago, their marketing is as good as ever but just feels hollow to me, although I'm very interested in the upcoming War of Kings event. After this event I think I'm going to avoid events for a while, and continue on Cap, Spidey(hopefully now it's going to be fixed, Brand New Ways to Die is shaping up), and finish Mark Waid's FF run. aside from Marvel I will stay with Legacy of course and join up with the Man with No Name. * In a way Watchmen has become more significant both for what it did and the medium failed to follow up on, Moore is on record as saying that he felt the industry missed the point of Watchmen only taking up the dark and griity element. exactly what was the industry suppose to follow upon besides the gritty element ? * You've read Thor 3, haven't you? The one where Iron Man has his arse handed him by a very pissed off Thor? Well Fraction does a great follow-up on that in Invincible Iron Man, there's no fight or anything but Thor's disdain is expertly conveyed. that's cool, I hear the art could use some work. what's the deal with the artist reverting Tony's stache to just a stache ? The goatee in McNiven's, Granov, and Epting is so modern and more approirate for the character. RK No need. Honestly, I'm sick of the CW stuff. aren't we all, I hear the movie isn't all bad but it was ment to be shown on the small screen. Maybe Lucas will get some sense knocked into him with the low opening. I can't understand why some SW fans feel everything Lucas or LFL do is gold ? like they can't do no wrong, I admit I used to think like that bit coming into the books...but Glove of Darth Vader changed my view dramatically. Even though I like the prequels but by NO MEANS enjoy them as much as the OT, should point out that Lucas should have other people direct or critique his work. I just watched the prequel trilogy again and I can say Phantom Menace is the hardest to watch, while Clones picks up a bit it's very hard to relate or feel for the characters; Anakin displays nonstop whining, while Obi Wan isn't charamastic or allowed more scenes to be fleshed out in the sequel. Finally in Sith we witness a more likeability to both characters, with Obi Wan displaying his personalty and Anakin being likeable for the first 20 minutes. Sith was I say very enjoyable and a bit emotional to watch. but by no means does it steal the lighting of the previous films. 1. The YJK: Tops, natch. A good SW and Luke story. 14 novels, divided into 3 arcs. Everyone here knows what it means to me, so I don't think I have to repeat myself. Duh! 2. The Thrawn Trilogy: Without it, no YJK. It was nice seeing intelligent villians. And Mara... yeah. She's a good match with Luke. Also, Noghri rock. I admit reluctantly looking back that these books are one of the best things of EU. 3. the JAT: It really formed the basis for the EU. The Academy, the kids, I liked the 'Originals', as I've dubbed them. Tionne... lol, lava walking anyone ? 4. The OT: Not the first, not the favorite... but damn. For another time, perhaps... you should explained further when you have the time on your top ten...besides YJK. cheers then, I only been on for 3 yrs. Only five for me. boy has it been that long ? you mean hasbro, the new ones at least have some poseability though I hate the scale. A little bit bigger would be nice. And yeah, poseability's better. I wonder since they pick up the Marvel Legends line maybe they'll get an idea or two ? ChildofWinds That's good! too much work, not so good....well at least to the waning days of summer break I didn't like it. Too violent and I didn't like the depressing ending where the hero is looked upon by everyone as a villain. And his girlfriend's dead; his Batman information destroyed; his operative left him. Nope! Not my kind of movie. o I agree with you on this, I can apprectiate the film but if I had to choose Iron Man or TDK,it would be Iron Man I had a alot of fun with the film. I enjoy Batman Begins much more than the sequel maybe cause the movie had hope in it. anyway she wasn't much of a girlfriend was she ? I'm not a big fan of the Clone Wars or that era, so I'm not planning to go to see it. good for you, I will watch it on tv...maybe. I also completed Specter and it was pretty good, not action packed but had a decent plot It's basically the set-up book for VotF. true, it's a good headsup to where the characters are before the galaxy finally enters a couple of years of peace. think of it we could had some single books explore on Luke and Mara, or Han and Leia, or the kids separately. instead of throwing a war full of space faring orcs. Thanks for posting your favorite Luke book list in Lit. My list for all books is pretty much the same, but I would add the Black Fleet Crisis to the list and the X-wing books. The X-wing books didn't use Luke, so I didn't add them to the favorite Luke books, obviously, and I didn't really like Luke in the BFC, but those books were well-done and very creative. I hear the x-wing books are good, but what and how is BFC ? I thought Luke was resourceful in VotF, and the Imperial plot continues. There are some surprises. How about powerful ? I found my library but