| Author |
Topic:
The Jag Fel Fan Club
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Darth_Lex
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
4/27 7:19am
Subject:
RE: The Jag Fel Fan Club
- Date Edited:
4/27 7:23am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Darth_Lex
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Well, maybe I can provide another testosterone infusion for poor Keralys. 
The_Pied_Piper posted:
I just wanted to add that ANY Jag fan should read Lex's work if at all possible.
 Thanks for the plug! 
The_Pied_Piper posted:
We've seen little to nothing of Fel's POV in LotF. I'm begining to wonder if Jag's exil is as much of one as Thrawn's was.
I have no doubt that the lack of Jag POV was an intentional decision by the authors, and that the primary reason to hide his POV from the readers is to hide something he knows or feels. Perhaps it’s as simple as the fact that he still loves Jaina, although he does a pretty bad job of hiding that even in Exile. It’s also possible they’re still holding the card that Jag knew Jacen was the one who betrayed Han and Leia at Tenupe, although I’m a bit surprised Jag didn’t play that card yet (sometime before they all found out Jacen was actually a Sith in Revelation). And another possibility is just that Jag’s post-DN, pre-LOTF backstory isn’t quite what he says. At this point, that’s probably the most likely – and we may not get much of a big “reveal” of that in Invincible unless it has payoff to the plots in that book.
As for Jag staging his own exile, it’s a theory I’ve long supported but there’s really no direct evidence in canon. The best connection, IMO, is the fact that the “official” confirmation that Thrawn staged his own exile came in Red Sky Blue Flame, the young Jag story written by Elaine Cunningham to accompany Dark Journey. I suppose it’s possible Elaine could have been setting up the idea of Jag exiling himself from the Chiss all the way back then (knowing that Jag would need to leave the CEDF one way or another to be with Jaina…), but even if she wasn’t the seed is definitely there for someone to find and use. Plus, Elaine and Troy go way back – so if Troy needed an angle to get Jag out of the Chiss, it would make perfect sense if he used the one set up by Elaine… 
canadianjedimama posted:
When the authors were asked at ... I believe at CIV....what was the story with Jag's exile, they said that the story was mostly true.
Yeah, that was at CIV. I was the one who asked it.
I think I threw Troy off because I asked him “what percentage” of what Jag told H/L in Tempest was true. I don’t think Troy had ever though of it in numerical terms, so he gave a more impressionistic answer: that Jag is a pretty straightforward guy, so probably a high percentage of it is true. Then Troy also added, but someone writing a later book could always change that. 
So I think there’s a pretty good chance that most of what Jag says is true, although perhaps literally true but misleading (he can’t visit Chiss space to see the Fels – but they can still come to visit him) or true from a certain point of view (“family” meaning “Chiss House family” – not “Fel family”).
Personally, I suspect that Troy intended the two years in the jungle to be true. That covers most of the time between the end of TSW and Tempest, then gives Jag a little time to start the hunt for Alema before showing up again.
On the other hand, I think the exile story is shadier. For a guy who claims to be exiled, he sure has a lot of resources at his disposal, like the customized brain-zapper chip he passes along to Luke in Exile. That stuff has to be coming from somewhere…
Which is why I like the theory that Jag is exiled from the Chiss, and can’t rejoin the rest of the Fels living in Chiss space, but he is not disowned by or out of contact with the Fels. Very much like the “not reporting in as he was supposed to” from Force Heretic; this Chiss draw a sharp line between Assistant Syndic Fel and Dad Fel.
canadianjedimama posted:
But we're not going to see this in canon for some time.
I agree with you on that. Given that the Jag backstory was Troy’s idea, I’d think he’d be inclined to resolve it himself. But if it’s not relevant to the plotlines in Invincible, maybe he’ll leave it open for a future book.
On the other hand, if Jaina and Jag do get back together “for real” (or even get married), then Jag definitely has to tell her the whole truth. She would need to trust him unconditionally, especially if they confess their love prior to her facing Jacen. So I could envision that Troy would include one or two paragraphs where Jag tells Jaina the real truth of Tenupe and his exile – and tells her that he forgives her for her part in it. I could see that kind of conversation being important to Jaina’s emotional state before facing Jacen.
Also, that could be when Jag spills the beans on Jacen betraying H/L way back at Tenupe. Gives Jaina another reason to kill him… 
The_Pied_Piper posted:
The thing with Troy is this; He loves to sit in the peanut seats and throw things to see what reaction he gets.
That is absolutely true. If you had seen him at the CIV panel, the guy just loves messing with the fans. In a good-natured way, of course. 
