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Topic:
SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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Nobody145
Registered:
Feb '07
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Date Posted:
9/1 4:52pm
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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Yeah, I think Han and Leia were grieving from Tempest onwards over how far their son had fallen (and I mean that in a moral sense, not in a darkside sense, just so we don't get into a "did he fall or turn to the darkside" semantics debate). While I wish they could've done more in the finale, we saw that they had mostly been resigned to the fact that Caedus had to die by the end of the series. Caedus was simply too powerful to imprison or leave alive. In the second book, Han already disowned Jacen over the horrible, horrible crime of killing poor Ailyn Vel  (poor Nelani barely ever gets mentioned again in the series), then Jacen tries to blow them up next book, Jacen doesn't even bother trying to save them during that debacle at Gilatter, despite how they had come to save him, setting Kashyyyk ablaze is really the last straw, as even Leia gives up her son by that point, and by Fury, Caedus is too puffed up with ego to even consider his parents or family as anywhere near equals (since Leia easily draws Caedus into a long, pointless debate to distract him). I know certain people don't think Han and Leia moped enough (since Luke was the one who really spent a lot of the series just moping about one thing or another- Mara, Ben, his own mistakes), but I just think, that after Chewbacca, Anakin and who knows how many other friends (not to mention Alderaan!), they've simply lost too much to have something like this phase them too much for too long.
And since I sorta help start the "worst Star Wars book thing", I might as well chime in too. I thought parts of Invincible were well-written, and on its own, as an individual part of a book series, the book is ok. As a supposed finale to LotF? Horrible, though I think the new CoS choice is probably meant to set up for yet another book series, so I don't blame that on the author's skill. I just mean that while all three authors obviously have their own pet characters, Invincible just seemed far too short, with no actual appearances by the Confederation, I think, little to no interaction with any non-GAG GA officers (Bwua'tu, one of Denning's characters, never even appears, though is mentioned a few times), and just seems mainly to consist of Jaina's attempts to kill Caedus, and Ben saving Tahiri (and after the specter of ressurecting Anakin vanished, it just took a five-minute pep talk on Ben's part mainly), with occasional interludes to other stuff, like more Hapan backstabbing, Imperials being Imperials and blatantly setting things up for the Legacy comic. If all they had to do to win the war was take out Caedus, then they could've or should've done that four books back. Well, sure there were the Moffs too, but capturing Moffs isn't that hard with a task force of Jedi Masters and Knights. Its not that hard to fight Caedus either, with sufficient numbers and skill. Luke himself had multiple chances at killing Caedus, but something always got in the way. The first chance, Luke and the NJO just defected, then after Kashyyyk, Ben's soul was at stake, then Allana was in the starfighter with Caedus, etc., etc.
Crystal Star was badly writen, with some really strange sci-fi plot devices, but at least it didn't cause any big ripples or outrage, EU-continuity-wise, aside from being a badly written book. Though come to think of it, the Callista novels were also somewhat bad, but just in the so-so way, not in the "why won't the pain end" that LotF was like. But I just think the horrible story of LotF just leaves a worst taste in the mouth than a low-quality book like Crystal Star. Some LotF books were well-written, but I stand by my opinion that the fifth, eighth, and ninth books of LotF were the lowpoints of the series, with the fifth being the worst-written quality-wise too (not just that it was the darkest moment of the story, being the middle of the arc and Mara dying in that one). Of course, this is just an opinion, which I think I'm still entitled to (I don't mean to sound too snarky, just trying to be careful not to fall into author-bashing territory, since that's always a sensitive subject, especially with one of the staff involved).
On the KotOR subject, we still don't know exactly how Karath's fleet is involved. All we know is that Haazen pushed a button, and then some of Karath's ships fired on the courtyard of the Covenant compound, probably killing dozens (I think) of Council and Covenant members. Speculation at the moment ranges from Karath just following orders from a Jedi (since Haazen did help arrange for Karath's fleet to intercept Zayne's ship, with Xamar being there to personally oversee the effort), and it does look like an invasion of an official Jedi compound, so Karath might just be blowing up invaders, to Haazen seizing control of the Swiftsure's computer system and that's why Hammerheads are blasting that area (I'm leaning towards this one myself, since obviously, computer-controlled slave ships have never really been that huge of an element in Star Wars, so there's probably going to be something to wreck that experiment, not to mention there's the sci-fi cliche of giving too much control to computers always ending badly...). The next three issues are certainly going to be very intersting to watch, not to mention how Zayne is going to survive, but I have no doubts it'll be a great story.
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Rouge77
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
9/2 4:12am
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
- Date Edited:
9/2 4:32am (7 edits total)
Edited By:
Rouge77
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Nobody145 posted:
Yeah, I think Han and Leia were grieving from Tempest onwards over how far their son had fallen (and I mean that in a moral sense, not in a darkside sense, just so we don't get into a "did he fall or turn to the darkside" semantics debate). While I wish they could've done more in the finale, we saw that they had mostly been resigned to the fact that Caedus had to die by the end of the series. Caedus was simply too powerful to imprison or leave alive. In the second book, Han already disowned Jacen over the horrible, horrible crime of killing poor Ailyn Vel (poor Nelani barely ever gets mentioned again in the series), then Jacen tries to blow them up next book, Jacen doesn't even bother trying to save them during that debacle at Gilatter, despite how they had come to save him, setting Kashyyyk ablaze is really the last straw, as even Leia gives up her son by that point, and by Fury, Caedus is too puffed up with ego to even consider his parents or family as anywhere near equals (since Leia easily draws Caedus into a long, pointless debate to distract him). I know certain people don't think Han and Leia moped enough (since Luke was the one who really spent a lot of the series just moping about one thing or another- Mara, Ben, his own mistakes), but I just think, that after Chewbacca, Anakin and who knows how many other friends (not to mention Alderaan!), they've simply lost too much to have something like this phase them too much for too long.
I can't really accept the Chewbacca defense that was already used with Anakin to explain the lack of emotion on the part of the elder Solos. Children should mean more than friends. Let's take example of that distraction by Leia: She has few words of for Jacen of how he should look what he has become, remember who he is, and that's that. No true attempt to reach him, just to distract him. She could have made an attempt to make him feel that she cares about him and loves him still. But she didn't, as she wasn't there to save her son. She never tried it, in 9 books.
And Gilatter - Jacen abandoned them there, but we have to remember few things: His parents have often abandoned their children. Jacen himself afterwards thought how as children he and his siblings were often left alone for a long time with Winter etc. (Itself something that should have been brought up afterwards in the series from the other point of view, how the elder Solos felt about that.) But Leia and Han have left their children in dangerous situations. After Jacen's "death" in capture in NJO, Leia was sure that he lived, but she didn't do anything. In TSW they knew that Squib assassins had been sent to kill Jaina, but they didn't go to warn her, because getting information about the attack plans back to GA was more important. And Jacen did leave them on Gilatter so that he could participate in the fleet battle. Also the fact that he saved them in Bloodlines when the Falcon was in trouble was utterly forgotten by the elder Solos.