no luck in Invincible. it's kinda pointless to read it when I think of it. I'm going to be disappointed, Luke isn't one of the major characaters in the book. Denning has the "dumb" vision of Luke as a sith....which would be redundant. the only thing that peaks my interest is what Luke does. can u specify on it ? It's true, MS, there ISN'T much emotion in LotF, and the good guys seem to endure more than win. Yes, at the end, like magic, the war is over, but it ended up being more confusing than statisfying. (How did they end it so quickly? Why did they give in? WHY DID THEY MAKE DAALA CoS??? What were the reactions of the main characters to Jacen's death?) Those kinds of questions. exactly, TUF had that...heck there were 19 books and somehow they found sometime to demonstrate emotion. LOTF not so much. LOTF is my NJO....sigh Luke walking on lava was cool. I think the bad taste that I have in my mouth about the JAT is knowing that Luke spends most of his time in a coma and everything goes on fine without him. do you forget that he's a force spirit who's doing quite a lot, but from the background ? my problem is that Kyp was designed to be a uber jedi Luke alike with some Anakin tendecies. pointless, now they established who Kyp is, but I hate how Anderson vaguely mention could be more powerful than Luke. thankfully they retcon it. -----signature----- " The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."-Darth Vader "Anakin wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that."- George Lucas
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Nobody145 Registered: Feb '07	Date Posted: 8/20 5:41pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	The latest Transformers Revelation spotlight issue is out, JB, but you don't usually get it for a few days, right? So I'll hold back on the spoilers. Suffice to say, another execellent issue, lots of things happen, and the only bad thing is that I wish they could've given this, probably one of the most pivotal arcs in the IDW Transformers universe, a proper six-issue -tion mini-series, after wasting so much time with Escalation. Oh well, I'm just glad Hot Rod featured in this issue, and that they finally got answers (perhaps a bit too easily, but oh well). And there was a mention of a Matrix, so there might still be a "light our darkest hour" moment (I'm actually hoping/looking forward to one of those). Hm, funny how Iron Fist now is doing an origin for Danny. Oh well, guess they'll stretch that cliffhanger out for another month or so then. At least Green Lantern wasn't quite in the middle of a cliffhanger when they started doing their Secret Origin (which is shaping up very nicely). -----signature----- Don't mind me, I'm nobody important.
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 8/21 1:22pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	MS86, a pity, in other news I picked up the special 2 edition of The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. I have to pick up the 2 sequels and decide if Fistful of Dynamite and Once Upon time in the West are worth it. who's picking it up after the first 6 issues debut as a graphic novel ? * New creative team details are on Newsarama right now, some guy named Wolpert is on for 7-11 then Chuck Dixon from 12, with a tale of Tuco. I can't say if I'll continue with it or not really. Ironman seems so carefree and enjoyable, while Dark Knight it was even hard to root for the hero at times. I can honestly say I had a better time at Iron Man, while Dark Knight may be superior it felt depressing. * That's why the former retains it's crown but I like your take on Dark Knight. After this event I think I'm going to avoid events for a while, and continue on Cap, Spidey(hopefully now it's going to be fixed, Brand New Ways to Die is shaping up), and finish Mark Waid's FF run. aside from Marvel I will stay with Legacy of course and join up with the Man with No Name. * I'm far more interested in War of Kings as the Abnett-Lanning have yet to let me down and are good at doing innovation mixed with traditional fantastic heroics. Bendis is greatly falling in comparison. exactly what was the industry suppose to follow upon besides the gritty element ? * Whilst it'd be murder to say exactly what Moore meant, I think part of it would be to do with the comics embracing change e.g. the state of Gotham executes the Joker, how does Batman change with him gone? What happens if Wonder Woman does change the world? How many times do the X-Men have to save the world before people stop looking at them and thinking: "Mutant scum!"