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Topic:
The Enigmatic and Mysterious Count Dooku - Challenges posted 11/06/07 - any takers?
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Alexis_Wingstar
Registered:
Sep '06
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Date Posted:
9/28 8:05pm
Subject:
RE: The Enigmatic and Mysterious Count Dooku - Challenges posted 11/06/07 - any takers?
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Yeah, I thought it was Dooku, too until I saw that on Wookiee.
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"Change. It can be good. It can be bad. It can be expected or come as a thief in the night. Invited or not, it always comes." ~Koria "Tender Shadows", co-written w/ The Musical Jedi "Two Peas Out of the Pod" http://www.nanowrimo.org/eng/user/205643
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Persephone_Kore
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
10/4 9:53pm
Subject:
RE: The Enigmatic and Mysterious Count Dooku - Challenges posted 11/06/07 - any takers?
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I did gather that Sifo-Dyas had an independent existence from AotC, since the conversation among Obi-Wan, Mace, and Yoda mentioned that he had died. It was entirely plausible at that point that Dooku had placed the order under his name... or that Sidious had, I suppose, since IIRC Sifo-Dyas was at some point in the script drafts supposed to be Sido-Dyas and merely an alias for Sidious.
I don't think Dooku was planning to leave the Jedi prior to Qui-Gon's death. If he was, he almost certainly wasn't planning to become a Sith. It is established that he was becoming more frustrated and disillusioned, but part of what threw the Jedi off the scent was that much of what he was saying after he left was the same stuff he'd been outspoken about before--it wasn't purely blindness to the obvious, as his image was consistent with what he'd argued with them about in the past--but he was doing (and hiding his involvement in) a lot of things that he'd previously sincerely opposed.
I think Stewart did a particularly good job with the whole "I'll break my own arm" incident in YDR; he doesn't explain the parallel half a dozen times the way some authors probably would, but you can just see some part of Dooku's subconscious responding to Sidious's recruitment attempts by thinking in the direction of the Jedi Council, "You want me to compromise with politicians? Sure, I'll show you what happens...."
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ardavenport
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
10/6 7:46pm
Subject:
RE: The Enigmatic and Mysterious Count Dooku - Challenges posted 11/06/07 - any takers?
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I'm inclined to think that Dooku was unhappy with the whole Republic long before he considered leaving the Jedi Order. And that he did not decide to leave the Order until he had joined Sidious.
Sidious was under the Jedis' noses for years without them knowing; he easily could have taught Dooku how to do that. And someone had to be on the inside to change the Archive records about Kamino. I don't think Sifo Dyas would have done that; he was killed before he could tell people what to do.
Dooku has been in the last 2 episodes of the Clone Wars cartoon, but so far he's just doing the bad guy thing. I hope the devote a little time to some motives for Dooku about why he became a Sith.
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Persephone_Kore
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
10/7 11:16am
Subject:
RE: The Enigmatic and Mysterious Count Dooku - Challenges posted 11/06/07 - any takers?
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I'm not claiming he left the instant Qui-Gon died. His dissatisfaction with the Republic--or more specifically with the way he considered its government to be failing both the ideals it claimed and those it ought to have, and with the effects of working with it on the Jedi--would have to have been growing for a while, and I would guess that Sidious as Palpatine might have been cultivating him for some time if he had the opportunity. The desire to cut through the bureaucracy and corruption and Fix Things would probably have been a profitable angle for establishing a relationship and stoking Dooku's discontent. But I don't think Sidious revealed himself to Dooku or recruited him as a Sith until after Maul's death, and I rather suspect Qui-Gon's death was one of the proverbial last straws in his... state of mind. (Not that this would offhand seem to make the Sith more appealing, but my personal theories include some vengefulness, and Sidious's recruitment strategies do not seem to be notably interfered with by having their targets know he's been destroying who and what they care about.) So he was temporarily both officially a Jedi and really a Sith, but I don't believe it was for as long a period of time as you seem to prefer.
My original preferred theory was that his fall was after his departure from the Order was after TPM, but sometimes story ideas generated using EU material work better if I use something closer to the official ordering, which (as I understand it) is laid out in Labyrinth of Evil with Dooku's first conversation with Sidious-as-Sidious occuring after TPM, and his joining the Sith and leaving the Jedi both occurring before Sifo-Dyas even placed the order at Kamino.
On the other hand, I've also written scenes assuming a timeline where he was still officially a Jedi when he killed Sifo-Dyas, and personally reported the death with circumstances to account for the missing body. (He, er, kept it for several years. With usable blood, which could suggest that up to a point Sifo-Dyas might have been revivable.) Presumably the other order would still allow for him to call them with news of the tragedy, say, or to plant evidence on the subject.
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ardavenport
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
10/7 8:09pm
Subject:
RE: The Enigmatic and Mysterious Count Dooku - Challenges posted 11/06/07 - any takers?
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I agree that Sidious's best lure for joining the dark side is the promise of making everything right in the galaxy. That's what he used with Anakin. And I agree that Sidious likely did not reveal himself to Dooku until after Maul, when he was looking for a new apprentice.