It seems that the elder Solos can do whatever to their children and it's always ok, they don't have to feel any guilt whatsoever, no remorse, but it's an outrageous and terrible thing when one of their children acts similarly towards them. An act that must be punished with death. And so when Jacen tried to kill them it was wrong, when they support his killing it's ok. A son who acts towards his parents like they towards him is too dangerous to be left alive. And thus we are in Palpatine's territory, yet we are intended to see this killing in a positive light.
Denning himself made a big deal in TG how Leia was afraid of getting children because they might become like her father, but she overcame that fear. And then Denning comes up with and idea that one of Leia's children goes dark, becomes a Sith and is killed. Does Denning bring up how Leia feels now that her old fear has come true? Of course not. Why bother with such a minor thing, when one can make the Solos speak about their bedroom habits around other people instead...
To me Invincible, and to some extent the whole LotF, represents the victory of American popular culture values and solutions over Eastern mysticism (including Christianity) of the OT. Not believing in the possibility of redemption for Jacen, not trying to redeem him, but forming this great chorus of his family and the Jedi all in jolly agreement that he must die and then ending his life in what can be said to be a rather botched execution, and nobody feeling any remorse for what happened him, any kind of guilt - that could have come from any B-movie or thriller. The American solution to a problem: Kill. It solves everything, like it did now: Have a huge galactic war? Kill your mentally ill son/brother/nephew and the whole galaxy finds immediate peace.
Invincible is ruled by the simplicist belief that all the problems are always caused by just one person on the other side and taking him out will result in immediate victory. Politics (and warfare) personified. And now, in Invincible, it works. Jacen is killed, a peace breaks out and nobody else are to be punished for their deeds, as it was all Jacen's fault.
It all just goes against the spirit of OT, because Luke found another way there. That one can be Jedi without a lightsaber, by reaching into people's minds with words, with emotions, and pulling them back. But in LotF we were in an alien territory compared to this.
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ChildOfWinds
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
9/2 8:48pm
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
- Date Edited:
9/2 8:55pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
ChildOfWinds
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Jedi Ben * A fan theory is Haazen did indeed kill his father ie:
"You said you knew what happened to my father!"
"I did - I killed him!"
I really *can* see this!
* Quite possibly, but it looks more like the ships were slaved to Haazen's control.
Yes, because he had that button. Still, how awful to have them fire on all of the Jedi, regular Jedi and Covenant Jedi.
* It's a skill that must be practiced like any other....frequently!
Are you hinting that I should be reading more comic books? 
* I'd have to dispute that, it's certainly dark, but it has far more reason to be than DN/LOTF yet is more hopeful than those two.
I'll reserve judgment on that until I finish the book!
I actually think I do. The Jedi and the Force are what make Star Wars unique. Otherwise, with some minor changes, they could be set in many other universes.
* Yet is that not the same narrow focus that has been adopted by Dr on the late post-ROTJ Eu to its detriment?
Del Rey hasn't handled the Jedi well. If they had, I don't think it would have been to the post-RotJ EU's detriment. I think Jedi and the Force belong in SW books. That said, I like having non-Jedi characters in the books as well. I like having Jedi and non-Jedi working together too. I don't think we've gotten enough of that. But yes, for me, Jedi need to be part of the books or I don't enjoy them as much. As I said, Jedi and the Force are what make SW unique.
* No other universe has X-Wings and Star Destroyers,
But they have similar kinds of space vehicles. They just call them different things and design them a little differently.
* The destruction of Caamas.
AH!!! Rather a HUGE event!!!!
Rouge77 : So she basically claims that Jacen had to die, that there was no other option, but doesn't give reason why.
Oh, there were definitely lots of other options.
And the thing about redemption is like a nasty joke: Buy a series consisting of 9 books and in the end they claim that it's your's, the reader's, responsibility to decide what is the final fate of the nominal main character. In a tie-in this kind of ending is cheating, betraying the reader.
I completely agree. This was supposed to be the culmination of a nine book series. People have been reading it for over two years and then they leave the final fate of the main character of the series vague and uncertain? What is this, a "choose your own ending" series? This should have been made clear. Why write a nine book series and basically not give the readers a definite ending? It irritated me too, R.
The whole thing irritates me, like the claim that Han and Leia "grieved quite a bit" for Jacen in LotF. In fact, they were very far from grieving in much of LotF.
Certainly their behavior in Invincible was strange. They were joking and flirting. It just didn't FIT in this book in which the plan was to kill their only-surviving son.
I just have to think that it was beyond the capabilities of the authors to write any convincing emotions or emotional scenes for these two characters.
And most authors don't seem to know how to write Luke at all. 
Master_Keralys
CoW, RK, regarding the quality of the book Invincible. This is just a point for clarification: did you think it badly written or did you dislike the story? Or was it some mix of both?
For me, it was both.
I completely disliked the story. Actually, it was stronger than dislike. I hated that Jacen was killed off and we don't really even know whether he was redeemed or not. I hated that the author had his twin, Jaina, be the one to kill her own brother. I hated that Luke was written as "tainted" and that was the excuse that was given for why he couldn't face Jacen. (There were loads of other ways to keep Luke from confronting Jacen that wouldn't have degraded and regressed Luke.) I hated that whole icky thing with Tahiri torturing (and touching) Ben. I hated that Daala! was made Chief of State out of the blue. I hated that Poof! Jag was magically made into a moff. I hated that Allana was given to Han and Leia and can't stay with her mother. I hated how Leia and Han seemed to joke and flirt in a very sad and serious book. I hated how quickly the war seemed to just end. I hated how the book and the series are such downers.
As for the writing itself, I thought it could have been better. It was too short, for one thing. It should have had at least another 25 pages to truly pull together all the loose ends. The ending was far too quick and unsatisfying. As I've said, I didn't like that the author made Jacen's fate ambiguous, basically leaving it up to the reader. As the ending book of a nine book series, I think the author had a responsibility to make it clear what he and the other authors had in mind for Jacen. Was he or wasn't he redeemed because at the end of his life he thought of Allana and tried to keep her safe? I don't think that was enough, and I don't think that Jacen ever thought he was wrong or needed redemption, so I don't think he was redeemed. But others could easily feel differently. And they would be right too, as we really don't know what the author had in mind, particularly by adding something about Jacen "stepping into the light" (I think of the furnace fire.) at the end.
I also think the author made the wrong choice in having the book focusing almost exclusively on Jacen and Jaina to the detriment of everyone and everything else. This book should have been more encompassing like TUF was, because the series was more encompassing. There were lots of loose ends left hanging because the focus was so narrow, like the tassels, what happened to Tycho, why wasn't more made of Ship, what of the Sith, etc. Other characters were short-changed too. Luke and Ben, in particular, were major players throughout most of the series, yet we didn't even get their reaction to Jacen's death. They weren't even in the final section. I initially thought that Ben would redeem Jacen. This series seemed to start out as Ben's hero's journey. Yet, somewhere near the end, this changed. Maybe it changed because the time frame was condensed and they thought Ben would be too young, but suddenly Jaina, who was only a bit player throughout the first five or six books, was the main character. This didn't work for me.