? Certain elements are fixed and will never change. that's cool, I hear the art could use some work. what's the deal with the artist reverting Tony's stache to just a stache ? The goatee in McNiven's, Granov, and Epting is so modern and more approirate for the character. * Depends how you find Larrocca, thus far I'd say he's done very well. Nobody, The latest Transformers Revelation spotlight issue is out, JB, but you don't usually get it for a few days, right? So I'll hold back on the spoilers. * Thanks, comics hit the Uk today but I can only get to the shop on Saturday. Suffice to say, another execellent issue, lots of things happen, and the only bad thing is that I wish they could've given this, probably one of the most pivotal arcs in the IDW Transformers universe, a proper six-issue -tion mini-series, after wasting so much time with Escalation. * Everything I've heard in regard to the reduction suggests office politics at work, sad to say. Oh well, I'm just glad Hot Rod featured in this issue, and that they finally got answers (perhaps a bit too easily, but oh well). And there was a mention of a Matrix, so there might still be a "light our darkest hour" moment (I'm actually hoping/looking forward to one of those). * Sounds very encouraging. For all that I can't see how Furman is going to wrap this up, I know he could do it. Hm, funny how Iron Fist now is doing an origin for Danny. Oh well, guess they'll stretch that cliffhanger out for another month or so then. * Contrary to the packaging, it isn't new material - reprint wrapped in 4 new story pages. At least Green Lantern wasn't quite in the middle of a cliffhanger when they started doing their Secret Origin (which is shaping up very nicely). * I don't think anyone expected Secret Origin to be as great as it has been, Johns is doing something so far removed and superior to the standard origin story that the gap is ludicrous. I'm finding DC are really getting their act together afer a couple of bad years. -----signature----- "There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail - should we fall - we will know that we have lived." Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
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RK_Striker_JK_5 Registered: Jul '03	Date Posted: 8/22 4:59pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	My old PC died on me on Sunday. I got a new PC on Monday... and it began crashing randomly. A friend came over today and I think the problem's solved. Nobody145: I don't agree with CoW's complaints about having a Jedi Council that's made up primarily of PT era Jedi (although there are only three Jedi Masters there), as I know DH probably can't touch too many OT era characters, due to no one has any idea how many more characters Del Rey will kill off in the next series, but neverm ind, its an old arguement, so not much point continuing it. I'll just say this. I would've loved for DH to use some of the OT-era characters or post-ROTJ characters. And if people think it would limit the danger they can be placed in, I can tell you from personal experience that that's a load of bantha poodoo. My big epic fic, Three New Sailor Senshi, bounces around like the Bantam era. But I still can put them in danger and use creative ways to get them out. And did you read the Galvatron spotlight, RK_Striker? Yes, I did. I'm not sure... but anyway, what I mean is that though they've had Transformers like Unicron and Cyclonus show up, they're just their own independent individuals, no relation to Megatron. I... don't see why they would. Do you mean Primus? Though we've had a lot of 'trons recently. There was Magmatron in Beast Wars, then Banzaitron with the 'dealer thing. Or was that whole comment about Galvatron and Unicron just made in jest? Sorta in jest. Although if they did connect it to the multi-verse Unicron, that'd be cool too. Sorry, I see the emoticon, just not quite sure exactly what you're joking about? lol, I'm not sure myself sometimes. And I'll get right on to pre-ordering those new MTMTE reprints then. Better to buy them before I forget about again and have them go out of print. Cool. Seriously, they are a great resource. On the Caedus thing, I don't remember the scene too precisely, as ugh, reading any of those books once alredy gives me a headache, I don't know if I could stomach reading them twice I don't know of many people who could. The only post-YJK book I read twice was Traitor, and that was along the lines of, "No way anything could be this bad!" The last three pages of the series are far, far worse, with the new Chief of State announced.... Though Jaina training with Mandalorians was almost as bad. Daala as Chief of State... the Bond Girl. The anti-Jedi unreconstructed Tarkin-kriffin' Mon Cal-attacking attempted BDZ of Coruscant... Sigh This is why I like the YJK. It made so much more sense than anything that's come after it! I know some people don't like Denning, Raises hand "when did Boba ever kill a Jedi?" since so far, Boba hasn't had any documented Jedi kills. I think more Jedi have 'killed' Boba than Boba's killed Jedi. What I don't get is how something hopeless like the current Battlestar Galactica keeps going when its week after week of even darker developments, and the characters are far, far less interesting or likable. I've never seen the new Galactica. I saw the pilot movie and was turned off right then and there. Oh well, my head always worked differently from most people (and I'm usually at a lower and slower mental level), It doesn't show to me. You seem like a very intelligent person. On the Animated Optimus front... Optimus mentions he still has the same rank as Sentinel, Prime-level, so however Optimus ended up