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Topic:
Rogue Jedi: Kyp Durron Discussion & Story Index -- Looking for a new challenge/discussion topic!
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RebelGrrl
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
7/25/06 11:59am
Subject:
RE: Rogue Jedi: Kyp Durron Discussion & Story Index -- 2 stories added 12/08/05
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Ars_longa posted:
Oh, so there is some info on this machine? Can you tell me more, it's going to figure in BAON at some point.
The Wookieepedia has only the barest hint of information. I've sent you privately the relevant paragraphs from Droids, Technology and the Force: A Clash of Phenomena, which is a Hyperspace-Only article on StarWars.com by Abel Pena.
I will quote you the passage on Tenel Ka's decision when I get home tonight. 
ars_longa posted:
I don't think it's about perfection. I think it's about trying to sit on two chairs with one tohes. What were the function of Jedi, really? Fior rodan was absolutely right. I'll post a part from his lecture to Luke that I think is a key to this situation this evening - but, to put it shortly, what are they function? Police, diplomats, healers, warriors? But non-Jedi do all those things just as well. So are the Jedi a sort of enhanced police/diplomats/etc? If so, then HOW for kriff's sake then can do all this without studying those things just as non-Jedi do and practicing back-to-back with non-Jedi? In other words, live a life like any other being but PLUS Jedi stuff. Being a Jedi by itself doesn't grant neither experience nor knowledge. For both one has to work, and work hard, which automaticly precludes this 'all attention to being a Jedi' thing.
Point conceded. The Jedi Order needs to find a role that it, itself, is suited to. Once, that was as neutral mediators and other occupations, see the Exploratory Corps and Agricultural Corps of the Old Order. These were all things to further and benefit the beings of the galaxy and their lives. They were warriors against the Sith... to my knowledge they were never employed in any other war efforts until Palpatine manipulated the events of the Clone Wars and the Jedi became Generals and Lieutenants through his scheming. This, however, is that Fior Rodan and the living generations of the galaxy most remember: the Jedi being other things than they were meant to be. And that is continuing... Cal Omas apparently feels that the Jedi are his own personal commando force and Luke has not put a stop to it nor found other paths for the Jedi such as the old order had.
Which brings me to the last. I agree that there's several flaws in stationing Jedi around the galaxy, and you've listed them. I agree that they are present. Luke, however, hasn't come up with anything else. I do see the benefits to spreading them around, and I agree that there simply aren't enough yet. There's not even enough to rebuild the beneficial Corps that once existed, but nothing's been done to even make a foundation for a similar idea. Reinventing the Agricorps, for example, could mix non-jedi skilled in agriculture and jedi to assist developing planets, and planets devastated by the Vong war. I'd certainly want Jedi along in an exploratory mission to uncharted space. Those and others would be better ways to place Jedi with non-jedi populations, but it's not happening.
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PRINCESSCAMBRIA
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
7/26/06 11:44pm
Subject:
RE: Rogue Jedi: Kyp Durron Discussion & Story Index -- 2 stories added 12/08/05
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RebelGrrl posted:
Cal Omas apparently feels that the Jedi are his own personal commando force and Luke has not put a stop to it nor found other paths for the Jedi such as the old order had.
So my question is...If Kyp somehow became the GrandMaster, how do you think he would change things? Jedi wise, politically? What would be his strengths and weaknesses?
RebelGrrl posted:
I'd certainly want Jedi along in an exploratory mission to uncharted space.
I'm just in the middle of reading "Outbound Flight". Very intriguing. I think in theory it was a good idea, but of course this is Star Wars and nothing goes as planned.
Katie
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Ars_longa
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
7/27/06 12:14am
Subject:
RE: Rogue Jedi: Kyp Durron Discussion & Story Index -- 2 stories added 12/08/05
- Date Edited:
7/27/06 12:22am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Ars_longa
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PRINCESSCAMBRIA posted:
RebelGrrl posted:
Cal Omas apparently feels that the Jedi are his own personal commando force and Luke has not put a stop to it nor found other paths for the Jedi such as the old order had.
So my question is...If Kyp somehow became the GrandMaster, how do you think he would change things? Jedi wise, politically? What would be his strengths and weaknesses?