I really thought that we should have gotten Luke's point of view in this book too. Except for Jacen and maybe Ben, Luke has consistently been the most important character in this series, yet we got NOTHING from Luke's perspective. We have NO idea how he felt about anything. We don't know any of his motivations. I really think that weakened the book. It also left many people feeling that Luke was dark and cold in Invincible. But the truth is, we have almost no idea about what he was thinking or feeling. We only got Jaina's perspective and she thought of him more as her Jedi Master than her uncle in this book.
I thought the duels left a lot to be desired. The first one was okay, but the second one was really bad. Luke was wrecked so Jaina and Jacen could have a twin duel, and it was terrible, in my opinion. They didn't even TALK to one another. There was no real emotion or angst during this fight and there SHOULD have been. Jaina never tried to save her brother. The author even had Jaina just try to kill Jacen without giving him a chance to defend himself. She had thrust her lightsaber into her brother's stomach before he even knew what was going on...and she had expected that attack to kill him. I really didn't like that at all.
And the ending was far too rushed. For me it was a terribly unsatisfying ending to Invincible and to the nine book series.
The Crystal Star, on the other hand, was simply not well written in my opinion, as well as being badly plotted and badly executed. How did it break down for you?
I haven't read The Crystal Star for a LONG time. But I remember that I didn't like the book at all. I thought the villain was extremely silly and the adult characters were all off. Luke was especially bad. Why he'd be willing to let that blob eat him or whatever it was going to do to him, is beyond me. BUT, The Crystal Star was only one book long. TCS didn't kill any great characters. The events of TCS didn't permanently affect the main characters as the events of Invincible did (and will continue to do). So I think Invincible is worse than TCS.
Nobody and R77, I'll respond to your posts tomorrow.
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Rouge77
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
9/3 7:02am
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
- Date Edited:
9/3 7:03am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Rouge77
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ChildOfWinds posted:
Certainly their behavior in Invincible was strange. They were joking and flirting. It just didn't FIT in this book in which the plan was to kill their only-surviving son.
It certainly seemed to come from a different book. One could perhaps claim that it was their mental defense mechanism, a distraction - a way for them not to face the reality of what was happening, but still it felt out of place.
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Jedi Ben
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
9/3 3:13pm
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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COW,
I really *can* see this!
Yes, because he had that button. Still, how awful to have them fire on all of the Jedi, regular Jedi and Covenant Jedi.
* Well, he IS a Sith.
Are you hinting that I should be reading more comic books?
* I do have a list in mind for you, yes - do you know there's been adptations of Shakespeare into comics form? They've done Henry V and Macbeth as they're the GCSSE texts, very good work too.
I'll reserve judgment on that until I finish the book!
* Think you may find yourself liking this bunch.
Del Rey hasn't handled the Jedi well. If they had, I don't think it would have been to the post-RotJ EU's detriment.
* That's part of the point I'm raising, the other part is that SW is more than a singular narrow aspect.
I think Jedi and the Force belong in SW books. That said, I like having non-Jedi characters in the books as well. I like having Jedi and non-Jedi working together too. I don't think we've gotten enough of that.
* Nowhere near enough, where are the non-Force characters? It's a virtual desert.
But yes, for me, Jedi need to be part of the books or I don't enjoy them as much. As I said, Jedi and the Force are what make SW unique.
* I don't think it's just that though. For me it's Jedi, Sith, lghtsabers, blasters, X-Wings, TIEs, Star Destroyers, the Falcon - which is a modded hot rod if ever there was one.
But they have similar kinds of space vehicles. They just call them different things and design them a little differently.
* At a superficial level perhaps, but what chance do Starfuries have against a Minbari cruiser or a Shadow dreadnought? Zero. In SW a starfighter can destroy a moon-sized battle station! You don't find that elsewhere.
- The destruction of Caamas.
AH!!! Rather a HUGE event!!!!
* To those of us who recognise the name, yes and it's very well done too. I've now finished the book and found it to be a great continuation.
JB
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ChildOfWinds
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
9/4 2:25pm
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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Nobody145 : In the second book, Han already disowned Jacen over the horrible, horrible crime of killing poor Ailyn Vel (poor Nelani barely ever gets mentioned again in the series),
I really thought after the killing of Ailyn Vel that Ben was going to wise up and RUN, not walk away from Jacen and STAY away. It was disappointing that he then returned.
And YES, poor Nelani!!! Did Luke and Ben and the others ever find out that Jacen murdered her? I don't think so.
then Jacen tries to blow them up next book, Jacen doesn't even bother trying to save them during that debacle at Gilatter, despite how they had come to save him,
Right! In retrospect, it's too bad that Han, Leia, Luke, and Mara went to save Jacen at Gilatter. If they wouldn't have gone to his rescue, they could have avoided a lot of heartache and the galaxy would have been spared a lot more death and destruction.
But how nasty of him to leave his whole family there to fend for themselves when they had come to save HIM.
I know certain people don't think Han and Leia moped enough
I think we would have liked to see a little more grieving in the last book, AND, less joking around and flirting. Though, as R77 said, that might have just been a defense mechanism. It would have been nice for the author to confirm that though.
(since Luke was the one who really spent a lot of the series just moping about one thing or another- Mara, Ben, his own mistakes),
Luke spent too much time moping around in my opinion, and he made too many mistakes in this series too.
, though I think the new CoS choice is probably meant to set up for yet another book series, so I don't blame that on the author's skill.
But I think the author should have developed this a bit more. This came out of NOWHERE! I mean, Daala herself appeared out of nowhere in the last book after being out of the picture for decades, and suddenly she's the best person for the position of CoS??? She's an IMPERIAL and a war criminal to boot! I'm sorry, but that wasn't good story-telling at all. Something needed to be done to make her seem at least SLIGHTLY plausible. Then she could have come into the next series as a thorn in everyone's side.
Invincible just seemed far too short, and just seems mainly to consist of Jaina's attempts to kill Caedus, and Ben saving Tahiri
That was pretty much it, yes. And that didn't work for me as a culmination of a nine book series in which many other parties and many other characters were extremely important. This book was NOT a satisfying conclusion to the series by any stretch of the imagination. Denning should have given us an epic, all-inclusive ending like Luceno did with TUF.
blatantly setting things up for the Legacy comic.
I didn't like this at all. They seem to be in such a huge rush to get to the Legacy era.
Luke himself had multiple chances at killing Caedus, but something always got in the way. The first chance, Luke and the NJO just defected, then after Kashyyyk, Ben's soul was at stake, then Allana was in the starfighter with Caedus, etc., etc.
That was very frustrating, and it was necessitated by having this series consist of nine books. It would have worked far better as a trilogy and then Luke and other characters wouldn't have looked like such incompetent idiots.
Crystal Star was badly writen, but at least it didn't cause any big ripples or outrage, EU-continuity-wise,
Exactly!
I stand by my opinion that the fifth, eighth, and ninth books of LotF
The only book of LotF that I really liked was Betrayal. There was such potential for Ben in that book. But I didn't like the very premise of the Solos and Skywalkers being on opposite sides of a conflict. But I agree withy you that Sacrifice, Revelation, and Invincible were the worst.