as as a jumpgate technician, it must've been very unusual circumstances as he retained his rank. Maybe he's still in the Guard, but it's sort of to get him out of the way. "If you take the blame for <blank>, then you can keep your rank." Although while on some levels I like Animated a lot, I just don't care for most of the Autobot characters. I don't like big and slow (Bulkhead), or fast and very annoying (Bumblebee), though Rachet and Jazz are great. Yeah, Bumblebee is annoying. And his toy's not so great either. I do love Prowl and Ratchet, and Jazz. I just wish the Autobots weren't so outclassed in that series, though given their original roles, I can understand why, but after several seasons, I wish it wasn't still so onesided. Well it is nice that they use their smarts. Jumping back to IDW Optimus, yeah, I guess even he makes mistakes, its just that his condemnation of Omega seemed so... self-righteous. Tactical mistakes, I don't mind, but when Omega was so obviously right about how big a threat Monstructor was (and then they lose Monstructor later, of course), and Optimus ignored him. I guess by that point, with how you had things like Thunderwing and Sixshot still around, and with no real way to counter them, another unbeatable super-powerful Transformers wasn't really needed I felt. I actually fully agree here. Omega had no choice with Monstructor. has TW been restarted yet? or something else will leave Optimus mostly dead (given how the AHM series started). It's not a TF series if Prime doesn't die at least once! At least there they had a bit of a balance of power with multiple Autobot and Decepticon gestalt teams, Tyrpticon was matched by Metroplex, Scorponok by Fortress Maximus, etc. lol, about the old G1 series... the opening narration says that the Autobots were 'on the verge of extinction'. And Megatron... he bought energon with time. I think he knew his position on Earth was ultimately untenable, so he shipped as much energon as he could to Cybeetron before the inevitable. And it worked, too. At the beginning of the 1986 movie, he had the planet! What other cartoon villian-80's cartoon villain, mind you!-had as much success as Megatron? Rouge77: It isn't and it might be partly explained - but not defended, I think - if it is just a set-up for a new series, FotJ. Fate of the Jedi, right? Considering the other titles... their fate is death? Slow, painful death with a helping of humiliation on the side? (and YJK, if one wishes to count it too) set-ups totally. Except they set it up so that the good guys came out ahead, and you weren't feeling depressed. Sinrebirth: I'm going to emerge from lurking and respond to this; I think that the ending of LotF opened so many more avenues than, say, the ending of the NJO.Bothe endings left me with a feeling of hopelessness and utter apathy. Jedi Ben: Oh I like the name Striker, I just find it insanely wacky and have to stop laughing as I see Arcee engaging Banzaitron as a serious enemy. If it wasn't wacky, then where'd the fun be? Bit of Trek news, as a few of us were discussing the failure to maintain momentum in the DSN Relaunch, turns out there's 2 titles for next year: The Soul Key The Never Ending Sacrifice Ooh, nice titles! ChidlOfWinds: Yay! I think we now have reached our first 1000th post here in EUC. The SOS tradition of longevity continues! COngrats on getting that thousandth post, too. I agree. I hate all of these sad, depressing endings in books and movies lately! I'm rereading old stuff, rewathing old stuff. Oh, and writing out my own fanfic and takes on things too. For about a minute. Then they settled down and figured out how to take out Exar Kun. A testament to Luke's training. And Leia had to give them a pep-talk, too. Besides, it's not a bad thing they had gumption. Luke chose his students well. Thanks! I know! I LOVED the OT, but most especially A New Hope. It was almost a perfect film. I still think it's terrible that it didn't win best picture. It was SO creative! How could it NOT have won Best Picture???!!! It should've won, yeah. ANH is my favorite SW film, definitely. Next time, the YJK... maybe. Sounds good, Striker. I'm looking forward to it! At the bottom, Windy. MasterSkywalker86: aren't we all, I hear the movie isn't all bad but it was ment to be shown on the small screen. Maybe Lucas will get some sense knocked into him with the low opening. I'm not gonna go see it, that's for sure. while Clones picks up a bit it's very hard to relate or feel for the characters; Anakin displays nonstop whining, while Obi Wan isn't charamastic or allowed more scenes to be fleshed out in the sequel. I can sorta accept Anakin's woodenness around Padme. Has he ever had experience around women like that? I admit reluctantly looking back that these books are one of the best things of EU. I'm reluctant too, in that I wish things got better. you should explained further when you have the time on your top ten...besides YJK. lol, look below. The YJK... I won't go into how it was a small part of me making it through the 90's alive. Instead... It was a young adult series... that was far better than it had any right to. The