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Topic:
The GRAPHIC Vergere Discussion Thread: It's Finger-Lickin' Good. (Don't tell FOX News)
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
2/1 6:42pm
Subject:
The GRAPHIC Vergere Discussion Thread: It's Finger-Lickin' Good. (Don't tell FOX News)
- Date Edited:
4/1 4:06pm (5 edits total)
Edited By:
s65horsey
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This thread is for GRAPHIC discussion about the one and only VERGERE, everyone's favourite Jedi-Or-Perhaps-Sith Chicken.
Mmmmm... chicken. I love chicken I do.
Oh look! A packet of chicken breasts. Odd. Almost... graphic.
(This thread is not about injokes. Nosiree. No injokes here. Move along.)
So, let's start discussing! Wooo! Yay!
Edit: Seriously, this is meant to be a Vergere discussion thread - you can ignore all of the above sillyness. For starters, we can begin on the topic of "Vergere's Sithlyness".
Do you think this was intended from the beginning? Is it just a poor retcon? Does it even make sense?
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The_Loyal_Imperial
Title: C&G and Lit Game Host
EUS Chancellor
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
2/1 6:43pm
Subject:
RE: The GRAPHIC Vergere Discussion Thread: It's Finger-Lickin' Good. (Don't tell FOX News)
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Countdown...5...4...3...2...
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
2/1 6:48pm
Subject:
RE: The GRAPHIC Vergere Discussion Thread: It's Finger-Lickin' Good. (Don't tell FOX News)
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It's for serious Vergere discussion. 
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I think the whole point of KotOR II was that Kreia realised she was in a work of fiction
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s65horsey
Title: EUC Manager
SWC Lil' Sis
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
2/1 6:48pm
Subject:
RE: The GRAPHIC Vergere Discussion Thread: It's Finger-Lickin' Good. (Don't tell FOX News)
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Serious Vergere discussion? lol
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JainaSolo00
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
2/1 6:56pm
Subject:
RE: The GRAPHIC Vergere Discussion Thread: It's Finger-Lickin' Good. (Don't tell FOX News)
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I believe this group is completely necessary.
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
2/1 6:58pm
Subject:
RE: The GRAPHIC Vergere Discussion Thread: It's Finger-Lickin' Good. (Don't tell FOX News)
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JainaSolo00 posted:
I believe this group is completely necessary.
I concur. That's why it was built.
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I think the whole point of KotOR II was that Kreia realised she was in a work of fiction
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ThrawnRocks
Registered:
Apr '04
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Date Posted:
2/1 7:04pm
Subject:
RE: The GRAPHIC Vergere Discussion Thread: It's Finger-Lickin' Good. (Don't tell FOX News)
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She obviously wasn't meant to be a Sith from the start. LFL just gave in to fan demands and her unpopularity. I admit, I was among those who considered her Sith before Betrayal came out, but I'm not sure I'm happy about them taking it from an ambiguously implied fan theory to canon.
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My Icons: http://www.powow.com/thrawnrocks/icons.html  Impeach President Bush Roan Fel's badassery knows no bounds. "The next Allston book should be all Syal and Myri, all the time." - Jello
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SithLordKobe
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
2/1 7:18pm
Subject:
RE: The GRAPHIC Vergere Discussion Thread: It's Finger-Lickin' Good. (Don't tell FOX News)
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ThrawnRocks posted:
She obviously wasn't meant to be a Sith from the start. LFL just gave in to fan demands and her unpopularity. I admit, I was among those who considered her Sith before Betrayal came out, but I'm not sure I'm happy about them taking it from an ambiguously implied fan theory to canon.
Graphic canon to boot.
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currently playing: Lego Batman
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Sinrebirth
Title: SWC Galactic Senate Host
Best GM - RPF Awards
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
2/2 2:25am
Subject:
RE: The GRAPHIC Vergere Discussion Thread: It's Finger-Lickin' Good. (Don't tell FOX News)
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Damn ambigious, actually. Good idea, Ulicus, though if you'd made it a Kreia/Vergere thread it'd probably become the most contentious place in existence. 
She's not a Sith. She may have been taught Sith, speak Sith, know's people who are Sith, but that doesn't make her Sith.
Unless someone wants to argue that, then I can make Asajj Ventress a Sith too. And Jerec. 