On the KotOR subject, we still don't know exactly how Karath's fleet is involved. All we know is that Haazen pushed a button, and then some of Karath's ships fired on the courtyard of the Covenant compound,
True. We'll probably get more information in the next issue.
The next three issues are certainly going to be very intersting to watch, not to mention how Zayne is going to survive, but I have no doubts it'll be a great story.
I agree. I'm really looking forward to these!
Rouge77 Denning himself made a big deal in TG how Leia was afraid of getting children because they might become like her father, but she overcame that fear. And then Denning comes up with and idea that one of Leia's children goes dark, becomes a Sith and is killed. Does Denning bring up how Leia feels now that her old fear has come true? Of course not. Why bother with such a minor thing, when one can make the Solos speak about their bedroom habits around other people instead...
I agree that this was a lost opportunity. This was real angst material here and it was wasted.
Jedi Ben :
* I do have a list in mind for you, yes - do you know there's been adptations of Shakespeare into comics form? They've done Henry V and Macbeth as they're the GCSSE texts, very good work too.
Sorry, JB, but I don't think I want to read the comics versions of classics.
* Think you may find yourself liking this bunch.
I actually REALLY did! I loved the ending! Miraculously, they ALL got away, and Jax finally acknowledged that I-Five was a friend! He was also willing to finally learn about his birth family.
I was especially surprised and pleased to find that Nick Rostu survived. I really thought that the poor guy was a-goner! Wow! What a huge burden he had on his shoulders: Betray a friend or have your whole family and community wiped out.
It seems that this odd and unlikely little band is very capable when it works as a team. I was so glad when they were able to get away from both Xizor and Vader! It was GREAT! I LOVE happy endings!!! Plus, there was non-stop action and loads of excitement. I'm looking forward to reading the next one.
Del Rey hasn't handled the Jedi well. If they had, I don't think it would have been to the post-RotJ EU's detriment.
* That's part of the point I'm raising, the other part is that SW is more than a singular narrow aspect.
Sure it is, but the Jedi are extremely important to this universe. As I said, they and the Force are what make SW unique.I think just about everyone realizes that and that's why there was such a backlash against Revelation which belittled and tore down the Jedi.
Yes, I'd like to see more non-Jedi in the books as well, (heck, I'd like to see more newly created characters period!) but I really don't care to read SW books in which no Jedi is present.
* I don't think it's just that though. For me it's Jedi, Sith, lghtsabers, blasters, X-Wings, TIEs, Star Destroyers, the Falcon - which is a modded hot rod if ever there was one.
Sith don't need to be in SW for me. In fact, I wish they would have been left out of the post RotJ stories. I thought Vader was supposed to eliminate the Sith threat once and for all. That's why I thought he was the "Chosen One". Sith could have been in all the thousands of years prior to ROtJ.
I'll agree about the lightsabers belonging. I guess I thought they automatically went along with Jedi. But as for X-wings and Star destroyers and the Falcon, while they're all cool and I'm glad they're a part of SW, other just as cool ships could have been used and it still would have been SW. Not so with the Force, the Jedi, and lightsabers. Take them out and you don't have SW, in my opinion. Yes, you can get along without them for a book or a series, as the X-wing books proved, but as I said, the X-wing stories really could have been put into a different universe without Jedi and the Force and they would have worked there too. In a way, they even could have been military jet fighters here on Earth with a little tweaking of the story.
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Jedi Ben
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
9/4 2:57pm
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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COW,
Sorry, JB, but I don't think I want to read the comics versions of classics.
* Minus 10 points for missing the obvious angle of interest. They aren't adaptations, they literally transcribe the text perfectly into a comic form - this renders it more accessible to kids and teenagers which in turn gets the interested in classic literature in a way they otherwise would not be. Nor is it a new idea, my Dad read Illustrated Classics as a kid and as an adult retained an interest in them.
I actually REALLY did! I loved the ending! Miraculously, they ALL got away, and Jax finally acknowledged that I-Five was a friend! He was also willing to finally learn about his birth family.
* Nifty, nice to see it took you off guard.
I was especially surprised and pleased to find that Nick Rostu survived. I really thought that the poor guy was a-goner! Wow! What a huge burden he had on his shoulders: Betray a friend or have your whole family and community wiped out.
* Yeah, that was especially vicious and I too had Nick as dead.
It seems that this odd and unlikely little band is very capable when it works as a team. I was so glad when they were able to get away from both Xizor and Vader! It was GREAT! I LOVE happy endings!!! Plus, there was non-stop action and loads of excitement. I'm looking forward to reading the next one.
* The next one's very good and takes a different turn, but remains great fun.
Sith don't need to be in SW for me. In fact, I wish they would have been left out of the post RotJ stories. I thought Vader was supposed to eliminate the Sith threat once and for all. That's why I thought he was the "Chosen One". Sith could have been in all the thousands of years prior to ROtJ.
* I really do despise that Chosen One rubbish.
I'll agree about the lightsabers belonging. I guess I thought they automatically went along with Jedi. But as for X-wings and Star destroyers and the Falcon, while they're all cool and I'm glad they're a part of SW, other just as cool ships could have been used and it still would have been SW.
* I'm not convinced, cool ship design is truly an art and one that is rarely done well - see Trek as a case in point. Defiant was only cool due to the superguns it had, it wasn't the greatest of design whereas B5, its competitor, had the White Star. Or to put it another way, the first things seen in ANH? Blockade Runner and Star Destroyer.
Not so with the Force, the Jedi, and lightsabers. Take them out and you don't have SW, in my opinion. Yes, you can get along without them for a book or a series, as the X-wing books proved, but as I said, the X-wing stories really could have been put into a different universe without Jedi and the Force and they would have worked there too. In a way, they even could have been military jet fighters here on Earth with a little tweaking of the story.
* But no TIEs or anything else. SW needs the richness of all its elements to really work well, at least for me.
-----signature-----
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too
overwhelming, for even should we fail -
should we fall - we will know that we have lived."
Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
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ChildOfWinds
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
9/4 9:06pm
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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Jedi Ben :* Minus 10 points for missing the obvious angle of interest.
They aren't adaptations, they literally transcribe the text perfectly into a comic form - this renders it more accessible to kids and teenagers which in turn gets the interested in classic literature in a way they otherwise would not be.
Then it sounds like a good idea. It's just not really appealing to me.
* Nifty, nice to see it took you off guard.
It did in a very pleasant way. I also liked Jax's heroism (and the other characters' as well, of course!) at the end. They could have just left Coruscant to find a quiet place to settle down far from all of the danger, but Jax and most of the others decided to stay and try to help whomever they could.
* Yeah, that was especially vicious and I too had Nick as dead.
It's a good thing they planned to take his "body" with them. If they just would have left it where Nick fell and ran for the ship, Nick WOULD have been dead.
* The next one's very good and takes a different turn, but remains great fun.
That's good to hear! I have it but haven't had time to read it yet. Will Nick be in it too? Do we know what happened to him?