Katie
Ouch. You're basically asking me to relate some very important future plot points for my fic. Can't do that, sorry. But I think Kyp proved that he's much more willing to listen to the needs of non-Jedi people around and his own common sense than to politicians. So, as a very broad guess, canon-wise, I'd say he'd try to distance from any government and encourage blending in, living and working beside non-Jedi. He'd probably be less concerned about achieving high level of connection with the Force or the approval of Galaxy's big bosses, than with building a lot of support from wider base and just being useful for masses in general, while promoting the idea of the Order as something of an independent force that people can rely on for protection or mediation. He'd try to achieve financial independence and build his own information network, so the Orden won't be dependent on government in this area either. He definitely won't be doing anyone's bidding unless it agrees with his own choices. He will be pretty informal and less prone to saying pompous speeches than Luke is. If we compare it with Earth's religious ordens, I'd say rather a blend of Jesuit and Franciscan than Dominican/Benedictine.
How's that for a sketch?
A.
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For me Star Wars without Kyp Durron do not exist. Hey, Lucas & Co! I'm serious! http://www.livejournal.com/community/kyp_durron_fic/ - the community for my fiction and all Kyp-related things at LJ. Come and join. We're a friendly bunch of fiends.
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Ars_longa
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
7/27/06 12:18am
Subject:
RE: Rogue Jedi: Kyp Durron Discussion & Story Index -- 2 stories added 12/08/05
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Oh, I forgot. Weaknesses? Dunno. I'd say that they are not going to achieve any amazing Force-related breakdowns or contribute to the philosophy under his direction. They will be way too busy being useful and getting their hands dirty.
A.
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For me Star Wars without Kyp Durron do not exist. Hey, Lucas & Co! I'm serious! http://www.livejournal.com/community/kyp_durron_fic/ - the community for my fiction and all Kyp-related things at LJ. Come and join. We're a friendly bunch of fiends.
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RebelGrrl
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
7/27/06 9:13am
Subject:
RE: Rogue Jedi: Kyp Durron Discussion & Story Index -- 2 stories added 12/08/05
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PRINCESSCAMBRIA posted:
So my question is...If Kyp somehow became the GrandMaster, how do you think he would change things? Jedi wise, politically? What would be his strengths and weaknesses?
I am in basic agreement with Ars' thoughs on the matter. The FIRST thing Grand Master Durron would do would be to tell Cal Omas to go get stuffed... in polite, diplomatic terms. Both he and Mara Jade-Skywalker were against hitching the Jedi wagon to the GFFA, the one thing they've ever both been in total agreement on as far as I can see. Isn't that scary?
That separation of Jedi and State would require 1. a source of financing and 2. likely an agreement to submit under the same law as citizens of the GFFA, unless the Order were rehomed to a non-GFFA star system. The Jedi aren't above the law now, really, but when acting for the government, there are certain benefits and lassitudes. That would be removed. The burden would fall onto Kyp to make sure the Order understood that, and that engaging in any vigilante actions such as his own, should there be objections, he might not be able to protect them from the legal consequences of. And you can bet that as upset as Omas would be, he would interfere all he could in financing and legal matters to try to bring the Jedi back to heel under him.
There are systems that would be happy to host/donate, but the profic authors ignore them. Zeltros, for one. Zeltros is a rich world that has never been successfully invaded (there are reasons!) and apparently the Vong didn't get to it. I'm sure there are other friendly systems that Durron could make headway with.
In changing things on the Jedi aspect, Kyp is a man of action. I think he would lead the Order in a way that reflects that, taking direct, but not blind, action against threats rather than sitting back. Listening for the will of the Force would be emphasized. I do not think he'd change much of the training program, but it would definitely be a more 'active' Order.
His weakness would be in dealing with the more meditative aspects of the Order. He would have to learn to temper action a bit with contemplation, because both are part of being Jedi. Some have talents that lend themselves to going out and getting dirty hands, and some don't. His challenge would be in recognizing that and assigning accordingly, and having patience with those of a more contemplative talent.
PRINCESSCAMBRIA posted:
I'm just in the middle of reading "Outbound Flight". Very intriguing. I think in theory it was a good idea, but of course this is Star Wars and nothing goes as planned.