The_Pied_Piper posted:
I just hope Denning doesn't let his Zekk-ness get the best of him and write Jag as a villian; I don't think thats the plan, but I'm 
Ha! Won’t happen.  Besides, remember the other thing you said. Troy playing up all his fondness for Zekk is just him messing with the fans. Jaina/Jag was a done deal the moment he reappeared in Tempest – they had two chances to write him out of her life for good (TUF and TSW) and they brought him back again. But they also decided not to resolve it for good until the end of LOTF, so they had to keep up the “love triangle” angle for most of the series (Exile through Fury, essentially). Troy was just adding some peanuts to the fire…
The_Pied_Piper posted:
Jagged never said he had no contact with his family, what he said was that 'I'm no longer a member of my fathers household and I'm a non-person'.
Bingo. Jag’s word choice in both Tempest and Exile was completely deliberate, IMO.
The_Pied_Piper posted:
My impression from Roan's attitudes is that he's been royalty his whole life.
Agreed.
Like you said, though, if Roan is born around 80 ABY, then Jag Jr. easily could be born anywhere from 45 to 55 ABY, plus or minus a few years in either direction. And even if Roan is born into established royalty, we could easily not see Jag become Fel I until 60 ABY, twenty years before Roan’s birth – and still twenty years after LOTF!  The same amount of time from VOTF to LOTF. 
Still, I would not be surprised to see Fel II being born around 42-43 ABY, shortly in the aftermath of LOTF’s ending (which will be the final weeks of year 40 ABY, if not the early weeks of 41). Unlike Roan, though, I would be very surprised if Fel II is born royalty. More likely, he’s a teenager (or early 20s) when his dad takes the throne.
Havac posted:
It's interesting to see the degree to which he reverts after five years with the Chiss -- a lot of the loosening that happened over the course of his time in the NR is undone, though it comes back in quick order in LOTF, when he's back with the NR gang. I really like that.
Agreed, that was very cool. Although I do wonder how much of Jag’s badass cold aloofness was an act for his old friends. Like LOTF, we don’t get any Jag POV in DN, so it could be that he’s putting on a show – giving them the Chiss Jag they remember, as a signal he’s not going to be their pal on this one…
-----signature-----
The Good News (LOTF: Invincible missing scenes) http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/28505708/p1 "Jag's cool. It's not arrogant if you can back it up." - Troy Denning "Just remember who you are." - Jag to Jaina
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canadianjedimama
Registered:
Jan '08
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Date Posted:
4/27 9:10am
Subject:
RE: The Jag Fel Fan Club
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jadesabre75 posted:
Look at that...I just speculated. LOL
Oh Sab  congratulations. Knew you could do it!!! 
And Lex....  sorry, man. I couldn't remember who said that over on Lit. I knew it was either you, Havac or YodaKenobi...I didn't want to name name's in case I was wrong.
As far as Jag's words to Jania/Han/Leia/whomever about the whole post-Tenupe period of his life, he hasn't actually told the whole truth or exactly lied either. It's the whole "Truth from a certain point of view" the Jedi are so fond of..
Darth_Lex posted:
On the other hand, if Jaina and Jag do get back together “for real” (or even get married), then Jag definitely has to tell her the whole truth. She would need to trust him unconditionally, especially if they confess their love prior to her facing Jacen. So I could envision that Troy would include one or two paragraphs where Jag tells Jaina the real truth of Tenupe and his exile – and tells her that he forgives her for her part in it. I could see that kind of conversation being important to Jaina’s emotional state before facing Jacen.
Also, that could be when Jag spills the beans on Jacen betraying H/L way back at Tenupe. Gives Jaina another reason to kill him…
Everyone putting their houses in order, eh? Nice. Of course Jag's known that Jacen's  since DN, so it wouldn't be gentlemanly to rub that in.
Cyn
-----signature-----
Lucky member of the Jagateers, my e-sister's of Jag-love!  "I like Princess Leia, but that's different Star Wars." Baby Girl on CW Proud co-corrupter of Flowerlady to Twilight... I Wobbler...
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Darth_Lex
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
4/27 9:42am
Subject:
RE: The Jag Fel Fan Club
- Date Edited:
4/27 9:44am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Darth_Lex
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canadianjedimama posted:
And Lex.... sorry, man. I couldn't remember who said that over on Lit. I knew it was either you, Havac or YodaKenobi...I didn't want to name name's in case I was wrong.
No worries. I wouldn't have remembered either if it hadn't been me.
canadianjedimama posted:
Everyone putting their houses in order, eh? Nice.
Yep. Although whether it will happen that way depends, I think, on whether Jaina admits to herself that she loves Jag before or after she faces Jacen. Clearly she's admitted to herself subconsciously by the end of Revelation; but she may try to keep it subconscious until she's done with Jacen (so he can't use her love for Jag as a weapon against her). If she does that, we won't see any "reveal" from Jag until after Jacen's defeated - and maybe not in Invincible at all.