characters were great. It took the one thing good about the Crystal Star-Lusa-and evolved her. Everyone learned. They grew up before your eyes. They suffered losses, learned from them, mourned... Raynar saw his father die before his eyes on that asteroid in 'The Emperor's Plague', but it wasn't gratuitous. Nor was it shuffled aside. He mourned, took that in and grew from it. Tenel Ka learned to reconcile Dathomir and Hapes. She lost her arm, and gained humility. And her and Jacen... She kissed him! SHe smiled for him, laughed and cried for him! Jaina and Jacen, meanwhile, were about a trillion times more mature in the YJK than in the NJO/DNT/LOTF. Smarter and more common sense at age 15 than 35. How... pathetic. Thanks, Del rey![/sarcasm] Zekk... from orphan to Dark Jedi to bounty hunter to redeemed Jedi. It was a long, tough road for him. An excellent tale of redemption there. Lowie... had a personality! He had things to do! He did things! He had a girlfriend, for Primus' sake! He had family! Lusa... good god. They took the only good thing from the Crystal Star, and they did good. She had anger in her, but she learned to control it. And heck, even when paralyzed by a dart from a Bothan assassin, she still managed to defend herself! And she died by those damned Voxyn in SBS? I call slag on that! And the BW fans know what I mean, too! Heck, Luke said she was strong in the Force! When BamtamLuketells you that, you listen! And lest we forget the OT! Lando had a successful business! Gemdiver Station, the amusement park on Bespin and Kessel! Leia, Han and Chewie were all doing good. And Luke... This Luke would've chewed the Vong, Killiks and JINO/GAG up and spit them out in 30 seconds, flat. The perfect combination of Yoda and Mace, the son realizing his destiny. Able to teach a class and then basically tell a freighter-sized beast to beat it! -----signature----- E-married to the wonderful DarthIshtar. Now also her Padawan. Member of the Y.J.K. Revolution Staring into the Darkness http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/27537567/p1/?23
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ChildOfWinds Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 8/22 7:38pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Rouge77 : all series tend to set-up possible new stories. This is true, R, and I don't mind that really. What I DO mind though is when the ending book of a series sets up possible future stories, but DOESN'T bring the series itself to a reasonable conclusion. As you said, Invincible had a really hasty and unsatisfying ending. Daala is CoS???? WHAT???? Jag is a Moff????? Han and Leia are going to raise Alana instead of Tenel Ka???? Han Solo sets up the Imperial Mission???? We get absolutely no reactions to Jacen's death except Jaina's. Luke and Ben, who were very important to the story and major characters in most of the books, just disappear in the epilogue, and we never get to see them interact with one another after Ben's captivity??? This book was far too rushed and left the reader very unsatisfied, not only because of Jacen's death but because of so many other things as well. Redeemed, or unredeemed and free, Jacen would have instead been a rather necessarily important figure in future stories, and through him what happened in LotF. Right, and for some reason, Del Rey doesn't seem to like to have to deal with more than a few major characters. If that's a problem for them, why don't they stick to one book stories and have each book be about several major characters rather than about everyone. Then they wouldn't have to kill characters off in order to have a small number of main characters in a book. They could have, for good or ill, made something epic out of LotF. Instead they got scared and made something that except for the death of Mara and Jacen was similar to usual Star Trek episode: Nothing in the fictional universe was changed by it; it didn't leave any lasting effects. Except, unfortunately, that two major characters are forever gone. Jedi Ben I could have grabbed the 1000th post any time on Sunday, but I've done it before and it loses the sparkle after a few times! LOL! What I like though is that there is a clear sense of design and purpose here, I had once suspected Feist of spinning this out without a map but that ain't the case. Well, the Del Rey and LFL "planners" seem to be "spinning out" the post RotJ SW stories without a map. Thanks for the information about the Feist books, JB. Charlemagne19 Hey folks, for those who wanted to know when the PDF of my latest work was to be available, Halt Evil Doer manuscript is now at RPGNow! Congratulations, C! Nobody145 : On the topic of how Invincible might've just been setting up plot threads for the next series... I don't really agree with that, as sure, planting seeds for future storylines is fine, but it would've been nice for the some of the actual main plots of LotF to, oh, I don't know, be completed? Exactly, N!!!!!! When you read a nine book series, you expect to get an ending in the final book even if there are hints for future stories. Unfortunately, Invincible did NOT really give us a complete