* I really do despise that Chosen One rubbish.
Oh, so do *I*! I just hate Sith even more!
* I'm not convinced, cool ship design is truly an art and one that is rarely done well - Or to put it another way, the first things seen in ANH? Blockade Runner and Star Destroyer.
Okay! Okay! You get to keep your cool ships! But you must admit that Jedi and the Force (and lightsabers!) are pretty indespensible in Star Wars and do make the universe unique!
* But no TIEs or anything else. SW needs the richness of all its elements to really work well, at least for me.
I'd say it works best that way, yes.
-----signature-----
Howe: Why?
WHAT, JB???? Would you mind explaining the significance of your signature, please!
By the way, you've been missed in SOS Lit!
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Jedi Ben
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
9/5 3:09pm
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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COW,
Then it sounds like a good idea. It's just not really appealing to me.
* There is a set of Superman stories I'll be recommending you, once they're in paperback - presently 2 of the 6 are. But if you're interested it goes:
Back In Action
Camelot Falls Book 1
Camelot Falls Book 2
The Third Kryptonian
Shadows Linger
Last Son
* It follows on from Up, Up & Away that you enjoyed, nor does the story end with Last Son, it just brings this set to a close, there's a further 5 stories beyond these.
* Other comic recommendations are the Bone series by Jeff Smith which is wonderfully entertaining, not to mention cheap to buy.
It did in a very pleasant way. I also liked Jax's heroism (and the other characters' as well, of course!) at the end. They could have just left Coruscant to find a quiet place to settle down far from all of the danger, but Jax and most of the others decided to stay and try to help whomever they could.
* Yep, it's a good example of how even in the Dark Times, good can still win a victory or two.
It's a good thing they planned to take his "body" with them. If they just would have left it where Nick fell and ran for the ship, Nick WOULD have been dead.
* Quite.
That's good to hear! I have it but haven't had time to read it yet. Will Nick be in it too? Do we know what happened to him?
* He's not, but it's not the only dangling thread - suspect it'll be picked up in the final book.
Oh, so do *I*! I just hate Sith even more!
* Re-ally?
Okay! Okay! You get to keep your cool ships! But you must admit that Jedi and the Force (and lightsabers!) are pretty indespensible in Star Wars and do make the universe unique!
* Yep, but the last few years have been overkill and I'm typing this as a TOTJ / KOTOR fan!
WHAT, JB???? Would you mind explaining the significance of your signature, please!
* It's a conversation from the final issue of Garth Ennis' Punisher Max run. Howe is a Colonel tasked with capturing Castle by a group of corrupt generals. The squad only succeeds in the capture due to Castle's refusal to engage them with lethal force. Before deciding what to do, Howe wants to know why Castle does what he does, why he keeps on doing it.
* Ennis understood that for the Punisher to work as a hero, the enemies have to be beyond the pale and they are. What balances out their numerous atrocities is the punishment meted out to them by Castle. The standard origin for the Punisher is that he declares war on crime after his family are caught in a mob shootout, but Ennis revises this on the grounds that after a number of years, it's no longer about that. After a certain amount of time that vengeance will be met, everyone linked to that shoot-out dead so why continue? Ennis' conclusion is that Castle does it because he has to.
* What stands out about the run is the coldness of the stories, even though we support Castle, he is cold character. His world is a permanently grey and dismal one. In doing this Ennis carefully strips away the glamour of the vigilante hero and instead presents a very sharp reality. It's excellent work but not for everyone.
By the way, you've been missed in SOS Lit!
* Thanks. With the focus remaining on the Denning Dark Luke aspect - which I confess to find implausible rubbish - I really haven't had much to say.
JB
-----signature-----
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too
overwhelming, for even should we fail -
should we fall - we will know that we have lived."
Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
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RK_Striker_JK_5
Registered:
Jul '03
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Date Posted:
9/5 4:34pm
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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What a... lovely banner. Sad thing is, I can think of worse.
ChildOfWinds:
I hope no one leaves. I really don't want to see Jaina be the one who creates the Imperial Knights. What a terrible thing for her parents, if she does. They lost both of their sons to death then, and their daughter to the Empire.
Yeah. Leia and Han spent the majority of their live fighting against tyranny like Fel's Empire. To have their daughter join in the formation of it... haven't they suffered enough?
Do you mean to say that they're saying that Jacen had to die but they're not giving a reason why? That's ridiculous. Jacen DIDN'T need to die. There were many other (and better!) directions that the story could have gone in where Jacen didn't need to be killed off.
Jacen didn't need to turn Sith or become JINO, either.  For me... it's pretty damned bad seeing what happened to him. *Punches wall*
He could have been another Palpatine because of his Skywalker class Force strength.
I'm... sorry. I laughed out loud at this. Not bad laugh, just it sounds kinda goofy. Not making fun of you, Windy.
I think Invincible may even have surpassed The Crystal Star as the worst SW book ever!
Ah, but the Crystal Star created Lusa, and therefore had one[/i] redeeming value! And the YJK took that cool character and made her cooler! No post-YJK book can say that!
This is true. And the surviving Skywalker/Solos were ruined even more than they were in the NJO and DN.
And I seriously just wanna as Del Rey... why? Why is it necessary for this family to be put through so much? What the hell did they do, besides defending the galaxy and fighting for good?
Oh, wait. That is their crime, isn't it. 
How is the CHaron Force story coming along? Did you and the others ever finish the sequel?
We're still working on it, althoug it looks like it'll be a duology instead of a trilogy. Ah, well. The last part would've just been a big fight anyway.
That's what I'm afraid of, both the deaths AND the further humiliation. Del Rey has truly not shown respect for the characters it inherited, either the film characters or the characters who were created in Bantam. If I were Timothy Zahn, I'd be pretty upset about what was done to Mara, Jacen, Pelleaon, Anakin, etc. Karrde doesn't even show up anymore, not even at Mara's funeral.
And they haven't done well with the characters they created, either! They're either cannon fodder, EU limbo or lives ruined so badly they wish they were in category one or two.
Yeah, and now what? They hardly have any characters left at all to be either heroes or villains. And Del Rey created so few. Poor Ben STILL doesn't have a friend his own age!
They had so much potential... and traded it for a bag of 'magic' beans which turned out to be stale.
Come to think of it, you're right. There ARE a lot of contenders for worst SW book. Why is it that authors aren't willing to write fun adventure stories anymore? Give the characters a BREAK from all the doom and gloom and sadness and suffering!
I've started rereading the YJK... for about the thirteenth time. Still loving it. Still in awe how badly it went from there...
And isn't that a shame???!!! One of the things I loved about the OT films was the camarraderie among Luke, Leia, and Han. I loved their relationships and having them interact with one another. I enjoyed watching (and later, reading about) them working together. Poor Ben doesn't even have anyone his own age to talk to.
And they passed that to their kids in the YJK. "Stronger together!" "Friends help each other!" Good god, it is pathetic how far they've slid down!
Oh, I don't mind at all that you talk about Legacy. I do want to keep up on what is happening. I'm STILL hoping that someday in the future things will change enough that I might want to jump back onboard.