Or Jaina may decide she needs Jag's love with her when she faces her brother (building on the Gotab kill out of love idea), in which case they'd have "the talk" before she leaves. Personally, I think that would be a thematically more powerful way to write it, giving it stronger connections to ROTJ and ROTS - but it wouldn't surprise me if it went the other way.
I guess I'd predict this much: if we get anything more than a kiss or a one-liner "I love you" between J/J, then Jag will probably tell Jaina the whole, actual truth. If we get only the bare minimum "seal the deal" for J/J, though, then I could see the big reveals being held off for a post-LOTF book.
canadianjedimama posted:
Of course Jag's known that Jacen's since DN, so it wouldn't be gentlemanly to rub that in.
You know, I'm honestly surprised the authors didn't "go there" at some point before now in LOTF. There are quite a few plot points where Jag could have said something like, "Well, he sold you out to me at Tenupe, what'd you expect?" It could have been even as early as Tempest with the arrest warrants for H/L, or running off to save himself in Exile, or his coup in Sacrifice, or even torching Kashyyyk in Inferno. But maybe they're saving it for Invincible...
-----signature-----
The Good News (LOTF: Invincible missing scenes) http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/28505708/p1 "Jag's cool. It's not arrogant if you can back it up." - Troy Denning "Just remember who you are." - Jag to Jaina
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canadianjedimama
Registered:
Jan '08
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Date Posted:
4/27 10:16am
Subject:
RE: The Jag Fel Fan Club
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Darth_Lex posted:
You know, I'm honestly surprised the authors didn't "go there" at some point before now in LOTF. There are quite a few plot points where Jag could have said something like, "Well, he sold you out to me at Tenupe, what'd you expect?" It could have been even as early as Tempest with the arrest warrants for H/L, or running off to save himself in Exile, or his coup in Sacrifice, or even torching Kashyyyk in Inferno. But maybe they're saving it for Invincible...
Which kind of begs the question, why didn't Jacen take care of the loose end known as Jagged Fel before? When Jacen and Lumiya were still playing Cloak and Dagger with Luke and Mara, you'd think that it would have occured to Jacen at some point to think "Hey, there is one person in the galaxy that knows I'm not the nice Jedi I pretend to be. Maybe I should look into that."
Added to the fact that Jag was snugged up to the Jedi and could have attempted to focus some light on Jacen's dark activities... 
Though if Lumiya was honest and truly did sacrifice herself for the greater Sith plan, then Jagged Fel would have to live. Live to father a Force-sensitive child, live to found a dynasty that would in turn help the Sith return to dominence...
Which means that Jaina is the key, not Jacen. Jacen's just window dressing...
Oh wow...*swats away Darth Plot Bunny*
Cyn
-----signature-----
Lucky member of the Jagateers, my e-sister's of Jag-love! "I like Princess Leia, but that's different Star Wars." Baby Girl on CW Proud co-corrupter of Flowerlady to Twilight... I Wobbler...
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jadesabre75
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
4/28 6:28am
Subject:
RE: The Jag Fel Fan Club
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Bad plot bunny...Don't give into the dark side Cyn!
-----signature-----
Stories are in my bio! Have at it! 9-19-08 - Best Bloody Day of the Year! Savvy? - http://www.limestrong.com/ Lucky Member of the Jagateers: Jagateer of the Imperial Red Swim Trunks
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Aleria
Registered:
Apr '07
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Date Posted:
4/28 1:21pm
Subject:
RE: The Jag Fel Fan Club
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Wow, that's some intense speculation. And it all makes sense! I love it...
But I have to admit, I've never gotten my brain to work quite like that. I might have some thoughts of how I think - or mostly hope - the story will continue, but to speculate in such a calculative and well argued way hasn't been a talent of mine. I've always gone with how I feel about the storyline and the actions of the characters, trusted my intuition.
From time to time, it actually works...
-----signature-----
Burden of the Throne - http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/28365918/p1/?0 Liaison to the House of Fel of the Corellian FC "You know, sometimes I amaze even myself." - Han
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jadesabre75
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
4/29 1:39pm
Subject:
RE: The Jag Fel Fan Club
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Ugh. Fell to the second page again. 
Hah! A pun.
Sorry. 
-----signature-----
Stories are in my bio! Have at it! 9-19-08 - Best Bloody Day of the Year! Savvy? - http://www.limestrong.com/ Lucky Member of the Jagateers: Jagateer of the Imperial Red Swim Trunks
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canadianjedimama
Registered:
Jan '08
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Date Posted:
4/29 4:41pm
Subject:
RE: The Jag Fel Fan Club
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Aleria posted:
Wow, that's some intense speculation. And it all makes sense! I love it...