ending. Invinciible was very unsatisfying as a single book, but it was even more unsatisfying as a "conclusion" to a nine book series! And the ending was very depressing and pessimistic. The characters had all lost so much, but had gained nothing to balance their losses. Not to mention Luke is still dealing with grief, as well as Ben too. Right, and Han and Leia. And Jaina killed her own twin brother... How does someone recover from something like that?? MasterSkywalker86 : the movie could of used some cool down during the tension, I mean the movie was all tension, 2 hours of it. the movie was good but it's defintely not in my favorite pile. As I said, I didn't like it either. In a way, it reminds me of the Del Rey books. Both are very dark; both are very depressing; both have heroes who aren't respected by a lot of people; both have unsatisfying, incomplete endings. No need. Honestly, I'm sick of the CW stuff. aren't we all, I hear the movie isn't all bad but it was ment to be shown on the small screen. I just don't understand why Lucas seems to think that the CW era is so great. He has this film in that time period; the television show is in that period; and they're writing a lot of Clone wars books. Frankly, I could care less. I haven't seen the Clone Wars movie and I'm not planning to see it. If it doesn't do as well as expected, maybe, as you said, Lucas will come to realized that maybe this era isn't all that popular. I actually would like a post RotJ animated series on Luke's Jedi Order. I don't even care if it is completely different from the one we got in the EU at this point because I'm so disappointed with what's been done with the characters anyway. I enjoy Batman Begins much more than the sequel maybe cause the movie had hope in it. anyway she wasn't much of a girlfriend was she ? I liked Batman Begins better too. No, she wasn't much of a girlfriend. think of it we could had some single books explore on Luke and Mara, or Han and Leia, or the kids separately. instead of throwing a war full of space faring orcs. I certainly would have preferred that to the NJO. I hear the x-wing books are good, but what and how is BFC ? Black Fleet Crisis. How about powerful ? I found my library but no luck in Invincible. it's kinda pointless to read it when I think of it. I'm going to be disappointed, Luke isn't one of the major characaters in the book. While it's true that Luke isn't at the forefront of the book, and we never get anything from his point of view, Luke IS very important in the story. Not only does he help Jaina and give her power boosts, but he manipulates Jacen's visions from afar. He's like a great Chessmaster orchestrating everything. but I hate how Anderson vaguely mention could be more powerful than Luke. thankfully they retcon it. Yes! Thank goodness! RK_Striker_JK_5 : My old PC died on me on Sunday. I got a new PC on Monday... and it began crashing randomly. That doesn't sound good! I'm glad your friend was able to help you out! Fate of the Jedi, right? Considering the other titles... their fate is death? Slow, painful death with a helping of humiliation on the side? Unfortunately, the way things have been going, you're probably right. Bothe endings left me with a feeling of hopelessness and utter apathy. Unfortunately, I agree. I'm rereading old stuff, rewathing old stuff. Oh, and writing out my own fanfic and takes on things too. That's probably best! A testament to Luke's training. And Leia had to give them a pep-talk, too. Besides, it's not a bad thing they had gumption. Luke chose his students well. I guess you can look at it that way. Poor Luke always gets blamed when a Jedi chooses to do bad things. I guess it's only fair that he would get credit when they do something well. It should've won, yeah. ANH is my favorite SW film, definitely. Mine too! The YJK.. It was a young adult series... that was far better than it had any right to. The characters were great. Everyone learned. They grew up before your eyes. They suffered losses, learned from them, mourned... Raynar saw his father die before his eyes on that asteroid in 'The Emperor's Plague', but it wasn't gratuitous. Nor was it shuffled aside. He mourned, took that in and grew from it. Tenel Ka learned to reconcile Dathomir and Hapes. She lost her arm, and gained humility. And her and Jacen... She kissed him! SHe smiled for him, laughed and cried for him! Jaina and Jacen, meanwhile, were about a trillion times more mature in the YJK than in the NJO/DNT/LOTF. Smarter and more common sense at age 15 than 35. And lest we forget the OT! Lando had a successful business! Gemdiver Station, the amusement park on Bespin and Kessel! Leia, Han and Chewie were all doing good. And Luke... This Luke would've chewed the Vong, Killiks and JINO/GAG up and spit them out in 30 seconds, flat. The perfect combination of Yoda and Mace, the son realizing his destiny. Able to teach a class and then basically tell a freighter-sized beast to beat it! This and all the rest: Very nicely said, Striker! Isn't it sad that the authors of a young adult series "got" the characters much better than the authors of the adult novels did???