I don't mind either. I'm following through the TPBs. I'm still in shock that Cade's mother is that psycho moff lady! I still hate that she abandoned Cade, too.
I flipped through it at Borders last week, but I didn't buy it. It's pretty huge, and there's too much technical stuff for me. I don't play the RPG games, and it doesn't exactly read like a novel, so I decided not to pick it up.
Books like that can fill gaps in, though. Just saying is all.
And YES, poor Nelani!!! Did Luke and Ben and the others ever find out that Jacen murdered her? I don't think so.
In a way, her fate angers me even more than Lusa and Lyric's-and that's saying something!
[b]Nobody145:
I've read Crystal Star, and that was the worst Star Wars book for a while... then there were suddeny a lot more contenders for worst SW book ever.
Well, like I said. Crystal Star has at least one redeeming factor. Oh, what I've been able to do with Lusa in my fanfic! What a horrific waste in the profic...
And yeah, it isn't a good year for Zahn characters (not to mention Zahn continuity... I won't say more, it relates to TFU),
Could you please PM me the details? I'm having nothing to do with TFU.
Isolder has shown up quite a few times over the years (though Hapes hasn't really improved at all in all that time, unfortunately), then he dies because Darth Caedus is too moronic to check to see if Isolder's genes had already been sampled forthe bio-weapon, a waste of another good character.
Isolder was so cool! A swashbuckling rogue, sorta the flip side of Han. *Sigh* Her parents dead, daughter stripped of her... I feel so bad for Tenel Ka...
...how'd I get your name mixed up with that other name I'll never understand... oh well.
LOL, it's cool. At the weathervane restaurant where I used to work, I worked with four other guys phonetically named 'Jon' or 'John' or some variant. And a guy named Ron... and a guy named freakin' Sean, all at once.
Saturdays were... confusing.
And anyway, on to Transformers. In the old 1986 Transformer movie, while they had Devestator wrecking a lot of things, at least the Dinobots arrived eventually to take them on, but at the same time, even with Devestator, it took most of the night for the Decepticons to finally wear down Autobot City's defenses. Its just too bad they couldn't have used Metroplex too.
Well, they sorta used Metroplex. Battle station mode at least. I see what you're saying, yeah. Megatron didn't need many superweapons in the old G1. He just needed himself and his fellow Decepticons. I don't think he truly gets the credit he deserves. I mean, compare him to Skeletor or Cobra Commander or King Zarkon!
Megatron. "All right, who pushed your enemies to the brink of extinction? Who went toe-to-toe with your nemesis-a figure bordering on iconic myth-on more than one occasion and won several battles? Who conquered your home planet and killed your enemies? Who defied an Elder Chaos God even while on the brink of death? Show of hands, people? Hello?"
Rouge77:
Rostoni calls Jacen's death "inevitable", claims he couldn't be talked to by Jaina - even when he tried to talk to Jaina, who didn't want to talk to him - and that Caedus was killed in the last book; that was as late as we could put it. We had him start the fall in the first book so we would have time to really experience his journey, with Sacrifice being the point of no return. Was he redeemed? You'll have to draw your own conclusions
I don't buy that. I almost never believe OOU 'word of god' blogs like that. Not like this, anyway. This is ridiculous.
So she basically claims that Jacen had to die, that there was no other option, but doesn't give reason why.
Yeah, REASON! We want a reason for this! Why did he have to die? Why did his twin sister have to kill him? Why was he freakin' stupid enough to go along with Lumiya in the first place?
And the thing about redemption is like a nasty joke: Buy a series consisting of 9 books and in the end they claim that it's your's, the reader's, responsibility to decide what is the final fate of the nominal main character.
Where did they claim that?
The whole thing irritates me, like the claim that Han and Leia "grieved quite a bit" for Jacen in LotF. I can't think of a single case where this would have happened. In fact, they were very far from grieving in much of LotF. I just have to think that it was beyond the capabilities of the authors to write any convincing emotions or emotional scenes for these two characters.
Han grieved more for Chewie than his oldest son. And that's perverse.
I can't really accept the Chewbacca defense that was already used with Anakin to explain the lack of emotion on the part of the elder Solos. Children should mean more than friends.
I can't, either. He's their flesh and blood and... they send their daughter to kill their son. Pardon me while I retch.
Jacen abandoned them there, but we have to remember few things: His parents have often abandoned their children. Jacen himself afterwards thought how as children he and his siblings were often left alone for a long time with Winter etc. (Itself something that should have been brought up afterwards in the series from the other point of view, how the elder Solos felt about that.)
Actually, Han was a house-husband for a long time. Leia rearranged her shcedule as often as possible to be with them.
It all just goes against the spirit of OT, because Luke found another way there. That one can be Jedi without a lightsaber, by reaching into people's minds with words, with emotions, and pulling them back. But in LotF we were in an alien territory compared to this.
Jaina found another way in 'Jedi Under Seige' with Zekk. She couldn't with her twin brother?
Master_Keralys:
There's plenty of grieving, actually, if you look for not just, "Oh, I am so sad that my son has become a monster." There's denial, anger, all the classical symptoms of grief as expressed about a person who is cutting themselves off by doing terrible things (rather than just having died).
No, from everything I heard, no. Jaina felt nothing. It's... no. They supported his murder by his TWIN SISTER (bolded and caps for emphasis, not shouting)!
CoW, RK, regarding the quality of the book Invincible. This is just a point for clarification: did you think it badly written or did you dislike the story?
It was both. The story was far too rushed, the story sucked-then again, SW has sucked since VP. So that's not new. Daala as CoS was idiotic in the extreme. It's depressing, it tries too hard to get stuff set up for the comics... I can't comment much more, but for me, both. I am so glad I didn't waste dime one on these piles of dreck.
The Crystal Star, on the other hand, was simply not well written in my opinion, as well as being badly plotted and badly executed. How did it break down for you?
Crystal Star had Lusa. That is one more redeeming factor than the whole of the LOTF.
Jedi Ben:
* Minus 10 points for missing the obvious angle of interest. They aren't adaptations, they literally transcribe the text perfectly into a comic form - this renders it more accessible to kids and teenagers which in turn gets the interested in classic literature in a way they otherwise would not be. Nor is it a new idea, my Dad read Illustrated Classics as a kid and as an adult retained an interest in them.
Hey, I think I read something like those when i was younger, too. I read an illustrated version of Moby Dick before reading the unabridged version, IIRC. Same with Red Badge of COurage and some others.
* I really do despise that Chosen One rubbish.
So do I. Besieds, everyone knows the real CHosen One is Optimus Prime.
Seriously, yeah. I loved it so much more when Anakin was... Anakin, and not some semi-mystic being. Gimme a break! 
-----signature-----
E-married to the wonderful DarthIshtar. Now also her Padawan. Member of the Y.J.K. Revolution Staring into the Darkness http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/27537567/p1/?23
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ChildOfWinds
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
9/5 8:35pm
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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Jedi Ben * There is a set of Superman stories I'll be recommending you, once they're in paperback - presently 2 of the 6 are. But if you're interested it goes:
So are you saying that Back in Action and Camelot Falls Book 1 are in paperback? I really did like Up, Up, and Away.