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
2/2 5:22am
Subject:
RE: The GRAPHIC Vergere Discussion Thread: It's Finger-Lickin' Good. (Don't tell FOX News)
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Sinrebirth posted:
Damn ambigious, actually. Good idea, Ulicus, though if you'd made it a Kreia/Vergere thread it'd probably become the most contentious place in existence.
Well, I need to save all my Kreia knowledge for a thread dedicated to you in Lit at some point, don't I?
I owe you one, after all.
Sinrebirth posted:
She's not a Sith. She may have been taught Sith, speak Sith, know's people who are Sith, but that doesn't make her Sith.
Unless someone wants to argue that, then I can make Asajj Ventress a Sith too. And Jerec.
Well, folk like Charles would say that the latter two were Sith... just not Sith Lords.
Surely Vegere's non Sithliness can't just depend on Bane's redefinition of the word to encompass Sith Lords alone?  
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I think the whole point of KotOR II was that Kreia realised she was in a work of fiction
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beccatoria
Title: 181st Imperial Discussion Group host
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
2/2 11:42am
Subject:
RE: The GRAPHIC Vergere Discussion Thread: It's Finger-Lickin' Good. (Don't tell FOX News)
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I approve of the use of a GRAPHIC for GRAPHIC ILLUSTRATION in your opening post.
And also for the heads up about the thread; it really let me keep ABREAST of the situation. I had to do some real SOUL searching, but I'm firmly on the side of Vergere not being any sort of Sith.
And if she is one - I think it's a terrible decision to let the retcon stand. Mainly because it doesn't make any sense when you go back and actually read the books from the time. It's revisionist history and while I'm all for that when it makes sense, when it seems so...limiting to the universe, it saddens me. I think it's clear it was never the original intention and as such it irks me to see the current characters remembering the newly licensed "newspeak" version of history. And frankly I think that theory relies on the notion that we can't believe anything anyone says in Traitor because it's easier to take Vergere's obvious aphorism - "Everything I tell you is a lie," - as literal rather than the teaching tool she explains it to be, and we can write off whatever Jacen thinks he learned (about approaching the universe with love; about being a hero, about acting in the interests of saving all lives on all sides) because he was suffering post-traumatic stress disorder and Stockholm syndrome. So all we have are the literal sequence of events which...well, for a book that turns on psychological development and philosophical discussion that...I just...what's the point? If we say that none of the psychological development or philosophical discussion within the book can be trusted? We reinvent it now so that it fits this version of events purely because that's the current trend? Will it happen again next time?
It just seems really...weak as far as retcons go. The things Jacen learned - the things that saved him as a hero at the time - can ultimately doom him without having to be some part of some master plan. In fact it's better that way, I think. More tragic.
People can say that Jacen Solo died in the Embrace of Pain, or that his fall began at that moment, as much as they like; but that ignores the fact that between Traitor and The Unifying Force Jacen was a huge hero. Who loved his family and fought bravely and was desperate not to have to resort to violence. But it's easier, and neater, to say, here, Vergere was a Sith and she had this Plan. This was the moment it happened. Here's the second someone grabbed his soul. Here's the person who grabbed it.
It's such a waste of an interesting character.
Vergere's not a Sith.
She's just really fond of GRAPHIC CHICKEN.
And you know what KFC's slogan is, Uli? Got Chicken? Got SOUL!
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kecen
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
2/10 8:36pm
Subject:
RE: The GRAPHIC Vergere Discussion Thread: It's Finger-Lickin' Good. (Don't tell FOX News)
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I LOATHE the Jedi this, Sith that mentality of fanboys/the fandom. Vergere was my favorite character in the EU for her neutralness (like Switzerland, Bender bad). I refuse to read the LotF books for the retcon, and cling viciously to the idea that Vergere is pulling a triple cross (how many times?) and is really good at disguises I have little faith in the fandom, and constantly write my own original stories when Star Wars starts to irk me. The whole dark side/light side seems to be some hidden form of religious preaching (or something about looks = goodness, as David Brin put it).
Besides, she was the first female "Jedi" I encountered who didn't have breasts (well not in the human sense). Crop milk jokes ahoy XP
(I was into the Kaleesh, which I imagine as avian, at the time)
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