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Rouge77 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 8/23 3:48pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0 - Date Edited: 8/23 3:51pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Rouge77
	RK_Striker_JK_5 posted: Fate of the Jedi, right? Considering the other titles... their fate is death? Slow, painful death with a helping of humiliation on the side? Probably more like more of the same we had in DN and LotF: What will be the relationship of the Jedi to the GA government? Can they make any decisions when Luke isn't around? And one part of the "fate" of the Jedi in FotJ will very likely be the founding of the Imperial Knights of IR by Jaina, so a very tiny schism seems to be in the cards. ChildOfWinds posted: This is true, R, and I don't mind that really. What I DO mind though is when the ending book of a series sets up possible future stories, but DOESN'T bring the series itself to a reasonable conclusion. As you said, Invincible had a really hasty and unsatisfying ending. Daala is CoS???? WHAT???? Jag is a Moff????? Han and Leia are going to raise Alana instead of Tenel Ka???? Han Solo sets up the Imperial Mission???? We get absolutely no reactions to Jacen's death except Jaina's. Luke and Ben, who were very important to the story and major characters in most of the books, just disappear in the epilogue, and we never get to see them interact with one another after Ben's captivity??? This book was far too rushed and left the reader very unsatisfied, not only because of Jacen's death but because of so many other things as well. The book was a mess, no doubt about it. I don't know what they did think, as many of these problems could have been solved with adding couple of chapters and more emotions for the characters. And for me, the whole series would have been saved from being the utter wreck it looks to me now, if Jacen would have lived, in whatever role. Certainly Invincible left a very strong TO BE CONTINUED -feeling for me, and it can't really be defended as MF doesn't immediately continue the story, but jumps 2-3 years forward. ChildOfWinds posted: Right, and for some reason, Del Rey doesn't seem to like to have to deal with more than a few major characters. If that's a problem for them, why don't they stick to one book stories and have each book be about several major characters rather than about everyone. Then they wouldn't have to kill characters off in order to have a small number of main characters in a book. I don't think they want to rotate characters from book to book, but intend to have a very small inner group of characters, probably thinking that these few characters give something for everyone: Big Three for the OT audience, Jaina for the Bantam/NJO audience and Ben being the one for a new generation of readers. It just doesn't work for me because I know what we have lost. New readers won't. -----signature----- Recipient of the Confederation Ewok with "Rebel Yub"® Action!! Kill Ben Skywalker
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 8/24 12:39pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Well, back to the only regular topic around here: Comics! Revelation Part 3 was an excellent linkage of the various threads as it assembled them into a reasonably coherent whole with very limited time, this is one arc that would have benefitted from the full 6 issues but what we're getting is still very good. Thus far Prime's victories have come from intellect rather than brawn, so I suspect that will be how he prevails against Nova. All Hail Megatron was utter carnage on the grand scale as the 'Cons blow up the Brooklyn Bridge with many people on it and then proceed to smash the tunnels with Devastator! And that is after creaming hundreds of soldiers to death with Frenzy. The art is more traditional, the painted panels of the last issue being absent, but it's still entertaining. KOTOR: It's all going off here. It's very satisfying to see a long running arc come to a head, that the team are confident enough to end it and do so in style. The Jedi storm the Lucien estate and the Prophecy of Five is fulfilled by Haazen! Excellent work all round. There's a reason KOTOR has proven so popular and for me that reason is it's inspired fusing of PT complexity with OT action and characters, a fusion even Legacy cannot match. Instead Legacy just pulls ahead due to its soaring ambition as evidenced by its large cast. Over at Marvel, the Secret Invasion tie-ins continue to outshine the main event as the God Squad destroy, quite literally, the Skrulls' Gods and with it, the religion that drives them onward. Elsewhere the Guardians of the Galaxy have trouble as they find Skrulls in their midst - from Rocket Raccoon to a Soviet talking dog who is head of security, this title is a lot of fun. One comic anyone of intelligence should seek out is Pax Romana. A tale of alternate history, it asks what would happen if the Roman Empire had not fallen, instead being armed with 21st century weaponry due to time travel. Hickman both writes and draws this - telling it in a unique fashion that makes it one of the densest comcs going. The first 2 issues are out now, if you can find them with the third due next week. -----signature----- "There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail - should we fall - we will know that we have lived." Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
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Nobody145 Registered: Feb '07	Date Posted: 8/24 4:40pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Yeah, it was nice to finally see the Optimus vs. Nemesis Prime fight, even if it is going really badly for Optimus right now. Oh well, he'll pull something off, though I am curious about the Matrix Nemesis mentioned. The Magnificence giving all the answers about the bad guys' plot felt a bit... cheap, but oh well, at least the Autobots finally know what's going on. I also love that Hot Rod showed intelligence, since as he said, leave emotion out, and the reason for why the original mission failed (sort of) is obvious. Funny to have Dealer showing a few second thoughts, but nah, he was about to make his own power play with unlimited knowledge. Although introducing yet another boss/sub-boss seems somewhat redundant by now, with how the Autobots are barely gearing up to take out one of the Nega-cores, but all the major bosses (Nemesis, Galvatron, etc.) still remain active. Meh, AHM was just more mindless destruction I've heard, not to mention being a bit of a rip-off from Dreamwave's initial G1 arc. Incredible Hercules