* Other comic recommendations are the Bone series by Jeff Smith which is wonderfully entertaining, not to mention cheap to buy.
You mentioned this one once a long time ago. I saw some of the pages on Amazon and the pictures looked like it was for kids, so I didn't buy it. Can you please tell me in just a few sentences what it's about?
* Yep, it's a good example of how even in the Dark Times, good can still win a victory or two.
Yes, against great odds and even agains Vader. Reaves does a really strong, scary Vader!
* He's not, but it's not the only dangling thread - suspect it'll be picked up in the final book.
I hope so. I started the second one. One of the new clients was dead before Jax and Company even met him.
That droid is even more amazing than Artoo!
* Yep, but the last few years have been overkill and I'm typing this as a TOTJ / KOTOR fan!
I just think that it may feel like overkill because the Jedi have been written so poorly. Plus, they haven't added new Jedi and non-Jedi characters to interact with the main characters.
WHAT, JB???? Would you mind explaining the significance of your signature, please!
Thanks for the explanation!
* What stands out about the run is the coldness of the stories, even though we support Castle, he is cold character. His world is a permanently grey and dismal one. In doing this Ennis carefully strips away the glamour of the vigilante hero and instead presents a very sharp reality. It's excellent work but not for everyone.
This doesn't sound like something I'd be interested in. I've read more than enough cold characters with grey and dismal worlds lately!
* Thanks. With the focus remaining on the Denning Dark Luke aspect - which I confess to find implausible rubbish - I really haven't had much to say.
It IS implausible rubbish and what is going on in that "Disturbing Trend in LotF" thread is even more implausible and disturbing!
RK_Striker_JK_5
Hi, Striker! You've been missed in SOS Lit too!
What a... lovely banner. Sad thing is, I can think of worse.
What's UP with that banner and all the pink anyway??? 
Yeah. Leia and Han spent the majority of their live fighting against tyranny like Fel's Empire. To have their daughter join in the formation of it... haven't they suffered enough?
They've already suffered FAR MORE than enough!
I'm... sorry. I laughed out loud at this. Not bad laugh, just it sounds kinda goofy. Not making fun of you, Windy.
Well, he could have been!
Ah, but the Crystal Star created Lusa, and therefore had one redeeming value! [/i]
And Crystal Star didn't kill any major characters; nor did it change the surviving characters' lives forever... Invincible did that in a most disturbing and sad way.
And I seriously just wanna as Del Rey... why? Why is it necessary for this family to be put through so much? What the hell did they do, besides defending the galaxy and fighting for good?
That's what *I* want to know. I also want to know why they thought this was a good idea or would be well received. Why do they keep on killing off characters and wrecking others???
We're still working on it, althoug it looks like it'll be a duology instead of a trilogy.
Will it have a happy ending? I still want to read ALL of it! I just hate reading stories from the computer so I keep postponing it. I've enjoyed everything I've read so far. Is Rebel Cheese still writing? I've missed seeing his posts in the two SOS threads too.
And they haven't done well with the characters they created, either! They're either cannon fodder, EU limbo or lives ruined so badly they wish they were in category one or two.
No, they certainly haven't. AND, they haven't even created all that many new characters.
And they passed that to their kids in the YJK. "Stronger together!" "Friends help each other!" Good god, it is pathetic how far they've slid down!
It is. I agree.
I'm still in shock that Cade's mother is that psycho moff lady! I still hate that she abandoned Cade, too.
I hate that she abandoned Cade. I also hate the fact that since she's Calixte, she's responsible for the death of Kol and all the other Jedi. After all, she's the one who conspired with the Sith.
Of course, the fact that Calixte and Morrigan are one and the same also means that Gunner is Cade's half sister...or maybe full sister? Is it possible that she was pregnant when she left Kol and hooked up with the Imperial guy?
In a way, her fate angers me even more than Lusa and Lyric's-and that's saying something!
I wonder if Luke will EVER find out about Nelani?
Yeah, REASON! We want a reason for this! Why did he have to die? Why did his twin sister have to kill him? Why was he freakin' stupid enough to go along with Lumiya in the first place?
All excellent questions, but I'm sure we'll never get a decent answer. We never got a sensible answer about why the series was called Legacy of the Force either. Rostoni made some really strange comment about not being able to comment because it involved a lot of people and she wasn't going to talk out of turn at the water cooler or something like that. And this was after the series was already over!
Buy a series consisting of 9 books and in the end they claim that it's your's, the reader's, responsibility to decide what is the final fate of the nominal main character.
Where did they claim that?
Because they made it very ambiguous about whether Jacen redeemed himself in the last second of his life by trying to warn Tenel Ka about a toxin or something that affected only Hapans. I think the author may have said something about wanting people to make up their own minds or something like that.
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Nobody145
Registered:
Feb '07
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Date Posted:
9/5 10:16pm
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
- Date Edited:
9/5 10:59pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Nobody145
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First of all... my eeeeyyyeeesss!!! Why do they buuuuurrrnnnnrn?!? Aaaaahhhhhh! Is there something wrong with the board, with what I presume a setting for Valentine's Day (at least I hope that would explain all the pink and the hearts) or is someone just messing with the settings? Though like Striker said, I think I have seen worse. I just don't remember it, as I actively try to suppress those kind of traumatizing memories.
JB-
I've really got to get around to reading those Coruscant Night books sometime. I just don't have that much free time at the moment to devote to non-movie characters. I know, its nice to not have movie characters the center of the book, I just haven't found them interesting yet.
By the way, read the latest issue of Green Lantern yet? The awesome continues, and Secret Origins concludes next month I think. And then, oh, and then we'll have the Blackest Night Prologue, this is going to be good.
Although I have liked quite a few Star Trek designs, most of them actually, though there were some exceptions, though my favorites are the Sovereign (Enterprise-E) and the Prometheus. Voyager was... meh, though I liked that the Defiant was such a break from the normal big saucer and bottom section philosophy. Although I liked most of B5's ships too.
RK Striker
Yeah, its a tired old subject, but it is sad how there really is no next generation left. There's Ben and... well, out of the YJKs, only Jaina, and maybe Raynar (as at least he's still alive), and Tenel Ka though she is tied up indefinitely with ruling Hapes, and Tahiri's probably going to end up like Raynar (maybe mentioned a few times in the next series, but mailny sidelined). Everybody else is dead, with Zekk being the latest casualty, and Zekk's fate was worse than Raynar, as I think I read that Raynar's fate was originally meant to be just a loose thread, that that kind of thing happens in war, but instead, now Zekk just vanishes in the middle of a random flight. There's possibly Seha, but that depends on how many more books Allston writes, and then there are those Hapan twins, but they were annoying, they seemed a bit too much like Mary Sues to me. And Lowbacca is a cameo character at best.