But I have to admit, I've never gotten my brain to work quite like that. I might have some thoughts of how I think - or mostly hope - the story will continue, but to speculate in such a calculative and well argued way hasn't been a talent of mine. I've always gone with how I feel about the storyline and the actions of the characters, trusted my intuition.
From time to time, it actually works...
I'm always available for a quick crackpot theory.
Though the likelyhood of such awesomeness occuring in the LOTF series is low, but I always have hope... 
Cyn
-----signature-----
Lucky member of the Jagateers, my e-sister's of Jag-love! "I like Princess Leia, but that's different Star Wars." Baby Girl on CW Proud co-corrupter of Flowerlady to Twilight... I Wobbler...
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jadesabre75
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
5/1 5:44pm
Subject:
RE: The Jag Fel Fan Club
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Guess everyone is over in the invincible thread on lit. So I'll up Jaggie yet again!
-----signature-----
Stories are in my bio! Have at it! 9-19-08 - Best Bloody Day of the Year! Savvy? - http://www.limestrong.com/ Lucky Member of the Jagateers: Jagateer of the Imperial Red Swim Trunks
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jacensolofangirl2007
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
5/1 6:18pm
Subject:
RE: The Jag Fel Fan Club
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jadesabre75 posted:
Ugh. Fell to the second page again.
Hah! A pun.
Sorry.
LOL! *falls out of seat laughing*
-----signature-----
discover you intellectual side and join the Jacen Solo fan club http://boards.theforce.net/eu_community/b10194/4379448/p337/?8401 Padawan to EarthKnight: We strive for a 100 in awesomeness. And if we get a 90, it's still cool.
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jadesabre75
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
5/1 6:33pm
Subject:
RE: The Jag Fel Fan Club
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jacensolofangirl2007 posted:
jadesabre75 posted:
Ugh. Fell to the second page again.
Hah! A pun.
Sorry.
LOL! *falls out of seat laughing*
I'm so glad you all appreciate my humor.
-----signature-----
Stories are in my bio! Have at it! 9-19-08 - Best Bloody Day of the Year! Savvy? - http://www.limestrong.com/ Lucky Member of the Jagateers: Jagateer of the Imperial Red Swim Trunks
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jacensolofangirl2007
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
5/1 6:49pm
Subject:
RE: The Jag Fel Fan Club
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of course, its hard not to. you've got like the best sense of humor, its so much fun to read.
-----signature-----
discover you intellectual side and join the Jacen Solo fan club http://boards.theforce.net/eu_community/b10194/4379448/p337/?8401 Padawan to EarthKnight: We strive for a 100 in awesomeness. And if we get a 90, it's still cool.
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jadesabre75
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
5/1 7:08pm
Subject:
RE: The Jag Fel Fan Club
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jacensolofangirl2007 posted:
of course, its hard not to. you've got like the best sense of humor, its so much fun to read.
My work here is done.
-----signature-----
Stories are in my bio! Have at it! 9-19-08 - Best Bloody Day of the Year! Savvy? - http://www.limestrong.com/ Lucky Member of the Jagateers: Jagateer of the Imperial Red Swim Trunks
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canadianjedimama
Registered:
Jan '08
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Date Posted:
5/1 7:37pm
Subject:
RE: The Jag Fel Fan Club
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jadesabre75 posted:
jacensolofangirl2007 posted:
of course, its hard not to. you've got like the best sense of humor, its so much fun to read.
My work here is done.
*pops a gawdy rhinestone tiara on Sab*
I crown you Queen of Laughs here on the Jagged Fel Fanclub. Keep cracking us up, Your Highness.
ROTFL
Cyn
-----signature-----
Lucky member of the Jagateers, my e-sister's of Jag-love! "I like Princess Leia, but that's different Star Wars." Baby Girl on CW Proud co-corrupter of Flowerlady to Twilight... I Wobbler...
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jadesabre75
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
5/1 7:53pm
Subject:
RE: The Jag Fel Fan Club
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canadianjedimama posted:
*pops a gawdy rhinestone tiara on Sab* As long as it's silver with green or purple stones!
I crown you Queen of Laughs here on the Jagged Fel Fanclub. Keep cracking us up, Your Highness. *sigh* If I must.
ROTFL
Cyn
-----signature-----
Stories are in my bio! Have at it! 9-19-08 - Best Bloody Day of the Year! Savvy? - http://www.limestrong.com/ Lucky Member of the Jagateers: Jagateer of the Imperial Red Swim Trunks
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