was fun, from what I've heard, and I have heard good things about the new Guardians of the Galaxy. Their tie-in sounds better thought out than the main series, which has barely gone anywhere in five issues, out of eight, and I'm already waiting for another HoM sudden plot device moment at the end. Even if the psychic manipulation thing already reminds me a bit of Ultimate X-men, with how the young X-men occasionally wondered how much Ultimate Xavier secreted messed around with their heads. Oh yes, don't mind the remarks I make about my low intelligence, they're part-joke, part self-depreciation, and partly due to low self-esteem, but this isn't really the place to discuss that kind of problems. And I know in the old Transformers movie Megatron had conquered Cybertron, but at that point, it didn't seem like due to one side having a huge advantage over the other in terms of superweapons or anything like that. In IDW, I have no idea how they would ever handle something like Sixshot, and he's just a Decepticon superweapon. Thunderwing and Monstructor aren't even Decepticon created, they're beyond conventional Transformers technology, so so far there's nothing to match them. Like in Armada, everyone was scrambling for Minicons to get a big power boost. Then there were the Minicon weapons, which gave the Decepticons enough of an edge to turn the tide in their war. And whoops, I meant Galvatron and Cyclonus earlier, not Unicron, since so far there's no Unicron (and I don't think a Primus either) in the IDWverse. On Animated, I know the Autobots use their smarts to sometimes beat the Decepticons, but half the time the 'cons just leave due to something else, which is... kind of disappointing. I miss Beast Wars, when the two sides were more or less equal. I'm still sad that they got rid of Omega Supreme after barely an episode, but guess it would've been too convenient having him around for too long. And yeah, KotOR continues to be awesome. I never cared much for the KotOR games, with how they had so many prequel era traits (and not the nice prequel traits), but the KotOR comic doesn't have most of those problems, and Zayne is of course awesome. Yeah, at first I liked the Legacy comics more than KotOR, but now KotOR is definitely my favorite, mainly because KotOR's plot is moving faster, though that's not to say that Legacy isn't still a quality read. -----signature----- Don't mind me, I'm nobody important.
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 8/24 5:01pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Say Nobody, I'll have to reread your earlier posts as the quip I made about intelligence wasn't in reply to anything you said! What it was was aimed at anyone who thinks comics cannot do highly complex stories of depth and character. Will reply more later, as it's 1AM over here! -----signature----- "There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail - should we fall - we will know that we have lived." Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
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Nobody145 Registered: Feb '07	Date Posted: 8/24 6:30pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Ah, actually that was more in response to CoW and JK Dart's responses to one of my earlier quips about my supposedly low intelligence, nothing relating to your post, JB! Sorry for the misunderstanding, I know you weren't trying to be insulting or anything like that. Sorry, I should probably quote more stuff more often, but I'm too lazy too. Maybe I'll categorize my responses by user names next time, hm... -----signature----- Don't mind me, I'm nobody important.
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ChildOfWinds Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 8/26 6:13pm Subject: RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
	Rouge77 :And one part of the "fate" of the Jedi in FotJ will very likely be the founding of the Imperial Knights of IR by Jaina, so a very tiny schism seems to be in the cards. I'm afraid you're right, but I'm hoping that this doesn't play out as we're expecting it to. For one thing, I don't want to see any more rifts in the Jedi for at least as long as Luke is alive. The book was a mess, no doubt about it. It definitely was! And you're right that most of the problems could have been solved if they had just expanded the book by a few chapters. It was so short anyway that it NEEDED more chapters. Plus, I really feel that it needed to have Luke's point of view. Those two duels between Jacen and Jaina needed some emotion and some dialogue. The two of them said so very little while they were hacking away at each other. Look at how Luke and Vader spoke to one another; tried to seduce one another to the Light/dark. And for me, the whole series would have been saved from being the utter wreck it looks to me now, if Jacen would have lived, in whatever role. That would have left many more possible storylines for the future that were snuffed out with Jacen's life. WHY did Jacen and Mara need to die??? I don't think that anyone has ever explained that to my satisfaction. Invincible did leave a "to be continued" feeling at the end, and it was supposed to be the FINAL book in the series. As I said, I don't mind having authors come up with some possible directions for future books, but they should complete the story that they started and were working on for 9 books first. Jedi Ben KOTOR: It's all going off here. It's very satisfying to see a long running arc come to a head, that the team are confident enough to end it and do so in style. The Jedi storm the Lucien estate and the Prophecy of Five is fulfilled by Haazen! Excellent work all round. That does sound very good. I always get my issues late, so I won't be able to read it for myself for a while, but I'm glad to hear that the author seems to be bringing this part of KotoR to a satisfying conclusion. I definitely prefer KotOR to Legacy as you well know. I think Legacy has far too many characters, so it doesn't have enough page space to do justice to all of them. Some characters even disappear for far too many months at a time. I've been reading the spoiler threads, so I do know most of what is happening in that series even if I don't want to purchase the issues. Nobody145 And yeah, KotOR continues to be awesome. I never cared much for the KotOR games, I've never played one, so I was unfamiliar with the Sith that everyone seems to be speculating that some of the KotOR characters will become in the future. I love Zayne! He's one of my favorite characters in all of Star Wars.
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