That's another reason I like Legacy, evne if the GA has fallen, at least there's a next generation, even if Cade isn't really likable, and the Fels are Imperials. Not entirely sure why I remain a Cade/Sia shipper though... oh well, I like the idea of the princess and the rogue, and then there's the Skywalker incest tradition to continue of course (though Gunner could probably fulfill that role too, since the Fel's ancestry is still a bit murky, though very probably tied to the Skywalkers).
I'll try to get around to PMing you later with TFU spoilers, or maybe I won't. Just suffice to say... you know how Kyle Katarn, Revan and the Jedi Exile, as the main characters of video games, end up as the most powerful, strongest, how they beat up everybody? And its all canonical? The Secret Apprentice is sorta like that, and unlike with Revan or the Exile, it happens shortly before the OT. If you don't know much about TFU, I won't bother spoiling you, ignorance is bliss.
CoW
And despite Jacen's raw Skywalker power, I really don't think Jacen could come close to Palpatine. Its actually insulting to think that they're sorta in the same line of succession (from Palpatine to Vader to Lumiya to Jacen). Power, yes. Intelligence? That's a laugh. It would all be so much funnier if it wasn't so tragic and wasteful. Although I do admit I've hated Jacen's character since NJO started. Though I recently reread a few NJO books, especially towards the end, and its really... painful to see how Jacen looks like he is being set up to be the next main character, with how much he did and how he wasn't whining as much as normal.
In general-
I wish we still had Tales comics around so that they could parody LotF. Oh well, the Clone Wars stuff should be ok at least, though I'll miss reading Dark Times (Rebellion, not so much). Ahsoka isn't as bad as I thought, and I'm looking forward to the TV series for the fleet battles if nothing else. I've always liked fleet battles, and I liked the Venator's design (even if they've never shown up in any time period outside of Clone Wars and early Dark Times), and the Malevolence looks interesting. Another failing of LotF was that while there was supposed to be a war going on, and that war was the justification for everything Caedus did, they never did much with the fleet aspects. Although NJO didn't do that well either. I hear the KotOR guide (I WILL get my hands on it someday, though by this point, I might just order it from Amazon, since it doesn't look like my local bookstore will ever get it, dammit, despite my placing a special order for it) had quite a few ship stats, and I hope the upcoming Legacy era guide (which hopefully will have as little to do with LotF as possible) will also have a ship stats section.
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s65horsey
Title: EUC Manager
SWC Lil' Sis
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
9/5 10:21pm
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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The Cade banner is not worse than this!
(The EUC lost in forum feud so the JCC people get to pick our banner for a few days.)
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Sinre's Sey  "Dude, when is being whipped bad...ever?" Idk, my bff, Waru! Sometimes Uli's Sey
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Jedi Ben
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
9/6 2:31am
Subject:
RE: SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 3.0
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First: YE GODS! MY EYES! Who unleashed the bright yellow? (Oh, wait just read Horsey's post.)
RK,
Hey, I think I read something like those when i was younger, too. I read an illustrated version of Moby Dick before reading the unabridged version, IIRC. Same with Red Badge of COurage and some others.
* Marvel have recently started something similar too. Although the books I'm citing are Brit-created! 
COW,
So are you saying that Back in Action and Camelot Falls Book 1 are in paperback? I really did like Up, Up, and Away.
* Yep, I'd say get Back In Action but hold off until Bk 2 of Camelot Falls is out in PB.
You mentioned this one once a long time ago. I saw some of the pages on Amazon and the pictures looked like it was for kids, so I didn't buy it.
* Sigh, let's get this clear shall we? IT IS NOT FOR KIDS ALONE!
Can you please tell me in just a few sentences what it's about?
* Without giving the game away, it focuses on 3 creatures called Bones: Fone Bone, Smiley Bone and Phoney Bone. Fone is the one we like, Smiley ain't too bright and Phoney is as his name suggests but isn't irredeemable either. They get thrown out of Boneville due to one of Smiley's get-rich-quick schemes, get lost in a desert, are attacked by a horde of locusts and escape them by heading into a mysterious valley where the story really begins.
* A few years back Scholastic approached Cartoon Books with the notion of colouring the story and targeting 7-11 kids, previously it was B&W. So the books have been coming out steadily in the colour editions, with Steve Hamaker doing wonderful work that adds to Jeff Smith's original art. Bone itself ran for about 60-70 issues, all written and drawn by Smith. As to the overall story, it's been likened to a mix of Peanuts meets LOTR mixed with Calvin & Hobbes, but it really is its own creature.
* Put it this way: If you like a story with engaging characters, adventure, humour, action and lots more - there's no reason for you not to like Bone, it's a great story that cuts across ages. Also while it becomes darker towards the end - for there is a villain to be dealt with - it never loses a sense of fun, adventure and humour.
Yes, against great odds and even agains Vader. Reaves does a really strong, scary Vader!
* I think everyone has been impressed by Reaves' depiction of Vader in this series.
I hope so. I started the second one. One of the new clients was dead before Jax and Company even met him.
* And that's the murder mystery plot began - which a few others have commented on as being a story rarely done in the EU.
That droid is even more amazing than Artoo!
* I-5 is great: A sarcastic protocol droid that plays poker!
I just think that it may feel like overkill because the Jedi have been written so poorly. Plus, they haven't added new Jedi and non-Jedi characters to interact with the main characters.
* That's a good summary of the problem, at the same time, the Force powers have gone up: Force-blasting fighter craft out the air? No.
This doesn't sound like something I'd be interested in. I've read more than enough cold characters with grey and dismal worlds lately!
* Oh, these stories ain't for you.
It IS implausible rubbish and what is going on in that "Disturbing Trend in LotF" thread is even more implausible and disturbing!
* An entertaining car crash yes, but that's about it.
Nobody,
I've really got to get around to reading those Coruscant Night books sometime. I just don't have that much free time at the moment to devote to non-movie characters. I know, its nice to not have movie characters the center of the book, I just haven't found them interesting yet.
* If you've read Reaves' prior books, it helps on the character front.
By the way, read the latest issue of Green Lantern yet? The awesome continues, and Secret Origins concludes next month I think. And then, oh, and then we'll have the Blackest Night Prologue, this is going to be good.
* I've a copy at the local waiting for me. Have to agree though and there's the Final Crisis special that focuses on the Red Lanterns to come too. Say COW, you might find these stories to your liking too - the Green Lanterns are effectively space cops but DC have opted for a space opera approach to it and have a long-running trilogy story running, with the final act due next year - which will be Blackest Night.
Although I have liked quite a few Star Trek designs, most of them actually, though there were some exceptions, though my favorites are the Sovereign (Enterprise-E) and the Prometheus. Voyager was... meh, though I liked that the Defiant was such a break from the normal big saucer and bottom section philosophy. Although I liked most of B5's ships too.
* Defiant I loved because it was so different and got to blow the crap out of just about everything: Klingons, Borg, Jem'Hadar, Romulans, you name it. B5 had some of the most inspired design going though: The White Stars were great but I've yet to see creepier ships than the Shadow Dreadnoughts.
JB
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"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too
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should we fall - we will know that we have lived."
Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
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ChildOfWinds
Registered:
Apr '01
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