I have to confess that I couldn't finish "Outbound Flight". Sometimes Zahn can be a little much. I forced myself through his other books because they related so directly to things I wanted to know. I do know something went horribly wrong on that mission from reading "Survivor's Quest", I'm just not curious enough to find out what yet.
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iamobiwan1970
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
7/27/06 5:58pm
Subject:
RE: Rogue Jedi: Kyp Durron Discussion & Story Index -- 2 stories added 12/08/05
- Date Edited:
7/27/06 6:00pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
iamobiwan1970
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RebelGrrl posted:
[quote=PRINCESSCAMBRIA]So my question is...If Kyp somehow became the GrandMaster, how do you think he would change things? Jedi wise, politically? What would be his strengths and weaknesses?
I am in basic agreement with Ars' thoughs on the matter. The FIRST thing Grand Master Durron would do would be to tell Cal Omas to go get stuffed... in polite, diplomatic terms. Both he and Mara Jade-Skywalker were against hitching the Jedi wagon to the GFFA, the one thing they've ever both been in total agreement on as far as I can see. Isn't that scary?
I agree with what I quoted above and I thought it was funny that Kyp and Mara actually agreed on something. But in Betrayal everyone is following Luke's lead and Luke is much too involved with the GA government I think. I think this may be a set up plot point that Luke is tying the order too close to the gov. just as in the OJO. He is also very "do as I say...I am the GrandMaster" (in DNT)
If Kyp ran the order he would be more democratic and not tied to gov. However, that would create a huge issue in terms of protection for their actions. Even in VP Kyp's actions were protected by his being a Jedi. They were sometimes described as vigilante, but there was never an arrest warrant becasue they knew he was Jedi (even if Luke didn't agree with everything he did he didn't ask him to stop). The gov. complained, but didn't try to stop him either.
If the Jedi were not tied to the government and had to follow the rules of the GA like everyone else how could they perform certain functions? I don't know. Their roles in the universe are definately difficult to pin down and like someone said, it is probably best if they train and work with non-Force sensitives. That would give them authority and not create vigilantism.
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Ars_longa
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
7/27/06 6:44pm
Subject:
RE: Rogue Jedi: Kyp Durron Discussion & Story Index -- 2 stories added 12/08/05
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They were sometimes described as vigilante, but there was never an arrest warrant becasue they knew he was Jedi
What the heck they could have arrested him for?
A.
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For me Star Wars without Kyp Durron do not exist. Hey, Lucas & Co! I'm serious! http://www.livejournal.com/community/kyp_durron_fic/ - the community for my fiction and all Kyp-related things at LJ. Come and join. We're a friendly bunch of fiends.
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Ars_longa
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
8/6/06 12:08am
Subject:
RE: Rogue Jedi: Kyp Durron Discussion & Story Index -- 2 stories added 12/08/05
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For those of you who don't visit my community on LJ or don't do that regularly...
There is some very good discussions going on and a pretty goof fic posted. Both are also unsuited for this board, so beware. The link is in my signature.
A.
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For me Star Wars without Kyp Durron do not exist. Hey, Lucas & Co! I'm serious! http://www.livejournal.com/community/kyp_durron_fic/ - the community for my fiction and all Kyp-related things at LJ. Come and join. We're a friendly bunch of fiends.
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Ars_longa
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
8/22/06 8:30pm
Subject:
RE: Rogue Jedi: Kyp Durron Discussion & Story Index -- 2 stories added 12/08/05
- Date Edited:
8/23/06 4:16am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
VaderLVR64
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For me Star Wars without Kyp Durron do not exist. Hey, Lucas & Co! I'm serious! http://www.livejournal.com/community/kyp_durron_fic/ - the community for my fiction and all Kyp-related things at LJ. Come and join. We're a friendly bunch of fiends.
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Lola64
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
8/23/06 9:46am
Subject:
RE: Rogue Jedi: Kyp Durron Discussion & Story Index -- 2 stories added 12/08/05
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Ars_longa posted:
They were sometimes described as vigilante, but there was never an arrest warrant becasue they knew he was Jedi
What the heck they could have arrested him for?
A.