Before they found out he was a Sith, the Jedi Council thought that Dooku was a 'political idealist'. So, he must have expressed political views before leaving the order. He might have even given them as his reason for leaving.
I'm kind of glad that I haven't read the EU back story about Dooku keeping Sipho Dyas's body on ice. The whole blood thing seems a bit creepy for Dooku. Perhaps they were thinking of Christopher Lee?
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Persephone_Kore
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
10/8 1:17pm
Subject:
RE: The Enigmatic and Mysterious Count Dooku - Challenges posted 11/06/07 - any takers?
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Ah, just for clarification, Dooku did not drink Sifo-Dyas's blood. He used it on Grievous to improve the healing process. Supposedly, while they don't stick around, an infusion of blood with extra midi-chlorians is supposed to be beneficial. (This makes me wonder whether Jedi, or at least people who tested at or near Jedi-eligibility levels and are currently in a less physically demanding career, get a whole lot of invitations to blood drives.) The logic of a cross-species blood transfusion is more than slightly strained, but hardly the silliest thing Star Wars has going (and I say this with the utmost affection).
Not, mind you, that the whole thing isn't still pretty creepy. Freezing Sifo-Dyas's body and keeping it around on Serenno is actually nowhere near as disturbing as what he does to Grievous, although it may be weirder.
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ardavenport
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
10/8 5:29pm
Subject:
RE: The Enigmatic and Mysterious Count Dooku - Challenges posted 11/06/07 - any takers?
- Date Edited:
10/8 5:30pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
ardavenport
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I wonder if Dooku was trying to impart some Force ability to Grievous with the blood, since he was training him in the 'Jedi arts'. It does sound a bit silly. And, I think, unsuccessful. Kenobi didn't seem to have much trouble 'disarming' Grievous. 
If blood transfusion were a reliable way to transfer Force ability then the Jedi would have a problem with people trying to 'steal' their abilities. Perhaps the blood stuff is a Sith thing? That does sound like the sort of thing that Sidious might encourage.
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Links to all fics -- http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=25405090&brd=10304&start=26223917 The Heart of the Jedi -- http://boards.theforce.net/b/b1/26013327 ---- Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, JA and everything you wanted to know about lightsabers
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Persephone_Kore
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
10/9 9:15am
Subject:
RE: The Enigmatic and Mysterious Count Dooku - Challenges posted 11/06/07 - any takers?
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I think there was some confusion over that, possibly among both authors and characters.  As far as I know, the current version is that they were testing to see if they could give Grievous Force abilities, but didn't really expect it to work. They did expect it to help with healing, and apparently this was also confirmed.
Of course, it occurs to me that one might speculate about the tendency of the Force to respond to one's expectations ("I don't believe it!" "And that is why you fail.") and wonder to what extent Dooku deliberately or even subconsciously messed with the results.
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hyperspace_police
Title: FanForce CR
Arkansas US
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
10/9 5:31pm
Subject:
RE: The Enigmatic and Mysterious Count Dooku - Challenges posted 11/06/07 - any takers?
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Wow... That's some really freaky EU back-story action... I had never heard the bit about the blood thing... Though, with Christopher Lee playing Dooku... well, double the eerie... Oh well...
It would be interesting to see them go into the Dooku story a bit more with The Clone Wars cartoon, but I doubt that we'll see anything like that. I figure it's going to be more Obi-Wan/Anakin/Ahsoka(SP?)/Grevious/BattleDroid heavy, but it never hurts to hope...
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LLL
Title: TFN Fan Fiction Archive Editor
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
10/14 5:06pm
Subject:
RE: The Enigmatic and Mysterious Count Dooku - Challenges posted 11/06/07 - any takers?
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OMG.
These EU people. Haven't they ever heard of BLOOD BANKING??
Freezing a corpse for several years in order to keep the blood sounds like the most cumbersome, inefficient, and possibly nonworkable way to do it I ever heard of.
Don't these folks do any research?
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ardavenport
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
10/14 6:27pm
Subject:
RE: The Enigmatic and Mysterious Count Dooku - Challenges posted 11/06/07 - any takers?
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I think that maybe that whole frozen corpse thing was put in there for the horror and the drama factor. I suppose. And maybe the writer was thinking 'Christopher Lee' and not 'Dooku'. Maybe they were thinking of doing more than just blood and using body parts, too, but never got around to it.
When they put in details like that, it looks like they're hand-waving the medical reasons.......which you can do a lot in the GFFA.
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Knight_Terje
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
10/17 10:42am
Subject:
RE: The Enigmatic and Mysterious Count Dooku - Challenges posted 11/06/07 - any takers?
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The blood bit is all new to me as well.  Don't recall that tidbit.
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LLL
Title: TFN Fan Fiction Archive Editor
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
10/18 9:40pm
Subject:
RE: The Enigmatic and Mysterious Count Dooku - Challenges posted 11/06/07 - any takers?
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I just can't buy that kind of thing. 
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