I may be wrong but I would think she was referring to his Dozen and Two Avengers. They were not assigned to deal with the smugglers on the outer part of the galaxy. They took that job on themselves. And to attack, which I'm sure they did, the bands of outlaws without provocation they too were technically commiting ilegal acts.
I bet you the Borrsk Feyla was too afraid of Kyp to send someone out there to try and stop him.
As for Kyp being the Grandmaster, now that he 'gets it' about the Jedi I think he'd be great at it. He'll probably sever ties, but not completely, with the G.F.F.A. The Jedi can't be too involved in influencing the governmental leader, but also they can't remove the voice of reason from a body of beings that get so lost in their own agendas they can't see the bigger picture.
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Ars_longa
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
8/23/06 1:50pm
Subject:
RE: Rogue Jedi: Kyp Durron Discussion & Story Index -- 2 stories added 12/08/05
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Lola64 posted:
Ars_longa posted:
They were sometimes described as vigilante, but there was never an arrest warrant becasue they knew he was Jedi
What the heck they could have arrested him for?
A.
I may be wrong but I would think she was referring to his Dozen and Two Avengers. They were not assigned to deal with the smugglers on the outer part of the galaxy. They took that job on themselves. And to attack, which I'm sure they did, the bands of outlaws without provocation they too were technically commiting ilegal acts.
That's interesting. I hope you know that the rules of US are hardly applicable for the remote parts of the Outer Rim of SW Universe? Where bounty hunting, for example, is a legal occupation...
In any case, there is nothing at all about Kyp's actions being against the law. I don't remember even the outraged senators mentioning anything along the line. (shrugs) If the authorized structures aren't doing a squat, then someone is going to fill the void.
I bet you the Borrsk Feyla was too afraid of Kyp to send someone out there to try and stop him.
I don't think Fey'lia was all that concerned about Kyp's activities at that point.
As for Kyp being the Grandmaster, now that he 'gets it' about the Jedi I think he'd be great at it. He'll probably sever ties, but not completely, with the G.F.F.A. The Jedi can't be too involved in influencing the governmental leader, but also they can't remove the voice of reason from a body of beings that get so lost in their own agendas they can't see the bigger picture.
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For me Star Wars without Kyp Durron do not exist. Hey, Lucas & Co! I'm serious! http://www.livejournal.com/community/kyp_durron_fic/ - the community for my fiction and all Kyp-related things at LJ. Come and join. We're a friendly bunch of fiends.
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sonnymyson
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
8/26/06 6:53pm
Subject:
RE: Rogue Jedi: Kyp Durron Discussion & Story Index -- 2 stories added 12/08/05
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I agree, Kyp would make an excellent GrandMaster. That is all.
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PRINCESSCAMBRIA
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
9/1/06 10:32pm
Subject:
RE: Rogue Jedi: Kyp Durron Discussion & Story Index -- 2 stories added 12/08/05
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Question...
So now that Betrayal and Bloodlines are out, would someone like to take a guess as to where and what Kyp has been doing since DN? LOTF takes place about 5 years post DN. That's a lot of time to ponder.
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SakuraTsukikage
Registered:
Oct '05
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Date Posted:
9/10/06 11:40pm
Subject:
RE: Rogue Jedi: Kyp Durron Discussion & Story Index -- 2 stories added 12/08/05
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I really don't have a clue about that topic (especially since I haven't started reading Legacy yet, and I'm totally spoiler-free  ). Still, I'm glad to be back, and there have certainly been some interesting discussions in my absence! Wow!
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Lola64
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
9/11/06 5:03am
Subject:
RE: Rogue Jedi: Kyp Durron Discussion & Story Index -- 2 stories added 12/08/05
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I've been boycotting the series due to the lack of Kyp action. I can't understand how they worked with his character so much in NJO, bringing him, IMO where he could become Luke's successor as the head of the Jedi, only to dismiss his maturing, leaving him back to scruffy and unruly. Although, scruffy sounded kind of appealing to me in DN.
What is he doing? Well, the Corellian conflict may be absorbing most of the Skywalker/Solo/Antilles' time but there's still a galaxy in need of order and an Academy that cannot run itself.
I'm sure Kyp, along with the other dismissed Jedi are out on various missions until the Jacen the Sith becomes too much of a problem that Luke can't deal with him alone.
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